Aug. 21, 2025

The Bill Martinez Show 08 21 25

The Bill Martinez Show 08 21 25
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The Bill Martinez Show 08 21 25
Transcript
WEBVTT

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Are you ready?

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Yeah, Okay, let's do it.

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Ill Martinez Live a program about current events, our culture,

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our values, our politics, and our future.

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And now Bill Martinez.

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Well, good morning America. Six minutes after the top of

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the are Bill Martinez here with Mike O'Neill in, the

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Assistant General counsel of Landmark Legal. Good morning, Michael. How

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are you.

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I'm great, Billy, Good to be with you.

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Hey, what's going on with our country man? We've got

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Confederacy rising here? What's going on? You got Michelle wou

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in Boston just saying, hey, I don't believe in your

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stinking rules and your constitution. Maryel Bowser, you've got Illinois,

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of course. Gavin Newsom continues in a various number of

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other you know, elected officials, congressmen, and senators still in

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the same way. It's like they have no respect and

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I got they don't respect Donald Trump as President of

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the United States. They have no respect for the office

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of the presidency. And when you put it all together,

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it's like they have no respect for the American people

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or the constitution that a majority of the Americans still

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say that that's our document, we believe in that.

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What's going on they certainly don't have any respect for

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the rule of law. I mean and when it when

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it when in terms of these sanctuary cities, if you're

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going to be if you're going to somehow make your bones,

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and I think that that's indicative of what we're talking

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about here is a lot of these politicians in these

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blue in these deep blue jurisdictions, Boston mayor California governor.

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They feel like if they want to raise their public

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profile and somehow can't become the you know, they caused

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a celeb of the Democrat Party for the moment. They

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they believe that, oh, I know what I'm going to do.

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I'm going to stand up to Donald Trump. And their

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view is so warped of the president they you know,

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it's funny. I've Bill, I've struggled with this a lot

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over the years, the conclusion and trying to see what

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they see the world through their eyes, and I've left

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with this conclusion that they sincerely believe that folks who

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Donald Trump, Americans, red Americans, Conservatives, Republicans, are Nazis, are fascists.

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I can't believe I'm saying this. I can't believe that

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there's a contingency of our people. And again I'm gonna,

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I'm gonna, I'm gonna confess I believe it's a very

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narrow contingency. I believe it's a very small slice, but

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as a radical slice with a strong voice that sincerely.

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Been strong, strong voice backed by the legacy media all

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the years the FBI intelligence community that we're finding out

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about this has been going on. I mean, since the

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Obama years, we have been pelted with this kind of

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propaganda as any wonder. I mean, we're kind of getting

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just a little microcosm taste of what Israel has to

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deal with with the Arab nation, with their Arab neighbors.

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How these people there in their neighborhood, how they're indoctrinated

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and are anti Zionists. Well, you know, you've got anti

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Americans that have now been created within our within our borders,

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within our own country, within our populace, exactly.

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Within our populace. And again I reluctant to say this

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because I don't want to come to this lightly and

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I've really given it a lot of thought, but I believe,

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I believe these folks, in their heart of hearts, believe

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that we are And I might say we because you

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know that's part of it. I mean that we are Nazis.

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I mean they throw this word around and it's just

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terrible fascist Nazis. And what happens when you're in that position,

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what happens when you believe that you believe that anything

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is justified, right, any kind of resistance is justified. Throw

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away the Constitution. Now, Gavin Newsom is an interesting point

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you raise Gavin Newsom. Clearly, what he's been doing in

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the past few days is designed he's taking a page

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out of Donald Trump's playbook, right, He's engaging in these

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these tweets he's trying to he's trying to mimic the

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tweets of Donald Trump. If you look at his tweets,

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they're basically kind of Trump ask, Right. So he believes

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that the way to get to the position where he

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wants to get into, in the position of clearly where

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he wants to be is the Democrat nominee for president

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in twenty twenty eight, let's just be very clear. So

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he's engaging in all this histeronics and it's working with

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that narrow constituency of people who believe that Donald Trump

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is a Nazi, that the Conservative Conservatives are Nazi Republicans

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are Nazis, and it works in that world. Of course,

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it's not going to fly in the greater world. I'm

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loath to believe that any that there's going to be

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any kind of traction that Gavin Newsom would have with

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regular Americans, with Americans who actually understand how our country

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functions and works. But for right now, it's doing it similar.

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Well, especially Mike. When they look at his legacy, they

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look at his track record. I mean, anybody to hire

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somebody for any job, what do they do, They look

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at your past work experience? Right, what did you do

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at your past job? Tell me about your successes. I mean,

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this guy is a train wreck. And now how do

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you take his legacy and what he's done to California?

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How do you take it to the other forty nine

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states and say, hey, don't you want to be just

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like California?

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Right? But absolutely, I think from a national and from

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a general election perspective, that is absolutely applicable. However, I

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don't think it's necessarily applicable for securing the Democrat nomination

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for president. Look at Kamala Harris, I mean, what did

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she ever she at Coama.

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Well, she didn't. She she was designated, she didn't earn,

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she didn't earn the nomination.

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Joe Biden, What did Joe Biden ever accomplish? Joe Biden

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was a middleing backbench senator from Delaware for years and

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then he managed to back into the vice presidency because

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he was he was the right color, the right age,

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and was perceived as a working collar of working But you're.

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Pointing something out here, Mike, and I hope the audience

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is capturing here, and that is that you see these

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last couple of selectees when they didn't go through the process,

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they were appointed James Coburn basically, uh, he appointed Joe Biden, right,

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and so that's what gave him in. And then Biden

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appoints Harris and so the Democratic Party has not even

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gone through a constitutional process democratic candidates, right, The Democrat Party.

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Has not gone through a Democrat democratic process to like

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and well, I'll keep going back though, I mean, think

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about this, what did Barack Obama accomplish when before he

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got the nomination he accomplished nothing. He was a community organizer,

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a state senator and then a one term senator for

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Illinois who did nothing who had done nothing in his life. Right,

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there was no, there was no. It wasn't like George H. W. Bush,

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or even George W. Bush, who obviously was a governor

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of a big state. But George H. W. Bush think

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about that, and so or Bill Clinton. Mean, at least

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Bill Clinton had been a governor, I mean a governor

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of Arkansas, but whatever, a governor. But it's funny though,

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So I think what Gavin Newsom's immediate goal is when

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you look at it, it's like, Okay, I get this,

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I get the Democrat nomination, and.

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Then you know, and then I.

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Worried about all the rest of the stuff afterwards. Similarly,

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you know, these folks back to your original point, Bill,

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is they want to get themselves. They want to raise

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their profile. And the best way to rose their profile

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with the legacy media, with the radical left, with the

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powers that be in the Democrat Party is to engage

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in this historyonics I'm standing up to Donald Trump, and

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so you see the governor of Boston declaring her city

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a sanctuary, saying now, now, the question is, what is

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the response. Well, my answer is simple, arrest them. Yeah,

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you know, if you're gonna make your if you're going

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to if you're going to if you're going to abet

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the the the the breaking of federal laws and you're

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doing that, if you're going to if you're going to

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facilitate illegal immigration, or if you're going to if you're

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going to hinder or obstruct federal authorities from carrying out

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their duly their legal uh, their legal requirements, and that

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is to enforce the law, enforce our nation's immigration laws.

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If you're going to hinder that or obstruct that, then

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you are obstructing law enforcement. You should be arrested. I

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wouldn't hesitate for a second to arrest any of these.

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Again, but they're going to say, my First Amendment right, Mike,

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I have a person right.

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And there's there's a difference between First Amendment right and obstruction.

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And if you are obstructing, if you're if you're out there,

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if you're facilitating uh illegal immigration, if you are protecting

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individuals who are breaking the law, you are obstructing justice,

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and you are exposing and you have exposed yourself. Now, wait,

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they might be prepared to do that. They might think that, Okay,

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I'm gonna get a badge of honor, I'm going to

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go to prison, well, guess what when the when the

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rubber meets the roads and you face a federal indictment

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and you face actual prison time and consequences for your actions.

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See how see how much you want to stand up?

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I would have no, And I don't think I think

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that I just read this morning before I came on.

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I think there's the mayor of what is it, Newark

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or something like that is poison to get arrested or

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has been arrested, So there's precedent. And I don't think

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the Justice Department is going to countenance any any of

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this nonsense. And amen, they shouldn't. If you're going to

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be if you're going to defy the laws of this country,

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you're going to be held accountable for your for defining

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those laws. And these are legitimate laws. These are laws

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on the books that the President has plenary authority enforce

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our nation's immigration laws. And if you break those laws,

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you should be subjected to the consequences for breaking those laws.

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I don't love them.

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You're exactly right, And Mike, this is what's angering the

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majority of Americans is people are getting away with this stuff.

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And the thing is what happens, and we've been talking

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about this the last couple of weeks, and this is

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you know, you think about it. Consequences are always there.

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The question who's going to pay that consequence? All right?

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Is it? Is it the person who broke the law

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or is it the people who follow the law. They

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have to carry the burden because California wants to give

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a driver's license to somebody who can't speak the language

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and they let him behind a multi will you know,

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transport vehicle that kills people, right, you know? So who

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pays that consequence? But we the people got to go

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to quick break. We've got more from Mike O'Neil after

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We're back when you're right now, just about nineteen minutes

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after the top they are. He's the assistant General counsel

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at Landmark Legal and Mike, I want you to respond

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to what I'd finished up with, and that is the

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point of consequence. You know, America, the American citizen has

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been paying the consequence for open borders, not the people

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that decided to leave the border open and cause this

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inordinate amount of expense and death and crime in this country.

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We're carrying the burden, you know, families are paying the

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price of lost loved ones and everything. And I think

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this is why all this is coming to a head,

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and even at you know, with all that's being exposed

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in our government, what Barack Obama and his minions and

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you know, I mean you're talking high level you know,

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officials in our government participating in a coup here. There

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has to be a consequence because the people have paid

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that consequence up to now. Hillary's lying up political uh

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political opposition piece that went rampant and infected our government

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and the transition of power and uh, you know, impacted

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four years of the Trump administration. And we could go

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on and on about the impact that the millions of

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dollars had cost in legal investigations and Hillary Clinton and

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her foundation having written one check to you know, pay

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back any of that money.

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Right.

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You touched on two points, Bill. I think the first

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thing you were talking about briefly is immigration and the

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effects of illegal immigration. And clearly we've seen we've seen

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that and it just was encapsulated just recently this week,

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as you said, the the tractor trailer of the individual

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who had some sort of certification. As I always understood,

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you had to have some sort of certification and some

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sort of class in order to drive one of those

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semi trucks. I mean, yes, went anybody behind the wheels

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of those trucks, you have to have something. But yet

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I don't. I don't understand how this individual was allowed

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to be behind the wheel of a of a huge

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eighteen wheel tractor trailer and be put put himself in

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a position where lives were lost. And what's really tragic

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about this? I mean it's it's obviously a very tragic scenario,

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but it didn't appear that the individual even seemed to care.

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Oh my gosh, Yes, there was.

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An accident and the guy was barely affected. And you say, okay,

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so who are we bringing into our country who has

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no concept of the of the causality of their actions

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and is in a position to, hey, if a tragedy happens,

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are you gonna actually be be affected by it? I mean, goodness, gracious.

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So what was heartening to see is again you can

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always count and this is amazing. Again, I sound fandom

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for the Trump administration, but you can count on the

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administration to act on these things. Sean Duffy, who's the secretary.

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I can't even believe I know that the Secretary of

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Transportation's name, but I do, right, because this is these

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people are active working to help America. And so we

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know the name of the Secretary of Transportation. We knew

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Pete Buddha Judge because he was a disaster, right, but

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we know the Secretary of Transportation today is a guy

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named Sean Duffy. And this is a guy who tweeted

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about this and said, I'm gonna get to the bottom

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of this. I'm gonna work on this. So you have

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accountability in the government. In the federal government at least obviously,

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the states are a different level who are actually doing

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something to fix America, which is refreshing after as you said,

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after eight years of Obama, four years of Joe Biden.

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You actually see people in positions of authority that are

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trying to work to improve the American way of life

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and to improve America, which is very great, which is good.

