Update-Israel At War With Hamas, Is Hezbollah Next?

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.359
The topics and opinions express in the
following show are solely those of the hosts

2
00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.639
and their guests and not those of
W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates.

3
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.240
We make no recommendations or endorsements for
radio show programs, services, or

4
00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:14.199
products mentioned on air or on our
web. No liability explicit or implies shall

5
00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:18.000
be extended to W FOURCY Radio or
its employees are affiliates. Any questions or

6
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:21.719
comments should be directed to those show
hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY

7
00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:41.600
Radio. Well, good afternoon,
and welcome. This is the Bill Martinez

8
00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:47.039
Show as we give you an update
on israel Ed war with Hamas is hasblon

9
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:52.640
next join us as we update the
current situation in Israel with three critical perspectives

10
00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:57.320
from the military, social and cultural
angle, as well as political and the

11
00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:03.479
potential regional impact that this could have. We have three regressed guests today that

12
00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.680
include Greg Roman, who previously served
as the political advisor to the Deputy Foreign

13
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:14.280
Minister of Israel, worked for the
Israel Ministry of Defense, doctor Susan Michaels,

14
00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.519
who for more than thirty five years
his pioneered the development of the international

15
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:26.359
Christian Embassy Jerusalem in the United States
and around the world, and Dexter van

16
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.439
Ziel, who is the managing editor
of the Middle East FORIGN publication focused on

17
00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:36.680
Western Islamism. Prior to his current
position, Dexter worked at the Committee for

18
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:42.879
Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis
for over fifteen years, where he played

19
00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:51.959
a major role encountering misinformation broadcast into
Christian churches by Palestinian Christians and refuting anti

20
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:57.920
Semitic propaganda broadcasts by white nationalists and
their allies in the US. Dexter,

21
00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.000
welcome to the show. To have
you with us, certain thanks so much

22
00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:06.000
for having me. It's wonderful to
be here. Well, I appreciate the

23
00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:13.080
time here because there's I mean here
you are. You for many years managed

24
00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:19.319
misinformation and today in this information age, it is really in many ways kind

25
00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:28.639
of the Wild West all over again
between AI bots and other foreign interest You

26
00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:30.400
need to be careful, I say
you. I'm talking about the collective,

27
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:35.280
you, the corporate you of us
need to be careful in terms of the

28
00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.439
information that we're getting that we get
the whole truth and nothing but And Dexter,

29
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:43.199
I will tell you one of the
things that we stress on our show

30
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.439
with the audience is that you must
own your own knowledge. Yes, we're

31
00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:53.639
here. Hopefully it blesses you,
it enlarges your intelligent on what's happening there

32
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.680
in Israel or around the world.
But that don't just take our word for

33
00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:02.280
it, because this is the trap
that we've fallen into, I would say

34
00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:07.560
in the last decade, is that
we're being told what we should believe and

35
00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:12.879
that we should dispense of any kind
of critical thinking or follow up questions right

36
00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.680
right. And that's a very troublesome
thing. And the problem is, in

37
00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:22.759
many instances, people are generally been
trained over many decades to think ill of

38
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:27.080
Israel as a result of a lot
of the propaganda that's been spread on college

39
00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.840
campuses and also frankly by some of
the churches as well. And that was

40
00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:37.960
essentially my job for sixteen or so
years to counter that misinformation. But the

41
00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:44.039
narrative, the amazing thing was is
that ultimately the narrative that was broadcast time

42
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:51.080
and time and time again problematized Jewish
and Israeli self defense and basically gave license

43
00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:55.520
to Palestinian violence. And the thing
is is that the horrors of the attack

44
00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:01.280
that took place on Saturday. Have
stopped that, uh, that process a

45
00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:06.000
little bit, but it's now already
starting to kick in and it's simply amazing.

46
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:11.360
Well, it's hard to review because, like you said, UH,

47
00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:17.120
what we're dealing with is thousands of
years of narrative and propaganda generations in the

48
00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:23.639
madrasa, in these Arab madrasas where
these young kids are have been indoctrinated.

49
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.279
Uh, you know, and it's
interesting because we can see some parallel.

50
00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:31.319
Hopefully people are starting to see the
parallel that's occurring here in the United States.

51
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.360
The indoctrination. I mean that uh
that uh document that was signed by

52
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:43.360
the student groups in Stanford, for
example, uh, supporting Hamas and you're

53
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.240
thinking, wait a minute, how
can this how can this be at Stanford

54
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.639
University, one of the elite colleges
uh in the West, Uh, to

55
00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:57.639
support this kind of you know,
this, this kind of narrative. Uh.

56
00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.600
But this is something that Hamas and
the Palestinians have perfected, you know,

57
00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.959
over you know, thousands of years, and that is they know how

58
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:14.800
to position themselves as victims, and
that is their default position. They will

59
00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.720
continue to attack. But it's it's
hard. They're hard pressed, right,

60
00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:23.839
now because again the information age,
we have video of the of the horrific

61
00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:29.560
damage that they have perpetrated on israelis
right, right. But the interesting see,

62
00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:31.519
and this is what's happened, is
is that over the past few decades,

63
00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:39.279
the Palestinian leadership has essentially recruited a
bunch of young activists, sent them

64
00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.360
over to the West. A lot
of the times they go to colleges and

65
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.279
universities and they will promote a terrible
anti Israel narrative. And and the thing

66
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:53.040
is is that the leftists on college
campuses will basically legitimize any act of violence

67
00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:57.040
against Israel as if it is some
sort of representation of liberation, as if

68
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.879
it's an expressive liberation. And the
problem is is that the same narrative was

69
00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:05.920
broadcast into churches that generally, instead
of taking the Sermon on the Mount as

70
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:12.439
some sort of personal, uh,
you know, requirement, they turned tried

71
00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.519
to turn it into a political agenda. And they try to, you know,

72
00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:21.160
the temptation of political power, and
thought that Christian Christianity was a utopian

73
00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:26.959
faith that could promote, you know, create a utopia in the world.

74
00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.879
And they and they align themselves with
people who essentially wanted to destroy Israel.

