Bill Martinez Live
Sept. 10, 2026

The Bill Martinez Show 09 10 26

The Bill Martinez Show 09 10 26
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The Bill Martinez Show 09 10 26
Transcript
WEBVTT

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Are you ready?

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Yeah.

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Okay, let's do it.

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Bill Martinez Live, a program about current events, our culture,

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our values, our politics, and our future.

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And now, Bill Martinez. Hey, good morning, America. Glad you

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could join us about six minutes after the top of

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the hour right now. I'm Bill Martinez. He's Mike O'Neill

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from Landmark Legal. Hey, Mike, how you doing?

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I'm good, Bill. Good to be with you.

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Well, always good to be talking with you and catching

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up on everything that is our world and our culture.

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Yes.

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You know, you and I have, you know, minimally have

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discussed the Clancy case.

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Yeah, very minimally.

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I mean, for lots of reasons.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's tough all the way around. And, you know,

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for the jury, what they had to go through and that,

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you know, quite amazing. But here it is. It came

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down to one person who held to his beliefs.

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Right.

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And now we're starting to hear more about what happened

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back in that jury room, huh?

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Yeah, I mean, a couple of things, and I wasn't

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following the day-to-day, you know, you and I work, we work,

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we don't have time to get into the minutiae details

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of it. I'd love to be paid to be an

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analyst on this, that would be fun, but we weren't.

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But paying attention now, kind of tuning into what's been

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happening after the fact has been kind of illuminating for everyone.

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First of all, I think, as you said, you know,

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it necessitates stating that It was a tragedy. It was

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a horrible, horrible situation. You had a woman here who

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was suffering from something who killed her three children. And

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I just keep going back to these young three beautiful

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children who were killed and how awful and terrible this

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situation is. That being said, I think now what you're

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seeing post-trial has been problematic at the least. First of all,

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I want to comment on what her defense attorney said post-trial.

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Now we all know that it was a mistrial. You

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had 12 jurors in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. 11 of

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them would have held that Ms. Clancy or Mrs. Clancy

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was not guilty by reason of insanity. They use a

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little different terminology up in Massachusetts, but for our purposes, insanity,

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that she was suffering from some sort of post-birth psychosis.

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Yeah, postpartum depression.

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Yeah, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, and that she was in

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her right frame of mind. Again, 11 jurors would have

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held her not guilty under that rationale. One juror held out.

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I think I would have, just from looking at it,

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I kind of empathize immediately with the juror who was

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holding out. I said she did it. Normally, it's a

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high burden to meet the burden of insanity. That's an

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affirmative defense. In other jurisdictions, the burden is on the

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defendant who's asserting the insanity defense to prove that. that

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they were insane or they lacked the capacity to determine

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right from wrong when that action was occurring. In Massachusetts,

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it's kind of backwards. In Massachusetts, once you assert that defense,

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then the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt

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that you weren't insane. And when you think about it,

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that's a really heavy burden on the prosecution. So you're

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operating with one hand tied behind your back from that regard. Also,

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regarding the jury, the fact that the defense attorney was

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criticizing the juror for holding fast to his beliefs. Now

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we know it was a man. There was nine women,

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three men, and this one juror, this male juror, was

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held fast to his beliefs that she was guilty.

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I got to tell you, I'm surprised, frankly. I thought

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it would have been a woman.

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Really?

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I mean, I don't know. For me, I just would

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have thought instinct just in terms of... And I understand

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a lot of sympathy for women and dealing with that side.

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But the idea that you killed three of your kids

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and the manner in which she murdered them was pretty severe.

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And I thought, okay, well, maybe. But I don't know.

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I was just a little bit... That's just me. It

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was just my evaluation of it.

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I can see from that point of view. I think what...

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The one thing I want to say about her defense

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attorney who came out and was criticizing this man, he

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really crossed the line here. And he should know better

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as a trial attorney that the jurors are separate and apart.

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You don't come out after the fact and criticize individual

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jurors and give facts out there that would enable people

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to identify who those jurors were. It's just not done.

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You want to preserve the sanctity of the jury system.

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Because you want people to be able to serve on juries,

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ideally go into the trial as objective as possible without

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any preconceptions or preconceived notions, and be able to present

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and analyze the facts as presented to them by the attorneys,

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by the prosecution, and by the defense throughout the trial process.

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And you don't want attorneys criticizing individual jurors after the fact.

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And you certainly don't want people to pigpile on somebody

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that disagrees. With his position. And so then what do

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you do for juries going forward, going, look at, you know,

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I don't want to participate. I don't want to take

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the risk of putting my family in danger or me

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in danger because I didn't go along with the crowd

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or something.

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And I have to risk that some angry defense attorney

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or prosecutorial, some angry attorney after the fact is going

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to identify me and then make me a target. That's

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where it crosses the line. Again, he should know better

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than this. I really think from my perspective that when

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I was listening to him talk, I was watching when

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the judge announced the mistrial. And they had the cameras

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focused on the defense attorney. And you could see him raging.

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You could see, you could just see him, the ire

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was just burning off of him. So you knew he

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was angry. And obviously after, when he came out and

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was on the courthouse steps giving the interviews, he was

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clearly very angry. And I can, I guess I can

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understand that he invested tons of time.

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Well, he was passionate even in his closing as well,

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you know, and that's where I thought he may have

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lost it because, and where the prosecution I thought did

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a better job in presenting their case because they were,

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they were reasonable. They were calm. He was very emotive.

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And when you get that emotive, It's like you run

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the risk of really alienating people, in my humble opinion.

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He did.

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But I think generally speaking, that's how it is in

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a trial, right? The prosecution is the straightforward, just the facts.

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And then the defense will present the emotions. We'll play

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on the emotions. We'll get to that in a second.

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But the problem, it's interesting in this, in that so

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often the unanimity factor of a jury is paramount, right?

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And if you have, and that normally is a, is a,

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is a, is good for a defense attorney, right? Think

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about the 12 angry men. All you have to do

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is create reasonable doubt with one juror and you can

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get a mistrial. And that's oftentimes what you shoot for.

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But in this case, it was funny that you have

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a defense attorney actually criticizing the unanimity and criticizing the

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one juror standing on his principles. Because defense attorney, we

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all want jurors to stand on their principles generally, but

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defense attorneys particularly would say, criminal defense attorneys, you want

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the one juror to be able to hold out against

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because so oftentimes it's the other way around. It's everybody's

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pushing for the guilty verdict and there's one or two

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people that's standing out. No, you haven't met the reasonable doubt.

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But again, here, it's kind of all got flipped on

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its head because in Massachusetts, you have this whole insanity defense.

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The reasonable doubt is on the prosecution to prove that

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the person wasn't crazy beyond reasonable. So it's kind of

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an odd situation. All that being said, I think what

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your problem here is on the jurors, you're getting some

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interviews from some of the female jurors who were sitting,

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who were in panel here. And what's coming out is

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a couple of problematic things as well, is the fact

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that they were considering evidence that wasn't necessarily presented to

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them in trial. I think some of them had some

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nursing experience and were able to talk about the effects

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of medicine on the mental state of the defendant. and

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they were bringing in facts that weren't introduced in evidence,

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that weren't presented via an expert. Normally in these trials,

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what you have is you have expert witnesses will present

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how does a given medicine affect a person, right? If

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you're a postpartum and you're taking such and such medicine,

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how does that affect it? Or how can that affect them?

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And the jurors are obligated to take that and weigh

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the veracity of the expert witness versus another expert witness

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and say, who's more likely to be telling the truth?

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And that's how they're supposed to deliberate it. They shouldn't

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be considering facts or opinions from other people. And I

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think that that was probably one of the problems here

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that's indicated from one of these jurors that they were considering,

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nurses were saying, well, it's not necessarily that.

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No, no, no.

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You can't consider evidence outside of that's presented to you

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in trial. And I think that's the problem here. One

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other interesting thing from the jurors that are giving these

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interviews is that they were talking about the lack of

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compassion that was on display. And this kind of gets

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back to what we were talking about before, the lack

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of compassion on display from the prosecutors.

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Okay.

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So, and they were saying right from the get-go, they

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weren't demonstrating the requisite compassion for Ms. Clancy.

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Yeah.

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Mike, hang on one second. We got to go to

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quick break. Let's pick it up on the other side.

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We got more from Mike O'Neill after this. Stay with us.

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Hey, we're back with you.

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Bill Martinez here with Landmark Legal's Mike O'Neill, and we're reviewing...

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the Clancy case and getting us, giving us a perspective,

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you know, a legal perspective on this. And I appreciate, Mike,

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how you're presenting this because there's good balance here to

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help us understand because, you know, many people are still,

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you know, a bit shocked with the result here.

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Yeah.

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And it is shocking. I mean, it's shocking. But then

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when you begin to unwind it and unravel it, you

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see that it's not really that shocking. What the jurors

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were talking about, interestingly, is that they were saying that

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from the get-go, the prosecution wasn't showing the requisite compassion

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for Mrs. Clancy or Ms. Clancy, the accused. I go, hey, look,

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I see how the prosecution's operating. Their compassion is for

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the three dead victims and the family, the three little children,

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beautiful children who were allegedly killed by their mother, murdered

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by their mother. That's where my compassion goes. But the

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jurors were saying, well, the prosecution wasn't showing compassion for

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the accused. If you're the poor prosecutor in this case,

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you're thinking to yourself, wow, I got off right off

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the wrong foot. Right from the get-go, they weren't showing compassion.

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So it sounded like the prosecution's case was tainted right

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from the beginning. And that's kind of a reminder to

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all of us, right, lawyers, et cetera, that these first impressions,

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the first five minutes, you make your case or you

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don't make your case. The juror will get an impression

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of an attorney or an accused within minutes, right? And

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then they're locked into that. And it takes Herculean efforts

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to move them off of that. So that's problematic, too.

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I think impaneling the jury, I think if the prosecution

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probably had to do it over again, they wouldn't impanel

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the jurors that they had impaneled. There's a lot going

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on about New England white liberals. Howard Pell in this juror.

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So if you want to go down that road, you

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can go down that road and try to get into

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that mind space. But again, this is the prosecutions. They

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00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:45.509
practice in that venue and that jurisdiction. They should know

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their constituencies and should understand the point of view that

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these people are going to be bringing into this case

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at the get-go. That being said, the fact that the

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jury was looking for compassion for the accused from the get-go,

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oh man, that's a tough burden for you to overcome

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if you're a prosecutor. So I certainly feel for the prosecutors.

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00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:07.509
Right, exactly. Well, you know, we're going to hear more

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about this because, you know, I think they're going to

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decide in the next couple of weeks how they do this.

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Because, I mean.

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Even like right now, Mike, I mean, what can they

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do if they come back and they work out some

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sort of deal, negotiate some compromise here? I mean, she's

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going to end up having to go into some, I believe,

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in some mental health facility, right? She just can't walk free.

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No, you got to think that that's the case. And

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I mean, and that's, that is some, some folks who

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00:16:36.789 --> 00:16:38.669
practice in this area who are better versed in these

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00:16:38.950 --> 00:16:42.320
areas than I am have said that, look, asserting this

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00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.779
defense isn't a get out of jail free card, right?

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I mean, when you're found not guilty by reason of insanity,

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and let's just stipulate that that's what we're saying. Obviously

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the terminology is a little different in Massachusetts, but you've

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consigned yourself to that You should be– you're sick. You're ill. Again,

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I don't believe that. I think she knew what she

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was– from my limited exposure to the facts here, I

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think she knew what she was doing. Let's be clear.

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She understood what was happening and the problem. She understood

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that it was wrong. She sent her husband out for

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the day. She knew her husband wasn't going to be present,

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et cetera, et cetera. That being said, if there is

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a deal worked out, she should spend significant– I mean,

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in my mind, she should be under observation in prison

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00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:23.950
for the rest of her life. But yeah, there would

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be that if there was some sort of plea deal

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worked out. I would think, though, and again, as I

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understand it, September 20th, there's a status hearing where I

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think some of this might be laid out, is that

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she should be retried in maybe a different venue.

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I mean, I know that's that's one of the other

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concepts as well.

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Maybe a different charge, maybe a second degree, maybe maybe

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00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:46.440
a different maybe a manslaughter charge. But look, this is

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this is a this is a This is, in my mind, particularly,

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this is some of the most heinous crimes you can imagine, right?

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This is a mother committing the most atrocious act on

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her children. It's just awful and heart-wrenching and heartbreaking from

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every perspective. So it cries out for some justice for

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these victims. But again, I think the conduct of her

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00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:10.519
defense attorney has been below, you know, I think from

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all intents and purposes, he did a fine job during

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the trial, but After the fact, I think he let

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his emotions get the better of him and really got

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ahead over his skis and criticizing these jurors.

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00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:23.000
Well, and even to ask Trump for a pardon, which

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he knows darn well.

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00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:25.019
Well, it's just silly because– It's not.

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Going to happen.

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It can't happen.

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I mean, I don't understand what he was thinking with

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that because it's a state law case.

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I mean– Right. Exactly.

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00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:34.250
Again, I want to say that I'm going to give

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deference to him and his expertise in criminal law matters,

364
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but– He.

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00:18:40.190 --> 00:18:41.930
Was emotionally vested.

366
00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:45.529
There's no pardon power for the president there. You got

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00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:46.930
to go to the governor for a pardon.

368
00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:47.069
There, buddy.

369
00:18:47.490 --> 00:18:52.339
Right, exactly. Well, look, a little less than five minutes left, 9-11,

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00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:59.059
25th anniversary coming up. You know, Mamdani, being who Mamdani is,

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you know, what he did for that executive order signing

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and handing the pen off to somebody who was associated

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with a terrorist. It's just unbelievable.

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00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:14.069
I mean, I just, I was saying to my colleague

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yesterday that if you had told me in the weeks

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00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:21.160
after 9-11 that 25 years later, you would have a

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00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.119
guy like Mondami as the mayor of New York City,

378
00:19:25.220 --> 00:19:27.859
my head would have spun around a million times. I said,

379
00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:29.779
there's no way I would have believed that that would

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00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.259
ever be possible. Can we imagine that? And then as

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00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.220
we get further and further of it, you're seeing a

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00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.779
demarcation line in our society, right? You're seeing the people

383
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.839
who understood what America was before 9-11. And then you're

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00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:43.670
seeing the people who've kind of forgotten and moved off that. Look,

385
00:19:44.630 --> 00:19:47.349
we've lost something, right? That day we lost something. We

386
00:19:47.390 --> 00:19:52.359
lost something. We lost, obviously, we lost 3,000 American, innocent Americans.

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00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.039
And we all who lived through it saw those Americans

388
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.700
and those brave men and women, you know, jumping from

389
00:19:58.059 --> 00:20:02.940
those towers, the Pentagon. Barbara Olson, who was affiliated with...

390
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.339
who we knew in the conservative legal movement back then,

391
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.349
died on 9-11 at the Pentagon. It was just a terrible,

392
00:20:08.450 --> 00:20:11.509
awful day. And we remember it. But you've seen this.

393
00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:16.190
Our society has changed so markedly in these 25 years, right? Now, again,

394
00:20:16.289 --> 00:20:18.619
I think it's, I got to put some blame on

395
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.880
President Bush after 9-11. He opened it up. There was

396
00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:26.160
a lot of, you know, hey, look, this is a

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00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:27.960
religion of peace. These are people who don't want to

398
00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:31.529
hurt us. I mean, look, 25 years has kind of

399
00:20:31.569 --> 00:20:34.519
shown us the folly of some of those beliefs. Obviously,

400
00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:36.390
Obama and Biden ran with it.

401
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:37.119
Yes.

402
00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:40.799
I give some credit to Bush for keeping us safe

403
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.839
after 9-11. But there's a lot of debate about FISA,

404
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.099
the ability of.