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And the other thing is Mike as an adjunct to that,

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that's important to people that the voters understand that this

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is why Trump the Republicans, right, the people that are wanting,

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there desiring and are out there making a difference. Sean

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Duffy and Christy Nome and Pam Bondi and the rest

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of the team, Yes, exactly, they're they're doing the people's work.

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But then you go and you deal with activist judges

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that are putting a stick in the spokes of our

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wheels of trying to get this country back on track.

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And so you know, you've got to be mindful of

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who you're putting into office. I mean, even Hakeem Jeffries,

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what was his statement he didn't talk about when he

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was when I'm Speaker of the House. Here's my great

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idea and a wonderful passion that I have for the

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American people. He says, I'm going after Christy Nome.

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Right, That's that's pleasing. That's a fantastic point. Where have

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you ever heard from the Democrats lately and the left,

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the radical Marxist how they're going to work to improve

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I remember think back to February when Donald Trump gave

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that speech in front of Congress. He was talking about

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a golden age for America. He was laying out a

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definitive vision of what he wants America to be. He

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recognizes the fact that we are a great nation and

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we have a potential for even more greatness, and he

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wants to put us on the track to ensure that America,

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America is a wonderful, amazing place to live in. And

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clearly he's and not only America, let's be let's be

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Frank built the world. Yeah, look at the end, voting

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peace furthermore, and now also drugs he's hitting. I mean,

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where does it. It's like it never stops, the things

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that they're trying to do to fix America. We're just

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hearing now today about the deployment of marine expeditionary units

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into the Caribbean to combat the fentanyl trafficking from Venezuela.

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They've designated trend of Arragua as A as a narco

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trafficking Maduro regime as a narco terrorist state, so they're

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taking steps they recognize and this is something I've been God,

385
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I've been screaming about it for years. Fenton, all fence

386
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and all fenceinyl kills thousands of Americans every year. Why

387
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aren't we doing anything. Will you see this administration doing

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something to try to fix America? And you talked about

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the multiple tiers of justice. I want to touch it

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on that great point he made for a second ago,

391
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and clearly the American people see this, They're like, wait

392
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.400
a minute, how do these people get away with functioning

393
00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.960
as a coupe? How did Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Brennan,

394
00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:39.119
James Clapp or comey, how did this ilk get away

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with orchestrating this in this Russia collusion hoax and perpetuating Well,

396
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.200
guess what those people are going to be held to

397
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.759
account too. You see that there's there's a strike force

398
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.160
that's been designated, that there's that Grand juries are in

399
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.119
panel that are going to investigate this. So there is

400
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.119
a concern it now. Ultimately, whether you're going to see

401
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.000
trials or jail time branding these people remains to be seen.

402
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But at least you see the steps being made this

403
00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:03.440
administration to try to hold these individuals to account for

404
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:06.680
the terrible, terrible scandal that they perpetrated on the American

405
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.000
people for We're talking starting in sixteen, going all the

406
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way up through the Biden presidency, So this is a

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years and years to destroy Donald Well.

408
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Well, and it continues to this day because of the

409
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.319
point you made earlier, the rhetoric that has been deposited

410
00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.599
into people. I mean, you've got a new generation of

411
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.079
young people that all they've heard is America is bad,

412
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Orange Man bad. They've vert everything negative that they could possibly.

413
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I mean it's like, it's like, why didn't we just

414
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send them to a Muslim school and indoctrinate him on

415
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:37.519
how they should hate Israel.

416
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.200
Yeah, that's our school. And Well again, and I talked

417
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about this, It's almost that we were a point of

418
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.240
it's always darkest before the dawn, right, I think back

419
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.480
on this and we were at a point and I

420
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.000
think what you're seeing now, especially with the rise of

421
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.119
a lot of collegiate students in gen Z, now we've

422
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.680
turned a corner. And I'm a little bit optimistic about

423
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.119
this Bill. I see that you see this is a

424
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.240
silly thing, but you see the TikTok video, the sorority

425
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.480
TikTok videos. They're immensely patriot but yeah, they are what

426
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.480
they're but they're patriotic. Right, there's patriotic. There's the blowback

427
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.079
of the of the of the Sydney Sweeney Geens. You see. Also,

428
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.400
here's another one. This is a great one. You see

429
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.880
a number of of there's between nineteen and twenty four,

430
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.160
the number of people who believe in God has tripled.

431
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It went from sixteen percent to forty nine percent amongst

432
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.319
young people. You see the more people. I'm Catholic, So

433
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.960
you see more people coming. Adult conversions as the highest

434
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.960
in twenty years. So I see this reinvigoration of conservative

435
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.920
America that people were just fed up with it. I

436
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.240
know that there's we have young people working in my office.

437
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.240
I know that there's generations of these people who are

438
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.720
just fed up with that in to sit in these

439
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.440
classrooms and listen to this nonsense. Look at the level

440
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:54.559
of acceptance and applications into Southern schools, SEC schools, right,

441
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:59.079
how Clemson, Auburn, these schools are becoming increasingly competitive. It

442
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.599
was I think just just again roughly speaking, you had

443
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.079
Auburn University four or five years ago, would take accept

444
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.000
Their acceptance rate was like seventy percent or seventy five percent.

445
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:10.799
Now their acceptance rate is like forty five percent, right,

446
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.079
forty percent. So you see young people moving back to

447
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.279
what's America. And I'm heartened by this. I think the

448
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.480
millennial is their loss, but gen Z, I think there's

449
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a lot of hope on the horizon.

450
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.279
Well, they realized, and I'm with you on that. In fact,

451
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did you know the number one religion last year that

452
00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:27.480
grew there was only one?

453
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Was it Christianity?

454
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:29.880
Catholic?

455
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Catholic? Right right? Yeah, Catholic.

456
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You know, these kids are coming back. And that's why

457
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I keep telling the Catholic Church. You know, you got

458
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kids coming and you've got to be prepared. And they

459
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want the truth. They want to know what they can count.

460
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They've been lied to for so long, and and they're

461
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looking to the Catholic Church in bigger numbers right now.

462
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So don't lose that opportunity and speaking, you know, you

463
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:56.519
talk about people's faith. I don't know if you've heard

464
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:01.079
about this young girl. They're at First Liberty as a senior.

465
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You get a parking space, right, and you get to

466
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.880
decorate your parking space. Well, she wanted to put a

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00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.640
religious verse on her parking space, and the skull goes, ah,

468
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you can't, you can't do that. So get ready for more,

469
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:20.480
you know, more pushback on that again, because you know,

470
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:24.319
we think that we're beyond religious persecution. But no, it's

471
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:25.880
it's going to continue.

472
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.240
Yeah, it is going to continue. But again, I think

473
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.279
I harken back to things that I'm generally like to

474
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.519
be optimistic rather than pessimistic. And and I do I

475
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:40.319
really think that that that's it's.

476
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:40.839
Just the.

477
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.519
America. The young people in America are just tired of

478
00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:49.880
the crap, wocused nonsense. Now, obviously you're going to have

479
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:52.559
strings of them that it's just lost cause, but I

480
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.640
think a large segment, if not a majority, of them

481
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.359
are just fed up with wocism, fed up with just

482
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:02.480
being fed this nonsense, and they're ready to just embrace

483
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:04.640
what's made America great in the past and what will

484
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.880
continue to make America great in the future. And again,

485
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.759
just a note for Catholicism is don't lose sight of

486
00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:13.079
the fact that what brought you here. It's not wokeism.

487
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:18.079
It's not this mamby pamby rainbow, welcome everybody, come in.

488
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.400
It's it's faith. It's first principles. That's what people are

489
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.240
longing to hear and see, and that's what brings them

490
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.279
back to the church. And that's what the Catholic Church

491
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.400
needs to continues. I'd like to think they do that,

492
00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:31.200
especially the new pope. I think we're going to be

493
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.599
welcome with that. But I think that we've turned a corner.

494
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.519
I really do. I think that the Trump presidency is

495
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.079
representing a turnover corner. I think America is going to

496
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.599
continue to be on a path of improving rather than degrading.

497
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:48.960
Well at the I guess at the tip of all this,

498
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:53.400
we can thank God because God has placed He's placed

499
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:58.000
in all of us, you know, a conscience and an

500
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:01.680
understanding as much as you can hands, some sort of

501
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.559
compass about good and evil. And the kids are tapping

502
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:10.119
into that, and they've done it just because they see

503
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:14.319
what's happening by their own experience and observation. They want

504
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:16.319
to know. Just like most of us, we want to

505
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.519
do what works. We want to do what's productive. And

506
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.200
for so long, because of DEI and all these other

507
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.880
you know, philosophies that have been out there, they're proven

508
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.119
to be illegitimate. And what do you go, Like you said,

509
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.279
you return to first principles, those things that connect you

510
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.319
with your north star, that are connected to God himself

511
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:40.440
and to me. I thank God that we were able

512
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.480
to make that turn because without God, I truly believe

513
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:46.440
we'd have had Kamala Harris.

514
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.759
Yeah, and again that's me as well. I Mean, I'm

515
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.200
a rational human being, but I believe there's some divine

516
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:57.000
intervention on that day in Pennsylvania. I mean, how can

517
00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.839
you not believe that? Right? How could it not believe

518
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.319
at that moment he turned his head right? And I

519
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.359
think and I think this is I think interestingly, I

520
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:07.039
think this has affected him and I kind of have

521
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.519
you saw there was a little rumination. Donald Trump was

522
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:12.680
talking about God and what he's trying to do to

523
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:14.359
go to heaven. You know, we all. I mean I

524
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.200
kind of was like, okay, Grace, but uh, understand where

525
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.319
he is in a totem pole. Yay, I'm trying to

526
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.880
work to get to get to heaven. I don't know

527
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.799
where I stand. That demonstrated a little bit of humility,

528
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.039
and I think that was kind of an interesting, uh

529
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:27.319
interesting perspective.

530
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.200
And you would think that people around him, Mike, who

531
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.559
are Christians could be able to speak and say, Okay,

532
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.640
you've got some awareness here, but let me tell you,

533
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.319
it doesn't matter what you do. Jesus already did it.

534
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:42.200
Yeah, exactly.

535
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.680
That's it. So it's it's Jesus and nothing else, mister Trump,

536
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:50.200
and you can rest in that and and go on

537
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.359
with your life and do what God has called you

538
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.559
to do for this time, for a time such as this,

539
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.960
as as the Book of Esther would tell us. Right.

540
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.400
Yeah, And I think we're and I think that since

541
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.359
you see sincere effort, and I think this is a

542
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.599
distinct I mean, I'll con see it's a distinct from

543
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:10.960
the first term. And I again, I think as you say,

544
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.359
there's some change, there's some change, but it's also having

545
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:16.839
better people around you. That's clearly a point. But there's

546
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.039
distinct effort. I mean we don't have I mean we can.

547
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.119
He can sit on his hands and let the Ukraine

548
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:23.880
thing just go on and go on and go on,

549
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.519
like Biden did. I mean America's security interests. I mean,

550
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.240
obviously there's a bigger issue of Russia aggression, et cetera

551
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.039
like that. But he could continue to do this. But

552
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.119
you see, the distinct effort to try to make peace

553
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:39.160
in a major conflict in the globe is that has

554
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.240
engulfed us for now three and a half four years.

555
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:43.759
That is, in golf in Europe, in Eastern Europe, and

556
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:47.160
I'm guardedly optimistic they're going to be able to get

557
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.680
something done there. I mean, the actions what happened on

558
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.519
Friday were amazing, the visuals with Putin, and then what

559
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.079
happened again earlier this week with believes in the White

560
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:59.920
House certainly certainly an amazing amazing.

561
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.519
They were saying that normally like a G six or

562
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.480
G seven event, it takes years to orchestrate that Donald

563
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.359
Trump did it over a weekend.

564
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.799
Right exactly. It's it's incredible. And I don't think this

565
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.920
was another interesting thing, And I think the President might

566
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:14.880
have said this. I don't think there'd been that many

567
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.039
world leaders in the White House at one time in

568
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.160
he said, like seventeen ninety eight. I don't know, but

569
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.000
I can't remember ever seeing that many European world leaders

570
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.079
sitting around a table in the East Room of the

571
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:28.599
White House.

572
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.839
Certainly not in the modern era, no way.