75
00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:35.480
And the thing is is that one
of the things that I think we have

76
00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:41.800
to be careful about is now I
think people recognizing that Hamas needs to be

77
00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.600
destroyed, and that people who are
are knowledgeable about these things, and there's

78
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.120
going to be a very strong campaign
to stop that and to basically portray the

79
00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:59.920
Hamas is essentially an expression of Palestinian
victimhood exactly, and that is and the

80
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:05.759
that is really the wearisome thing.
And you know, you've probably read the

81
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:10.959
screw Tape letters by C. S. Lewis lactually probably read it many more

82
00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:15.839
times than I have. But I
think that we could probably rewrite that and

83
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:20.000
just you know, do it like
a second or third sequel to that based

84
00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:27.519
on the anti Israel propaganda that we've
seen in the US so far. And

85
00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:32.120
what they do is they problematized Israeli
self defense, give license to Palestinian violence,

86
00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:40.959
and that has real overall strategic impact
on the ability of the American people

87
00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:46.360
to think clearly about what's going on. And so that's the frightening thing.

88
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:51.040
Well, you know, we spoke
with the General mirror of VV former IDF

89
00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:58.360
general, and we spoke with him
on Monday Dexter, and he made us

90
00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:05.120
aware that because of the oppressive government
of Hamas there in the Gaza, many

91
00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.639
of the pal I mean hundreds of
thousands of Palestinians have left the Gaza.

92
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.399
They escaped through their southern border and
they've gone to Egypt. So, you

93
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.480
know, some of this needs to
be explained in such a way to where

94
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:22.639
it is factual. We got to
get it out of the realm of the

95
00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:28.240
emotional and understand that. You know, though they want to, you know,

96
00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.919
bring back the Palestinians into play here, it promotes a narrative. But

97
00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.759
then you've got to understand what the
Palestinians as a group, because of Yasser

98
00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:43.440
Arafat and the PLO, what they've
resisted time and again. They've been given

99
00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:48.360
opportunity to have land, they've refused
it, and their mantra remains the same,

100
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.120
and that is they don't want Israel
to exist anymore. Well, how

101
00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.440
do you negotiate with another party who
wants your demise? I mean, what

102
00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.559
are you negotiating for? You know, the funeral arrangements? Well, you

103
00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.960
see, now that's the interesting thing
is is that what has happened is is

104
00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:11.399
that you know, progressives in the
West and their allies and liberal Protestant churches

105
00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:16.600
have essentially promoted a notion that peace
can be pursued with people who have genocidal

106
00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.639
hostility towards the Israelis and towards the
Jewish people. And the thing that is

107
00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:26.799
very frightening is it Kaled Michal just
just recently called for it, essentially a

108
00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:33.879
jihad against you know, the West, on tomorrow, on Friday the thirteenth.

109
00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.399
And this is a terribly frightening thing. And one of the things that

110
00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.039
I'm worried about is that we have
Islamist institutions here in the United States,

111
00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:48.679
some of whom have received funding from
various government institutions, either on a local,

112
00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:54.600
state or federal level, who have
issued statements that have defended Hamas.

113
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.559
And so what we have is we
have institutions, nonprofit institutions here in the

114
00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.840
US taking full advantage of the rights
accorded to the money of the Constitution to

115
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:11.879
advocate for violent anti Semites jihadis.
And what they and when they when you

116
00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:16.279
confront them on it, they say, well that this is just justice.

117
00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:20.759
And the problem is is that there
are some people in the progressive community and

118
00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.919
the people who've embraced liberation theology,
who are willing to go along with it,

119
00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:30.440
despite the fact that this has all
the elements of a jeepa no question

120
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:33.039
is well, the other thing that
you have to remember, let's start from

121
00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.840
spot one, Dexter. The land
belongs to God. Okay, full stop.

122
00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:46.600
Okay. So if you have a
problem with the land that God has

123
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:52.799
dedicated and sanctified for you know,
his people, the children of Israel,

124
00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.440
then take it up with God.
And time and again, what has happened?

125
00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:03.639
This is what I mean. The
evidence is so empirical, Dexter that

126
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.000
every time, you know, even
when the United States, and we're reporting

127
00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.639
and reminding our audience of this the
other day, is that every time the

128
00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:16.000
United States gets involved and wants to
think it's a real estate agent on God's

129
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.519
behalf and tries to pursue a two
state solution. I don't know if you've

130
00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.960
monitored this or not, but within
forty eight hours time and again, when

131
00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:33.879
the United States interferes with God's foreign
policy and his land, you know,

132
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.639
incredibly America is hit with a natural
disaster. I mean to the tune,

133
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.840
I mean, when you go back
to George H. W. Bush and

134
00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:46.080
going forward and time and again,
whenever they've pushed a two state solution,

135
00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.600
America gets hit with a natural disaster. I think it's totally now close to

136
00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:58.799
a trillion dollars in you know,
in destruction and damage that has been done

137
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.120
on the United States. Think by
now the policy makers and the people in

138
00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.879
America would wake up to realize this
is God's land. Okay, So take

139
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.799
your opinion and your idea out of
here, because it is God's will that

140
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:16.879
will be done ultimately. And that
seems to be the case time and again,

141
00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.639
especially since I mean starting from nineteen
forty eight when Israel became a nation.

142
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.159
Again, when I tell people dexter, and I don't know if you

143
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.879
agree with this, but I've been
saying, you know, for a number

144
00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.559
of decades. Here is that when
that happened, you know, in terms

145
00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:37.480
of God's prophetic clock, the hour
hand of God's prophetic clock was set,

146
00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:43.399
and what's been passing since then are
minutes and seconds toward the final chapter of

147
00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.320
the Book of Revelations. The way
I think about it is is that the

148
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:54.320
Jewish people have embraced and pursued throughout
their history of transcendent purpose to essentially be

149
00:12:54.480 --> 00:13:01.919
a people of God and to basically
represent God's promises and and the the impact

150
00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.799
that God. And I'm speaking for
myself now, okay, and I am

151
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:11.399
a Roman Catholic, I just you
know. But and and what that means

152
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.919
is is and other people in other
community groups, what what Hamas has done

153
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.480
is exemplified another transcendent purpose, right, which is to destroy the Jewish people.