405
00:20:46.099 --> 00:20:51.029
The domestic- Of course, the Patriot Act and all that. Exactly, right.

406
00:20:51.329 --> 00:20:53.049
I mean, we didn't have another major attack on the

407
00:20:53.069 --> 00:20:55.670
United States. So yes, that was a success. But I

408
00:20:55.730 --> 00:20:58.170
mean- The ways, particularly, again, I go back to the

409
00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:02.779
immigration things. And again, it was really, it was kind of,

410
00:21:03.190 --> 00:21:05.569
the door was a little bit opened after Bush and

411
00:21:05.589 --> 00:21:08.269
then Biden and Obama just wrecked it.

412
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:11.539
Well, especially Obama, because Obama, I mean, people said, well,

413
00:21:11.579 --> 00:21:13.880
he's a Christian. Well, I don't know, but is he

414
00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:16.519
a Christian? Is he Muslim? But look what he did.

415
00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.859
I mean, how he favored, you know, and then of course, then,

416
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:21.960
you know, people need to see what's happening in New

417
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.390
York is that you have this accumulation of of Muslim

418
00:21:26.490 --> 00:21:30.349
interests in a particular area and they elect the mayor,

419
00:21:30.369 --> 00:21:33.049
which is the same thing that happened in Britain, right?

420
00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:33.890
In England.

421
00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:38.410
So here, and same thing is happening in Minneapolis. And

422
00:21:38.710 --> 00:21:43.549
not only Minneapolis, here you got 82,000 Somalis that leverage

423
00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:47.609
their voting power in that to control the entire state, Mike.

424
00:21:48.430 --> 00:21:49.789
I mean, this is like, this.

425
00:21:50.309 --> 00:21:51.369
Is where people need to wake up.

426
00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:53.059
And then what a company is that?

427
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.299
I mean, at a level, I mean, at, On the surface,

428
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.220
it's fraud everywhere. I mean, you see just endemic fraud

429
00:21:59.259 --> 00:22:03.200
and because there's just no acknowledgement of that. It's the

430
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.630
viewing of the American taxpayer is just an ATM. You're

431
00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:07.750
just going to come in and take advantage of all

432
00:22:07.809 --> 00:22:12.009
our high trust society institutions that we have, that everything's

433
00:22:12.049 --> 00:22:14.430
based on trust in our society. And that's what's made.

434
00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:17.150
That's part of what's made America great over 250 years

435
00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:19.059
is the fact that we have a degree. We live

436
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.019
in a high trust society and that when you bring

437
00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:24.920
in folks who don't share that value and and just

438
00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:28.349
look at opportunities to commit fraud, then this is what

439
00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:30.890
you see. You see trillions of dollars. And again, we're

440
00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:35.059
facing a $ 40 trillion debt. We're facing budget deficits in

441
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.720
hundreds of billions of dollars annually. And you say, well,

442
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.480
let's start with the low-hanging fruit. Well, hey, let's not

443
00:22:41.539 --> 00:22:44.200
allow people to come into the country who rip off

444
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.779
the American taxpayer to tens of billions of dollars.

445
00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:51.160
It's all encompassing, not only that, but other nations, people

446
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:55.160
that we believed were allies, and they've been taking full

447
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:02.099
advantage of us, including Canada. Everybody's up in arms about this. Trump,

448
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.319
to his credit, is leveling out the playing field. And

449
00:23:04.339 --> 00:23:07.140
this is all part and parcel of what you're talking about.

450
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:08.960
We've got 30 seconds left. Go ahead. I'll let you

451
00:23:09.009 --> 00:23:09.369
wrap it up.

452
00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:12.549
So I think as we approach 9-11, let's not lose

453
00:23:12.589 --> 00:23:14.569
sight of the fact of what our country, what the

454
00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:17.529
sacrifice of those brave men and women on 9-11. And

455
00:23:17.569 --> 00:23:19.450
we move further and further away from it. But try

456
00:23:19.470 --> 00:23:23.390
to understand that the principles that we held before 9-11

457
00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:25.549
and where we were as a country, we've got to

458
00:23:25.569 --> 00:23:28.049
continue to return to that and understand that we need

459
00:23:28.069 --> 00:23:30.170
to preserve the American way of life. in the face

460
00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:32.039
of all the challenges that we're facing going forward.

461
00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:36.299
Well, he's with Landmark Legal, Mike O'Neill. Mike, thank you.

462
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.089
Appreciate it. A website they can go to real quick

463
00:23:38.109 --> 00:23:38.660
to get caught up.

464
00:23:38.670 --> 00:23:40.130
Landmarklegal.org. You got it.

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And welcome back. Bill Martinez here, along with the Manhattan-based

527
00:27:19.809 --> 00:27:24.029
Fox News contributor and the one and only DeRoy Murdoch. Hey, DeRoy,

528
00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:24.569
how are we doing?

529
00:27:25.349 --> 00:27:25.970
I'm one and only.

530
00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:26.750
Thank you very much, Bill.

531
00:27:27.089 --> 00:27:30.029
Yeah, exactly. You are one and only. No doubt about it.

532
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.940
I tell you, speaking of one and only, what is

533
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.769
going on with your crazy mayor? I know I asked that,

534
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:44.549
and it's almost a rhetorical question. Because you just wonder,

535
00:27:44.849 --> 00:27:46.890
when is this guy? Well, the fact of the matter is,

536
00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:49.750
he is what he is. And I don't know if

537
00:27:49.789 --> 00:27:52.630
you saw this, but I mean, here he's mocking the

538
00:27:52.650 --> 00:27:56.630
9-11 victims. Gary Bauer reported on this when he signed

539
00:27:56.670 --> 00:27:59.150
two executive orders. And of course, you're still on the

540
00:27:59.170 --> 00:28:02.089
West Coast, and this is happening back. You see, when

541
00:28:02.109 --> 00:28:03.750
you're out of town, crazy stuff happens.

542
00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:05.690
How do you get back there and get things to

543
00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:06.170
calm down?

544
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:06.950
Exactly.

545
00:28:06.970 --> 00:28:09.400
I'm like the control rod inside the nuclear reactor. I'm

546
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:10.880
not there, and the thing boils over.

547
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:14.140
Exactly. Well, he signs two executive orders.

548
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:14.680
You ready for this?

549
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.730
Okay, big formal ceremony last week. And one order designated Friday,

550
00:28:19.809 --> 00:28:23.450
September the 11th, 2026, okay, as the day of remembrance

551
00:28:23.609 --> 00:28:27.450
and service, which is interesting, in recognition of the 25th

552
00:28:27.569 --> 00:28:31.470
anniversary of the 9-11 attacks, right? Well, he does the traditional,

553
00:28:31.549 --> 00:28:33.900
you know, when you sign, then you hand the pen

554
00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:36.480
off to, you know, the important people that were somewhere

555
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.799
part of the legislation or the order and all that

556
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:41.380
kind of deal. So he gives it to Commissioner Tisch.

557
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:44.180
But he says, no, but pass it on. It's not

558
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:46.880
for you. Pass it on to the guy next to

559
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:51.700
you who happens to be Ramzi Qasem. All right. Now,

560
00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:55.759
you may not remember that name, but he was the

561
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:58.569
one he's the mayor's chief legal counsel, by the way,

562
00:28:58.609 --> 00:29:05.150
number one. And he was also he also represented Ahmed al-Darby,

563
00:29:05.529 --> 00:29:09.089
an al-Qaeda terrorist. who was once held at Guantanamo Bay.

564
00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:14.410
He also represented Mahmoud Khalil, the radical Islamist on a

565
00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:18.549
foreign student visa who led pro-Hamas demonstrations at Columbia University.

566
00:29:18.950 --> 00:29:24.460
So here it is. For 9-11, he honors this guy

567
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.359
in front of God and everybody. And so what are

568
00:29:26.380 --> 00:29:27.539
you supposed to think about that?

569
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.079
Yeah, look, I mean, you point out that this guy

570
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:33.759
wasn't just some man who happened to be in the

571
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.019
crowd who just got on stage and so happened to

572
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.849
be there. This is I guess the big original sin

573
00:29:38.869 --> 00:29:40.779
was not what happened with the pen being handed to

574
00:29:40.819 --> 00:29:43.559
him after this September 11th ceremony, but this is the

575
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:47.200
guy who Mamdani picked as basically the, you know, chief

576
00:29:47.259 --> 00:29:50.700
counsel for city hall is his attorney. So that was

577
00:29:50.740 --> 00:29:53.579
the big error, if you will, the big offense that

578
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:56.119
took place back then. And, you know, everyone's entitled to

579
00:29:56.180 --> 00:29:59.180
have an attorney, I suppose, but I think you want

580
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.809
to be careful about who it is you pick. You

581
00:30:00.829 --> 00:30:02.789
don't pick just any attorney. You pick somebody who you

582
00:30:02.829 --> 00:30:06.410
hope is somebody decent who people can admire whether they

583
00:30:06.430 --> 00:30:08.089
agree with him or not. And you go out and

584
00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:10.299
pick a guy who represented not one but two different

585
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.279
Islamic extremists. And certainly to have something like that at

586
00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:17.079
an event tied to September 11th, you'd think somebody somewhere

587
00:30:17.099 --> 00:30:19.640
would have a sense of political sensitivity and think, you know,

588
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:22.430
this is not the best look. Maybe invite a different

589
00:30:22.470 --> 00:30:24.690
lawyer or maybe tell that guy, go take the day

590
00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:26.690
off or tell the guy, why don't you find some

591
00:30:26.710 --> 00:30:27.730
terrorists and throw them in jail?

592
00:30:28.589 --> 00:30:30.859
Either that or go meet me at my office and

593
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:32.460
I'll put the pen in my pocket and I'll give

594
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:33.000
it to you later.

595
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:35.859
Yeah, if you're going to do that, slip it to

596
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.619
them at 10 o'clock at night over a drink someplace

597
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:40.920
or something like this. But what this has done is

598
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:43.940
it's just created a huge black eye. I think the

599
00:30:44.049 --> 00:30:46.470
black eye is maybe felt in two ways. One is

600
00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:51.130
that the people whose loved ones were killed and murdered

601
00:30:51.170 --> 00:30:53.430
at the World Trade Center and also the Pentagon and

602
00:30:53.470 --> 00:30:55.890
elsewhere feel that they've got black eyes. And I think

603
00:30:55.910 --> 00:30:59.269
it's turned also a big black eye for– uh miramadami

604
00:30:59.329 --> 00:31:01.509
who's now got this to deal with what just a

605
00:31:01.529 --> 00:31:04.529
couple days before the 25th anniversary of that uh that

606
00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:08.430
massive atrocity so it's just created another uh headache for

607
00:31:08.470 --> 00:31:10.710
him another headache for the people who's who should be

608
00:31:10.750 --> 00:31:13.910
right now and are in fact mourning their loved ones

609
00:31:13.930 --> 00:31:16.750
who are now dead and not with them uh in

610
00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.650
2977 of them to be precise and and then it's

611
00:31:19.690 --> 00:31:22.710
created one more controversy in which he finds himself totally

612
00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:27.089
stuck so this is a complete uh self-imposed error and

613
00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:28.589
something he should have avoided. And if he had any

614
00:31:28.630 --> 00:31:31.009
sense of sensitivity about this, I think he would have.

615
00:31:31.029 --> 00:31:33.309
But my guess is he looks at somebody who represented

616
00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:35.690
members of Al-Qaeda and all that, that doesn't think there's

617
00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:41.410
anything unusual or wrong or something that ought to induce

618
00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:42.490
any sense of caution about this.

619
00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:44.750
Well, and he doesn't even care. I mean, he says, well,

620
00:31:44.769 --> 00:31:47.609
I'm still going to go to the memorial, the 25th

621
00:31:47.650 --> 00:31:51.299
anniversary at 9-11. And there's already been 100,000 plus signatures

622
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:55.680
in on a petition telling him to stay away. They

623
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.380
want nothing to do with him. I mean, and of course,

624
00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:00.599
this is on the heels of last year when he

625
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:03.200
told the New York Times that 9-11 was a difficult

626
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:05.480
day for New York City Muslims, too.

627
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.380
Yeah, I'm sure that a tough day. Well, you know,

628
00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:09.920
there are a lot of people had a very, very

629
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:13.009
tough day. It's a tough day for everybody. But, you know, again,

630
00:32:13.029 --> 00:32:16.630
having some some sense of part of it was he

631
00:32:16.650 --> 00:32:19.079
wasn't here. I don't believe he was certainly not a U.S.

632
00:32:19.109 --> 00:32:20.609
citizen at the time. And I'm not even certain if

633
00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:21.849
he lived in this country at that time.

634
00:32:21.869 --> 00:32:23.450
He No, I don't think so.

635
00:32:23.490 --> 00:32:25.880
Fairly recent arrival in the United States. Uh, let's see,

636
00:32:25.930 --> 00:32:27.579
he's 33. He would have been eight years old. I

637
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:28.599
don't think it was in the U S yet. I

638
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:31.819
think it's still living in Uganda, if not mistaken. So,

639
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:34.940
so that's, that's part of it. Uh, but, uh, uh, yeah,

640
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.740
I don't think there's any, he needs to be able

641
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.329
to demonstrate some sense of empathy and I don't see

642
00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:44.250
much of that. And, um, I think, you know, deep down, he's, uh,

643
00:32:44.349 --> 00:32:47.890
probably more, um, sympathetic to these people than he should be.

644
00:32:47.930 --> 00:32:50.869
And maybe more sympathetic to them than he is empathetic

645
00:32:50.890 --> 00:32:54.710
to them or, or, uh, hostile or negative towards these people,

646
00:32:55.049 --> 00:32:57.519
these monsters who killed these people who did nothing other

647
00:32:57.539 --> 00:32:59.619
than go to work and try to be productive and

648
00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:02.079
try to be decent members of society, and they end

649
00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:06.829
up being incinerated. Now, that's 2,977 killed on September 11th,

650
00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:11.369
plus many more people were injured immediately that day, and

651
00:33:11.390 --> 00:33:15.130
then you have other people, especially the brave first responders

652
00:33:15.190 --> 00:33:18.910
are down at Ground Zero trying to extract, in fact,

653
00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:22.180
extracting people from the rubble sometimes whole bodies, very often

654
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.769
just small body parts. And those people subsequently went on

655
00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:29.490
to get all sorts of respiratory ailments, various unusual cancers,

656
00:33:29.529 --> 00:33:31.549
and all kinds of things. And if you add that up,

657
00:33:31.650 --> 00:33:34.750
it's not just around 3,000 victims. It goes up into

658
00:33:34.789 --> 00:33:37.650
the 5, 6, 7, maybe 10,000 range or something horrible

659
00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:37.970
like that.

660
00:33:37.990 --> 00:33:38.430
Yeah.

661
00:33:38.450 --> 00:33:42.329
Plus you had 11, DeRoy, 11 women that were pregnant.

662
00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:47.430
So they're babies. And then going back to uh, 93, uh,

663
00:33:48.210 --> 00:33:51.279
when they attacked, uh, you know, you had that attack

664
00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:54.180
in 93, there was also a woman with a child.

665
00:33:54.220 --> 00:33:57.000
So you got 12 unborn children as a result of

666
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.289
these terrorist activities that were murdered on that day. And

667
00:34:00.309 --> 00:34:02.130
the thing is the air deal, let me finish the

668
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:04.509
rest of the statement. This is, this is incredible. Mom,

669
00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:08.170
Donnie talks about, he says that he claims it was

670
00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:12.519
the day we're talking about November 11th, 2001, uh, It

671
00:34:12.579 --> 00:34:15.840
was the day that Islamophobia became a fact of life,

672
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:21.199
the day that many New Yorkers were marked as, quote unquote, other. Now,

673
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:23.719
let's take a look at what he talks about in

674
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.679
terms of Islamophobia and who's getting what.