573
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.599
Having the press, you know, fire stuff, and having them

574
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:36.400
each give us, you know, give a little speech and

575
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.279
seeing the real time dynamics of the personalities at play

576
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.759
was fascinating to me. And you know, it's funny. It's

577
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:47.240
like I defy somebody who is who has tds Trump

578
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.359
drangement syndrome. I'm like, I want to say, tell me

579
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:52.519
how that's bad. Tell me how what Donald Trump was

580
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.400
doing earlier this week with trying to make a piece

581
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.079
in Ukraine and Russia and bringing in the European leaders.

582
00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.519
Tell me that, how that's bad? And yeah, you get

583
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:02.559
spin the ridiculous nonsense, But I think that emperor has

584
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.279
no clothes in that context. So to summarize, you know,

585
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.079
to kind of put a point on this, it's just

586
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.960
in every front you see these people working their butts

587
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.000
off to try to help our America, and I think

588
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.319
there has to be some credit where credit is due.

589
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.559
And even even I think, honestly I believe this, the

590
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.039
vast majority of the American people see that. Right. We

591
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:24.720
hear from these and we were talking about this. We

592
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:27.839
hear from this narrow segment of lunatics who try to

593
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:30.039
spin things out, who will never be convinced, as you said,

594
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:36.839
Gavin Newsom, Michelle wou Or Boston governor or Boston folks,

595
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.839
who will never ever ever change their mind. They're just lunatics.

596
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:42.720
They're gone, they're lost. But I think the overwhelming of

597
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.079
the majority of the people see this and say Okay,

598
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:47.680
this resonates. These people are really working to try to

599
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:48.599
make America great.

600
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.640
Yeah, without a doubt. Amen, leave it there for now

601
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.200
to be continued. Mike O'Neil, the Assistant General counsel of

602
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:57.079
Landmark Legal, Thank you, Michael, take care of guts.

603
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:02.559
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Nutrition for Patriots, We're back with you.

677
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.279
Bill Martinez here. Great to have you with us. When

678
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.920
we got doctor Wilfrid Riley, the professor hot on the

679
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.840
campus after the first day of school, he survived. I

680
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.679
think that's what you need. You need a T shirt.

681
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.679
I survived the first day of school. Well, what do

682
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:18.079
you think.

683
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.280
I actually have one of those coaching polos that says

684
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.039
something like thorough ten. I help the kids move in

685
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:26.800
and that's one of our campaigns for the year. We're

686
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.320
going to teach them ten basic things like business communication.

687
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.079
So it was a good seeing the incoming students. A

688
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:35.079
couple of colleges had to move into the same day.

689
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:39.039
Well good, good fun. Well, of course, meanwhile, as you're

690
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:42.679
doing all that, the world goes on and a lot

691
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.559
of eyes focused on Russia Ukraine. I tell you one thing,

692
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:49.599
and that's not being talked a lot about. But was

693
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.840
real touching for me was the letter that Milania Trump

694
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:58.239
had Donald Trump President give to Putin at the Alaskan Summit,

695
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.719
which I thought was just in credible. Let me read

696
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.599
this to you and get your reaction, she wrote. Every

697
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:08.519
child shares the same quiet dreams in their heart, whether

698
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.719
born randomly into a nation's rustic countryside or a magnificent

699
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:19.519
city center. They dream of love, possibility, and safety from danger,

700
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.239
a simple yet profound concept. Mister Putin as I'm sure

701
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.800
you agree, is that each generation's descendants begin their lives

702
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.360
with a purity, an innocent which stands above geography, government

703
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.199
and ideology. In protecting the innocence of these children, you

704
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:42.400
will do more than serve Russia alone. You serve humanity itself.

705
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:46.800
Such a bold idea transcends all human division, and you,

706
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:50.559
mister Putin, are fit to implement this vision with a

707
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.559
stroke of the pen today it is time, she concludes.

708
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:58.599
Yeah, I mean, it is a moving letter from the

709
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:01.719
first lady. I think that obviously, one of the reasons

710
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:06.039
that people object to war is that it does unavoidably

711
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.360
kill innocent people. And I mean, as an adult, there

712
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.440
are practical considerations there, like if you are the leader

713
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:15.159
of another country, I mean, are those deaths and your

714
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.960
opponent more important to you than protecting your own people,

715
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:18.840
gaining land?

716
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:19.199
So on?

717
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.280
And in practice most people don't think so. But there

718
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.519
has to be a pain involved. I mean, I've read

719
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.119
some of the things Roosevelt and Eisenhower said about dropping

720
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.360
the bomb in Japan. Truman, you know you think about that.

721
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.199
It wakes you up in the morning. And I'm sure

722
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:35.199
that Trump, I'm sure even Putin feels that way.

723
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:35.400
Now.

724
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.159
Now the question is, of course, will will these kind

725
00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:40.639
of messages which the Russian Orthodox Church is also as

726
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:43.400
I understand, conveyed to Russia and Ukraine, are those going

727
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.519
to stop the conflict on the ground, which has been

728
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.199
dead locked on the same the same line for almost

729
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.239
a year. I don't know. I'd like to see the

730
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.320
war end. I mean, the question is what you've got

731
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.199
is I understand in eastern Ukraine is a heavily Russian

732
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.920
speaking population, that's you Krainian territory. They have a right

733
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.480
to it. But Putin's argument is that he also has

734
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.280
a historical claim to it and also that he controls

735
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.559
it now. So I mean, any resolution to the war

736
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.719
would probably be that land being split to some extent,

737
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:18.079
and the Ukrainians don't want to do that. The Russians

738
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.599
would prefer to keep trying to advance. So hopefully Trump

739
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.760
and the negotiating team will be able to talk them through.

740
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.840
Yeah, it's going to be a tough deal, especially the

741
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.559
Donbass area. A lot of people don't understand is that

742
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:33.679
area is key to the defenses of Ukraine, and of

743
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.320
course that's an area that's kind of the jewel that

744
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.400
Russia is licking it chops over because if it was

745
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:42.719
to acquire that piece of land, I mean, that's a

746
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:47.599
launchpad right straight into the interior of Ukraine. And you know,

747
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.679
and you can't blame Ukraine for not trusting Putin to

748
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.280
think that he's going to stop there any more than

749
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.599
any more than Putin can trust Ukraine, because there is

750
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:01.079
a history of encroachment on these de Marque lines, right.

751
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:05.639
I mean, all of these countries in deep Eastern Europe

752
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:08.079
and kind of mittel Europa have been fighting each other

753
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.880
for a very long time. I mean I actually listened

754
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:12.960
to Putin's interview with Tucker Carlson and I made a

755
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:14.440
bit of a joke about it on Twitter. But I

756
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.119
mean it's like, you know, after the Mongol king Voladigrad,

757
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:22.199
the fleet left, the left the land. You know, this atrocity,

758
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.679
the Ukraine attempted to found itself the first time, like

759
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:27.559
Putin really went through the history of these are our

760
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:31.199
conflicts with Ukraine, poland Lithuania. I mean, they've all been

761
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:33.880
there for a very long time. And that's something you

762
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.480
remember when you go to Europe, when you go to

763
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.679
most regions of the world, I mean you'll see buildings

764
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.800
that are two thousand years old. I mean, if you

765
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:44.119
go to the Middle East, there you can see the

766
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:47.519
street Jesus walk down. So I think as Americans we

767
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:50.960
have trouble kind of understanding that where that hostility is

768
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.480
coming from. Of course, the Ukrainians don't trust Putin. Putin

769
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.519
I think, would like to expand the land base controlled

770
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.519
by Russia almost at an imperial direction. But he's also

771
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:04.199
not just just attacking totally random. And again the question

772
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.360
is can you can you work can you work it out?

773
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.320
Can you get something out of that? I think in

774
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:11.360
practice you'll just end up dividing the land area, but

775
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.159
that's going to be heavily resisted for maybe another year.

776
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.000
Well, like anything, there's consequences, and you know I've been

777
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:23.960
sharing with my audience is that consequences always happen. It's

778
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:27.679
who's going to pay those consequences. You know, I've likened

779
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:32.000
it today with you know, our generation, the baby boomer generation,

780
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:35.159
the way we raised our kids. We coddled our kids

781
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.679
in such a way that we kept them from feeling

782
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.559
the full brunt of the consequences. And then guess who

783
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.599
paid it? You know, the parents paid for it. The

784
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.519
rest of the family paid for it because you had

785
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:51.239
some rambunctious radical kid that decided he wanted to be

786
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.920
on his own trajectory at the expense of everybody else. Well,

787
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.639
play that out, you know, amongst nations, and when you

788
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:04.519
get you know, you get Putin invading Ukraine. Okay, there's consequences.

789
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:06.880
The very thing that you didn't want to happen is

790
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:09.880
going to happen. Now you got the European nations who

791
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:13.920
have now increased their ante in the game from zero

792
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:17.199
to maybe one two percent. Now they're five percent. They're

793
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.119
all in, and they're going to keep an eye and

794
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.440
they have a vested interest in the security of Ukraine.

795
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.679
Now you know, those are just some of the minor,

796
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.039
unintended I think major unintended consequences that Putin will have

797
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.519
to realize, don't you think, Yeah.

798
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:36.800
I mean that's something that can also be negotiated. I mean,

799
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:40.199
so if Ukraine gives up territory, one of the things

800
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.440
that Ukraine's going to have to get in return is

801
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.679
some guarantee of protection. And that could be a number

802
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:48.599
of different things. I mean, that could be Americans working

803
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.519
in large numbers, and maybe the fossil fuel industry there,

804
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:54.440
so that Putin understands it's a red flag for the

805
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.519
USA if you come in. That could be a guarantee

806
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.599
from the European Union if Russia comes more than X

807
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:02.639
number of miles inside the border. And I'm kind of

808
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:05.159
spitballing these but Europe, you.

809
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:08.480
Know, you're right. But Trump talked about minerals. You know,

810
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.159
here we've got what two hundred and fIF three hundred

811
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:15.480
and fifty billion dollars invested in this war, and uh,

812
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.320
and so and there's no you know, there's no signatory,

813
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.639
there's no payment plan to pay us back. And Trump,

814
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.119
silly him, you know, the only president to say, hey,

815
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.400
maybe we can recoup some of those dollars with some

816
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.440
minerals and food and things that we can do. And

817
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.440
and to your point, yes, then you get America in

818
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:39.159
there in uh, you know, protecting its investment to get

819
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.079
you know, paid off. And that holds the line. The

820
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.800
other thing is is that for Ukraine. I guess you know,

821
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.079
for some people in Ukraine, they go, well, can we

822
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:51.199
trust America because America we trusted them and we gave

823
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.360
up our nuclear weapons because they said there, We're going

824
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:56.320
to be there for us. And where are they now.

825
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:01.440
Yeah, if I were a sob nation, would I would

826
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:06.039
never put all of my trust in another sovereign nation.

827
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.480
I mean, the USA is far more honorable than most,

828
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:09.719
but I mean if you look at a lot of

829
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.599
different situations, like the marsh Arabs and the Kurds in Iraq.

830
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:15.159
I mean, when we've been involved in wars and then

831
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.840
there's a reasonable, reasonably honorable conclusion of the war and

832
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.199
we pull out, we remember that you're an ally well

833
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.559
lots of people in the USA, but like then, you're

834
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:26.880
often left with the consequences of what you did during

835
00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:28.800
that war, Like we're not going to come in every

836
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:31.519
couple of months and support you. And I mean Ukraine,

837
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.559
I don't know if I would have given up the nukes.

838
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:36.159
I mean, Ukraine's a stable second world country. I mean

839
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:38.679
I think I would have made the case that we're

840
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:41.440
at least as qualified over there to handle them, as

841
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.599
you know, mister Putin. So yeah, I mean that that's

842
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:49.679
one issue obviously, how much do you trust others? And

843
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:51.800
I mean, well, the little thing about this when you

844
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.960
said Trump is negotiating with them, so that in exchange

845
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:57.760
for the three hundred billion or so we've poured in.

846
00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:00.000
He wants a minerals deal, he wants an American presence.

847
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:03.360
I support that. I mean this, yeah, and Trump's a

848
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:05.679
businessman by background. I think there's this idea in the

849
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:10.760
USA that war is only just if it doesn't benefit

850
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.760
us in any way, or something like that, and I

851
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.280
don't agree with that. I think of evil as making

852
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:18.679
the world worse, good as making the world better, and

853
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.000
a lot of things like this is just being neutral.