154
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.799
Okay. And the thing is is
that you may there and I'm going

155
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.879
to make an argument to my non
religious friends to say, look, you

156
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.440
don't have to accept the transcendent purpose
that the Jewish people have embraced. That

157
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.720
there then that their belief and and
insistence on living in the land that was

158
00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.120
given to them in the Old Testament. Okay. But the thing is is

159
00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:50.120
that that doesn't mean that you have
to work assiduously to deprive them of that

160
00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.320
to be a blessing on this planet. And the problem that I think we

161
00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:58.960
see is is that people have decided
that the one blessing that they can provide

162
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.240
to the world is to somehow stymy
the Jewish people in their fight for survival.

163
00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.919
And I honestly do not know where
that impulse comes from. Could very

164
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:13.840
well, be a certain amount of
envy and hostility over the toughness and the

165
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.320
transcendence that the Jewish people have been
manifested over the years. But what I

166
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.919
have seen over the course of my
life, and this is I'm speaking personally,

167
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:30.519
is is that the people who assail
Israel, they essentially they suffer terribly,

168
00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.279
okay, And the people who stand
with Israel, they you know,

169
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.159
well, it's it's biblical dexter right
there in Genesis. Look at I'm gonna

170
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.159
bless those who bless you. I'm
gonna curse those who curse you. That's

171
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.919
if you don't believe in God.
You see that process play itself out.

172
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:58.080
The people who blame the Jews for
their suffering end up basically squandering any opportunities

173
00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:03.080
they have to advance themsel elves in
a rational level. That's what the Palestinian

174
00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.159
leadership has done. Growing numbers of
Arabs and Muslims of the Middle East are

175
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.879
starting to say, you know what, We're done with this anti Israel stuff.

176
00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.279
The UAE signed on to the Abraham
Accords, and what do they do

177
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:20.559
after that? They asked Israel to
help them build a satellite so or you

178
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.519
know, a spacecraft to actually go
to Mars Okay, so all of a

179
00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:28.919
sudden they started to build for a
future for themselves that didn't have anything to

180
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:35.639
do with jew hatred. But the
Palestinians and in particular Hamas, they are

181
00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:41.919
not interested in that. They have
failed to wean themselves off of this hostility

182
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:46.799
towards the Jewish people. And the
problem is is that we have institutions here

183
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.200
in the United States that are aligning
themselves with the progressive left Islamist organizations who

184
00:15:52.200 --> 00:16:00.480
are essentially trying to promote another narrative
in which basically Israel is the you know,

185
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:04.159
the fly in the ointment of humanity
and the Jewish sovereignty is the worst

186
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.879
thing that's ever happened to anyone in
the Middle East. And the argument I

187
00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:12.039
make is maybe one hundred thousand people
have died as a result of the Arab

188
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:18.200
Israeli conflict since it began in the
nineteen forty eight, twelve to fourteen million

189
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:25.720
people have died in the state in
the region overall, and what you know,

190
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.360
between various Muslim countries and various Muslim
groups and Arab countries in the region

191
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:36.279
since then, why is it that
we continually focus on this conflict, and

192
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.960
a lot of it has to do
I think with this. You know,

193
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.039
I don't like talking about this demonic
impulse, but that's what it is.

194
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:49.200
And I think we have to physically
destroy Hamas to demonstrate that this agenda is

195
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:53.559
done. It's time to put it
away. And by that I mean that

196
00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:59.759
Hamas needs to be defeated militarily.
It's leaders either need to be killed in

197
00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:07.279
back prosecute or prosecuted for the war
crimes that they have perpetrated against civilians in

198
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.359
Israel and the crimes against humanity.
I mean, we're taught we're seeing charred

199
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:18.039
bodies of infants, okay, and
decapitated infants as well. And there was

200
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.759
a big argument, oh no,
they weren't decapitated. Well, honestly,

201
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:29.799
you know, when you start to
burn the corpses of your dead enemies,

202
00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.200
I'm not really interested in arguing with
people about whether or not those corpses were

203
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:40.519
decapitated. Afterward, it's just not
I'm done. And I think that this

204
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:45.680
is really the thing. After the
Saber and Chattilla massacre, it took place

205
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.480
in the nineteen eighties, the Israelis
who understood that their leaders may have had

206
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.079
some involvement with that or some complicity. They came out at the day of

207
00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:00.519
the four hundred thousand and they protested
against their leaders and said this is wrong,

208
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.319
we shouldn't have anything to do with
it. Where are those protests in

209
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.680
the Arab world? Where are they? Instead of seeing those protests, what

210
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.680
we see, particularly here in the
United States is organizations that are defending Hamas

211
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.759
okay, and some of these organizations
are geting funding from the United States government

212
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.519
or state and local governments. Right. Well, Dexter, you mentioned being

213
00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:27.200
Roman Catholic guys, well born and
raised, and I was grieved to hear

214
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:37.079
of the Pope's latest message and he
sided with the liberal left, and it

215
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.960
was very disappointing that the pope,
you know, of the Catholic Church would

216
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:49.079
make such a statement. I'm praying
for him. I'm praying that I am

217
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:55.000
actually church as well. And I
think one of the interesting things is that

218
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.720
there are a growing number of intellectuals
within the church that are starting to respectfully

219
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.880
and some of the things that Pope
Francis is saying, and so that'll be

220
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:08.880
interesting for people to watch. Well, Dexter, as we wrap things up

221
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.640
with you, I want to give
you an opportunity to summarize. I'm so

222
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:19.680
grateful that you've come on the show
to give this perspective and offer some sobriety

223
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.640
here because this is needed. And
what will happen? I mean the other

224
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:29.319
thing that needs to be considered in
the equation here and people forget how much

225
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:36.039
money Israel had poured in and gave
to Hamas in hopes that they would change

226
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:40.960
their evil ways. I mean,
we're talking millions upon millions of dollars here,

227
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.079
right And I think and now,
right now, I think the first

228
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.440
message of the recap is is that
Hamas needs to be defeated, It needs

229
00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.920
to be destroyed. Its leaders need
to know, be imprisoned and charged with,

230
00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.319
you know, primes against humanity.
And I think that the American people

231
00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.319
need to start taking very close look
at Islamist institutions in the United States that

232
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:08.640
support inside with Hamas exactly we're seeing. Just one last thing is that we

233
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:14.440
are starting to see the same elements
of demonization we've seen it, you know

234
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.279
since twenty fourteen being deployed against the
West. The same techniques used to delegitimize

235
00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:26.200
Israel are now being used against Western
democracies and it's a coalition of institutions,

236
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:33.119
Islamist institutions and far left from so
called progressive institutions, particularly on college campus.