675
00:34:27.139 --> 00:34:27.480
All right.

676
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:31.780
So here you've got a surge in all this hate

677
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.159
and these hate crimes that are taking place in New

678
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:34.679
York City.

679
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:35.000
Right.

680
00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:39.059
Well, more than half of them, 54 percent, are committed

681
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:43.719
against Jews and Only 6% of hate crimes are targeted

682
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:48.170
towards Muslims. So how do you square out those statistics?

683
00:34:49.110 --> 00:34:51.070
Well, I don't think you can. And in fact, as somebody,

684
00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:53.730
I lived through September 11th myself. I live in New

685
00:34:53.750 --> 00:34:55.349
York City. I happened to be in New York City

686
00:34:55.389 --> 00:34:58.219
that day. I watched Mohammed Atta fly an American Airlines

687
00:34:58.260 --> 00:34:58.780
jet right.

688
00:34:58.679 --> 00:34:59.420
Over my apartment.

689
00:34:59.739 --> 00:35:02.340
I just happened to be sitting on the balcony. I thought, oh,

690
00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:04.599
that's weird. I guess they must be having mechanical trouble.

691
00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:07.139
I hope they make it to Newark airport, which I

692
00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:08.820
figured they were going. Of course they were heading for the,

693
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:11.579
he was headed for the world trade center tower one,

694
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.059
and he smacked into it about 15 seconds later and

695
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.170
the rest is history. But the idea that we had

696
00:35:17.190 --> 00:35:22.650
this explosion of anti-Muslim Islamophobia and anti-Muslim viewpoints, et cetera,

697
00:35:22.889 --> 00:35:26.090
is that actually quite the opposite. I think I got

698
00:35:26.170 --> 00:35:27.949
a lot of thoughts thought, or I thought we might've

699
00:35:27.969 --> 00:35:29.690
seen this sort of thing happen. And in fact, people

700
00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:32.760
went out of their way to be accommodating towards Muslims

701
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:36.239
to say, okay, well, you know, these awful people did this,

702
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:38.119
but not every Muslim agrees.

703
00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:40.489
Well, you know, George W. set that up.

704
00:35:40.510 --> 00:35:45.809
To go out and be as open-minded and tolerant and

705
00:35:45.849 --> 00:35:49.809
welcoming and warm towards Muslims as Americans could. And I

706
00:35:49.829 --> 00:35:52.590
think they've, in fact, suffered far, far less than you

707
00:35:52.630 --> 00:35:55.030
might have imagined under the circumstances. In fact, I think

708
00:35:55.050 --> 00:35:57.329
we may have gone completely the other direction, maybe too

709
00:35:57.369 --> 00:35:59.909
far in the sense that we thought, okay, well, you know,

710
00:35:59.929 --> 00:36:02.190
let's not have too much surveillance and let's make sure

711
00:36:02.230 --> 00:36:04.780
we don't have cops keeping an eye on this mosque

712
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:08.440
where some suspicious activity is going on and that kind

713
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.920
of thing. And as a consequence, I think a lot

714
00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:16.699
of people saw Islam and specifically fundamentalist Islam expanding its

715
00:36:16.780 --> 00:36:19.320
reach and its scope and its influence in this country

716
00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:21.739
far more than people would have imagined. So the idea

717
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:25.469
that there was this big backlash against Muslims and Muslims

718
00:36:25.489 --> 00:36:28.690
were suffering, I just think is very much exaggerated and

719
00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:30.289
misses the mark. And as you say, a lot of

720
00:36:30.309 --> 00:36:32.309
the hate crimes that take place in this country are

721
00:36:32.329 --> 00:36:35.230
not anti-Muslims. but in fact, anti-Semitic acts of action.

722
00:36:35.369 --> 00:36:35.769
Exactly.

723
00:36:36.230 --> 00:36:36.409
Right.

724
00:36:36.750 --> 00:36:36.929
Yeah.

725
00:36:36.969 --> 00:36:38.929
And the thing is, as I was saying, and I'm sorry,

726
00:36:38.949 --> 00:36:42.150
I almost interrupted you there, was that, you know, George W.

727
00:36:42.210 --> 00:36:44.710
Bush contributed to setting this up. I mean, you get

728
00:36:44.750 --> 00:36:46.889
a nation that's very compassionate in any way, and I

729
00:36:46.909 --> 00:36:49.570
think we're still overly compassionate because of what happened in

730
00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:52.550
World War II with the Japanese. And so we wanted

731
00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:56.139
to make sure that we didn't, you know, go down

732
00:36:56.179 --> 00:36:59.099
that road. And I think we overcompensated and bought into

733
00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:02.420
this narrative, which was given to us by care and

734
00:37:02.539 --> 00:37:07.280
other pro-Islamists, that, you know, this is a religion of peace.

735
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.400
We're talking with Deroy Murdoch, and we've got more from

736
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:12.420
him coming up right after this. Stay with us.

737
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.300
A new study finds a major increase in STEM learning

738
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in after-school programs, but gaps remain. Today, 92% of parents

739
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with children in after-school say STEM is available, up from

740
00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:27.820
69% a decade ago. That's 6.4 million kids now getting

741
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742
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This study underscores the remarkable work out-of-school time programs do

743
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744
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them to succeed now and into the future.

745
00:37:40.449 --> 00:37:43.530
The study finds rural and low-income students are less likely

746
00:37:43.570 --> 00:37:47.170
to get frequent STEM opportunities, with rural programs also offering

747
00:37:47.289 --> 00:37:51.679
fewer opportunities in computer science and technology. Jody Grant, Executive

748
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:53.360
Director of the After-School Alliance.

749
00:37:53.739 --> 00:37:56.940
STEM literacy is no longer optional. It's the foundation of

750
00:37:56.980 --> 00:38:00.000
nearly every aspect of our economy and our world.

751
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The next step is clear. Invest more in after-school programs

752
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so every child in every community has access to STEM

753
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801
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Welcome back.

802
00:41:16.989 --> 00:41:23.579
Bill Martinez here with the Manhattan-based Fox News contributor, Deroy Murdoch. Well, Deroy, yeah,

803
00:41:23.619 --> 00:41:26.800
I mean, here it is. I think, again, America, out

804
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:29.059
of you and I have been talking about this for weeks,

805
00:41:29.139 --> 00:41:33.320
it seems, that because of our kindness and compassion, we

806
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:36.800
end up leaving ourselves vulnerable to people who are far

807
00:41:36.889 --> 00:41:38.550
from being compassionate and kind.

808
00:41:40.050 --> 00:41:42.050
I think that's exactly right. You know, I don't think

809
00:41:42.070 --> 00:41:43.690
anybody wants to be in a situation where Muslims are

810
00:41:43.730 --> 00:41:46.860
just hunted down and attacked or beaten or killed or

811
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:49.880
whatever it might be just because they're Muslims. That's not

812
00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:51.840
the American way. That's not the way it should happen.

813
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:53.579
People should be free to practice the religion they wish.

814
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:55.920
But if you have people over in this country, either

815
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.400
people born here, people who have moved here, who are

816
00:41:58.420 --> 00:42:00.980
hostile to this country and want to hurt us, harm us,

817
00:42:01.219 --> 00:42:04.550
kill us, it's completely appropriate to defend ourselves against them.

818
00:42:05.590 --> 00:42:08.590
And there are many instances where something has happened and

819
00:42:08.610 --> 00:42:10.650
immediately people say, oh, we don't think it's terrorism. There's

820
00:42:10.690 --> 00:42:13.389
no tie to Islam. And eventually we realize, oh, yeah,

821
00:42:13.409 --> 00:42:15.889
there is. So I think there has been an effort

822
00:42:15.929 --> 00:42:19.929
maybe in the name of compassion to look the other

823
00:42:19.989 --> 00:42:23.719
way at suspects in various crimes and so on and

824
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:28.059
immediately try to throw some nice bright sunshine over them.

825
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.619
So it's not there's no tie to Islamic terrorism. In fact,

826
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:32.460
we learned down the road. Yes, in fact, there is.

827
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:36.019
So that sort of thing, I think, can be I've

828
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:38.780
heard the term lately suicidal empathy. I think there's some

829
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:42.320
of that right happening in this country and much more.

830
00:42:42.340 --> 00:42:43.969
I think you see it a lot more in Europe.

831
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.239
excuse me, even in the UK where you had this

832
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:49.800
horrible situation where you had, uh, a city, I can't

833
00:42:49.820 --> 00:42:50.820
think of the name of it at the moment, but

834
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:54.050
a city with a large Muslim population and they were

835
00:42:54.090 --> 00:42:58.289
basically raping young women. And, uh, the police said, well, don't,

836
00:42:58.349 --> 00:43:00.409
don't look at that. Let's not pay that attention. Look

837
00:43:00.429 --> 00:43:02.989
the other way. As these women are being raped. Um,

838
00:43:03.409 --> 00:43:06.519
you've got a situation in Germany where you had, um, uh,

839
00:43:06.579 --> 00:43:07.579
some sort of an, I think it was like a

840
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.840
Christmas outdoor Christmas festival or winter festival of some kind

841
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:15.840
and a bunch of Muslim, um, Immigrants went through the

842
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:21.070
event and basically started sexually attacking the women in this

843
00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.630
particular place. And rather than say, oh, my God, this

844
00:43:23.650 --> 00:43:25.650
is awful. These people need to be rounded up. The

845
00:43:25.690 --> 00:43:28.289
effort was, well, let's not make the Muslims uncomfortable. So

846
00:43:28.309 --> 00:43:30.969
they covered that up and urged people not to report

847
00:43:31.010 --> 00:43:32.880
it and basically threw a big tarp over it so

848
00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:35.199
nobody could see this happening. All these guys were doing

849
00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:38.559
was going in and basically trying to put this as

850
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:41.679
politely as possible. helping themselves to these women and groping

851
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:43.480
and getting their hands in places where they shouldn't have been.

852
00:43:43.820 --> 00:43:48.079
Let's put it that way. And again, any sensible civilization

853
00:43:48.099 --> 00:43:50.230
would say, you do this to our women or our

854
00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:51.829
men or our little boys or little girls, whatever it

855
00:43:51.849 --> 00:43:54.429
may be, and you attack them in that fashion, any fashion,

856
00:43:54.829 --> 00:43:57.900
especially a sexual fashion. And we're going to expose you.

857
00:43:57.909 --> 00:43:59.690
We're going to pick you up. And if you're from

858
00:43:59.869 --> 00:44:00.989
out of this country, we're going to kick you out

859
00:44:01.010 --> 00:44:02.570
of here. If you're from this country, we're probably going

860
00:44:02.590 --> 00:44:04.739
to put you in jail for a while. And the

861
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.579
response instead was, OK, don't look there. There's nothing to see.

862
00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:10.489
Everyone look away. Let's cover up for these people. And

863
00:44:10.550 --> 00:44:12.710
that thing, all that does is encourage more people to

864
00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:16.929
do this sort of thing and lower the society's resistance

865
00:44:17.329 --> 00:44:20.269
to this kind of an infection. And that's what it is.

866
00:44:20.690 --> 00:44:22.650
So I think we I think you're correct that I

867
00:44:22.690 --> 00:44:28.070
think in many respects we overcompensated and treated our society

868
00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:32.510
and a lot of Western civilization as insufficiently cautious or

869
00:44:32.550 --> 00:44:34.869
insufficiently vigilant. against militant Islam.

870
00:44:35.769 --> 00:44:38.409
And unfortunately, what is happening in Europe doesn't stay in Europe.

871
00:44:38.849 --> 00:44:41.550
It goes across the Atlantic. It comes into the country.

872
00:44:41.570 --> 00:44:45.489
I mean, the other thing to me that's very disgusting

873
00:44:45.530 --> 00:44:48.269
was the story of that young man. I believe it

874
00:44:48.329 --> 00:44:53.449
was in England, DeRoy. He was stabbed by a Muslim

875
00:44:54.110 --> 00:44:59.849
and the police came in and arrested the non-Muslim, put

876
00:44:59.889 --> 00:45:03.730
him in handcuffs while he's bleeding out. And he dies

877
00:45:03.849 --> 00:45:09.920
with handcuffs on. And it was the Muslim who stabbed him. And,

878
00:45:10.699 --> 00:45:15.079
you know, and so here it is. All because of,

879
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.699
you know, hate speech, a protected class. And immediately, you know,

880
00:45:20.739 --> 00:45:27.059
the Muslim's innocent. And you're letting the, you know, the victim,

881
00:45:27.619 --> 00:45:30.679
who is the real victim, you know, bleed out and

882
00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:35.210
die at your footsteps. because of this protected class status

883
00:45:35.230 --> 00:45:37.909
that they have there. So all this is very dangerous.

884
00:45:39.349 --> 00:45:42.269
This is why, again, our First Amendment right is so

885
00:45:42.389 --> 00:45:46.949
critical in our country, because it protects us, it saves us, right?

886
00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:49.889
Yeah, well, you're talking about one side of the coin,

887
00:45:50.369 --> 00:45:55.739
which is this instant reflex that if there's a conflict

888
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:57.739
between a Muslim and a white person, that the Muslim's

889
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.400
the victim and the white person is the perpetrator because of,

890
00:46:00.659 --> 00:46:04.309
let's all say together, white supremacy. And so, as you say,

891
00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:07.110
in the UK, you had this young man walking down

892
00:46:07.130 --> 00:46:10.159
the street. He was, for whatever reason, attacked by this Muslim,

893
00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:12.059
and he was on the ground bleeding. I think it

894
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:14.380
was not evident. I think that he had a jacket

895
00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:16.480
covering up, so you didn't see the blood gushing out.

896
00:46:17.019 --> 00:46:19.159
And he said to the cop, this guy just tried

897
00:46:19.179 --> 00:46:20.900
to knife me. This guy just knifed me. I'm bleeding.

898
00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:23.960
And the cop's response was basically, I don't believe you.

899
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.519
If they're too Muslim and a white Christian or white non-Muslim,

900
00:46:29.949 --> 00:46:32.809
fighting it must be the white Muslim, non-Muslim who's attacking

901
00:46:32.849 --> 00:46:35.230
the Muslim. And so this guy's lying. So rather than

902
00:46:35.250 --> 00:46:36.829
get him an ambulance and try to treat him, he

903
00:46:36.849 --> 00:46:38.750
put him in handcuffs. And the guy said, I'm bleeding.

904
00:46:38.769 --> 00:46:39.610
He said, I don't think you're bleeding.

905
00:46:39.630 --> 00:46:40.010
You're lying.

906
00:46:40.030 --> 00:46:41.510
And the guy, in fact, bled to death. This is

907
00:46:41.570 --> 00:46:45.159
probably about six months ago in the UK. And the guy,

908
00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:47.340
the Muslim, in fact, was the guy who had the knife.

909
00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:49.699
And he's the one who attacked the white non-Muslim. And

910
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.260
that guy's now dead. And the Muslim's alive and well.

911
00:46:53.179 --> 00:46:56.309
So this is just a very small microcosm. of this

912
00:46:56.389 --> 00:46:59.550
problem where we, in these conflicts, we see the Muslims as, oh,

913
00:46:59.590 --> 00:47:01.969
the poor Muslim is suffering. He's a victim. Isn't that sad?

914
00:47:02.349 --> 00:47:05.789
And the white guy, obviously, is the vicious, racist, white nationalist,

915
00:47:05.809 --> 00:47:08.650
white supremacist who is trying to impose himself on the

916
00:47:08.690 --> 00:47:12.389
Muslim and oppress him or colonialize him, to use the

917
00:47:12.449 --> 00:47:15.050
term a lot of white people use. And yeah, this

918
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.760
is just a small example of this. And we've seen

919
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:23.079
this entire attitude just metastasized since September 11th to the

920
00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:26.719
huge detriment of innocent people in the Western world and

921
00:47:26.929 --> 00:47:29.579
to the detriment, I think, of Western civilization overall.