854
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.400
So even in the old colonial era, I mean, the

855
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.360
idea was if you fought a war with someone and

856
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:29.000
you won, and you lost thousands of soldiers, you were

857
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.400
going to take a lot of their land and things

858
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:34.039
like access to rivers and ports. And I have no

859
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:36.679
issue with that at all. You found a city, name

860
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.480
it after a did American Like, That's what war used

861
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:42.239
to be about. To some extent, if you were forced

862
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:46.079
to fight one, you weren't just going to take losses

863
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:48.119
from it go bankrupt because of And that seems pretty

864
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:48.760
reasonable to me.

865
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:50.639
I agree with you. We got to go to a

866
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:52.960
quick break. We got more from doctor Wilford Riley. On

867
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:54.280
the other side, stay with us.

868
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870
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at Kentucky State University continues with us, author of Taboo,

947
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:14.360
Ten Facts you Can't talk About and lies. My liberal

948
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:19.079
teacher taught me, well, you know that's in war. You're

949
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:25.159
exactly right, because when there are distinct gains, especially for

950
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:28.239
an against an aggressor or somebody who started it, and

951
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.880
they lose something, then they go, hey, maybe I shouldn't

952
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:33.840
you want to do this again too soon, you know,

953
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.039
and back off the other thing going back to the

954
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:39.719
United States, which would make me feel uncomfortable, especially in

955
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:42.280
light of politically, what we've gone through and what we've

956
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:47.920
seen in terms of how the Democratic Party has administered wars,

957
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:52.320
they're lousy at it. And I mean, like you're going

958
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:54.159
to sit there and say, Okay, I'm going to make

959
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.239
a deal with a country that maybe I got a

960
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:59.920
four year guarantee or a three and a half year guarantee,

961
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:04.239
and even if Congress passes something under new management that

962
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:09.239
they happen to, you know, lose some seats in Congress.

963
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:12.800
You know, everything can be turned upside down. I'm not

964
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.599
too sure about that. That makes me feel a little insecure.

965
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.599
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a whole moral

966
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:23.119
calculus that goes along with this on both sides. I mean, so,

967
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:26.800
I think that the average liberal thinks that the default

968
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:30.519
is peace, and that you should value each human life,

969
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.800
no matter whose it is, the foreign stranger, an enemy

970
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:38.400
soldier roughly equally, so, war is seen as this enormous

971
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:42.400
negative and the only thing that can justify war would

972
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:47.000
be an almost religious commitment to not benefit in any

973
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:50.360
way from it, and alongside that, you should try for

974
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:54.639
peace in really any way possible. You should, you should

975
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.679
trust what other people are saying across national lines. And

976
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:00.480
I think that a lot of the this is pretty

977
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.559
stupid in naive, but that's how you get the Iran deal,

978
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:05.920
for example. I mean, you'll you'll very often have a

979
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:10.960
naive American administration negotiating with one of these these second

980
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.559
world powers like the Russians or the Persians that are

981
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.800
some of the best spies, the best diplomats in the world.

982
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:18.679
They have no intention of keeping their word. But I mean,

983
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:21.199
I think it was Barack Obama who literally sent cash

984
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:26.039
on pallets over to a rock. He accepted millions, yeahs,

985
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:29.039
billions of dollars. He accepted their their word that the

986
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.440
nuke plants they were building were just for civilian use,

987
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:34.920
if I recall correctly. And I think that you never

988
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:37.840
want to kill people, but it's perfectly fine to have

989
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:40.599
national interests and to say it would be worse for

990
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:43.119
the USA, and the USA is really all I can

991
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:46.519
think about. That's my pay grade in military business terms.

992
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.440
If we were to allow the Persians to build nukes

993
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:53.679
or to even have the capacity to build nukes. So

994
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:55.599
we're not going to allow that, And that seems to

995
00:50:55.639 --> 00:50:57.159
be more of what we're back to. I mean, if

996
00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.519
you can take out some of those facilities with one

997
00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:02.199
target strike, which we just did. That's that's what you do.

998
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:04.519
But there are gonna be other situations that lead to

999
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:08.599
larger scale military conflict, and it's not always a good

1000
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:12.320
idea to avoid that by making these worthless deals. Trump's

1001
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:13.519
tried to do this once or twice. I mean, he

1002
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:15.159
went to North Korea, he got along well with Kim

1003
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:17.159
Jong and but at some point you realize, like, this

1004
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:18.880
is just a piece of paper I got from this guy,

1005
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:22.159
and there's no Congress over there that's going to check it.

1006
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:23.519
Like if he wants to go to war, there's gonna

1007
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:26.239
be a conflict. So you you have to understand those

1008
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:28.880
things and understand that people around the world have very

1009
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.960
different ideas about the value of a life the value

1010
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:34.199
of a dollar when they'll fight, So all that has

1011
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:36.119
to be kept in mind. And right now it seems

1012
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:37.480
like we're doing that pretty well.

1013
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:41.599
Right exactly. Speaking of B two bombers, you know, when

1014
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:45.519
you said that, I flashed back to when you know,

1015
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:49.320
Trump and Putin met on the tarmac there in Alaska,

1016
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:52.079
and you've got to be too fly to fly over

1017
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:56.519
it's some jets accompanying them, and and and put I

1018
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:59.800
don't know if if Donald Trump didn't give him a

1019
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:03.119
head up, because the way he looked up was like, oh,

1020
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.639
what you know? And and Trump, you know, I don't

1021
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.719
know if he just elbowed him and just said, Hey,

1022
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:12.440
just sich sid just kidding, you know, proptly.

1023
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:14.840
I mean, that's a funny thing to do because it's

1024
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:17.559
a gesture of respect, like you're having a flyover for

1025
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:19.920
the foreign leader, but it's also a gesture of power

1026
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:24.000
in that you have these these planes that can barely

1027
00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:26.519
be seen by most radars and so on. I mean,

1028
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:29.079
you wonder if there were jokes about that, and Putin

1029
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:31.440
looks up, sees it, and Trump says something, that's the

1030
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:33.480
first time you've seen one of those, right, because the

1031
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:36.400
whole thing is that they're they're stealth attack planes. But yeah,

1032
00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:39.239
I thought that was funny. I do think that the

1033
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:42.559
modern media will try to spin almost anything, So I mean,

1034
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:44.599
when I looked up coverage of that, a lot of

1035
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:47.639
it was along the lines of Trump gives evil Vladimir

1036
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:51.239
Putin respectful flyover. No, I think that was pretty well done,

1037
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.039
Like you're gonna shoot off the cannons for the enemy leader,

1038
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:55.360
but you're also going to point out that you have

1039
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:58.039
twenty four cannons of this new variety, and the point

1040
00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:59.440
of that is very much like you don't want to

1041
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:00.920
you don't want to charge those, do you?

1042
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:04.119
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well I kept looking for Babylon B

1043
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:06.079
because I thought, you know, because these guys usually come

1044
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:08.960
up with something, you know, out of left field, and

1045
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:11.480
I just maybe I've missed it or something. But I

1046
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:14.400
just thought, well, that's uh, you know, that was very

1047
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:18.079
that was very cool. The Democrats meanwhile, we're gonna shift

1048
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:23.079
gears and talk about redistricting. Uh, you know, Texas finally

1049
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:27.920
got the Democrats back in in the quorum reluctantly, you know,

1050
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:31.480
after all the fussing and everything else. Uh, they're going

1051
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:34.039
to end up passing. The bill's going to pass and

1052
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:38.119
they will redistrict and you know, and to me, when

1053
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:41.559
I looked at it, I didn't think it was an

1054
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:45.400
unfair consideration. Uh, the way they made it and the

1055
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.800
way Gavin Newsom is trying to make it. And you know,

1056
00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:52.800
Gavin Newsom's talking about redistrict redistrict in California, but he's

1057
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:56.440
already redistricted so much so there's not so much there's

1058
00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.679
not enough meat on the bone. I don't know where

1059
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.039
he thinks he's going to be able to to, you know,

1060
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.760
realign not to mention the fact that they already have

1061
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:07.079
passed a law in California that says an outside commission

1062
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:12.039
that's they're the party, they're the ones to do the redistricting,

1063
00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.320
not not Gavin Newsom because he's ticked at Trump.

1064
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.559
Yeah, I mean, I think the whole thing is kind

1065
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.360
of funny at some level. It's also bad for democracy.

1066
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:24.840
I will say as someone who's who's on the right.

1067
00:54:24.920 --> 00:54:27.280
If the Democrats want to play this game, the Republicans

1068
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:29.119
are going to have a significant advantage. Like if you

1069
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:31.599
look through the South at Texas, Alabama, there are a

1070
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:35.039
lot more rid states that are reasonably fair and that

1071
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:37.199
could redistrict. Then there are blue states, a lot of

1072
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:41.000
which are already jerrymandered. But yeah, I mean in California

1073
00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:44.079
right now, there are I think thirty nine forty one

1074
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.960
percent of the population votes Republican, but they're only nine

1075
00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:48.039
GOP districts.

1076
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:49.800
And right right.

1077
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:51.679
It's very much because of how you draw the map.

1078
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:54.960
I mean, Texas, there's already a pretty significant advantage for

1079
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.559
the Republicans, and those are nowhere near the most gerrymandered states,

1080
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:00.320
by the way, Like if people in your audience google

1081
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.199
Illinois Congressional District, U.

1082
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:02.960
Yeah, exactly.

1083
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:06.280
One of the districts literally looks like a cop kicking Chicago.

1084
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:09.519
You've got like a hat shaped piece over heare and

1085
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:12.920
like a core body and a leg out in one direction.

1086
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.679
And that's all the Chicago suburbs. That's a mostly rid

1087
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:18.719
district that's drawn to incorporate a bunch of upper middle

1088
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:22.280
income communities. They're multiple districts in Chicago itself. There's a

1089
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:25.039
district that starts in the Saint Louis suburbs. I think

1090
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:28.800
it's the thirteenth and curves like across the whole state

1091
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:32.199
until it touches maybe Champagne, where the University of Illinois is,

1092
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:34.480
And I believe that's a blue district. I mean, that's

1093
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:38.679
what i'd suspect. So states have done this. In political science,

1094
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:40.519
I will say, we do have an opinion on this,

1095
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:44.280
which is that, Yeah, the way you'd ideally do redistricting

1096
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:46.719
is pretty literally just you'd have a math of the state,

1097
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:50.519
and you'd have the math guys at some politically nonpartisan

1098
00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:53.320
as Southern Methodist or something they would just cut the

1099
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.239
state down in ten or twenty or whatever district. It's

1100
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:59.400
extremely easy to do that. The reason we don't do

1101
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:02.159
that is that no one wants it. The Democrats don't

1102
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.519
want it, if we're being honest, the Republicans usually don't

1103
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.920
want it. Minority communities don't want it.

1104
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:07.519
One of the.

1105
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.079
Things that we forget with redistricting is that the most

1106
00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:12.800
common reason it's done is to create what are called

1107
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:16.280
majority black or majority Hispanic districts. This is something that

1108
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.119
comes out of the seventies, where the idea was we

1109
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:21.559
need affirmative action policies and everything. So in most states

1110
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.480
there are one or two districts that are drawn so

1111
00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:27.599
you can get concentrated black communities represented in Congress. I

1112
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:29.360
can't talk about all the details, but I recently did

1113
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:31.639
some consulting with one of the southern states, and they're

1114
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:36.119
trying to create a new African American district basically by

1115
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.599
combining this whole broad range of the state that happens

1116
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:42.480
to be about forty percent black, and you know, I mean,

1117
00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:45.920
that's one of the things there. So there's pretty significant

1118
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:50.760
resistance to just, hey, let's draw five lines through the side.

1119
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:52.320
Kentucky does a pretty good job, but even we.

1120
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:54.559
Have a district that kind of purls like a bull's

1121
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:57.800
horns for no reason whatsoever. You know, it is what it.

1122
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.119
Is, right exactly. Well, because Paul being what it is,

1123
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:05.079
you know, to the victor belong to spoils, and redistricting

1124
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:07.760
is part of that spoil that they get to enjoy, right.

1125
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:11.280
Yeah, I mean, I think most people feel that politics

1126
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:14.000
is becoming pretty important at the national level. I would

1127
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:16.320
say more important at the national level than it's supposed

1128
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:19.719
to be in the USA. So who's in Yeah, who's

1129
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.559
in Congress has pretty significant impacts. I mean, is there

1130
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:26.960
going to be a bill legalizing abortion through birth nationally?