237
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.279
And I might add to that,
Dexter, elected officials in Congress.

238
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.960
Ziel has been our guest. He's
the managing editor of the Middle East Foreign

239
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:48.920
Publication focus on Western Islamism. Dexter, thanks again for coming on. Thank

240
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.720
you, sir. Up. Next, we have doctor Susan Michaels, who

241
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:59.240
for more than thirty five years has
pioneered the development of the International Christian Embassy

242
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.039
Jerusalem in the United States and around
the world. Doctor Michael's, welcome to

243
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.799
the show. Good to have you
with us. Thank you. Bill's great

244
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.039
to be with you today. Well, your perspective is so needed here.

245
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.319
Help us put this. You know, all that we have been bombarded with

246
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:23.599
that has us all praying for the
piece of Jerusalem, has us all grieving,

247
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.240
you know, for Israel and the
Middle East in hopes that this does

248
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.920
not it does not degrade into a
regional conflict. Yes, well, that's

249
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.759
our prayer, and we are mobilizing
prayer all around the world for Israel right

250
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:47.039
now. Bill, our headquarters is
there in Jerusalem. We've been there since

251
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:52.440
nineteen our founding in nineteen eighty,
and over the last several years, we

252
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.640
have been very, very involved in
that area of the country, which is

253
00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:00.960
called the Gaza Envelope. We know
all the security official, all the community

254
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:07.720
leaders. We placed almost two hundred
bomb shelters in those communities with Christian funding

255
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:12.680
and as just a show of practical
assistance. And two days before the incursion,

256
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.319
we took six hundred Christians down there
to hold a solidarity rally and we

257
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:26.240
went to the community of Barry and
we began planting trees in order to help

258
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:32.160
build a security of trees and another
line of defense for them. And within

259
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.920
forty eight hours, that's exactly where
that first incursion took place, and they

260
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.200
came into the community of Barry and
just massacred people. And so this has

261
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:48.000
all affected our organization and our staff
really very much in the heart and we

262
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.000
are busy at work helping to evacuate
people, feed them, house them,

263
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:59.240
clothe them. We're putting out calls. We need equipment for the first responders

264
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:04.279
and for the urgency workers. And
so the whole nation of Israel right now

265
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:11.079
is in shock and in mourning,
and some of them are going from funeral

266
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.440
to funeral. A friend of mine
listed the funerals that he had attended,

267
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.039
all people he was connected to in
some way through his family, and it's

268
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:25.200
just heartbreaking. So we have to
cover the people of Israel in much prayer.

269
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:30.640
We need to help them with as
much practical assistance as possible, and

270
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.559
so we're there on the ground to
do that well. Secretary Anthony Blincoln today

271
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:40.279
reminded everybody that you know, for
us here in America, nine to eleven

272
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:44.720
still weighs heavy in our hearts.
And to put it in perspective, he

273
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.519
said, based on the population and
the size of Israel, we're talking ten

274
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.519
times the effect. That's right,
nine to eleven. I mean to think

275
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.119
about that. And as you say, here, you have friends, you

276
00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:02.400
know, going from one funeral to
the next, and in still so many

277
00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:08.920
other families in expectation of their loved
one that is missing. They don't know

278
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:14.160
for sure if they've been captured.
Some cases they do, So there's a

279
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:19.079
lot of not knowing that's adding to
the stress of these families. Yes,

280
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:27.440
and if you translate those numbers to
American percentages, it's over thirty thousand Americans

281
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.759
killed in a seventy two hour period, that's what they're going through there.

282
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.200
And these were not soldiers. I
mean, there were a few soldiers,

283
00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:44.160
but most of them were women and
children and elderly and innocent civilians. And

284
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.839
so the magnitude of this is just
it's unimaginable. Well, and what they

285
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.880
did, how they attacked the young
people there enjoying the festival. I mean,

286
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.839
this was the final day of celebration
of the joy of the Torah,

287
00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:03.839
right, and you had what two
hundred and sixty young people that were gunned

288
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.480
down, others that were captured,
and women that were raped. You see

289
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:14.119
the pictures there. I mean,
Susan, it's just it's beyond heartbreaking.

290
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:22.160
You don't have enough adjectives to express
the grief and discuss of something this horrific

291
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.960
that has been perpetrated upon a fellow
human being. Yeah, I mean,

292
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:33.640
this was not a military operation.
This was a murder spree of kill every

293
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.960
Jew we can find. And it's
vile. And to think that we have

294
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:45.279
people out in the streets in America
rallying on behalf of the Palestinians and this

295
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:51.480
and Hamas at this time, what
are they thinking? How can they come

296
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:57.000
out in support of a group that
carried out such a barbaric, gruesome attack.

297
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.319
It's beyond me. Well, the
narrative, doctor Michaels, that they've

298
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:11.079
been indoctrinated with is that, you
know, Israel are you know, they're

299
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:18.079
encroaching on their land, they have
partitioned their country, They've deprived them of

300
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:23.559
resources. And as I'd mentioned earlier, Israel has been you know, providing

301
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:30.200
money to Hamas, to the government, but typical of totalitarian governments, the

302
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.119
money went to the leadership, it
never went down to the people. Even

303
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:40.119
Palestinians were so oppressed and fed up
with it that you know, hundreds of

304
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:44.759
thousands have left the Gaza and escaped
to Egypt. That's how bad it is.