922
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:33.619
Well, I got to tell you, the psychology of the

923
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:36.739
West is being stretched. And if you think not, all

924
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.440
you have to do is study a little bit the

925
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:45.989
Lindsay Clancy case and what went on here. And to

926
00:47:46.030 --> 00:47:52.070
the point where you've got her attorney asking Donald Trump

927
00:47:52.130 --> 00:47:55.070
to render a pardon, which this guy's an attorney. He

928
00:47:55.110 --> 00:47:57.349
should know better. Donald Trump has no jurisdiction.

929
00:47:59.070 --> 00:48:01.659
Well, that's a good point. This is a state crime,

930
00:48:01.699 --> 00:48:04.900
not a federal crime. So President Trump could not issue

931
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.719
a pardon even if he wanted to. He could certainly

932
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.099
get on his soapbox and say, be nice to Lindsay

933
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.269
and let her go and make her the mayor or

934
00:48:12.289 --> 00:48:14.170
something like this. I don't think that's going to happen, thankfully.

935
00:48:14.590 --> 00:48:18.590
But boy, the sheer chutzpah of this attorney not to

936
00:48:18.630 --> 00:48:20.510
take the mistrial and say, okay, we're going to prepare

937
00:48:20.530 --> 00:48:23.239
for another trial and defend her when that's his job

938
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.559
as her attorney, but to stand up and say, oh, hey,

939
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:28.380
she should get a pardon. He actually said during his

940
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:32.510
closing remarks that she was a model mother. Oh my God,

941
00:48:32.570 --> 00:48:33.750
how could he say that?

942
00:48:34.250 --> 00:48:34.909
It's amazing.

943
00:48:34.989 --> 00:48:38.170
And I started paying, I'm out here visiting my parents,

944
00:48:38.210 --> 00:48:40.110
my sisters and friends out here in Southern California. So

945
00:48:40.210 --> 00:48:42.590
I've had a bit of free time to watch TV

946
00:48:42.610 --> 00:48:44.739
in the evenings and watch some of the coverage of

947
00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:47.989
this trial and the repercussions afterwards. I came to this

948
00:48:48.030 --> 00:48:51.670
story kind of late, but I've just been appalled at

949
00:48:51.710 --> 00:48:55.599
this story of this woman who took her three little kids,

950
00:48:57.019 --> 00:49:00.219
took them down to the basement, took elastic stretch bands

951
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.079
that you see people use at the gym, put them

952
00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:04.059
around their necks and squeezed them so hard that according

953
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:09.599
to Nancy Grace, the legal commenter, their already small necks

954
00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:11.860
are even smaller as a result of how hard she

955
00:49:12.019 --> 00:49:14.519
stretched to kill them. And it wasn't like these cases

956
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.079
you may have heard of where some mom is driving

957
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.420
around and she drives the kid or drives into a

958
00:49:20.420 --> 00:49:22.320
lake and they drown. And this all happens very quickly.

959
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:26.619
This happened very slowly, very methodically, killed one kid.

960
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:29.099
And then they said about two minutes. It was about

961
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:30.019
a two minute process.

962
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:30.760
Correct.

963
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.159
And then rather found the next kid, strangled the next

964
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:35.949
kid in the basement. And then the third one, I think,

965
00:49:35.989 --> 00:49:37.829
tried to escape. And so she had to chase the

966
00:49:37.869 --> 00:49:40.070
kid down, bring the kid down to the basement. and

967
00:49:40.090 --> 00:49:42.570
then strangle it. So these are three specific acts. And

968
00:49:42.590 --> 00:49:44.170
you think at some point she'd say, oh my God,

969
00:49:44.489 --> 00:49:45.969
what am I doing? I got to stop this. And

970
00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:47.550
maybe one of the kids is killed, but the other

971
00:49:47.590 --> 00:49:50.199
two are spared or two out of three are killed

972
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.340
and one is alive. No, they're all three dead. And

973
00:49:52.539 --> 00:49:56.559
supposedly she had postpartum depression and she was depressed and

974
00:49:56.579 --> 00:49:58.699
mentally ill. And so for a thing, we should let

975
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.340
her go. Well, she was somehow, even though it was allegedly,

976
00:50:01.909 --> 00:50:05.710
supposedly from her claim, mentally ill, she was mentally clear

977
00:50:05.750 --> 00:50:10.559
enough to send her husband off on some errands. So

978
00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:13.699
he would be gone long enough to be out of

979
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:15.449
the house for an hour, hour and a half, whatever

980
00:50:15.489 --> 00:50:18.449
it is, however much time she needed to go out

981
00:50:18.630 --> 00:50:20.949
and to stay home and kill the kids while the

982
00:50:21.070 --> 00:50:24.769
husband was not around to keep them alive. And she

983
00:50:24.789 --> 00:50:27.269
apparently did a Google search to figure out how long

984
00:50:27.289 --> 00:50:29.269
it would take to go from her home to whatever

985
00:50:29.329 --> 00:50:31.150
this destination was she sent him and how long it

986
00:50:31.170 --> 00:50:33.789
would take for this person, for her husband to come back.

987
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:36.940
So we're to believe that she's so mentally ill that

988
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.019
she'd kill her kids at the same time she's got

989
00:50:39.489 --> 00:50:42.550
the mental alertness and mental capacity to sit down and

990
00:50:42.610 --> 00:50:46.730
plot this, this multiple homicide. And one of the things

991
00:50:46.750 --> 00:50:48.349
that bothers me a lot about the coverage of this

992
00:50:48.409 --> 00:50:51.670
story is we heard a lot about, about Lindsay and

993
00:50:51.750 --> 00:50:53.570
all the drugs she's taking. And the poor woman has

994
00:50:53.929 --> 00:50:56.630
heard a voice and so on. So I heard not

995
00:50:56.670 --> 00:50:58.030
a word of sympathy about the father.

996
00:50:58.449 --> 00:50:59.090
Oh my gosh.

997
00:50:59.230 --> 00:51:02.630
Poor man coming home from picking up food or whatever

998
00:51:02.670 --> 00:51:05.030
the errands were that his wife asked him to do

999
00:51:05.469 --> 00:51:07.949
opens the door. Apparently he's got little kids expects here,

1000
00:51:07.969 --> 00:51:10.230
a lot of noise and, kids running around and screaming

1001
00:51:10.269 --> 00:51:11.710
and playing, which is what little kids do.

1002
00:51:11.750 --> 00:51:12.110
She's out.

1003
00:51:12.190 --> 00:51:14.489
She's outside. She already threw herself out the window.

1004
00:51:14.849 --> 00:51:15.949
She threw herself out the window.

1005
00:51:16.130 --> 00:51:20.159
He sees her on the ground. She's bleeding and she's,

1006
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:21.639
you know, so yeah, go ahead.

1007
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:22.260
Yeah.

1008
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:24.500
And so, and then he goes inside and doesn't hear anything.

1009
00:51:24.539 --> 00:51:26.280
And he goes down to the basement and sees that

1010
00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:29.599
is his three little children are dead and they've been

1011
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:30.960
strangled by his wife.

1012
00:51:31.539 --> 00:51:31.840
Wow.

1013
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:34.519
Now, independent of whatever you may think about, about Lindsay,

1014
00:51:34.579 --> 00:51:37.539
think about what's going through his head. Obviously complete shock.

1015
00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:44.929
Deep depression as children are killed. Probably a combination of depression, horror,

1016
00:51:45.070 --> 00:51:48.349
and rage that this was perpetrated by his wife, who

1017
00:51:48.530 --> 00:51:50.989
admits that there's no question of whether she's innocent. She

1018
00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:54.110
admits that this happened. And what's this guy thinking? And

1019
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:56.019
by the way, he obviously, again, was out of the

1020
00:51:56.059 --> 00:51:58.880
house doing these errands, which is why Lindsay had the

1021
00:51:58.900 --> 00:52:01.340
time and the opportunity to kill her children. So he

1022
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:04.099
will go forever until the day he dies, thinking to himself,

1023
00:52:04.530 --> 00:52:06.690
What if I come home earlier? What if I skip

1024
00:52:06.710 --> 00:52:09.610
the errands and stayed there? What if I ordered the

1025
00:52:09.969 --> 00:52:11.829
food or products or whatever it is in rather than

1026
00:52:11.849 --> 00:52:13.050
go out and pick them up? My kids would be

1027
00:52:13.070 --> 00:52:15.230
alive today. This poor man is going to have this

1028
00:52:15.289 --> 00:52:18.900
tremendous weight of guilt on his head, which I think

1029
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:21.099
he's 100% blameless in this, but I'm sure he's blaming

1030
00:52:21.139 --> 00:52:23.619
himself for this, and he will until he dies. He's

1031
00:52:23.659 --> 00:52:25.880
going to carry this weight around on his back for

1032
00:52:25.940 --> 00:52:27.019
probably another 30 or 40 or 50 years.

1033
00:52:28.250 --> 00:52:30.420
Well, you know, he's since remarried, you know, and he

1034
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.659
has a child with a new wife. And I mean,

1035
00:52:34.699 --> 00:52:36.880
I'm like you. I'm thinking, oh, my gosh. I mean,

1036
00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:40.119
I'd be so paranoid about it.

1037
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:42.940
You bet. Absolutely. I'm sure every time, again, he's remarried.

1038
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:44.389
Good for him. He's got another kid. I'm sure every

1039
00:52:44.409 --> 00:52:46.710
time he walks out the front door, he thinks, you know,

1040
00:52:46.769 --> 00:52:48.690
is my wife going to kill the next kid, right?

1041
00:52:49.210 --> 00:52:52.670
And so, again, I'm waiting. I keep watching these people

1042
00:52:52.730 --> 00:52:54.289
on TV talking about this case, and I don't hear

1043
00:52:54.510 --> 00:52:59.369
any word of, concern or sympathy or empathy or even

1044
00:52:59.429 --> 00:53:02.210
acknowledgement of what the father's going through. So I think

1045
00:53:02.250 --> 00:53:03.530
this is, I don't know if that's some sort of

1046
00:53:03.570 --> 00:53:07.590
an inbred anti-male view or there's a man involved, he

1047
00:53:07.610 --> 00:53:09.840
must be the bad guy or maybe they're so concerned

1048
00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:11.579
about Lindsay they don't talk about him. But I just

1049
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.539
think somebody somewhere, and maybe I'm the first one to

1050
00:53:13.579 --> 00:53:15.420
do it, has got to step up and say, oh

1051
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:17.039
my God, I can't believe what the father's going through.

1052
00:53:17.420 --> 00:53:19.639
I wish him the best in this horrible situation and

1053
00:53:19.659 --> 00:53:21.780
I feel nothing but deep, deep empathy for him and

1054
00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:24.300
hope he's able to get through this horrible situation as

1055
00:53:24.340 --> 00:53:25.219
best he possibly can.

1056
00:53:25.820 --> 00:53:28.900
Well, I hear Mazie Hirono yelling in the background saying,

1057
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:31.809
you guys need to sit down and shut up. You know,

1058
00:53:31.889 --> 00:53:37.150
so we are invalidated. Males have no participation in the

1059
00:53:37.210 --> 00:53:40.929
culture and in family life, according to Mazie Hirono. Just,

1060
00:53:41.590 --> 00:53:43.119
you know, all of a sudden I flashed back on

1061
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:43.719
that statement.

1062
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.780
Even if you've got three dead children in the middle.

1063
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:46.900
Of it all.

1064
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:50.480
Exactly. Well, we got to leave it there for now. DeRoy,

1065
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:53.239
thank you as always. Appreciate the time. DeRoy Murdoch, the

1066
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:55.679
Manhattan-based Fox News contributor. Thank you, DeRoy. Take care.

1067
00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:56.159
You bet, Bill.

1068
00:53:56.179 --> 00:53:56.800
I'll talk to you soon.

1069
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:57.079
Thanks.

1070
00:53:57.780 --> 00:54:00.860
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1071
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1079
00:54:26.909 --> 00:54:29.050
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1080
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00:54:32.949 --> 00:54:36.230
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1084
00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:42.940
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1085
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:43.079
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1086
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1087
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:53.780
That's 800-254-1421. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay, let's do it.

1088
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:57.070
Bill Martinez Live, a program about current events, our.

1089
00:54:56.949 --> 00:55:03.710
Culture, our values, our politics, and our future.

1090
00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:04.750
And now, Bill Martinez.

1091
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.360
Well, good morning. Six minutes after the top of the

1092
00:55:17.380 --> 00:55:20.199
hour right now, Bill Martin is here with Dr. George Barna,

1093
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:23.809
the Director of Research at Arizona Christian University's Cultural Research

1094
00:55:23.829 --> 00:55:28.369
Center and author of Raising Spiritual Champions. Hey, Dr. George,

1095
00:55:28.789 --> 00:55:30.750
happy Father's Day, belatedly.

1096
00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:33.010
Brother Bill, good to see you again. I hope you

1097
00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:33.530
had a good one.

1098
00:55:34.050 --> 00:55:37.000
Yeah, it was a good one. It was nice and peaceful,

1099
00:55:37.059 --> 00:55:40.059
just the way we like to have it. And, you know,

1100
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:42.480
because we had to not look at what's happening in

1101
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:44.019
our country, and I had to just kind of take

1102
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:48.059
a breather because... I've been increasingly concerned, and the evidence

1103
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.559
that you've got to share with us tells me that

1104
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:53.679
my concern is not without justification.

1105
00:55:54.340 --> 00:55:57.219
No, it's well-founded. I mean, the new survey, we're looking

1106
00:55:57.260 --> 00:56:03.030
at people's beliefs about humanity, you know, the natural, and

1107
00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:06.610
then we also compare that to their beliefs about the supernatural,

1108
00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:10.250
looking at God and different spirits and so forth. And

1109
00:56:10.329 --> 00:56:13.239
it's not a pretty picture. I mean, the Belief in

1110
00:56:13.260 --> 00:56:15.940
the God of the Bible continues to drop. We're about

1111
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:19.579
half the country being there now. When we look at

1112
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:22.679
what we think about humanity, we don't have the same

1113
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:25.760
picture of humanity that God does, that's for sure. That's

1114
00:56:25.780 --> 00:56:29.699
for sure, yeah. Yeah, so we went through seven questions

1115
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.199
in each of those areas, the natural and supernatural. Found that,

1116
00:56:33.739 --> 00:56:37.460
by and large, in only one case for the natural

1117
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:40.440
and in one case out of the seven for the supernatural,

1118
00:56:41.030 --> 00:56:45.300
do people have a biblical perspective on those issues? So

1119
00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:49.400
it's getting worse. And when we look at it generationally,

1120
00:56:49.860 --> 00:56:52.960
continuing the pattern we've been seeing for years now, the

1121
00:56:53.019 --> 00:56:55.989
younger you get, the less likely they are to have

1122
00:56:56.030 --> 00:56:59.530
a biblical perspective on almost no matter what topic you're

1123
00:56:59.550 --> 00:57:04.389
talking about. So that's disturbing. But we're even finding that

1124
00:57:04.550 --> 00:57:09.030
the group that pastors call the backbone of the local church,

1125
00:57:09.570 --> 00:57:15.190
theologically identified born-again Christians, even that group is loosening their

1126
00:57:15.250 --> 00:57:19.429
grip on biblical perspectives, and they're more likely now to

1127
00:57:19.469 --> 00:57:22.889
be taking on worldly perspectives. You know, I mean, we're

1128
00:57:22.909 --> 00:57:25.929
at a place where three out of four of the

1129
00:57:26.010 --> 00:57:32.239
theologically identified born-agains say that people are basically good, which,

1130
00:57:32.300 --> 00:57:35.940
of course, is a complete misunderstanding of Scripture, which says, no, no, no, no, no,

1131
00:57:35.980 --> 00:57:39.159
you're sinners. That's why Jesus had to die, because you're

1132
00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:41.179
not good. If you were good, you could save yourself.