1131
00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:29.480
That that could be one side effect of a plus

1132
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:32.360
fifteen Democratic majority in the Congress, which wouldn't be a

1133
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:35.440
massive majority. So I mean, I think because of that

1134
00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:38.559
people people tend to fight this stuff tooth and nail.

1135
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:42.480
This also happens all the time because you draw districts

1136
00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:45.440
every ten years when the census comes out, So it's

1137
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:48.079
not like you have these classic districts that sit for

1138
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:50.159
fifty years, like well, that's the black district, that's the

1139
00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:54.760
preppy suburban district. That's the downstate agriculture district. I actually

1140
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:56.840
would have a problem with this is whatever they look like. No,

1141
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:00.280
every ten years you draw new ridiculous looking districts might

1142
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.320
look more or less like what they did last time.

1143
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:04.519
Yeah, but you only hope that you would get a

1144
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:06.880
better census reading than you did last time. Of course

1145
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.920
they blame it on COVID, but it was interesting that

1146
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:15.000
the undervaluing seemed to be more on Red states than

1147
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:18.400
Blue states. And this is what has brought up the argument.

1148
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:20.800
Trump said, hey, maybe we need to redo the census

1149
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:25.159
because of the errors. But again it points to Democrats

1150
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:28.599
in their terrible ability. I think they need a crash

1151
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.639
course on mathematics or something because they keep messing up

1152
00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:32.159
the numbers.

1153
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:36.599
I mean, the census was obviously politicized last time. I'm

1154
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:40.000
sure did play a role. Well, I mean probably what

1155
00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:43.239
the Blue states did was use estimates of their population,

1156
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.719
which disadvantage the Red states. So in the Red States

1157
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:49.559
you couldn't go everywhere because there were still some COVID restrictions,

1158
00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:51.320
and you wound up with under counts of six point

1159
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:53.440
eight percent so on in the Blue states. I my

1160
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:55.800
understand he is at least some of them used mathematical

1161
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:58.400
models to estimate how many people they have. And there

1162
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:00.559
are a lot of issues with the census. Actually, I mean,

1163
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:02.719
should illegal immigrants be counted in this?

1164
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:06.239
Yeah? Yeah, well you can count them, but they have

1165
00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.440
to note that they are illegal. But who's gonna have run?

1166
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:12.400
Who's gonna mark the bucks? I am an the illegal immigrant? Right?

1167
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:14.880
No, that's exactly right. I mean the census he has

1168
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.679
your address on it, in your name, how many people

1169
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:18.320
there are in your family? So if you ask someone

1170
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:22.480
like are you illegally here from Honduras? I mean no, senior,

1171
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:23.800
I mean like you don't mean to make fun of it,

1172
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:25.559
but they're not going to say yes, I am while

1173
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:28.719
you're sitting at the table. So there have been issues

1174
00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:32.679
like this. The census is harder in urban areas, African Americans,

1175
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:35.000
white hipster types. I mean a lot of those people,

1176
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:38.119
anyone involved in crime. People aren't going to answer the door.

1177
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:40.440
Is that an empty apartment? How do you know?

1178
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:42.039
So all this came up.

1179
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.159
My understanding is most red states were undercounted about four

1180
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:49.400
to five percent last time. The idea from President Trump

1181
00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:51.639
that we need a new census, now, I mean, he's

1182
00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:53.760
a hard charging guy, But that doesn't necessarily make a

1183
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:55.679
lot of sense. I mean, that would be done in

1184
00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:58.920
twenty twenty six, and then if you redistricted based on that,

1185
00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:01.079
you'd be done with that twenty two twenty eight, and

1186
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.719
then in twenty thirty you have to do the census again.

1187
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:07.559
So yeah, it's it's just sort of like you lose

1188
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:09.800
a game on the last play, you shout at the

1189
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.239
ref once, and then you've come back next year. I mean,

1190
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:14.840
there's no we're not actually going to redo the census

1191
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:18.039
every two years as president shift, So we're we're probably

1192
01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:20.119
gonna end twenty thirty. We're going to find out some

1193
01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:22.039
interesting things. We're going to find out how many people

1194
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:24.880
Biden actually let in. I mean, I think that's that's

1195
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:26.440
a big one. We're going to find out what the

1196
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.800
undercount was last time. I'm sure under Trump would do

1197
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:31.679
it competent vents or do it competently, even do some

1198
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:35.239
would probably do it competently. So we then see, this

1199
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.079
is the actual population of the USA. I don't I

1200
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.800
don't think it's still around three hundred million, twenty millik

1201
01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:42.840
It's substantially more than that, but right now we don't know.

1202
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:44.679
They're admitted undercounts in most states.

1203
01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:47.679
Exactly, we got to leave it there to be continued

1204
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:50.880
with doctor Wilford Riley, Professor of political Science at Kentucky

1205
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.800
State University. Thank you will take care.

1206
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:55.679
Thanks Bill.

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Getting America back on track.

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01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:08.559
Bill Martinez Live, Well.

1227
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:10.360
Good morning America. Great to have you with us. Just

1228
01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:12.760
about six minutes after the top of the hour, I

1229
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:17.559
am Bill Martinez and our next guest is Paul Andrew Hutton.

1230
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:22.119
He's an American writer in television personality, also a tired

1231
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.559
distinguished Professor of history at the University of New Mexico

1232
01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:29.840
and the former executive director of Western History Association and

1233
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:32.880
past president of Western Writers of America.

1234
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:37.559
He is the author of Apache Wars, and we're going

1235
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:41.719
to be talking about his latest book, The Undiscovered Country,

1236
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:45.559
Tryum Tragedy and the Shaping of the American West.

1237
01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:48.199
Paul, welcome the show. Great to have you with us.

1238
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:50.519
Well, thanks so much for having me, Billa.

1239
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:52.840
I love history, and I love what you've done here.

1240
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:57.239
This is awesome because you know, there's been so many

1241
01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:01.400
narratives running around as you know about you know, how

1242
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:06.719
the Thirteen Colonies came west, and you know the highs

1243
01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.840
and lows and as you say, some of the bright

1244
01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:13.079
spots but some of the dark spots of the expansion

1245
01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:17.320
of the West and the United States of America.

1246
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:22.639
Well, it's contested ground, just as it was in reality

1247
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:30.159
back in the you know, nineteenth century, and the historiography

1248
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:30.760
on this, you.

1249
01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:32.000
Know, is pretty hot.

1250
01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:35.079
And what I've tried to do with this book is

1251
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:40.480
actually find a middle ground. I believe, of course, the

1252
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:43.159
settlement of the American West defines who we are as

1253
01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:48.320
a nation, defined our national character. And since I think

1254
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:52.360
we're the most wonderful country in the world, I think

1255
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:55.639
this is all good. But yes, terrible things happen, no

1256
01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:57.679
question about it. And so I try to walk that

1257
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:01.519
fine line, you know, to to tell both sides of

1258
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:02.280
the story.

1259
01:04:02.599 --> 01:04:05.760
Right, So, and I guess that was your ambition in

1260
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:09.280
writing The Undiscovered Country, is you know, to kind of

1261
01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:14.920
find that that line that because whenever it's talked about recently,

1262
01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:18.519
it seems that America is so quickly maligned. But there's

1263
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:20.639
more to the story than I mean, you can take

1264
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:25.079
excerpts of the story and present it however way you want,

1265
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.760
so I appreciate that you you looked at it in

1266
01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:31.840
a broader sense to be able to offer some balance

1267
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:32.280
to this.

1268
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:35.679
Well, I use seven protagonists to tell my story.

1269
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:36.760
Only seven?

1270
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:39.000
Only seven? Yeah, I know.

1271
01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:43.360
Well, it's something very famous, you know, Boom, Crockett, Carson, Cody,

1272
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:45.920
you know, Buffalo Bill and Red Eagle, the leader of

1273
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.280
the Creeks, Mangus Colorado so of the Apaches, and Citing

1274
01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:52.119
Ball of course, also is very famous. And I see

1275
01:04:52.119 --> 01:04:56.119
them all as heroic characters. And they're on conflicting sides,

1276
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:58.199
of course, in the story of the settlement of the

1277
01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:00.719
West and conquest of the West.

1278
01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:04.559
And I don't see a problem in that. I mean,

1279
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.480
they're all Americans, They're all you know.

1280
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:09.480
They're They're all part of this really colorful and romantic

1281
01:05:09.559 --> 01:05:12.880
story that is the story of America, I think, not

1282
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:15.199
just the story you know of the far West.

1283
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:19.239
Well, let's start from step one. How it all began, Paul.

1284
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:23.760
Well, I'll confess that it's all Walt Disney's fault, because

1285
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:27.719
when I was six years old, absolutely.

1286
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:30.960
I knew exactly. I'm I'm right with you, with you.

1287
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:32.719
I want to put on my if I could only

1288
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:34.800
find it, my coonskin hat, right.

1289
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.440
Well, and that is what started me on the trail

1290
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:40.320
of history. I got hooked on it as a child.

1291
01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:43.039
Of course, that was the great era of Western television

1292
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:45.599
and movies, right, you know, a third of all Hollywood's

1293
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:49.480
product where Westerns in the nineteen fifties and sixties, and

1294
01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:51.559
and so I was totally hooked. In fact a great story.

1295
01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:54.000
I've done exhibits around the country, and I work at

1296
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:57.400
the Buffalo Bill Center of the Western Cody, Wyoming secure

1297
01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:59.719
into the Buffalo Bill Museum. But in the past I've

1298
01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:01.519
done a lot of exhibits around the country. One of

1299
01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:04.880
them was Davy Crockett at the Texas State History Museum.

1300
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:08.679
Fest Parker came to the ultimate and I got to

1301
01:06:08.679 --> 01:06:11.960
give him a private tour and he signed my old

1302
01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:14.599
Davy Crockett at the Alamo comic book that I'd had

1303
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:18.920
since nineteen fifty five. So a thrilling moment. Of course,

1304
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:21.880
I pretended to be a real cool customer, you.

1305
01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:23.719
Know, college I bet well, yeah, I didn't want to go.

1306
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:26.599
I was just a jelly inside. I said, Oh my god.

1307
01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:30.199
Fest Parker, who even at that advanced age, was magnificent.

1308
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:32.880
Yes, right, exactly. Yeah. I had a chance to meet

1309
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:37.000
him in California. We went out to his winery.

1310
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:40.800
Yeah, yeah, you could still get that wine scot a

1311
01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:42.440
little coonskin cap on the labels.

1312
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:47.199
So great, exactly exactly all right, So okay, so uh

1313
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:54.039
with with the understanding that this is Disney influenced. Let's begin,

1314
01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:55.559
Let's begin the journey here.

1315
01:06:56.840 --> 01:06:59.599
Well, I start, I start the book with Braddock's defeat

1316
01:06:59.639 --> 01:07:03.119
and seven fifty five. And in fact, George Washington turned

1317
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:05.440
out to be kind of a major character in the book.

1318
01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:07.679
I didn't intend it that way at all. Daniel Boone

1319
01:07:07.719 --> 01:07:10.239
is kind of the leading character in the first part

1320
01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:13.039
of the story, but Washington took it over. And I

1321
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:17.440
tried to make a connection between the American Revolution and

1322
01:07:17.559 --> 01:07:19.360
this urge to settle the West, you know, both on

1323
01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:24.119
the part of big land speculators like Washington, wealthy influential people,

1324
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.920
but then also the long hunters like Daniel Boone, who

1325
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:30.840
went out found what they perceived to be a paradise

1326
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:37.360
and Kentucky's pretty nice and wanted to bring the people there,

1327
01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:40.159
and they saw that as the future for their family,

1328
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.360
for their children and their grandchildren. And he became like

1329
01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:46.360
a missionary trying to pull people and this was his

1330
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:49.239
great dream. It cost him two sons, a brother, and

1331
01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:52.719
a brother in law to settle Kentucky. And then finally,

1332
01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:56.960
after he had achieved this great goal, he got caught

1333
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:02.559
up in all kinds of lawsuits over lands surveys, and

1334
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:05.199
he left at age sixty five and went out to

1335
01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:08.519
Missouri where he lived twenty more years and went as

1336
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.440
far he went up the Missouri and up the Mississippi hunting,

1337
01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:16.039
and that part of his life is almost forgotten. But

1338
01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:19.319
we certainly see him as the founding father of the

1339
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:23.479
American West, right, really important character and American Moses, who

1340
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:26.319
leads the people, you know, into the wilderness and then

1341
01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:29.439
like the real Moses has no place there.