305
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.079
So it you know, yes,
there needs to be a balanced perspective

306
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.160
that there are. Even when I
went to Israel, there were Arabs coming

307
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:59.559
into Israel, working, contributing,
getting along, not a problem. But

308
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.599
then all all of a sudden you
started having the Intifadas breakout, and then

309
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.559
it put everybody on guard again,
and it was very disappointing, you know,

310
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:12.319
for those Arabs who came in and
participated in the culture of Israel,

311
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:18.680
and they even said they felt more
safe in areas controlled by Israel as opposed

312
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.680
to the areas that were controlled by
their Arab leaders in Palestinians. Sure,

313
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:29.400
absolutely, And there's just so many
that's just a perfect example of so much

314
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:34.720
of the facts and the truth that
don't make it out into the media.

315
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.079
And right now we're being bombarded by
groups the Palestinians are organizing in social media

316
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:48.359
and they are going to be bombarding
everyone with these anti Israel messaging And now

317
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:55.400
is the time for Israel's supporters to
begin to speak up and take a stand,

318
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:00.880
because our silence is going to just
let them run all over and before

319
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.839
you know it, our governments will
start being influenced by a totally false narrative

320
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:08.519
if we don't stop it. Well. And as you say, when Israel,

321
00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:12.480
you know, they're already at the
border and they're ready for a ground

322
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:18.240
offensive, and it's going to be
ugly. It's it's not going to be

323
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.759
a pretty thing because you're talking urban
warfare, and for anybody who's been in

324
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.599
the military, they know exactly what
that involves. That's a hand to hand

325
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:32.279
it's a very dangerous situation. It
is going to be ugly, and the

326
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.319
West is going to have a hard
time dealing with it. And this is

327
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:44.640
what's happened before. Is America will
start out in support of these egregious actions

328
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:49.400
of people like Hamas, and then
they get weak. And I pray that

329
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.880
our governments and you know, those
who are in the position to make decisions

330
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.839
on behalf of the American people that
they stand strong. Israel stand strong with

331
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:07.079
a commitment. As you said earlier, Hamas has got to And I know

332
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.920
that sounds harsh when you're talking about
what we're talking about are evil people here.

333
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.079
We're not talking about Arabs, We're
not talking about Palestinians. We're talking

334
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:21.759
about evil people who decided to go
in and rape, pillage and kill children,

335
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.559
lop off their heads, kill the
elderly, kill Holocaust victims who survived

336
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:33.599
the Holocaust but did not survive this. You know, this is such evil

337
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.039
that is yes, for the everyday
citizen, it's incomprehensible. But the fact

338
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.960
of the matter is is that that
is exactly what they have done. And

339
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.160
you need to decide if this is
something you can live with, right right,

340
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.519
Bill, And you know, we
work primarily with churches and the Christian

341
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.680
community here in the United States and
I'm telling you they're going to have to

342
00:29:55.720 --> 00:30:00.400
get tougher skin, and they're going
to have to really lies that. As

343
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.839
much as we hate war, we
all hate it. We hate killing,

344
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.039
we hate destruction, we hate what
is about to happen. But we're just

345
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:15.720
going to have to realize it has
to happen in order to eradicate this evil

346
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.440
in Gaza, which is called Hamas, and they happen to be the government

347
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:26.240
in Gaza. So we're going to
have to just get prepared and bear with

348
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.920
it and stand with Israel. Well, I would remind the pastors across the

349
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.319
country to revisit Ecclesiastes three, when
God very clearly speaks out that there is

350
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.880
a time for peace and a time
for war, and you need to know

351
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:47.200
the difference, because if you miss
those appointed times, these are appointed times

352
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:51.200
that happened. I mean, when
you think about here we are fifty years

353
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.759
to the date of the Young Kipper
War. Do you think that this has

354
00:30:53.799 --> 00:31:00.000
happened by just coincidence? You don't
believe that the hand of God was manifest

355
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.880
asked on this, I don't know
how you deny that, Susan. Yes,

356
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.599
well, it's a it's very spiritual
in its roots. This is an

357
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:14.519
evil spirit that in the Bible it
was called Amelek, and it was to

358
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:19.480
it was going to reappear every generation
and fight the people of God. And

359
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:26.039
we as Christians are armed to pray
and to put on the weapons of our

360
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.920
spiritual warfare. And that's why prayer
is so important at this time that we

361
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.119
can while Israel deals with this militarily, we need to deal with it in

362
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:40.480
with the power of prayer, right, you know, we need to come

363
00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.680
in in alignment with what God is
doing here. I mean, God is

364
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:48.400
handling this right, And so we
need to decide who you're going to serve.

365
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.480
Are you going to serve God or
are you going to serve the you

366
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.799
know, the spiritual powers of this
world. You know, I think to

367
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.960
me that's quite clear, since now
I don't know about you. Oh,

368
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:06.640
absolutely yes. It's a fight between
good and evil. And unfortunately, we

369
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.759
live in a time where the world
tries to call good what is evil,

370
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.880
and it tries to call evil what
is good. And so we are up

371
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:24.240
against a constant fight of words of
educating people to understand what really is the

372
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:32.000
good and what is the evil in
this situation and traditionally who have been the

373
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.440
holders of that which is good,
those that understand that which is good.

374
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.559
It's been the Church. This is
why the church, you know, and

375
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:45.799
God bless you, you know,
for your efforts to work with churches,

376
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.319
you know, across the country here
in the United States, because we know

377
00:32:50.680 --> 00:33:00.160
liberation philosophy and theology replacement theology.
There's a lot of antithical forces against the

378
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:04.720
truth of God. And I get
that, and we may have to be

379
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.400
just like the apostles that Jesus sent
out and said, look at if they'll

380
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:13.559
receive the message, give it to
them, stay with them, make the

381
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:20.440
most of the opportunity my interpretation,
okay. And conversely, if they're not

382
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.400
ready for the message, then you
move on. You just shake off the

383
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:27.279
dust of your feet. And this
may be the case with some churches that

384
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:32.200
they're so indoctrinated and so far away
from the truth of God that they can't

385
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:38.680
understand. But I believe that God
has maintained a remnant that can come together

386
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:44.359
in a definitive manner to make the
difference for a time like this. Susan.