1133
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:43.190
You're not so good. Get over it.

1134
00:57:43.699 --> 00:57:46.670
Yeah. And Jesus wouldn't have had to go through all

1135
00:57:46.710 --> 00:57:47.210
that he went.

1136
00:57:47.090 --> 00:57:47.610
Through, right?

1137
00:57:48.789 --> 00:57:49.070
Yeah.

1138
00:57:49.590 --> 00:57:54.510
Painful stuff, illegal stuff, murderous stuff. I mean, no matter

1139
00:57:54.530 --> 00:57:56.699
how you want to put it, it was not good,

1140
00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:00.340
except in the outcome for us if we understand it

1141
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.989
and embrace it and work with it. But Americans are,

1142
00:58:05.010 --> 00:58:07.849
and forgive me for saying this, but I mean, we're

1143
00:58:07.969 --> 00:58:11.780
so full of ourselves that we think we're the solution

1144
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:14.980
to everything. When in point of fact, no matter how

1145
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:17.579
far back you go in history, what you find is

1146
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:21.320
those people who realize, no, we can't make it work

1147
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:25.159
on our own. And we're not meant to. The whole

1148
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:27.380
idea of God creating us, and this is one of

1149
00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.260
the things we looked at in this survey, universal purpose.

1150
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:32.900
Why did God make us? He made us to know, love,

1151
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:35.010
and serve Him with all our heart, mind, strength, and soul.

1152
00:58:35.570 --> 00:58:38.429
But we're not buying that. We're thinking He made us

1153
00:58:38.510 --> 00:58:40.829
so that we can take over, we can make all

1154
00:58:40.869 --> 00:58:44.389
the big decisions, we can fix everything that we've broken,

1155
00:58:44.889 --> 00:58:47.730
and everything's going to be all right. And unfortunately, it's

1156
00:58:48.170 --> 00:58:50.989
just not like that. Do you realize, Bill, that only

1157
00:58:51.329 --> 00:58:54.510
one out of three adults in America believe that the

1158
00:58:54.590 --> 00:58:57.800
universal purpose for humanity is to love God with all

1159
00:58:57.840 --> 00:58:59.980
our heart, mind, strength, and soul? One out of three

1160
00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:04.440
Americans believe And, you know, for a while in human history,

1161
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:08.809
America was the shining light spiritually. But I think that

1162
00:59:08.889 --> 00:59:10.840
light has been getting dimmer. and dimmer and dimmer. At

1163
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:12.239
least the research shows that.

1164
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:13.219
Yeah.

1165
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:16.659
We need another George Whitefield, perhaps George, you know.

1166
00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:19.440
I'd take it. I'd love it. Yeah. I don't know

1167
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:21.429
if he'd still want to go on horseback given the

1168
00:59:21.449 --> 00:59:24.789
condition of the country, but man, we could use that heart,

1169
00:59:24.829 --> 00:59:26.909
that mind and that soul that he brought to the,

1170
00:59:27.050 --> 00:59:27.849
to the process.

1171
00:59:28.670 --> 00:59:33.070
Well, and sometimes, you know, and I understand this is

1172
00:59:33.449 --> 00:59:37.329
disconcerting and it's worrying, but God is still in control.

1173
00:59:37.369 --> 00:59:41.050
He's still on the throne. And the thing is, humanity

1174
00:59:41.110 --> 00:59:45.719
has passed this road before and has been at this intersection. And,

1175
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:48.320
of course, we know what happens. I mean, because God

1176
00:59:48.340 --> 00:59:50.760
has always said, look, I'll give you a choice. You know,

1177
00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:53.320
if you will turn from your wicked ways.

1178
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:53.900
All right.

1179
00:59:54.500 --> 00:59:57.699
And turn to me, you know, I will hear. I'll

1180
00:59:57.739 --> 01:00:01.670
begin to hear. Right now, many people are, let's just say,

1181
01:00:01.690 --> 01:00:04.869
a remnant of those with faith are wondering if God

1182
01:00:04.929 --> 01:00:08.630
is hearing anymore because he's just had it with this arrogance,

1183
01:00:08.789 --> 01:00:12.360
like you said, because this is all, this all points

1184
01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:14.199
back to the original sin, right, George?

1185
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:17.760
Absolutely. And I think you bring up a couple of

1186
01:00:17.860 --> 01:00:20.820
really key points, one of which you use the word remnant.

1187
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:24.489
One of my favorite words coming out of scripture is, Because,

1188
01:00:24.510 --> 01:00:25.769
you know, a lot of people will come up to

1189
01:00:25.789 --> 01:00:27.239
me and say, oh my gosh, George, you've been doing

1190
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:29.900
this for so long. How can you not be depressed?

1191
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:35.219
It's like, well, don't make assumptions, okay? It does get depressing.

1192
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:37.820
But then when I go back in his word and

1193
01:00:37.900 --> 01:00:41.019
I see that every time that he transformed the culture,

1194
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:44.079
what he did was he gathered up those people who

1195
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.340
were totally sold out to him. They wanted nothing but

1196
01:00:46.389 --> 01:00:48.909
what God wanted and they're willing to do anything to

1197
01:00:48.949 --> 01:00:53.349
get it. And he took that group, the remnant, and then...

1198
01:00:53.789 --> 01:00:57.050
He sliced it into just a fraction of the total.

1199
01:00:57.590 --> 01:01:01.030
And then with that small, small group, he changed the culture.

1200
01:01:01.699 --> 01:01:06.519
And the important lesson to me, a sociologist, a research guy,

1201
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:09.239
I'm always looking at the numbers and say, oh, no,

1202
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:13.480
we've got a minority. God only used minorities of the

1203
01:01:13.579 --> 01:01:17.880
people to change any culture. So it doesn't, the raw

1204
01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:22.159
numbers don't matter. What I'm more interested, frankly, are the trends.

1205
01:01:22.670 --> 01:01:25.989
Are we moving toward him or away from him? Because

1206
01:01:26.070 --> 01:01:28.230
as a follower of Christ, that gives me a better

1207
01:01:28.269 --> 01:01:31.469
understanding of what we need to do, how urgent it is,

1208
01:01:31.849 --> 01:01:34.230
how much of our resource base we need to pour

1209
01:01:34.309 --> 01:01:37.630
into that as quickly as possible. So that's one key thing.

1210
01:01:38.050 --> 01:01:40.130
You know, the other word that you mentioned that I

1211
01:01:40.170 --> 01:01:44.420
think is so critical, Bill, is repentance. Because as I've

1212
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:47.039
been doing research over the last two or three years

1213
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:52.809
on discipleship, worldview, those types of things, One thing I've

1214
01:01:52.849 --> 01:01:56.510
discovered is that Americans, when they hear about the gospel,

1215
01:01:57.110 --> 01:02:00.130
they hear about how they can get saved, but they

1216
01:02:00.250 --> 01:02:05.170
don't hear or they don't attend to that part that

1217
01:02:05.230 --> 01:02:09.210
talks about repentance. And when you ask them, well, what

1218
01:02:09.230 --> 01:02:14.150
do you think repentance is? Ah, feeling sorry. No, I mean,

1219
01:02:14.170 --> 01:02:17.070
that's part of it. That's a good start. But you're

1220
01:02:17.090 --> 01:02:20.389
basically at the starting line there. Repentance means to turn around.

1221
01:02:21.070 --> 01:02:23.480
And so in the context of our behavior, what it

1222
01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:27.000
means is whatever has caused us to sin, whatever's caused us,

1223
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:29.719
in other words, to break God's heart, to break his rules,

1224
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.000
which he gave us for our own good. Well, repentance

1225
01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:36.050
means I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going

1226
01:02:36.070 --> 01:02:37.969
to go back and do what God called me to do.

1227
01:02:38.329 --> 01:02:41.230
I'm going to do the opposite, go the opposite direction,

1228
01:02:41.289 --> 01:02:45.090
a turnaround of what I had been doing because my

1229
01:02:45.170 --> 01:02:49.219
desire is to honor God, to please God, to satisfy God.

1230
01:02:49.780 --> 01:02:53.139
And when I do that, that will bring fulfillment to

1231
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:53.599
my life.

1232
01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:57.869
You have to know God. When you know God, then

1233
01:02:58.150 --> 01:03:04.090
you begin to reconcile God's character and his personality with

1234
01:03:04.130 --> 01:03:10.460
your behavior. And the contrast is so glaring, George, that,

1235
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:15.139
you know, you're like Moses at the burning bush or Isaiah,

1236
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:18.599
who is revealed who God is. And he says, I'm toast.

1237
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:24.460
And the toast is getting darker every day in America.

1238
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:27.179
You know, I hope we lighten up on that, you know,

1239
01:03:27.860 --> 01:03:33.380
burn lever. But, I mean, even simple things. This is

1240
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:38.440
what really concerns me so much. For probably 40 years now,

1241
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:42.510
I've been asking people about Jesus Christ. And one of

1242
01:03:42.530 --> 01:03:47.210
the things that we've consistently discovered is that we understand

1243
01:03:47.389 --> 01:03:51.760
so little of the biblical narrative that Two out of

1244
01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:56.800
three Americans believe that when Jesus was on earth, he sinned.

1245
01:03:56.820 --> 01:04:01.719
And when you talk about knowing God, Jesus, of course,

1246
01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:05.019
being God, it's like, well, how much more of a

1247
01:04:05.079 --> 01:04:07.099
red flag do you have to wave to say, no,

1248
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:10.300
I don't think you know the real God. Because Jesus,

1249
01:04:10.429 --> 01:04:15.030
by his very nature, was incapable of sin. And he

1250
01:04:15.090 --> 01:04:18.269
came here to take away our sin. That's the only

1251
01:04:18.349 --> 01:04:20.960
sin he ever had. was the sin of ours that

1252
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:21.659
he took away.

1253
01:04:22.590 --> 01:04:25.570
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This is Don Shank with today's global update from the

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Tide Ministry, sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ worldwide in

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01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:29.099
the languages people were born to speak. Christians across South Asia,

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from Afghanistan to Pakistan, face a wall of resistance, both

1292
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legal and social. Many believers live in communities openly hostile

1293
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to the gospel, where they are frequently accused of crimes

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against sacred texts. Despite no eyewitnesses and no real evidence,

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the neighborhood response is immediate and severe, and in many cases, life-threatening.

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Yet in the middle of all that, people are still

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responding to the gospel. In Pakistan, the Tide ministry is

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seeing a huge response to their gospel-centered social media outreach.

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The dangers facing Pakistani believers is a call for the

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Tide to press forward in proclaiming the gospel and to

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remain committed to being a source of hope for the

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local church. To learn how you can pray for and

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encourage people around the world whose lives have been eternally

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impacted by hearing the good news of Christ in their

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own language, visit thetide.org.

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That's thetide.org.

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for patriots.

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Dr.

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George Barnett is the Director of Research at Arizona.

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Christian University's Cultural Research Center and author of Raising Spiritual Champions.

1328
01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:29.119
Here we are, about ready to turn 250 years of

1329
01:09:29.140 --> 01:09:30.350
age and only half of adults hold a biblical view

1330
01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:32.350
of God. And it's amazing the journey of 250 years

1331
01:09:32.369 --> 01:09:49.420
because when it all began, You know, I mentioned Whitefield in,

1332
01:09:49.659 --> 01:09:53.819
you know, a great movie, you know, An Awakening, about

1333
01:09:53.859 --> 01:09:58.000
Whitefield and Benjamin Franklin. And what happened? I mean, here

1334
01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:01.789
Whitefield comes to the colonies and visits the colonies, what,

1335
01:10:01.829 --> 01:10:05.170
seven times, the different colonies? And he's taking the message,

1336
01:10:05.569 --> 01:10:08.970
you know, throughout that people needed to repent. And I

1337
01:10:09.029 --> 01:10:12.899
believe that was all part of, you know, God's hand

1338
01:10:13.020 --> 01:10:16.300
in America to kind of, you know, churn up the

1339
01:10:16.340 --> 01:10:19.899
ground and get ready for to receive the key message,

1340
01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:24.729
the key message of freedom. And like anything, when you

1341
01:10:24.739 --> 01:10:29.970
are countering the culture, especially with something as big as freedom, George,

1342
01:10:30.789 --> 01:10:32.850
that's going to come with a cost. It's not going

1343
01:10:32.869 --> 01:10:34.829
to be just, hey, let's just throw a party and

1344
01:10:34.869 --> 01:10:37.109
put on a funny hat and get some whistles and

1345
01:10:37.130 --> 01:10:40.890
blow and celebrate here. I mean, the colonists had to

1346
01:10:40.949 --> 01:10:43.829
be prepared to love God so much that they would

1347
01:10:43.869 --> 01:10:46.149
be willing to put it all on the line for

1348
01:10:46.189 --> 01:10:49.750
the sake of freedom which I believe ultimately what God

1349
01:10:49.810 --> 01:10:51.270
wants for all his creation.

1350
01:10:52.869 --> 01:10:56.670
And there's an interesting analogy there too, I think, in

1351
01:10:56.710 --> 01:11:00.649
that when you look at what we are in essence,

1352
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:03.720
which is spiritual beings who are made to know, love,

1353
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:07.939
and serve God, well, then really the most important freedom,

1354
01:11:08.020 --> 01:11:10.739
our freedom in America is incredible. I mean, there's never

1355
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:13.680
been anything like it and thank the Lord for it,

1356
01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:19.069
but it pales in comparison to the spiritual freedom that

1357
01:11:19.109 --> 01:11:21.720
we get by Jesus paying that same kind of cost

1358
01:11:21.729 --> 01:11:24.420
that you're talking about, that the colonists had to pay

1359
01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:27.600
in the Revolutionary War and before and after that, a

1360
01:11:27.800 --> 01:11:30.600
lot of, you know, hurt, a lot of pain, a

1361
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.479
lot of suffering, a lot of sacrifice. What do you

1362
01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:35.380
think Jesus did on that cross for us? What do

1363
01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:37.399
you think he did by having to come down to earth,

1364
01:11:37.460 --> 01:11:41.100
for goodness sakes, for 33 years and endure us imbeciles,

1365
01:11:41.539 --> 01:11:44.229
you know, running around, not understanding what he's talking about,

1366
01:11:44.659 --> 01:11:47.770
not getting what we're watching when we see him do

1367
01:11:47.850 --> 01:11:50.810
miracles and heal people and love people and, you know,

1368
01:11:50.890 --> 01:11:53.369
exhort people, all the things that he did to show

1369
01:11:53.529 --> 01:11:57.510
us the way. Well, yeah, you're absolutely right. There is

1370
01:11:57.550 --> 01:12:00.989
a cost to freedom. And one of the things that

1371
01:12:01.250 --> 01:12:05.569
I think contemporary Americans, at least the research shows, gloss

1372
01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:09.619
over is the fact that somebody paid the biggest price

1373
01:12:09.699 --> 01:12:12.859
for us. All we have to do is keep making

1374
01:12:12.939 --> 01:12:16.909
tiny payments on that. to maintain that freedom. And we're

1375
01:12:16.989 --> 01:12:22.600
not even willing to do that. We feel so entitled

1376
01:12:23.300 --> 01:12:26.319
that that's my birthright. I should have that freedom. I

1377
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:29.319
shouldn't have to do anything to maintain it. It's like, well,

1378
01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:32.229
maybe everything comes at a cost. And so you better

1379
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:35.390
count the cost and get out your pocketbook and pay

1380
01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:38.350
the piper because that's what we have to do. And

1381
01:12:38.449 --> 01:12:44.689
as Christians, we have the added responsibility, but the added privilege...