1342
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:32.680
Yeah exactly, Yeah, but Moses didn't have to. But Moses

1343
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:35.399
didn't have to deal with attorneys though Paul.

1344
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:37.840
He didn't, although maybe he was worried about it.

1345
01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:43.079
In this way he skipped no exactly. So so here

1346
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:47.399
he goes, and so he's in Missouri and lives happily

1347
01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:48.159
ever after.

1348
01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:51.520
Sort of does sort of does, although by that time

1349
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:55.159
he becomes incredibly famous and people are telling all these

1350
01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:58.600
crazy stories about him, and he really shies away from that.

1351
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.199
He doesn't, he doesn't embrace it like a later character

1352
01:09:02.279 --> 01:09:07.119
like Buffalo Bill Cody will and Davy Crockett will as well.

1353
01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:09.399
But we see with people like Boone and Kit Carson

1354
01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:12.960
who they're not real comfortable, you know, with that Mantle.

1355
01:09:13.079 --> 01:09:15.199
Well, Buffalo Bill Cody was like a showman. He was

1356
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:16.479
like the early showman, right.

1357
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:19.840
Well, you know that one time he is the most

1358
01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:23.640
famous American in the world and a superstar before there

1359
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:26.560
were superstars. Yeah, and you know his Wild West. He

1360
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:28.600
never called it a show. He thought it was a

1361
01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:33.880
pageant exhibition. But that ran for thirty years and had

1362
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:37.359
a huge influence on how we view the American West.

1363
01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:40.399
And you know, all the early filmmakers, including people like John.

1364
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:43.119
Ford, they all saw that show. And so all the.

1365
01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:46.119
Patterns of action that come in the Western film, it's

1366
01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:48.159
all from Buffalo Bill.

1367
01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:50.399
Right exactly. And so who's up next?

1368
01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:55.960
Well, I have two characters that I used after Boone.

1369
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.039
I used Red Eagle, who was the leader of the

1370
01:09:59.119 --> 01:10:02.079
Creek Indians. Although he's three quartered white, his white name

1371
01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:06.640
was William Weatherford and Davy Crockett. And of course Crockett's

1372
01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:09.760
particular labor of love for me, and so I kind

1373
01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:12.359
of I tried to do a little cultural history. I

1374
01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:14.600
told about what life was like for the Creeks, what

1375
01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:17.880
life was like for the pioneers of Davy Crockett's time

1376
01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:20.359
coming into the West. His grandparents are killed by the

1377
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.840
Creeks in fact, and then after what's called the Fort

1378
01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:28.039
Men's Massacre down in Alabama, five hundred people are slaughtered

1379
01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:31.600
by the Creeks led by William Weatherford, also called Red Eagle,

1380
01:10:32.079 --> 01:10:35.760
and so Crockett joins the volunteers under Andy Jackson, goes

1381
01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:38.119
down and fights in that Indian War. It's not a

1382
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.439
happy experience for him, though. There's a terrible massacre that

1383
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:47.199
he participates in in which they burn fifty Creek warriors

1384
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:49.560
alive in the cabin. They wouldn't surrender, and they set

1385
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.880
the cabin on fire trying to get him to come out.

1386
01:10:52.680 --> 01:10:53.439
Wouldn't surrender.

1387
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:58.279
And then the next day they discovered a potato seller

1388
01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:01.600
in the basement of this cabin.

1389
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:04.159
Right but Paul, hang on for a second. You got

1390
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:05.840
to go to quick Break. We'll pick it up from

1391
01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:08.239
there when we come back. We got more from the

1392
01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:11.840
author of Paul Andrew Hutton right after this stay with.

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And we're back.

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With you as promised. We're talking the Undiscovered Country with

1498
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:56.760
historian and critically became claimed author of Apache Wars, Paul

1499
01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:01.640
Andrew Hutton. Let's go ahead and pick up the store. Well.

1500
01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:05.439
Yeah, so at this at this terrible massacre of the

1501
01:17:06.359 --> 01:17:08.720
of the Indians, they had burned them all alive in

1502
01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:11.119
the cabin and they just they were starving the soldiers.

1503
01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:14.039
They discovered a potato cellar in the bottom of the

1504
01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:17.720
cabin and Crockett crawled down there and he's pulling up

1505
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:21.520
potatoes for everybody. Suddenly realizes that what he called the

1506
01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:26.079
grease of the Indians had covered all the potatoes, and

1507
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:28.439
he was just horrified by this moment. Of course, they

1508
01:17:28.439 --> 01:17:30.920
still ate the potatoes, and it's kind of a metaphors.

1509
01:17:31.159 --> 01:17:35.239
It's like they're growing strength, you know, from almost cannibalizing

1510
01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:38.720
the Indians, you know. And he realizes, he said later,

1511
01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:43.600
when he's in Congress and the Indian Removal Bill comes up,

1512
01:17:43.760 --> 01:17:48.000
he's the only Western congressman who votes against it, and

1513
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:50.520
so you can see the impact of that moment on him,

1514
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:53.279
and that's what gets him defeated in Congress.

1515
01:17:53.319 --> 01:17:56.439
Andrew Jackson was just furious that Crockett, who was.

1516
01:17:56.399 --> 01:17:58.439
So famous at the time, would vote against the Indian

1517
01:17:58.479 --> 01:18:00.960
Removal bill, and so they did everything they could. They

1518
01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:04.720
defeated him in the in the upcoming election, and he

1519
01:18:04.800 --> 01:18:06.800
told them you can all go to hell. I'm going

1520
01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:09.199
to Texas. Now a lot of people couldn't figure out

1521
01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:12.439
which was the worst place, but nevertheless, off he went.

1522
01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:16.600
Of course, arrives just in time for the Alamo and immortality.

1523
01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:20.039
Of course. Well, Paul, and you know, as you read

1524
01:18:20.079 --> 01:18:24.439
the story about this, you know, we've got stories of

1525
01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:28.880
where there's you know, peace, there's there's set you know,

1526
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:35.800
agreements between this migration going west with these different tribes

1527
01:18:35.800 --> 01:18:41.039
in that, and then there's a break in agreements, and

1528
01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:43.880
and then you get this conflict. And I mean, this

1529
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:47.159
just seems like a crazy cycle. They just kept on

1530
01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:50.880
going there. What was happening, you know in terms of

1531
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:55.680
this conflict. Why couldn't you know, why couldn't both sides

1532
01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:57.720
just agree and work the agreement?

1533
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:01.319
Well, they just couldn't They There were two world views

1534
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:03.399
that were so different and at the bottom of everything

1535
01:19:03.479 --> 01:19:07.399
is land. Land in those days not only meant wealth,

1536
01:19:07.399 --> 01:19:10.079
but it meant social position, you know, And remember before

1537
01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:12.760
Andrew Jackson was president, for heaven's sake, you had to

1538
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:16.079
own property to vote. So even your political rights are

1539
01:19:16.079 --> 01:19:19.640
dependent on this. And you know, people in Europe they

1540
01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:22.520
didn't own land, you know, only the aristocracy owned land.

1541
01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:24.560
But in America everyone could old land. You could be

1542
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:27.000
an indentured servant. Once you're free, you go out, you

1543
01:19:27.039 --> 01:19:29.760
get you know, if you're bold enough to risk it,

1544
01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:32.119
you go out to the west. You claim this land,

1545
01:19:32.199 --> 01:19:35.840
you pioneer it, and you make life for your kids

1546
01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:39.119
and your grandkids, and people prospers. And that's just the

1547
01:19:39.159 --> 01:19:41.319
pattern that goes all the way, all the way across

1548
01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:41.760
the West.

1549
01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:44.079
Well, Paul, wasn't it Wasn't it also that the Indians

1550
01:19:44.279 --> 01:19:46.600
they didn't you know, set up property rights. They just

1551
01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:49.479
lived the land, right. And then meanwhile you got Spain

1552
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:52.800
that owns a part of the West and all these

1553
01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:57.880
other countries that own parts and they're selling it out. Well,

1554
01:19:58.359 --> 01:19:59.960
you know, what are the Indians going to do? I mean,

1555
01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:02.800
basically the land is sold out from underneath them because

1556
01:20:02.840 --> 01:20:06.119
they didn't have ownership per se other than that's where

1557
01:20:06.119 --> 01:20:06.640
they lived.

1558
01:20:07.560 --> 01:20:07.760
Well.

1559
01:20:07.800 --> 01:20:10.039
And like in the Treaty of Paris that settled the

1560
01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:13.119
American Revolution and then later the Treaty of Ghent that

1561
01:20:13.279 --> 01:20:16.720
ended the War of eighteen twelve, native.

1562
01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:19.359
Rights were completely ignored.

1563
01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:22.520
Right and you know, the British just sold the Indians

1564
01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:25.039
out who had fought alongside them. Spanish did the same

1565
01:20:25.039 --> 01:20:27.319
thing exactly. And in fact, as long as we had

1566
01:20:27.319 --> 01:20:32.680
the Europeans meddling in our affairs, there was always going

1567
01:20:32.720 --> 01:20:36.039
to be trouble. Because they urged, you know, the Native

1568
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:39.960
Americans to go ahead and fight the expanding American settlers.

1569
01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:43.279
After the War of eighteen twelve, that gains up and

1570
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:49.039
then Indian removal is inevitable. And those Indians east of

1571
01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:52.359
the Mississippi River, like the Creek Indians that William Weatherford

1572
01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:56.560
led their living in cabins. I mean, they owned slaves.

1573
01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:01.079
They were like plantation owners. I mean, so they they

1574
01:21:01.119 --> 01:21:05.760
thought that they had accommodated, but still they owned the land.

1575
01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:07.760
And this is a time of a huge boom in

1576
01:21:07.800 --> 01:21:10.359
the cotton industry.

1577
01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:11.920
The cotton.

1578
01:21:13.159 --> 01:21:16.760
Planters all want that land, and that's what's really behind

1579
01:21:16.880 --> 01:21:20.399
end you removal. And if they go to Oklahoma, which

1580
01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:23.840
is land of course claim by comanchese and a Rappa

1581
01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:26.840
Hoose and chey Annes, and that sets up conflict, you know,

1582
01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:28.960
between the natives, and of course the Natives are always

1583
01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:32.560
fighting each other, had been for centuries before the whites

1584
01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:36.479
ever got here, and that of course plays into my

1585
01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:37.479
story as well.

1586
01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:41.960
Right, well, there's so much in this that you have

1587
01:21:42.399 --> 01:21:46.319
provided for us that really takes us down this incredible

1588
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:50.439
historic journey that puts things into perspective and as you say,

1589
01:21:51.279 --> 01:21:55.800
like everything the way this country was developed, the way expanded.

1590
01:21:57.079 --> 01:21:59.880
It's like you know the modern saying just follow the money.

1591
01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:03.840
Well it really is, uh and ultimately too. You know,

1592
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:07.880
I'm not really telling a morality tale here. I'm trying

1593
01:22:07.880 --> 01:22:11.760
to tell a story of adventure, yeah, and uh and

1594
01:22:11.960 --> 01:22:16.039
romance that and tragedy that I hope will engage the reader.

1595
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:18.039
I mean, this is a book that's written for what

1596
01:22:18.079 --> 01:22:20.359
I call real people, not my academic colleagues.

1597
01:22:20.399 --> 01:22:23.520
You know, I escape from that asylum.

1598
01:22:23.079 --> 01:22:27.880
You know, And so this is this is really I

1599
01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:31.199
think written you know, in a way that that I

1600
01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:33.359
hope will engage people and they'll really get hooked on

1601
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:33.960
it and read.

1602
01:22:33.840 --> 01:22:38.039
It like a novel, right exactly. But but it's it's

1603
01:22:38.039 --> 01:22:39.720
a true novel, I mean in a sense.

1604
01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:41.960
I mean, yes, absolutely absolutely.

1605
01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:45.359
I mean, with with all that's uh that's documented here,

1606
01:22:45.720 --> 01:22:49.319
and I don't think we covered all seven of your protagonists,

1607
01:22:49.399 --> 01:22:52.640
We've got about a little about about three and a

1608
01:22:52.680 --> 01:22:55.560
half minutes left here. Uh, we touched on Red Eagle,

1609
01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:56.479
Davy Crockett.