387
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.680
Yeah, so much of our work
is education, because you have to

388
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:53.359
teach history, you have to teach
what the Bible says, and there's so

389
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.359
much to understanding this. But we
are calling for all those remnant churches,

390
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:01.920
for all those churches that get it, to take a special offering this weekend

391
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:07.920
and designate it for the relief work
there in Israel. We're asking them to

392
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:13.239
join us in prayer. The church
has got to stand up. Those that

393
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.559
get it and understand must take a
stand at this time. Well, doctor

394
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.760
Susan Michaels, as we wrap things
up with you again, I'm so grateful.

395
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:24.119
It's a privilege to have you on
the show. Where can people go

396
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:30.239
and find out more information about the
International Christian Embassy Jerusalem. Yes, our

397
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:37.599
website is ICEJUSA dot org. As
soon as they go to that homepage,

398
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:40.400
they'll see the Israeli Crises Fund.
They can click on it make a donation

399
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:45.039
to our relief work. My blog
is there that I've got over three hundred

400
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:51.840
articles on all these different subjects biblically
as well as politically about Israel. We

401
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:58.079
invite them to take advantage of our
resources and learn and arm themselves so that

402
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.400
they can make a response in this
day. Well, doctor Susan Michaels,

403
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.800
again, thank you so much for
being with us. Have a blessed day.

404
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:08.280
Thank you. Bill. Coming up
next, our next guest includes Greg

405
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:15.599
Roman, who previously served as the
political advisor to the Deputy Foreign Minister of

406
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:22.679
Israel and worked for the Israeli Ministry
of Defense. Greg Roman, welcome to

407
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:27.000
the show. Good to have you
with us, sir. He is not

408
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.920
in the green room yet, Okay, we're still waiting for him. Okay,

409
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.960
we expected him to be here about
this time. So you know,

410
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:42.920
Greg is instrumental here to this conversation
because of his military background and understanding of

411
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:51.360
militarily what Israel is facing here right
now and the dangers that are lurking ahead

412
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:58.159
as they are assembling at the border
there in the Gaza. And we'll see

413
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:05.559
what we can do. I'll tell
you if I'm speaking with rebel here right

414
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:10.920
now. Rebels are producer, most
excellent producer who keeps us out of trouble

415
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.880
here. And it seems like if
Greg's running into problem, Dexter says that

416
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:22.440
he's available to pinch hit. So
you know, if we want, listener,

417
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:27.119
let's go ahead and bring Dexter van
zielback. Dexter, thank you for

418
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.639
pinch hitting. I guess Greg has
been delayed a lot. So you get

419
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:37.760
to put on your military hard hat
and you know, let's talk about what's

420
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.000
next for Israel and the IDF as
they are assembling there at the border getting

421
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:50.039
ready for a ground incursion. Okay, what I have heard at this point

422
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:53.679
right now is that Israel has about
three hundred and sixty thousand ground troops on

423
00:36:54.039 --> 00:37:00.000
the separation beat area between it and
the Gaza Strip. And the problem is

424
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.039
is that if they go into Israel
to do a ground and courage and there's

425
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.440
going to be a tremendous amount of
difficulty associated with that because first of all,

426
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.079
it's a very built up environment and
they're going to be targeted with snipers

427
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.280
and it's going to be a very
very brutal fight. And another thing is

428
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:21.559
is that there's a well over one
hundred hostages somewhere held in the Gaza Strip

429
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.559
by Hamas. And that's one of
the things that I think is very horrifying

430
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:31.440
for the Israelis is that when they
have when they have hostages, that this

431
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:35.440
is one of the things that they
work very hard to basically, and they're

432
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:40.480
threatening dexter to kill a hostage for
every unannounced bombing that's taken place, and

433
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:46.519
I was looking at the daylight pictures
there in the Gaza and boil talk about

434
00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:50.559
a war zone. I mean,
they have already leveled a lot of buildings

435
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.880
there right. And one of the
interesting things is that if you go on

436
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:55.719
to Twitter, one of the things
that you will see is that there is

437
00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:01.519
footage of actually people leaving the buildings
after they've got warning from the IDF saying

438
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:05.840
that your building is going to be
targeted soon. And this is one of

439
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.280
the things that they have done throughout
there their wars with AMAS and the Gaza

440
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:14.079
strip. I think the interesting thing
at this point is is that I think

441
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:17.880
that the MOA lawn of MOA grass
strategy is done, and I think that

442
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:22.920
people know effectively at this point that
that strategy is not going to work.

443
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:24.920
And now that Greg is on,
or if Greg can be brought on,

444
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:30.639
I see Greg. I see Greg
popping on now. Dexter, thank you

445
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:36.079
so much for very welcome for backstopping
this situation. You know, but hey,

446
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.599
this is technology, right Greg.
But we can fight through it one

447
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:43.840
hundred percent, just like Israel can
fight through its inevitable goal to now destroy

448
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:49.239
the Hamastero organization, which is preparing
to do with an invasion of four divisions

449
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.480
on all two sides of the Gaza
strip that Israel controls along with naval forces,

450
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:58.119
and hopefully you want to talk about
a backstop the Egyptians cooperating with the

451
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:02.800
Humanitarian Corridor to allow house and refugees
to exit through the strips south if it

452
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.719
comes to that kind of situation,
at least temporarily. Well, greg we

453
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:15.199
heard from General Amir VV on Monday
that already hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have

454
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:21.199
recently moved out of the Gaza because
of the oppressive Hamas government. So,

455
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:28.239
you know, again some we need
to understand what is the universe of the

456
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:34.320
of the Gaza Hamas. You know, like any other area that's controlled by

457
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.199
an oppressive group, is a small
minority, a very strong and powerful minority

458
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:45.840
that has controlled controlled the Gaza.
So you've got a lot of people who

459
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.800
are just you know, kind of
like the Germans in World War Two.

460
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:52.679
They weren't Nazis, they were just
trying to keep their head down and survive.

461
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:58.159
Right. Well, I wouldn't say
that that's one hundred percent correct,

462
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.480
It's it's a little bit more nuanced
than that considering the fact that in poll

463
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:08.119
after poll, with Palestinians being asked
who they would prefer to be the political

464
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:15.440
party that represents their interests both internally
and also visa vi Israel, Hamas always

465
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.239
comes out on top. So when
you look at is that a compelled answer?