1382
01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:48.899
of bringing other people into that understanding. We are that

1383
01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:52.279
light in the darkness of our culture, but man, we

1384
01:12:52.300 --> 01:12:54.840
got to shine more brightly than we've been. I don't

1385
01:12:54.859 --> 01:12:57.770
mean to put a guilt trip on anybody, but time

1386
01:12:57.850 --> 01:12:59.850
is of the essence. We're here for such a time

1387
01:12:59.909 --> 01:13:02.029
as this. I don't know how much more time we've

1388
01:13:02.069 --> 01:13:04.689
got left. I don't want to stand before God when

1389
01:13:04.750 --> 01:13:06.489
I'm waiting to hear him say, well done, good and

1390
01:13:06.510 --> 01:13:11.510
faithful servant. And he says, You lazy so-and-so. What were

1391
01:13:11.529 --> 01:13:15.210
you doing? What were you thinking? Couldn't you see? I've

1392
01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:18.810
got research. Other people have other indicators that all point

1393
01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:21.739
in the same direction, that America is moving farther from

1394
01:13:21.779 --> 01:13:25.920
God rather than more urgently, tightly, and deeply toward him.

1395
01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:28.859
That's exactly what we need to be doing. As we

1396
01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:33.510
come to July 4th, Independence Day, praise God that we're

1397
01:13:33.670 --> 01:13:36.210
in America and we get to enjoy the freedoms that

1398
01:13:36.229 --> 01:13:39.600
we have. But man, let's never forget that those freedoms

1399
01:13:39.699 --> 01:13:43.920
pale in comparison to the eternal freedom that Jesus Christ

1400
01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:45.420
gave to us through that cross.

1401
01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:51.159
And the response, George, starts with us, each individual, because

1402
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:54.970
for the sake of, you know, our families, you know,

1403
01:13:54.989 --> 01:13:59.090
our marriages, we may be the one. And if we're

1404
01:13:59.130 --> 01:14:02.710
the one carrying the cross for the family, then so

1405
01:14:02.750 --> 01:14:06.489
be it. That's what has to be done. Otherwise, we're

1406
01:14:06.510 --> 01:14:08.470
going to end up at that. You know, like the

1407
01:14:08.569 --> 01:14:10.850
end of, if you remember the end of Schindler's List,

1408
01:14:11.810 --> 01:14:14.949
when Schindler is there and he's realizing how many people

1409
01:14:14.989 --> 01:14:16.680
he saved and how many more he could have saved,

1410
01:14:17.069 --> 01:14:19.989
even if he had given up a gold watch. You know,

1411
01:14:20.340 --> 01:14:23.100
today in America, are we willing to give up a

1412
01:14:23.140 --> 01:14:25.500
gold watch for the sake of our kids?

1413
01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:30.199
A couple of things come to mind. Again, going into

1414
01:14:30.220 --> 01:14:33.000
the research, different study. I'm working on a book now

1415
01:14:33.079 --> 01:14:36.880
on disciple making. And one of the things that, you know,

1416
01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:39.739
people have to understand is you can only reproduce who

1417
01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:43.960
you are. So who's going to make disciples? Existing disciples.

1418
01:14:44.659 --> 01:14:47.260
But then when I study the existing disciples, what I

1419
01:14:47.319 --> 01:14:50.380
see is that a large share of them are doing

1420
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:54.960
nothing to disciple other people. And then everybody stands around

1421
01:14:54.979 --> 01:14:57.640
and wonders, well, why isn't the church growing? Why isn't

1422
01:14:57.680 --> 01:15:01.340
the church healthy? Well, the people who have the privilege

1423
01:15:01.380 --> 01:15:04.520
of being a follower of Jesus are And loving that

1424
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:08.340
and knowing that it's significant. They get that. But what

1425
01:15:08.439 --> 01:15:10.720
many of them aren't getting is, but how do you

1426
01:15:10.739 --> 01:15:12.920
think other people are going to get there? You know,

1427
01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:16.920
you've got to invest the time in them. It's a relationship.

1428
01:15:17.539 --> 01:15:19.239
And in the same way, when I look at this

1429
01:15:19.279 --> 01:15:22.140
current research report, one of the things that we discovered

1430
01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:27.279
about the relationship with God is that most Americans admit

1431
01:15:27.819 --> 01:15:34.119
they don't actually have a living, real relationship. interactive, central

1432
01:15:34.220 --> 01:15:36.880
relationship with God. Even though it's always going to be

1433
01:15:36.899 --> 01:15:39.600
a work in progress, we're never going to be there,

1434
01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:43.760
you know, until we reach heaven. But short of that time,

1435
01:15:43.779 --> 01:15:46.579
I mean, we've really got to invest ourselves in that

1436
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:49.819
relationship and not put all the burden on God and say, well,

1437
01:15:49.939 --> 01:15:53.010
you know, you're the powerful one. You're the omnipresent one.

1438
01:15:53.409 --> 01:15:57.430
You make it happen. No, that's not how a relationship works.

1439
01:15:57.850 --> 01:16:00.250
It's a two-part deal. You do your part. I'll do

1440
01:16:00.310 --> 01:16:02.970
my part. And together we're going to grow. We're going

1441
01:16:02.989 --> 01:16:04.949
to love. We're going to learn. We're going to live.

1442
01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:08.340
That's how that works. And my fear is that the

1443
01:16:08.380 --> 01:16:12.659
American church has gotten so lazy, church capital C, that

1444
01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:17.079
we're not investing enough. We've been seduced by the world.

1445
01:16:17.659 --> 01:16:20.819
We've been taken over by the culture. We're being influenced

1446
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:24.149
by the media. And all of that is dragging us

1447
01:16:24.229 --> 01:16:28.430
away from God himself. And we're not kicking and then

1448
01:16:28.529 --> 01:16:31.699
screaming and, you know, fighting that. with all we've got,

1449
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:34.720
we've got to get back to God. He is our

1450
01:16:34.859 --> 01:16:35.319
only hope.

1451
01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:39.899
Well, exactly right, George, because this is, we are failing

1452
01:16:39.979 --> 01:16:43.859
to know God and that breaks off the relationship. This

1453
01:16:43.970 --> 01:16:46.189
is our source. I mean, we're not connected to the

1454
01:16:46.250 --> 01:16:49.569
vine and look at the fruit that's being demonstrated here.

1455
01:16:49.970 --> 01:16:53.949
And it's not, look at, this is for self-evaluation. I mean,

1456
01:16:54.050 --> 01:16:56.350
if you're in prayer with God, if you're in his word,

1457
01:16:56.939 --> 01:16:59.590
if you are continuing to build that relationship, if you

1458
01:16:59.630 --> 01:17:01.670
can say that you're closer to God this year than

1459
01:17:01.689 --> 01:17:03.949
you were last year, I think that's a good thing.

1460
01:17:04.270 --> 01:17:07.430
That's good. Yeah. I mean, you look for movement. It's

1461
01:17:07.449 --> 01:17:09.810
going to be incremental movement. You're not going to go

1462
01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:12.520
from 1 to 10 in a week. If you go

1463
01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:15.460
from 1 to 1.2 in a week, wow, that's good.

1464
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.439
All right, you're moving in the right direction. But one

1465
01:17:18.460 --> 01:17:20.600
of the things I see, Bill, in this research is

1466
01:17:20.659 --> 01:17:24.810
that most Americans do not believe that Satan is real.

1467
01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:30.260
And most of them do not believe that the Holy

1468
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:34.859
Spirit is real. And this is the helper that God

1469
01:17:34.890 --> 01:17:39.170
has sent to us to make those incremental gains. And

1470
01:17:39.270 --> 01:17:42.590
so because we don't have that relationship with him, we

1471
01:17:42.630 --> 01:17:46.109
don't understand these spiritual dynamics. We're not open to the

1472
01:17:46.149 --> 01:17:50.520
Holy Spirit coming and inhabiting us, literally. And, you know,

1473
01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:52.899
some people talk, well, my conscience, you know, it's on

1474
01:17:52.939 --> 01:17:55.060
my conscience. Well, that's the Holy Spirit, man. I mean,

1475
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:58.270
you know, Put these things together and begin to understand

1476
01:17:58.350 --> 01:18:01.369
when you allow the Holy Spirit to inhabit you and

1477
01:18:01.409 --> 01:18:04.949
to lead you and you learn the voice. And so

1478
01:18:04.989 --> 01:18:10.140
you start listening more carefully. That's incremental steps. So, you know,

1479
01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:14.960
each of us needs to be constantly reevaluating our spiritual lives,

1480
01:18:15.399 --> 01:18:18.279
trying to figure out what can we do to get

1481
01:18:18.420 --> 01:18:21.479
deeper in that relationship with God. And so if you

1482
01:18:21.539 --> 01:18:24.260
sent me a helper, let me work with the helper.

1483
01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:26.140
The helper knows where we're supposed to go.

1484
01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:26.840
Right.

1485
01:18:27.260 --> 01:18:31.739
Well, yeah, because here we are, George. I mean, we're body, mind,

1486
01:18:31.880 --> 01:18:35.470
and spirit. We're spiritual beings. We ignore that part to

1487
01:18:35.590 --> 01:18:37.750
our own demise. Jesus said, I have to leave that

1488
01:18:37.770 --> 01:18:40.569
the Holy Spirit would come to lead you, to continue

1489
01:18:40.630 --> 01:18:44.829
to guide you in truth and wisdom. And the thing is,

1490
01:18:44.890 --> 01:18:49.970
is that I think most Christians, most Bible-believing Christians believe

1491
01:18:50.229 --> 01:18:53.250
that still believe in God understand that the battle that

1492
01:18:53.310 --> 01:18:56.680
we're in right now is a spiritual battle. So how

1493
01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:59.939
do you fight a spiritual battle without spiritual weaponry?

1494
01:19:01.039 --> 01:19:03.819
Can't do it. Can't do it. You know, and part

1495
01:19:03.859 --> 01:19:05.579
of it too, Bill, you know, I mean, one of

1496
01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:07.880
the things that blows me away in the study we

1497
01:19:07.920 --> 01:19:11.680
found that Only one out of four Americans believe that

1498
01:19:11.739 --> 01:19:16.260
human life is sacred. So we're in this weird place

1499
01:19:17.060 --> 01:19:21.020
where we're arrogant, we're selfish, we're full of ourselves. And

1500
01:19:21.060 --> 01:19:24.979
yet we don't believe that our lives are given to

1501
01:19:25.060 --> 01:19:29.960
us by God and sacred because it's his gift. It's

1502
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:33.720
his special creation. We're made in his image for his purposes.

1503
01:19:34.380 --> 01:19:37.060
So we're so confused. You know, and you and I

1504
01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:40.479
have talked about our worldview research in the past and

1505
01:19:40.859 --> 01:19:44.500
the fact that we're syncretists. That's the reigning worldview in America,

1506
01:19:45.020 --> 01:19:47.550
which is where you just pull a little bit from Marxism,

1507
01:19:47.569 --> 01:19:51.090
a little bit secular humanism. Give me some of that postmodernism. Ooh,

1508
01:19:51.130 --> 01:19:54.149
this Eastern mystical stuff looks good. I'll take a little

1509
01:19:54.170 --> 01:19:56.310
bit of Bible, you know, and you put it all together,

1510
01:19:56.350 --> 01:19:58.890
you mash it up and you've got your own custom worldview.

1511
01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:02.060
But the problem with that is that it leaves us

1512
01:20:02.199 --> 01:20:06.520
terribly confused about what's right, what's wrong, what's real, what's false.

1513
01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:10.909
what's deceptive, what's accurate. And so, you know, we've got

1514
01:20:10.949 --> 01:20:14.210
to go back to the one place that's always true,

1515
01:20:14.409 --> 01:20:19.289
always real, always relevant, always reliable, God's word. So get

1516
01:20:19.329 --> 01:20:22.729
back in his word. Let him show you the way.

1517
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:26.640
Let the Holy Spirit guide you down that path. Learn

1518
01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:28.960
to listen to the voice so that you're making better

1519
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.000
decisions every day. You're not going to hit a thousand,

1520
01:20:32.020 --> 01:20:34.890
you know, right out of the first game. You know,

1521
01:20:34.930 --> 01:20:37.369
you're probably going to strike out four times, but that's okay.

1522
01:20:37.409 --> 01:20:39.680
Maybe you hit a few foul balls. Next day, maybe

1523
01:20:39.699 --> 01:20:41.579
you're going to hit a grounder. Day after that, maybe

1524
01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:43.920
a single. Who knows? You know, but you got to grow.

1525
01:20:43.939 --> 01:20:47.880
Yeah, exactly. Well, George, as we wrap things up, where

1526
01:20:47.899 --> 01:20:50.260
can people go, you know, plug in? I mean, this

1527
01:20:50.340 --> 01:20:52.689
is some great research. I mean, this is really, in

1528
01:20:52.739 --> 01:20:54.989
so many ways, mind-blowing, but it's also a call.

1529
01:20:56.890 --> 01:20:57.170
It is.

1530
01:20:57.250 --> 01:20:58.550
And I mean, you know, they can get it a

1531
01:20:58.569 --> 01:21:03.819
couple places. They can go to culturalresearchcenter.com. or they can

1532
01:21:03.859 --> 01:21:08.630
go to georgebarna.com. We've got all the reports in both places.

1533
01:21:08.670 --> 01:21:11.590
You can download them for free. But the important thing

1534
01:21:11.649 --> 01:21:14.890
is read them, think about them, pray about them, and

1535
01:21:14.949 --> 01:21:18.289
most importantly, do something about it, whether it's in your

1536
01:21:18.329 --> 01:21:21.390
own life spiritually so that you grow, or maybe it's

1537
01:21:21.470 --> 01:21:24.449
other people that you can help to grow. Particularly if

1538
01:21:24.470 --> 01:21:29.489
you're a disciple, recognize your responsibility to be discipling others

1539
01:21:29.750 --> 01:21:32.189
all the time. The only way we're gonna grow the

1540
01:21:32.229 --> 01:21:35.560
kingdom is if we put the footwork in. You know,

1541
01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:38.439
we do the sweat equity here to help build it.

1542
01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:41.489
God will help us along the way as we demonstrate

1543
01:21:41.529 --> 01:21:44.310
that heart. But we've got to make that step.

1544
01:21:44.630 --> 01:21:46.329
That's the key first step to do, right?

1545
01:21:46.729 --> 01:21:47.310
It really is.

1546
01:21:47.890 --> 01:21:48.069
Yeah.

1547
01:21:48.390 --> 01:21:50.729
You know, go back to James. You know, God's not

1548
01:21:50.770 --> 01:21:53.289
looking for, you know, people who listen and give a cent.

1549
01:21:53.609 --> 01:21:56.199
He's looking for doers, people who will take the word

1550
01:21:56.239 --> 01:21:57.159
and put it into action.

1551
01:21:57.920 --> 01:21:58.180
Dr.

1552
01:21:58.199 --> 01:22:01.060
George Barna, the Director of Research at Arizona Christian University's

1553
01:22:01.100 --> 01:22:04.569
Cultural Research Center. author of Raising Spiritual Champions.

1554
01:22:04.609 --> 01:22:04.869
Dr.

1555
01:22:04.909 --> 01:22:07.210
George, as always, great to have you with us. Take care.

1556
01:22:07.250 --> 01:22:07.689
God bless.

1557
01:22:08.149 --> 01:22:08.569
Thanks, Bill.