1610
01:22:56.640 --> 01:22:56.880
Uh.

1611
01:22:57.079 --> 01:22:59.399
Mangus Mangus Colorados.

1612
01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:04.279
Yeah, Mangus Colors was the leader of the Apaches. Uh,

1613
01:23:04.439 --> 01:23:07.119
the only chief of the Apaches that ever united all

1614
01:23:07.159 --> 01:23:10.920
the Apaches, you know, against really against the Mexicans, who

1615
01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:13.600
he really hated, but then finally against the Americans. And

1616
01:23:13.960 --> 01:23:18.960
uh he is captured under a flag of truce and murdered,

1617
01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:24.479
you know, is allegedly escaping you know, arrest. But it's

1618
01:23:24.520 --> 01:23:27.119
a pretty sad It's a pretty sad tale. And so

1619
01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.239
I bring the story down to the American Southwest, and

1620
01:23:29.319 --> 01:23:30.439
Kit Carson also.

1621
01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:32.359
Is a protagonist in this story. Uh.

1622
01:23:32.399 --> 01:23:34.039
And he's a guy in history who gets a really

1623
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:36.920
bad rap, which is a complete puzzle to me, because

1624
01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:40.479
he is like the Forest Gump of Western history. He's everywhere,

1625
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:43.720
he's with it, you know, doing everything, and very impressive

1626
01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:45.640
human being and a friend of the Indians.

1627
01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:47.039
He did everything he could to help them.

1628
01:23:47.439 --> 01:23:49.600
Uh why did he get a bad rap?

1629
01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:54.199
Navajo campaign and so down in the Southwest, he's truly

1630
01:23:54.239 --> 01:23:55.239
been turned into.

1631
01:23:56.720 --> 01:23:57.279
The hitler.

1632
01:23:57.439 --> 01:23:57.640
You know.

1633
01:23:57.840 --> 01:24:00.920
An analogy has always thrown around with Kit Carson down

1634
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:05.079
in New Mexico and Arizona, and the government down there

1635
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:07.520
just goes along with it. So there's no monuments to

1636
01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:11.680
Kit Carson in New Mexico. Monmissed ability to kid, but

1637
01:24:11.920 --> 01:24:15.560
not Kit Carson. And then I do Sitting Bull, who

1638
01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:18.319
leads the last Indian Resistance, and Buffalo Bill Cody, and

1639
01:24:18.319 --> 01:24:21.600
of course Sitting Bull went with Buffalo Bill Cody in

1640
01:24:21.640 --> 01:24:26.079
his show. So it's a wonderful merging of reality with

1641
01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:29.479
show business. And Buffalo Bill was the real deal, you know.

1642
01:24:29.560 --> 01:24:31.640
He as a as a kid, fifteen year old kid,

1643
01:24:31.640 --> 01:24:35.000
he's writing for the Pony Express. He becomes a buffalo

1644
01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:37.119
hunter feeding the railroad. He's not one of the buffalo

1645
01:24:37.159 --> 01:24:40.239
hunters that slaughtered all the buffalo. He's meeting people with it.

1646
01:24:40.279 --> 01:24:42.560
And then he became an army scout. He participates in

1647
01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:46.399
all the Indian all the late Indian Wars, fights against

1648
01:24:46.399 --> 01:24:49.319
Sitting Bull, you know, in that big eighteen seventy six campaign.

1649
01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:52.119
But then he goes on the stage and from the

1650
01:24:52.119 --> 01:24:55.159
stage in eighteen eighty three he founds his Wild West show,

1651
01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:58.600
which tours for thirty years all around the world. It's

1652
01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:02.359
all around the world, and he becomes this sequence showman,

1653
01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:05.359
but he was the real deal. He lived it, and

1654
01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:07.399
then he took it on the road. And it's incredible

1655
01:25:07.399 --> 01:25:09.760
the influence that had, and so that you know, by

1656
01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:11.600
the end of the story, we see how Buffalo Bill

1657
01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.520
helped to really shape the American ideal of what it

1658
01:25:15.560 --> 01:25:17.439
meant to be an American and told the rest of

1659
01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:19.439
the world what it meant to be an American too,

1660
01:25:19.479 --> 01:25:23.960
this new unique person that has arisen out of a

1661
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:27.359
conglomeration of people coming from all over the world. Thomas

1662
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:31.319
Jefferson back in eighteen oh three said that he saw

1663
01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:36.439
America as an empire for liberty and that he actually

1664
01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:38.960
predicted that one day we would be a continental nation

1665
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:41.079
and there would be three hundred million people here.

1666
01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:43.399
Here we are, huh, here we are. And that's why

1667
01:25:43.399 --> 01:25:46.600
he's on Mount Rushmore. He knew what he was talking about.

1668
01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:49.760
Exactly a minute left here for you. I mean, you've

1669
01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:51.359
been doing this all your life, it seems you know

1670
01:25:51.399 --> 01:25:54.439
you're a historian. You're so devoted to this. As you

1671
01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:58.119
were doing this, any big surprise that came out for.

1672
01:25:58.119 --> 01:26:04.720
You, you know, it was really the struggle to deal

1673
01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:10.079
with the conflict in the historical story, and the academic

1674
01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:13.760
community is very negative, and we see this filtering down

1675
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:16.960
into greade schools, high schools.

1676
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:19.159
And I really wanted to present a counter to that.

1677
01:26:19.399 --> 01:26:23.159
You know, I'm not ignoring the warts in American history

1678
01:26:23.199 --> 01:26:25.399
in these and there are plenty of bad moments in

1679
01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:30.359
this story, tragic moments, but overall, I just see it

1680
01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:32.560
as the story of America, which to me is a

1681
01:26:33.479 --> 01:26:37.520
glorious culmination of all this struggle, all this pain that

1682
01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:41.119
we went through. And you know, in our own lives

1683
01:26:41.119 --> 01:26:42.840
we do bad things, we feel bad about it when

1684
01:26:42.840 --> 01:26:44.920
we try to rectify things as a nation. I think

1685
01:26:44.920 --> 01:26:48.960
we've been trying to do that that too, But ultimately

1686
01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:52.640
this is this is I think a positive, kind of

1687
01:26:52.640 --> 01:26:55.640
glorious story of how we became who we are.

1688
01:26:56.079 --> 01:27:00.319
Well, as our founding doguments stay Paul, we're as firing

1689
01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:05.399
to that more perfect union. We've not declared that we've arrived, right,

1690
01:27:05.920 --> 01:27:09.920
we are still aspiring to that, and by the grace

1691
01:27:09.960 --> 01:27:12.880
of God, the chapters continue to be written as we celebrate.

1692
01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:15.800
We just celebrated our two hundred and forty ninth We're

1693
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.199
going into the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this

1694
01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:23.079
great country's founding. So it's exciting. So your book couldn't

1695
01:27:23.079 --> 01:27:23.880
be more timely.

1696
01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:25.840
I discovery.

1697
01:27:25.920 --> 01:27:29.960
Yeah, the Undiscovered Country historian and critically aclaimed author of

1698
01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:32.760
the Apache Wars, Paul Andrew Hutton, has been with us. Paul,

1699
01:27:32.880 --> 01:27:33.600
thank you so much.

1700
01:27:33.640 --> 01:27:36.079
Appreciate you well, thank you so much for having me.

1701
01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:37.720
Bill really appreciate it very much.

1702
01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:45.319
You're still glowing, flirting, grooving.

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You still got it.

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Nutrition for Patriots, Well, good morning.

1756
01:30:53.119 --> 01:30:55.319
Good to have you with us. Welcome back. I'm Bill

1757
01:30:55.359 --> 01:30:58.760
Martinez and we're gonna talk about the Incredible Dog Challenge

1758
01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:01.960
with the Manda Fleck is a renowned trainer and handler

1759
01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:05.840
the dog whisper herself, and doctor ruth Ann Lobos, the

1760
01:31:05.880 --> 01:31:10.720
Purina Senior Veterinarian, is with us. The Purina pro Plan

1761
01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:15.159
Incredible Dog Challenge is back. Can you believe this the

1762
01:31:15.239 --> 01:31:20.319
twenty eighth year bringing together extraordinary canine athletes from across

1763
01:31:20.319 --> 01:31:23.000
the country, and today they're launching a new show. It's

1764
01:31:23.279 --> 01:31:26.520
a different breed to take fans behind the scenes of

1765
01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:30.399
canine sports. Sports aren't just for humans, you know. Some

1766
01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:33.800
of the most exciting athletes compete on four legs. Now.

1767
01:31:33.800 --> 01:31:38.039
This premier competition showcases the amazing speed, agility and skill

1768
01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:41.840
of dogs and their handlers as they compete in thrilling events.

1769
01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:45.159
As I mentioned, joining us today for the Champion Dog

1770
01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:49.439
Trainer is Amanda Fleck and veterinarian doctor ruth An Lobos. Ladies,

1771
01:31:49.479 --> 01:31:51.479
welcome to the show. Good to have you with us.

1772
01:31:53.520 --> 01:31:54.880
Thanks you good to be here.

1773
01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:58.880
Well, Amanda, what is the Incredible Dog Challenge and what

1774
01:31:59.119 --> 01:32:01.359
makes it so dog gone unique?

1775
01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:07.279
The Incredible Dog Challenge is a premiere canine performance competition

1776
01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:11.319
powered by Purina pro Plan. The competition features incredible canine

1777
01:32:11.319 --> 01:32:15.720
athletes showcase their skills like duck diving, playing disc agility

1778
01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:19.159
and even surfing dog. Duclin and Groot compete in the

1779
01:32:19.199 --> 01:32:22.840
diving Dog and it's about trust, teamwork and celebrating how

1780
01:32:22.880 --> 01:32:24.960
amazing our dogs can be with the right training, care

1781
01:32:25.039 --> 01:32:26.600
and nutrition from Purina pro Plan.

1782
01:32:27.239 --> 01:32:29.239
Well, and of course you grabbed my heart right away

1783
01:32:29.279 --> 01:32:31.000
because one of the first dogs you show is a

1784
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:35.960
Border Collie which stole my He stole my heart so

1785
01:32:36.039 --> 01:32:38.439
many years ago. He's actually our son's dog. His name

1786
01:32:38.479 --> 01:32:43.840
was Kobe, and just a wonderful dog. And he went

1787
01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:47.359
over the bridge here about two years ago, and I

1788
01:32:47.479 --> 01:32:50.359
still think so warmly of him. And you know, I

1789
01:32:50.439 --> 01:32:52.399
keep telling my wife, we've got to get another border

1790
01:32:52.399 --> 01:32:53.840
call and she goes no, and I said, well, I

1791
01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:56.159
got to tell you. If somebody drops a Border Collie

1792
01:32:56.159 --> 01:32:58.479
at our doorstep, I think it's going to be we're

1793
01:32:58.520 --> 01:33:01.920
going to be hard pressed. But I had my one

1794
01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:04.000
doctor told me, said Bill, the one thing about dogs,

1795
01:33:04.079 --> 01:33:07.760
there's always one dog. And I can tell you that

1796
01:33:08.319 --> 01:33:12.319
Kobe was that one dog for me. So thanks for

1797
01:33:12.359 --> 01:33:14.479
bringing tears in my eyes and showing me this border

1798
01:33:14.479 --> 01:33:20.159
Collie right off of that here. Well, well, doctor Lowis,

1799
01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:23.520
tell us about this new docuseries A Different Breed that

1800
01:33:23.600 --> 01:33:27.199
launched today and what can viewers expect.

1801
01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:33.760
Yeah, so, our docuseries A Different Breed is a nine

1802
01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.000
episode series that is streaming on Prime Video and it

1803
01:33:38.079 --> 01:33:42.359
takes viewers behind the scenes of the elite canine athlete world.

1804
01:33:42.880 --> 01:33:47.479
It follows eighteen dogs that are absolutely amazing and their

1805
01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:51.720
handlers as they train, compete, and chase greatness all at

1806
01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:55.399
the Purina pro Plan Incredible Dog Challenge. But just like

1807
01:33:55.520 --> 01:34:01.720
you said, this docuseries really highlights the transformative bond between

1808
01:34:02.039 --> 01:34:05.800
the dog and their handler and how just the right

1809
01:34:05.880 --> 01:34:09.479
dog can completely rewrite a person's story.