466
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.519
Though, Greg No, I don't
think so. I think that I

467
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:27.079
think that they have options. Yeah, the Palestinians, if you look at

468
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.840
the locus of their polities from the
West Bank point of view and also from

469
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:35.400
the Gaza point of view, between
two thousand and six and two thousand and

470
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.239
seven, it was really a crapshoot
was going to rule the Gaza strip.

471
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.840
This is the time period for the
two years before June of two thousand and

472
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:46.679
seven, when Hamas took power from
the Palestinian Authority, which has its headquarters

473
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.880
in Ramala, sitting in the West
Bank, to the east of the strip

474
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.639
and a little bit to the north. But if you look at that development

475
00:40:53.719 --> 00:41:00.320
from two thousand and six through October
seventh, this past say, there has

476
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:06.519
been a gradual generational evolution of Palestinian
political opinion and also a public opinion to

477
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.599
one in which Hamas has been able
to completely indoctrine and inculcate Palestinians living in

478
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:14.880
the Strip, or at least a
majority of Palestinians living in the Strip thinking

479
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:17.360
that Hamas is the only leadership that
they can trust. However, there is

480
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:22.400
also a significant minority of Palestinian political
opinion of those who just want to wake

481
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.239
up in the morning go to work. They have conservative values as it relates

482
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.519
in terms of a religious and maybe
either moral five fabric, but they would

483
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:36.599
like nothing better not to live under
Hamas and not to live under the Palestinian

484
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:40.880
authority, and to live their lives
like any other Arab would in any other

485
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:45.960
semi democratic or full democratic life.
If you look at the model for how

486
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:51.039
Arab Muslims and Arab Christians can live
in them Middle least, you only have

487
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.559
to look one meter over the border
in Israel. People voting rights, full

488
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:59.679
participation in the legal systems, full
of religious autonomy. They don't have that.

489
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.719
Hamas must be felled before there can
be an exploration of what happens with

490
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:07.400
the rest of the Palestinians in Gaza. Well, Greg, speaking of the

491
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.599
Palestinians, I mean going back to
Arafat. You know he made it well

492
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:15.360
known. I mean, it was
doctrinal that you didn't negotiate anything less than

493
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:20.679
one hundred percent for the Palestinians was
unacceptable. That it was all about,

494
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:27.480
you know, the erasure of Israel
full stop. So what are you negotiating.

495
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:30.400
You're just negotiating a funeral, you
know for Israel. I mean,

496
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.920
it's untenable. And this is why
this two states solution would never work.

497
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:42.679
And I think that Donald Trump was
wise to go around ignore the Palestinians and

498
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.400
go directly and talk with, you
know, for the Arab nations. And

499
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:51.280
they were close to signing that Abrahamic
peace deal, the abraham A Cords.

500
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.320
It's like Clausewit said, at least
in the Palestinian context, instead of war

501
00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:00.039
being the continuation of politics by other
means, negotiations and Arafat's case was the

502
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:04.519
continuation of war by other means.
So if you really want to look at

503
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:08.079
it ninety three, Israel had an
opportunity prior to Oslo, at the Madrid

504
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:14.119
Peace Conference that George Bush, the
first President George Bush hosted with James Baker,

505
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:19.079
to perhaps negotiate a piece which would
have been with Palestinians who emanated from

506
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.000
the West Bank and Gaza. But
then when Clinton came in, he decided

507
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:28.039
to go with this thirty year peace
processing between ninety three and twenty twenty three,

508
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.559
which led to something like eighty different
rounds of negotiations with all different kinds

509
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:36.000
of names that are all different kind
of peace czars and peace necks and White

510
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:40.360
House signing ceremonies that put Israel into
the position where it got to this past

511
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.880
Saturday. But it wasn't just the
Israelis who participated in the Palestinian the PLO.

512
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:51.719
The Palestine Liberation Organization did as well. HAMAS has always been clear though

513
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.760
about its position, which is to
destroy Israel and the Jewish people living in

514
00:43:54.800 --> 00:44:00.559
it, and the fact that American
administrations may have labeled them as a foreign

515
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:07.199
terror organization, but at the same
time allowed US Agency for International Development money

516
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.719
to go into Gaza when they knew
that HAMAS would touch it, to give

517
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:15.360
UNRA, a UN agency who works
hand in hand with HAMAS, openly seven

518
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:20.880
hundred million dollars under this administration alone
after President Trump froze that funding exactly means

519
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:27.800
that they thought they could accept a
deconfliction scenario without recognizing the hateful, genocidal

520
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.920
at the cleansing based ideology that Hamas
has always purported, and they were duped

521
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.039
as much as the Israeli as we're
thinking that Hamas had an interest in governing

522
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:39.280
rather than killing Jews. Well,
I think after all is said and done,

523
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.320
I think that Israel can look in
the mirror and say, hey,

524
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.599
we did the best we could.
I think, you know, for all

525
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.800
these years and the money that they
invested, they themselves millions of dollars invested

526
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:53.440
into the Gaza in supporting you know, the Hamas government. But look what

527
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:59.159
they got in return. You know, you got a return of evil for

528
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.280
good, and the Bible's real clear
that that's not good. No, And

529
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.679
I think that there will be a
time to reconcile open accounts on the ways

530
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:13.920
in which the Israeli Ministry or Defense, the Defense forces and the government handled

531
00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:17.599
not just under the Netanyahu government,
but since two thousand and five when Ariel

532
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:22.559
Sharon decided to unilaterally, oh the
idea of out there. There's something like

533
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:27.840
eight or nine different Israeli governments that
had a hand in getting to the situation

534
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:34.679
where it came to on Saturday,
across four or five different premierships. So

535
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.079
just as much as Hamas was preparing
for this invasion, for this pagra,

536
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:45.000
for this mini holocaust which took place
on Saturday. There will have to be

537
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:49.679
a reconciliation of sorts on the Israeli
side. But the first Israeli priority,

538
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:55.280
first and foremost is to destroy the
hamastera organization, annihilate any individual who is

539
00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.719
associated with the organization. Not just
sitting in Gaza. We're talking about Doha

540
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:04.519
and Qatar, where the attack was
planned. In appropect, We're talking about

541
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.280
their interest office in Tehran and Iran. We're talking about Istanbul, Turkey.