1558
01:22:10.449 --> 01:22:13.430
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Hey, welcome back.

1626
01:26:12.640 --> 01:26:14.539
Bill Martinez here. Great to have you with us. And

1627
01:26:14.579 --> 01:26:17.220
we're going to be joined by Dr. Arfad Khan to

1628
01:26:17.260 --> 01:26:22.489
talk about, you know, the most common heart condition and

1629
01:26:22.590 --> 01:26:25.449
not to ignore an irregular heartbeat.

1630
01:26:25.989 --> 01:26:26.270
Dr.

1631
01:26:26.310 --> 01:26:27.989
Khan, welcome to the show. Good to have you with us.

1632
01:26:28.510 --> 01:26:29.430
Thank you for having me, Bill.

1633
01:26:29.970 --> 01:26:32.569
Well, we're going to talk about AFib. You know, a

1634
01:26:32.609 --> 01:26:35.739
lot of people are familiar with that term, atrial fibrillation.

1635
01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:39.159
It is the most common cardiac arrhythmia, also known as

1636
01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:41.930
an irregular heartbeat. It occurs when the upper chambers of

1637
01:26:41.949 --> 01:26:45.850
the heart beat in an uncontrolled manner. The condition is

1638
01:26:45.909 --> 01:26:49.710
currently on the rise, affecting more than 55 million people globally.

1639
01:26:50.029 --> 01:26:51.489
Why is it on the rise?

1640
01:26:52.760 --> 01:26:54.819
So thanks for having me on the show, Bill. So AFib,

1641
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:57.399
as you mentioned, is a very common heart rhythm disorder.

1642
01:26:57.859 --> 01:26:59.939
The top chambers of the heart start to beat erratically.

1643
01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:03.380
It's on the rise with over 55 million people globally

1644
01:27:03.439 --> 01:27:06.189
having the condition. And mainly it's on the rise because

1645
01:27:06.229 --> 01:27:08.529
of a variety of different risk factors that patients are developing.

1646
01:27:08.949 --> 01:27:13.329
We have an aging population. Patients are eating healthy. Patients

1647
01:27:13.369 --> 01:27:16.069
are becoming more overweight. These are all things or risk

1648
01:27:16.090 --> 01:27:18.710
factors that are trending and causing their incidence of AFib

1649
01:27:18.729 --> 01:27:19.229
to increase.

1650
01:27:20.649 --> 01:27:22.829
What about the symptoms? What should we be on the

1651
01:27:22.850 --> 01:27:23.369
lookout for?

1652
01:27:24.270 --> 01:27:26.569
So the symptoms can be a variety of different things.

1653
01:27:27.289 --> 01:27:32.810
Heart palpitations, feeling of heart skipping beats, fatigue, tiredness, feeling

1654
01:27:32.869 --> 01:27:38.329
short of breath, dizziness, difficulty in exercising. These can all

1655
01:27:38.369 --> 01:27:40.869
lead to symptoms that interfere with your daily life. And

1656
01:27:40.909 --> 01:27:43.720
if left untreated, it can actually lead to serious complications

1657
01:27:43.729 --> 01:27:46.619
such as heart failure or even having a stroke. So

1658
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:50.020
that's why early action and early intervention and treatment of

1659
01:27:50.100 --> 01:27:53.340
AFib is very important because AFib is a progressive condition.

1660
01:27:54.060 --> 01:27:56.640
The longer you wait to treat it, the more difficult

1661
01:27:56.680 --> 01:27:58.859
it becomes to get you back in normal rhythm. So

1662
01:27:58.930 --> 01:28:02.310
prompting early referral to a cardiac electrophysiologist, which is a

1663
01:28:02.510 --> 01:28:05.810
cardiologist that deals with the electrical issues of the heart,

1664
01:28:06.390 --> 01:28:09.189
has some special training in management of heart rhythm disorders,

1665
01:28:09.850 --> 01:28:13.770
is very important so that they can properly diagnose, manage,

1666
01:28:14.189 --> 01:28:15.270
and treat the condition.

1667
01:28:16.069 --> 01:28:16.449
Well, Dr.

1668
01:28:16.470 --> 01:28:20.670
Arfod Khan is a board-certified electrophysiologist, or EP. It's a

1669
01:28:20.729 --> 01:28:24.510
specialized cardiologist who focuses on the heart's electrical system, as

1670
01:28:24.550 --> 01:28:28.930
he was just mentioning. This is AFib Awareness Month, and Dr. Khan,

1671
01:28:28.949 --> 01:28:32.420
thank you so much for coming on to address these issues,

1672
01:28:32.479 --> 01:28:35.720
because left untreated, as you say, AFib can increase your

1673
01:28:35.760 --> 01:28:39.239
risk for serious complications, including Five times the risk of

1674
01:28:39.310 --> 01:28:39.890
heart failure?

1675
01:28:40.979 --> 01:28:41.760
That's absolutely right.

1676
01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:45.020
And patients that have heart failure, not getting a catheter

1677
01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:48.399
ablation procedure done for AFib can actually lead to decrease

1678
01:28:48.430 --> 01:28:51.210
in your longevity. So that's why it's very important to

1679
01:28:51.229 --> 01:28:52.710
seek treatment early for the condition.

1680
01:28:53.449 --> 01:28:57.510
Well, the other statistics include twice the risk of stroke,

1681
01:28:57.949 --> 01:29:00.829
twice the risk of sudden cardiac death And one and

1682
01:29:00.850 --> 01:29:05.130
a half times the risk of cognitive impairment or dementia.

1683
01:29:06.369 --> 01:29:10.710
I mean, clearly, you know, here it is. The warning signs,

1684
01:29:11.350 --> 01:29:12.770
you know, the caution is laid out.

1685
01:29:12.789 --> 01:29:13.149
And Dr.

1686
01:29:13.170 --> 01:29:15.569
Kahn, you're here to say, look, this is something that

1687
01:29:15.689 --> 01:29:20.779
needs to be treated seriously and with immediacy, right? Absolutely.

1688
01:29:20.819 --> 01:29:23.579
And like I said, because the importance of treating it

1689
01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:26.800
early is because it's a progressive condition. The longer you're

1690
01:29:26.819 --> 01:29:29.039
in atrial fibrillation, the more difficult it is to manage it.

1691
01:29:29.470 --> 01:29:31.649
they're more difficult to get you out of it. That's

1692
01:29:31.670 --> 01:29:35.050
why early intervention leads to actually improved outcomes and better

1693
01:29:35.069 --> 01:29:35.770
patient results.

1694
01:29:36.489 --> 01:29:38.810
Can you talk about the options for AFib?

1695
01:29:39.569 --> 01:29:43.770
So there are many treatment options available. Catheter ablation is

1696
01:29:43.789 --> 01:29:48.069
a safe, effective, minimally invasive procedure. And if you go

1697
01:29:48.109 --> 01:29:50.949
into the patient's heart and target the abnormal electrical signals,

1698
01:29:51.449 --> 01:29:55.109
helping restore the patient's heart back in normal rhythm. It's

1699
01:29:55.189 --> 01:29:58.409
a minimally invasive procedure. Many patients go home that same

1700
01:29:58.449 --> 01:30:01.649
day and are basically able to get back to the

1701
01:30:01.689 --> 01:30:04.409
normal activities within a week of after the procedure is completed.

1702
01:30:05.270 --> 01:30:08.590
In my practice, I use the CARDO mapping system, which

1703
01:30:08.649 --> 01:30:13.199
is basically a 3D advanced electroanatomical mapping system, which has

1704
01:30:13.239 --> 01:30:17.739
advanced technologies, which I'm able to, through that system, reconstruct

1705
01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:21.239
the patient's anatomy of their heart, and also helps me

1706
01:30:21.260 --> 01:30:24.659
localize where these faulty signals are coming from, allowing me

1707
01:30:24.680 --> 01:30:28.939
to tailor therapies individually for each specific patient, giving better

1708
01:30:28.979 --> 01:30:33.100
patient results and better outcomes. And again, you know, it's

1709
01:30:33.159 --> 01:30:36.880
very important to understand that 55 million people across the

1710
01:30:36.920 --> 01:30:41.119
globe are affected with atrial fibrillation, yet only 5% of

1711
01:30:41.180 --> 01:30:44.479
eligible patients that are eligible for a catheter ablation procedure

1712
01:30:44.819 --> 01:30:47.720
are actually getting it. So with September being AFib Awareness Month,

1713
01:30:47.739 --> 01:30:50.399
I think it's very important to increase the awareness in

1714
01:30:50.420 --> 01:30:54.119
the general population to seek treatment early and seek treatment

1715
01:30:54.140 --> 01:30:55.520
with an electrophysiologist for AFib.

1716
01:30:56.380 --> 01:30:56.699
Dr.

1717
01:30:56.739 --> 01:30:58.619
Khan, what drew you to this discipline?

1718
01:31:00.319 --> 01:31:03.800
You know, helping patients, helping people, I think is very gratifying.

1719
01:31:04.380 --> 01:31:06.239
And I think that's something that was instilled in me

1720
01:31:06.300 --> 01:31:08.659
early in my life. And there's no better way of

1721
01:31:08.680 --> 01:31:09.840
doing that than becoming a doctor.

1722
01:31:10.600 --> 01:31:14.810
Well, certainly, and I appreciate that. But, you know, for

1723
01:31:14.850 --> 01:31:18.470
you as a doctor, you've seen the, you know, the

1724
01:31:18.529 --> 01:31:21.289
innovation and the development, as you said, just what you

1725
01:31:21.310 --> 01:31:25.250
just explained so casually about mapping someone's heart.

1726
01:31:25.890 --> 01:31:26.149
I mean.

1727
01:31:26.729 --> 01:31:31.350
This is like decades of science and testing and everything

1728
01:31:31.369 --> 01:31:35.100
that's gone into this. I mean, this just has to

1729
01:31:35.140 --> 01:31:36.380
be so gratifying for you.

1730
01:31:37.079 --> 01:31:37.539
Oh, 100%.

1731
01:31:37.539 --> 01:31:40.039
You know, there's nothing more gratifying than having a patient

1732
01:31:40.060 --> 01:31:43.000
that comes into your office that is worried and scared

1733
01:31:43.060 --> 01:31:46.789
about this condition and giving them hope, giving them a plan,

1734
01:31:46.970 --> 01:31:49.630
you know, giving them confidence and putting their, you know,

1735
01:31:49.909 --> 01:31:52.829
concerns at ease and being able to provide a therapy

1736
01:31:52.850 --> 01:31:55.449
that can actually help them and get them back in

1737
01:31:55.489 --> 01:31:55.909
normal rhythm.

1738
01:31:56.789 --> 01:31:58.170
Well, we have a couple of minutes left here and

1739
01:31:58.210 --> 01:32:00.890
we've got to let you go reluctantly because I really

1740
01:32:00.909 --> 01:32:04.409
appreciate this. But I think it's good to summarize this

1741
01:32:04.430 --> 01:32:09.300
being AFib Awareness Month, the signs that we need to

1742
01:32:09.340 --> 01:32:12.399
be on the lookout for and that we need to

1743
01:32:12.539 --> 01:32:16.880
move with immediacy if any of these signs show up.

1744
01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:20.539
Go ahead and just let's review and summarize what we

1745
01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:21.979
just shared with the audience.

1746
01:32:22.840 --> 01:32:23.159
Yeah.

1747
01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:26.159
So in summary, AFib is a very common heart rhythm disorder.

1748
01:32:26.689 --> 01:32:30.500
If you have symptoms of fatigue, palpitations, symptoms that is

1749
01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:33.479
something different than you for outside of your normal routine,

1750
01:32:34.159 --> 01:32:37.340
seek care and seek care early with a cardiac electrophysiologist

1751
01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:39.699
because there are therapies out there. So there's a catheter

1752
01:32:39.720 --> 01:32:43.760
ablation procedure which can help correct the underlying condition. And

1753
01:32:43.859 --> 01:32:47.060
to learn more about the condition, Johnson & Johnson actually

1754
01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:51.520
has a very nice website called GetSmartAboutAFib.com in which you

1755
01:32:51.539 --> 01:32:53.899
can go on. There's a lot of patient educational videos.

1756
01:32:54.300 --> 01:32:57.329
There's patient testimonials. There's even a questionnaire that if you

1757
01:32:57.390 --> 01:32:59.350
fill out, if you have AFib, it will tell you

1758
01:32:59.369 --> 01:33:01.810
whether or not you're a candidate for a catheter ablation procedure.

1759
01:33:02.689 --> 01:33:03.590
Well, excellent.

1760
01:33:03.670 --> 01:33:03.930
Dr.

1761
01:33:03.970 --> 01:33:07.170
Khan, again, we're grateful for the time and the information

1762
01:33:07.189 --> 01:33:10.890
that you've shared with our audience. Stay well. Take care.

1763
01:33:11.489 --> 01:33:12.130
Thank you very much.

1764
01:33:12.430 --> 01:33:12.789
You got it.

1765
01:33:13.529 --> 01:33:16.649
Well, our thanks once again to Dr. Arafat Khan reminding

1766
01:33:16.710 --> 01:33:20.449
us not to ignore that irregular heartbeat. It's a common

1767
01:33:20.489 --> 01:33:24.840
heart condition, one of the world's most common heart conditions around. So,

1768
01:33:25.930 --> 01:33:28.029
You know, we just need to listen to what our

1769
01:33:28.090 --> 01:33:30.689
heart is trying to tell us, right? Hey, by the way,

1770
01:33:30.789 --> 01:33:35.350
you can download our show, Bill Martinez Live, on Apple

1771
01:33:35.489 --> 01:33:41.939
and Spotify, Amazon, anywhere that you download your podcast. All available,

1772
01:33:42.300 --> 01:33:46.340
Bill Martinez Live, on all these outlets so that you

1773
01:33:46.380 --> 01:33:50.000
can hear the show at your convenience. Anytime, even though

1774
01:33:50.039 --> 01:33:53.590
we air live from 9 to 11, Monday through Friday. Hey,

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01:33:53.819 --> 01:33:57.670
anytime possible. Anytime at night, anytime over the weekend, just

1776
01:33:57.770 --> 01:34:00.890
download and enjoy it to your heart's content. We've got

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more coming up right after this.

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Hey, we're.

1838
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Back with you. I'm Bill Martinez.

1839
01:38:07.550 --> 01:38:08.170
He's Dr.

1840
01:38:08.229 --> 01:38:10.010
Bonner Cohen. Bonner, how are you?

1841
01:38:10.609 --> 01:38:13.010
I'm doing very well, Bill, and I hope you and

1842
01:38:13.050 --> 01:38:14.090
our listeners are too.

1843
01:38:14.529 --> 01:38:17.399
Well, I'm sure they are. Bonner is the senior policy

1844
01:38:17.449 --> 01:38:20.460
analyst with the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow. And Bonner,

1845
01:38:20.460 --> 01:38:25.000
it looks like the Greens, you know, they just can't

1846
01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:28.159
go away. You know, they're like those cockroaches that just

1847
01:38:28.180 --> 01:38:29.500
keep on growing another head.

1848
01:38:30.579 --> 01:38:38.220
That's right. I think they recognize that at least for

1849
01:38:38.239 --> 01:38:42.130
a foreseeable future, the salad days have come and gone.