542
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:12.400
Two of those countries, one Katar, a non NATO major ally, and

543
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.960
the second Turkey, a NATO ally
of the United States, openly flaunt their

544
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:20.960
relationship with Hamas fund them to the
tune of billions of dollars a year divided

545
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:25.800
between the three countries that I mentioned
before. And twenty four Americans that we

546
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.840
know of right now were killed by
this organization. It's more than it's more

547
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.039
than the American sailors that were killed
in the USS coal attack, and our

548
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:38.800
response to that was Tomahawk missiles on
Osama bin Laden's bases in Afghanistan. I

549
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:44.920
hope that the US is preparing a
similar response with Hamas well, and you

550
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:47.840
know, Iran's a clear involvement with
this. There's no way, I mean,

551
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:52.920
the experts will tell you there is
no way that Hamas could have executed

552
00:46:52.079 --> 00:47:00.199
a land, air and sea event
like this attack like this without the the

553
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:02.639
backing of Iran. Well, we
know about the back of the Iran.

554
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:07.880
If you go to our website emmyforum
dot org, you'll see an article from

555
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:14.280
the summer of twenty twenty two written
by Jonathan Schanzer called Hamas in Tehran the

556
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:19.239
backdrop, what's the relationship between Hamas's
starting in nineteen eighty eight all the way

557
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:22.199
through twenty twenty two. And then
you'll also see another article there called the

558
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:28.280
Hamas Israel Backgrounder, which gives you
tube perspectives, what's the Iran Hamas relationship

559
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.599
and what's the Israel Hamas relationship and
how did we get to the point where

560
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:36.639
we were a year ago? Just
this last July, we held a hearing

561
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:42.599
in the Kanesse, Israel's parliament with
eight members of Kanesse, ministers, members

562
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:45.719
of Israeli civil society, the military, where we called for the disarmament of

563
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:51.199
Hamas, where you thought maybe they
could maintain a police force. Four months

564
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:53.840
ago we called for this in terms
of israel victory over that we were wrong.

565
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:59.079
We should have been calling for the
elimination of the organization because we didn't

566
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:04.000
know. They don't think Ben Israelis
really thought that Hamas had the augur to

567
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:07.320
go this far, but they didn't, and now it has to be dealt

568
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:08.760
with. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean even to the point that

569
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:15.440
they had what planning models right there
and they saw them, but they really

570
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.159
didn't take them as a warning that
it should have been. Greg We've got

571
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.599
about two and a half minutes left
and I wanted to give an idea to

572
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:29.159
summarize. Also, let's talk about
the potential Hesbalah has been I think biten

573
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.880
at the bit to get involved here
and add another front to this war.

574
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:37.440
What do you think. I think
that Hesbela is in a different situation politically

575
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:40.800
because they have to contend with Sunny
Maronite and Jeru's minority groups all in the

576
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:45.920
same country in Lebanon. If they
do get involved the way that Iran sis

577
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:52.760
Hesbela is as the strategic deterrent against
and Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear facilities Iran

578
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.360
would like to activate activate hesbel Law
in the instance that the Israelis attack Iran's

579
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:01.000
nuclear program. However, the change
of anti tank guide, a missile fire,

580
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:07.119
the exchange of drones, limited rocket
attacks coming from Lebanon all are a

581
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:12.440
symbol of might. Poor tend to
be the opening of a front from the

582
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:15.840
north, and I think that Hesbela
would be better off not getting involved.

583
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:20.079
The thing that's different about this versus
two thousand and six, the last time

584
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.079
Israel and Hesbelo went to work against
one another is there's two US battlegroups,

585
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:28.400
carrier battle groups sitting off the coast
of the eastern Mediterranean, which I think

586
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:31.599
and I've never been one to advocate
for American intervention in Israel's wars, but

587
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:35.599
in the fact that some of the
Americans were killed in the Gazes, tracing

588
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:38.960
the fact that the US now it's
a strategic interest in re establishing deterrence and

589
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:45.440
maybe getting a faith a complete over
one of the listed foreign terror organizations,

590
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.760
very much like the Timil Tigers were
taken out a generation to go. This

591
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:52.639
is the time to tackle, not
just to mass but if it comes to

592
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:57.159
it, hasblah She and militias in
Syria, Iraq and in Yemen, and

593
00:49:57.320 --> 00:50:00.719
maybe the Grand prize, if you
will, which is Iran and its nuclear

594
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:02.920
program. But I was going to
go to far I don't want to go

595
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:10.599
too far. Clearly, it's inevitable. And in order to reach the bunkers

596
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.840
where the nuclear operation is, it
would require and we've known this for a

597
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:21.280
long time, it would require the
bunk the bunker busting bombs of the US

598
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:25.519
to aid in Israel's efforts to eradicate
that right, correct, And there's other

599
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:30.079
technologies that are not spoken about that
can do the same thing from the inside.

600
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:34.119
Well, Greg, I cannot thank
you enough for coming on. Remind

601
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:37.000
people where they can go for more
information. The two places you can follow

602
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:42.039
us or at meforum dot org,
m e f O r U M dot

603
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.880
org or on Twitter at em four
should I say X at me forum.

604
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:50.599
Well, Greg, again, we
thank you so much for coming on the

605
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.320
show and bringing us up to date
on all things Israel. Look forward to

606
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:58.360
staying in touch and continuing the conversation
with you. Thank you very much.

607
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:02.599
Take care, God bless Greg Roman, who previously served as the political advisor

608
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:10.079
to the Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel
and worked for the Israeli Defense. Our

609
00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:16.679
gratitude to our three guests for coming
on today to give us an update on

610
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:23.119
what is going on there at the
Gaza in Israel. Our thanks to Greg

611
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:30.280
Roman, doctor Susan Michaels, and
Dexter van Ziel for more information than To

612
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:34.480
be a part of this mighty movement
to return to God and save our country,

613
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:37.480
go to Bill Martinez Show dot com. May God bless you and keep

614
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.599
you, and make his face shine
upon you. May He be gracious unto

615
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:44.880
you and give you peace. Go
and have a great day. Thank you

616
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.480
so much for being with us.