1850
01:38:42.789 --> 01:38:48.170
And the quick transition that they had envisioned the transition

1851
01:38:48.229 --> 01:38:54.500
from fossil fuels to quote-unquote clean energy. The pathway seemed

1852
01:38:54.699 --> 01:38:59.720
all set for that. The regulations were in place. The

1853
01:38:59.779 --> 01:39:04.380
subsidies had been duly handed out to eager recipients, and

1854
01:39:04.399 --> 01:39:07.060
it was just going to be a matter of time

1855
01:39:07.670 --> 01:39:11.869
before out went oil and natural gas, and in came

1856
01:39:12.250 --> 01:39:15.949
wind turbines and solar panels. Well, it turns out that

1857
01:39:15.970 --> 01:39:18.609
the world's a bit more complicated than that. There are

1858
01:39:18.789 --> 01:39:23.689
all sorts of problems associated with transition. In fact, I

1859
01:39:23.729 --> 01:39:29.579
think we can safely say that there is no transition whatsoever.

1860
01:39:30.699 --> 01:39:36.220
It is true that more wind energy And more solar

1861
01:39:36.340 --> 01:39:42.380
energy are being produced today than 5, 10, 15 years ago.

1862
01:39:42.850 --> 01:39:47.770
But it's not replacing fossil fuels or nuclear or hydro.

1863
01:39:48.189 --> 01:39:52.760
It's simply adding to it. But at the same time,

1864
01:39:52.899 --> 01:39:57.960
we are producing more fossil fuels than ever before, particularly

1865
01:39:58.140 --> 01:40:02.909
in the United States. And as a result, globally, fossil

1866
01:40:02.989 --> 01:40:09.569
fuels still account for already 86% of all the energy

1867
01:40:09.670 --> 01:40:14.350
that is produced. 86%. That's about the same as what

1868
01:40:14.390 --> 01:40:18.359
it was 30 years ago. And so nothing has changed.

1869
01:40:19.939 --> 01:40:23.090
And as we look around the world and we see

1870
01:40:23.510 --> 01:40:27.350
those parts of the world where the transition has quote

1871
01:40:27.390 --> 01:40:31.130
unquote taken place, what have been the results? Let's go

1872
01:40:31.170 --> 01:40:36.829
to Europe. Countries in European Union, including Britain in this case,

1873
01:40:38.069 --> 01:40:47.199
derive 34% of their electricity from wind and solar with

1874
01:40:47.279 --> 01:40:52.090
a result that Europe has far and away the highest

1875
01:40:52.239 --> 01:40:54.609
energy prices in the world.

1876
01:40:55.750 --> 01:40:59.250
And that's without ice and air conditioning, Bonner.

1877
01:40:59.369 --> 01:41:06.050
That's exactly right. Right. Per kilowatt hour, electricity costs three

1878
01:41:06.090 --> 01:41:09.350
times as much in Germany as it does in the

1879
01:41:09.449 --> 01:41:13.800
United States. And remember, the American figure is somewhat inflated

1880
01:41:14.220 --> 01:41:18.890
because you have places like California and New York and

1881
01:41:19.989 --> 01:41:23.369
Washington and Oregon and what have you that bumped that up.

1882
01:41:24.149 --> 01:41:26.850
If you were to compare that with, say, Texas or

1883
01:41:27.409 --> 01:41:32.369
Florida or Tennessee, it would be probably four times as much. Well,

1884
01:41:32.750 --> 01:41:39.850
the point is Europe's economy cannot compete globally. If the Europeans,

1885
01:41:39.949 --> 01:41:44.000
particularly in their manufacturing, are having to pay so much

1886
01:41:44.079 --> 01:41:52.329
for electricity, So they have been engaging in unilateral disarmament

1887
01:41:52.649 --> 01:41:58.380
through decarbonization, which actually translates to deindustrialization.

1888
01:41:58.760 --> 01:41:59.239
Exactly.

1889
01:41:59.520 --> 01:42:01.840
What are they going to do with AI? I mean,

1890
01:42:01.859 --> 01:42:04.359
they can't even really consider AI, can they?

1891
01:42:04.479 --> 01:42:10.090
No, they can't. They're being left out of the AI race.

1892
01:42:11.720 --> 01:42:16.399
Because putting a data center in Europe, where are you

1893
01:42:16.430 --> 01:42:20.329
going to get the electricity? So what I think this

1894
01:42:20.430 --> 01:42:24.369
is going to mean is Europe is going to have to,

1895
01:42:24.510 --> 01:42:27.489
to the extent that it uses AI at all, it's

1896
01:42:27.510 --> 01:42:30.449
going to have to piggyback on what is being done

1897
01:42:30.510 --> 01:42:38.529
in the United States and elsewhere, simply because they don't

1898
01:42:38.609 --> 01:42:42.670
have the electricity. that will enable them to have their

1899
01:42:42.890 --> 01:42:47.250
own access to artificial intelligence. And this is something they

1900
01:42:47.310 --> 01:42:50.010
haven't begun to come to terms with.

1901
01:42:50.109 --> 01:42:54.220
Well, and of course, they're, you know, they're hamstrung because

1902
01:42:54.270 --> 01:42:58.279
of their connection. And, you know, they're just so connected

1903
01:42:58.340 --> 01:43:01.939
to the European Union. Of course, Britain is not, but

1904
01:43:02.140 --> 01:43:05.750
all the other European nations are. And so this really

1905
01:43:05.890 --> 01:43:07.909
retards the process for them, doesn't it?

1906
01:43:08.310 --> 01:43:10.699
Yes, it does. And even though Britain is no longer

1907
01:43:10.939 --> 01:43:15.180
in the European Union, on its own, it has adopted

1908
01:43:15.279 --> 01:43:20.220
policies that differ very little from what is going on

1909
01:43:20.399 --> 01:43:24.539
on the continent, with the result that Britain's industries are

1910
01:43:24.739 --> 01:43:29.699
every bit as uncompetitive as those on the European continent,

1911
01:43:29.739 --> 01:43:33.050
be they in Germany and France or what have you.

1912
01:43:34.489 --> 01:43:38.369
Britain has now at long last decided, well, you know,

1913
01:43:38.909 --> 01:43:41.890
we may be able to use that North Sea oil

1914
01:43:42.130 --> 01:43:45.899
after all. So they have lifted some of the restrictions

1915
01:43:46.039 --> 01:43:48.300
on that and intend to go after that, not that

1916
01:43:48.340 --> 01:43:51.600
they should ever have abandoned it to begin with. But

1917
01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:57.310
at the same time, the green ideology has such a

1918
01:43:57.430 --> 01:44:05.750
grip on Britain but they're still putting up wind turbines.

1919
01:44:06.149 --> 01:44:10.569
They're still putting up solar panels. In other words, the

1920
01:44:11.569 --> 01:44:15.079
change there isn't going to be that much. As a result,

1921
01:44:15.439 --> 01:44:21.060
the continent is just becoming geopolitically and in terms of economically,

1922
01:44:21.159 --> 01:44:24.479
it's becoming more irrelevant with each passing day.

1923
01:44:25.289 --> 01:44:27.789
Well, and it's probably, you know, you think about this, Bonner,

1924
01:44:28.449 --> 01:44:31.229
it's probably why they're cheering on what's going on in

1925
01:44:31.289 --> 01:44:33.979
Iran right now, right? Because this favors them.

1926
01:44:35.739 --> 01:44:41.600
Yeah, it does in the short term. I think they're

1927
01:44:41.739 --> 01:44:45.470
ultimately going to have to come to terms, however, with

1928
01:44:45.590 --> 01:44:50.590
however Iran, the whole thing in Iran ends, if what

1929
01:44:50.609 --> 01:44:54.149
the Trump administration is now doing. instead of seeking some

1930
01:44:54.189 --> 01:44:58.550
sort of out-and-out military victory, which they fear will involve

1931
01:44:58.569 --> 01:45:01.550
putting boots on the ground. Nobody wants to do that

1932
01:45:01.670 --> 01:45:06.220
after the experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. But rather, you

1933
01:45:06.319 --> 01:45:11.739
can carry out a severe form of economic war against

1934
01:45:11.880 --> 01:45:14.380
Iran and bring them to their knees. Now, whether that

1935
01:45:14.420 --> 01:45:17.590
will happen or not, we'll see. And if it does,

1936
01:45:17.649 --> 01:45:20.069
how quickly? Will it be in three weeks or three years?

1937
01:45:20.329 --> 01:45:21.369
Nobody knows.

1938
01:45:21.949 --> 01:45:22.270
Right.

1939
01:45:23.670 --> 01:45:26.750
The other thing too, Bonner, I'm just thinking that in

1940
01:45:26.810 --> 01:45:30.670
terms of the pressure that they're putting on Iran, like

1941
01:45:30.689 --> 01:45:34.710
you said, we don't know how fast or how slow

1942
01:45:34.750 --> 01:45:39.909
this could take. You're dealing with a death cult. For them,

1943
01:45:40.109 --> 01:45:42.609
this is an issue of life and death, not to

1944
01:45:42.670 --> 01:45:49.470
mention some religious fervor that involves Islam as well. Because

1945
01:45:49.510 --> 01:45:53.289
they're believing that you know, they're holding out for their

1946
01:45:53.329 --> 01:45:56.989
Mahdi and they feel like where they are right now,

1947
01:45:57.949 --> 01:46:01.260
it is offering that opportunity for the Mahdi to come back.

1948
01:46:01.880 --> 01:46:03.640
And so till death do them part.

1949
01:46:04.699 --> 01:46:08.670
That's right. I mean, their goal right now against tremendous

1950
01:46:08.810 --> 01:46:14.130
odds against the U.S. is simply survival because there's really

1951
01:46:14.289 --> 01:46:20.859
no place for For the hundreds of thousands of IRGC people,

1952
01:46:22.119 --> 01:46:25.449
you talk about secret police, right? What have you? Where

1953
01:46:25.470 --> 01:46:27.569
are they going to go? They're not going to retire

1954
01:46:27.590 --> 01:46:32.850
to Florida or Texas or Tennessee. Some of them may

1955
01:46:32.970 --> 01:46:36.789
be able to escape to Russia, but there's probably an

1956
01:46:36.850 --> 01:46:40.409
upper limit in Russia, unless, of course, they're willing to

1957
01:46:40.449 --> 01:46:43.649
go to Ukraine and be used as cannon fodder there,

1958
01:46:44.390 --> 01:46:48.800
which has probably occurred to some Russian generals eager for manpower.

1959
01:46:49.819 --> 01:46:53.239
Outside of that, there's a real problem with these people.

1960
01:46:53.560 --> 01:46:57.930
They have no place to go. And the Arab states,

1961
01:46:57.970 --> 01:47:01.149
the Gulf Arab states, don't want them at all. Exactly.

1962
01:47:01.430 --> 01:47:03.569
Yeah. Any more than they want Hamas, right?

1963
01:47:04.529 --> 01:47:05.050
That's right.

1964
01:47:05.310 --> 01:47:09.899
Exactly. So they have real incentive to hang on as

1965
01:47:10.020 --> 01:47:13.159
long as they possibly can. They hope they can wait

1966
01:47:13.340 --> 01:47:17.739
out Trump. But that's something over which they don't have

1967
01:47:17.779 --> 01:47:21.810
that much control. If the economy completely collapses, a big if.

1968
01:47:21.890 --> 01:47:22.670
But if it does.

1969
01:47:24.439 --> 01:47:28.560
And absolutely nothing in Iran works. Who's to say what

1970
01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:32.300
will happen? We have seen these things happen before. When

1971
01:47:32.319 --> 01:47:37.489
the Shah's government collapsed 47 years ago, the same kind

1972
01:47:37.550 --> 01:47:40.649
of thing could happen there. What will follow it is

1973
01:47:40.750 --> 01:47:47.359
anyone's guess. But to be sure, we have seen for

1974
01:47:47.399 --> 01:47:52.119
the last time Iran's using of the Strait of Hormuz,

1975
01:47:52.539 --> 01:47:56.369
because the Gulf states are simply making, shall we say,

1976
01:47:56.409 --> 01:47:59.109
they're making other plans. They're going to get their oil.

1977
01:47:59.409 --> 01:48:02.529
They're going to send it out over pipelines. They're never

1978
01:48:02.649 --> 01:48:05.500
going to allow themselves to be put in a position

1979
01:48:06.020 --> 01:48:10.220
where they are dependent on the goodwill of whoever happens

1980
01:48:10.279 --> 01:48:13.800
to be in power in Tehran for the export of

1981
01:48:13.859 --> 01:48:15.199
their oil and natural gas.

1982
01:48:15.689 --> 01:48:17.460
Well, the other thing that America is doing, which I

1983
01:48:17.500 --> 01:48:20.560
think is prudent, and it's leadership by Donald Trump, Trump,

1984
01:48:20.979 --> 01:48:23.119
and that is that, you know, some people would just

1985
01:48:23.159 --> 01:48:25.319
go and just blow the holy what have you out

1986
01:48:25.359 --> 01:48:28.579
of Iran. And then you got a, you know, trillion

1987
01:48:28.619 --> 01:48:33.529
dollar price tag to rebuild. And Donald Trump is trying

1988
01:48:33.590 --> 01:48:37.130
to hold together as much as possible to the infrastructure

1989
01:48:37.149 --> 01:48:41.750
so that there's reasonable minimal damage that you can have

1990
01:48:42.289 --> 01:48:45.329
all things considered with all the targets that they've been doing.

1991
01:48:45.789 --> 01:48:49.710
But I think people, and this is something that they're

1992
01:48:49.750 --> 01:48:52.350
not reporting on. Of course, they're not going to, right?

1993
01:48:53.289 --> 01:48:55.510
Yeah, that's right. They don't want to walk into the

1994
01:48:55.550 --> 01:48:59.840
same situation that we found ourselves confronted with at the

1995
01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:03.479
end of World War II when we were the occupying

1996
01:49:03.529 --> 01:49:07.659
power in Japan and in Germany. And we were occupying

1997
01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:11.380
a lot of rubble. And that's not what we want.

1998
01:49:11.460 --> 01:49:13.100
We don't want to have to go back and do

1999
01:49:13.359 --> 01:49:16.390
all of that over again. So as you said, we

2000
01:49:16.430 --> 01:49:20.130
want to leave as much of the infrastructure there in

2001
01:49:20.189 --> 01:49:24.630
place as possible. No saturation bombing of residential areas or

2002
01:49:24.710 --> 01:49:27.250
anything like that. Because after all, these are the people

2003
01:49:27.289 --> 01:49:30.770
we want to liberate, not with our soldiers, but with

2004
01:49:31.350 --> 01:49:34.449
other forces that we think can be brought to bear

2005
01:49:35.289 --> 01:49:38.890
to rid that country and the world of the mullahs

2006
01:49:39.170 --> 01:49:42.010
in Tehran. Again, we don't know whether it's going to work,

2007
01:49:42.029 --> 01:49:44.909
but that is one of the reasons, while we're not

2008
01:49:45.189 --> 01:49:47.310
contrary to what Trump said, we're going to bomb the

2009
01:49:47.350 --> 01:49:49.439
hell out of them. We're going to bomb the hell

2010
01:49:49.520 --> 01:49:52.239
out of certain parts of the country, but big chunks

2011
01:49:52.319 --> 01:49:54.859
of it, we are leaving intact on purpose.

2012
01:49:55.359 --> 01:49:59.659
Well, hopefully this economic pressure, like you said, Bonner, is

2013
01:49:59.699 --> 01:50:03.229
something that can work effectively. you know, quickly. That would

2014
01:50:03.270 --> 01:50:05.960
be in the best interest, I believe, for all concerned.

2015
01:50:05.979 --> 01:50:06.600
We got to leave it there.

2016
01:50:07.020 --> 01:50:07.279
Dr.

2017
01:50:07.300 --> 01:50:09.699
Bonner Cohen, the Senior Policy Analyst for the Committee for

2018
01:50:09.729 --> 01:50:11.949
a Constructive Tomorrow. Thank you, Bonner. Take care.

2019
01:50:11.970 --> 01:50:12.970
Thank you, Bill.

2020
01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:18.060
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2021
01:50:18.329 --> 01:50:21.850
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2024
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