1810
01:34:10.039 --> 01:34:13.079
Yeah, you're You're exactly right. It did for our whole family,

1811
01:34:13.119 --> 01:34:19.760
including our son, and these athletic dogs, these athletes themselves,

1812
01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:21.640
aren't they aren't they? Amanda?

1813
01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:22.840
Yeah?

1814
01:34:23.079 --> 01:34:24.960
Right, yes, absolutely.

1815
01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:29.159
Well tell us about your dogs, Declan and Groot. Am

1816
01:34:29.199 --> 01:34:29.920
I saying that right?

1817
01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:36.159
Yes? Yes, so Declan and then group here. Okay, we

1818
01:34:36.199 --> 01:34:38.279
actually started training them in our home pool at home,

1819
01:34:39.920 --> 01:34:45.000
and we combine the training at home with exercises to

1820
01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:47.800
keep them in top condition. We also go to a

1821
01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:51.840
local doc and pool where we train and compete. And

1822
01:34:52.039 --> 01:34:54.079
this is something that any dog could do any breed,

1823
01:34:54.119 --> 01:34:56.039
any size can compete in this and it's all about

1824
01:34:56.039 --> 01:34:56.920
having fun with your dog.

1825
01:34:58.159 --> 01:35:00.760
Yeah, it's kind of funny because know why I'm talking,

1826
01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:04.039
you know, our personal stories here but here my son

1827
01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:07.239
has the border Collie and my daughter had a Dalmatian,

1828
01:35:07.840 --> 01:35:10.680
and and when we started throwing the frisbee at the

1829
01:35:10.800 --> 01:35:13.680
border collie corpse there, it's instinct, right, they just go after.

1830
01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:18.199
It's not a problem. And the the the uh the

1831
01:35:18.399 --> 01:35:24.159
uh uh. My daughter's dog, his name was Sherman. The

1832
01:35:24.279 --> 01:35:26.920
Dalmatian would kind of look up and going like, hey,

1833
01:35:26.920 --> 01:35:28.640
what about me. I'm like, I'm chopped livery. You're not

1834
01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:30.920
gonna throw me the frisbee. And you know, so I

1835
01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:33.079
throw the frisbee. It goes over his head and then

1836
01:35:33.119 --> 01:35:39.720
he looks at you like Dalmatians don't chase frisbees, you know.

1837
01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:44.359
So anyway, uh, doctor lobis you know talking about, you

1838
01:35:44.359 --> 01:35:46.680
know the level of skill and that we're seeing with

1839
01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:49.840
these dogs. I mean, what does it take for them

1840
01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:51.000
to compete at this level?

1841
01:35:53.439 --> 01:35:53.680
Right?

1842
01:35:53.760 --> 01:35:57.840
So the they are true athletes, right, spinning and jumping

1843
01:35:57.880 --> 01:36:02.119
and twisting and leaping, all with precision and power, and

1844
01:36:02.199 --> 01:36:07.279
certainly solid nutrition is foundational to that it supports their muscles,

1845
01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:11.520
it helps with recovery, It certainly gives them focus when

1846
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:12.359
they're out there.

1847
01:36:12.760 --> 01:36:15.760
But the Incredible Dog Challenge isn't just about winning.

1848
01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:20.159
It really is about that amazing bond between the dog

1849
01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:25.319
and their human and their achievements. Every single one of

1850
01:36:25.359 --> 01:36:28.039
them is a team effort, right. It is the combination

1851
01:36:28.439 --> 01:36:33.319
of great training, solid nutrition, and then certainly a love

1852
01:36:33.359 --> 01:36:34.600
and passion for the sport.

1853
01:36:35.439 --> 01:36:37.560
Well, you know, and I'm glad you said that it's

1854
01:36:37.800 --> 01:36:40.800
healthy for the dogs, right. I'm sure you're finding that

1855
01:36:41.119 --> 01:36:43.880
dogs who participate and it's like human beings, you know

1856
01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:48.720
that when we're moving and being athletic, it increases our

1857
01:36:49.640 --> 01:36:51.800
I guess the quality of life. Is that fair to

1858
01:36:51.800 --> 01:36:53.000
say about the dogs as well?

1859
01:36:55.039 --> 01:36:55.199
Oh?

1860
01:36:55.279 --> 01:36:59.640
Absolutely, I mean it gives them purpose and it you know,

1861
01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:02.239
I like to say as a veterinarian, I like to

1862
01:37:02.279 --> 01:37:05.319
say that motion is medicine, and so it gives them

1863
01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:09.800
that opportunity both for their physical health as well as

1864
01:37:09.800 --> 01:37:13.079
their mental health. And at the Incredible Dog Challenge, you'll

1865
01:37:13.119 --> 01:37:17.039
see dogs of all ages competing upwards of ten, eleven

1866
01:37:17.079 --> 01:37:19.760
and twelve years old, because again, it gives them that

1867
01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:21.000
purpose as well.

1868
01:37:21.039 --> 01:37:22.920
As keeps them in good body condition.

1869
01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:26.560
Amanda. And you know, seeing you working with the dogs

1870
01:37:26.840 --> 01:37:30.600
decline and grout, is this like a daily commitment? I mean,

1871
01:37:30.720 --> 01:37:32.880
you know somebody who sees this and goes, you know, hey,

1872
01:37:32.920 --> 01:37:34.640
I think I could do that with my dog. I mean,

1873
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:36.159
what kind of commitment does it take.

1874
01:37:38.600 --> 01:37:41.079
Well, it is a daily commitment, but it more has

1875
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:43.439
to do with just getting your dog out and exercising

1876
01:37:43.439 --> 01:37:46.079
them every day and playing with them. It's not necessarily

1877
01:37:46.119 --> 01:37:49.680
about training every single day. It's about creating a bond

1878
01:37:49.720 --> 01:37:52.880
with them and playing with them and interacting with them.

1879
01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:55.920
Well, how do you get them to do certain extras?

1880
01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:58.359
I mean we're watching these dogs, you know, go through

1881
01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:00.680
these parallel bars and there weaving in and out, and

1882
01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:03.359
of course they're jumping and catching things and all that.

1883
01:38:03.439 --> 01:38:05.600
How do you train them to do that or is

1884
01:38:05.640 --> 01:38:08.640
it just already within their breed that they you know,

1885
01:38:08.720 --> 01:38:10.600
you put a frisbee, I know, like with our dog.

1886
01:38:10.880 --> 01:38:12.720
I just I just threw the frisbee at the dog

1887
01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:14.600
and he I mean I wasn't like I'd do anything.

1888
01:38:14.600 --> 01:38:20.359
I just threw the frisbee and he went after it.

1889
01:38:20.359 --> 01:38:26.119
It's it's just building toy drive and teaching them how

1890
01:38:26.159 --> 01:38:29.399
to interact with you. And if you create that bond

1891
01:38:29.439 --> 01:38:31.079
with them, you can get them to do a lot

1892
01:38:31.119 --> 01:38:34.720
of things. So that's a big part of it, is

1893
01:38:34.760 --> 01:38:37.760
just having a good bond with your dog and building

1894
01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:39.960
toy drive and food drive and then they're willing to

1895
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:41.359
do all kinds of things.

1896
01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:44.079
Well, we're talking with the man of Flaka, renowned trainer

1897
01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:49.359
and handler. She's based in Glendale, Arizona. A passionate animal

1898
01:38:49.399 --> 01:38:52.920
lover and an accomplished dog trainer. And your husband. You've

1899
01:38:52.920 --> 01:38:54.520
got your husband in the act too, right.

1900
01:38:56.279 --> 01:38:59.680
Yes, yeah, he competes as well. Well good well, Sam

1901
01:39:00.159 --> 01:39:01.319
the event my kids compede.

1902
01:39:01.319 --> 01:39:03.600
Also, at least you know where he's at then, you know,

1903
01:39:03.720 --> 01:39:06.880
so you don't have to keep too close to that. Yeah.

1904
01:39:07.079 --> 01:39:11.359
And doctor Ruth ann Lovos Purina Senior Veterinarian, So how

1905
01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:15.359
did you become the Purina Senior Veterinarian, Doctor Ruth.

1906
01:39:17.720 --> 01:39:21.560
Well, I've been with the organization about twenty years, so

1907
01:39:21.720 --> 01:39:23.079
it's it's taken a lot of.

1908
01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:27.880
Elbow grease, but it's really driven by a passion for

1909
01:39:28.079 --> 01:39:32.119
pets and for people, and really that is foundational to

1910
01:39:32.199 --> 01:39:34.000
Purina's philosophy as well.

1911
01:39:34.439 --> 01:39:38.359
When we bond with our dog's life becomes richer. And

1912
01:39:38.399 --> 01:39:40.199
that is what is really the.

1913
01:39:40.520 --> 01:39:43.840
Key messaging around the Incredible Dog Challenge and why we

1914
01:39:43.880 --> 01:39:46.840
want to share it with the world in our docuseries

1915
01:39:47.319 --> 01:39:51.880
because again, when people in pets bond, life truly is richer.

1916
01:39:52.520 --> 01:39:55.359
Now how can they get connected and see the docuseries.

1917
01:39:57.920 --> 01:40:01.479
So our docuseries A different Breed is streaming on Prime.

1918
01:40:01.319 --> 01:40:02.680
Video launched today.

1919
01:40:03.640 --> 01:40:05.920
And then I'll let Amanda talk about how she can

1920
01:40:06.159 --> 01:40:07.520
showcase Groot and Declin.

1921
01:40:07.560 --> 01:40:10.239
Matt Gruton Declan will be on the Western Regionals of

1922
01:40:10.279 --> 01:40:14.640
The Incredible Dog Challenge will air on NBC Sunday, August

1923
01:40:14.640 --> 01:40:16.399
thirty first at four pm Easter and it will be

1924
01:40:16.439 --> 01:40:18.279
available to stream on peacock the next day.

1925
01:40:18.800 --> 01:40:21.119
And if we want more information, where can we go?

1926
01:40:23.399 --> 01:40:26.600
Yep, So for more information you can go to Purina

1927
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:28.279
dot com slash pro plan.

1928
01:40:29.199 --> 01:40:31.479
Well, thank you so much for being with us, Amanda Fleck,

1929
01:40:31.560 --> 01:40:35.800
the renowned trainer and handler. Doctor ruth En Lobospurina, senior veterinarian.

1930
01:40:35.880 --> 01:40:38.239
Right here, I'm Bill Martinez Live. Have a great day,

1931
01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:40.720
take care great.

1932
01:40:40.520 --> 01:40:41.199
Thank you.

1933
01:40:42.560 --> 01:40:45.039
Chronic migraine is fifteen or more headache days a month.

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Each lasting four hours or more.

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including als, Lugeric's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert eaton syndrome,

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Do you have medicare and do you use a seapap machine?

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1998
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1999
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2001
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2010
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2011
01:44:45.880 --> 01:44:48.880
Welcome back in America. Bill Martinez here, and we've got Father

2012
01:44:48.920 --> 01:44:51.199
Frank with us. Scotsh it's been a minute since we've talked,

2013
01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:55.760
But always appreciate his heart when it comes to life,

2014
01:44:55.800 --> 01:44:59.960
because that is the father's heart. It's it's still a

2015
01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:00.880
about life, isn't it.

2016
01:45:01.760 --> 01:45:04.760
You know, Bill, thanks for having me on. Jesus said,

2017
01:45:04.800 --> 01:45:06.760
I came that they might have life and have it

2018
01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:09.319
to the full. God didn't need to create us. He

2019
01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:13.039
created us freely out of love. And our whole religion

2020
01:45:13.079 --> 01:45:16.079
really is about human life, or as as it says

2021
01:45:16.079 --> 01:45:18.880
in one of my favorite verses of Revelation, that God

2022
01:45:18.960 --> 01:45:22.439
will seat us with him on his throne. So it's

2023
01:45:22.439 --> 01:45:24.199
not just that we're going to be gathered around the throne,

2024
01:45:24.199 --> 01:45:26.199
We're going to be on the throne. That's what God

2025
01:45:26.239 --> 01:45:27.960
thinks of human life exactly.

2026
01:45:28.039 --> 01:45:29.960
You know, you go back. I always love going back

2027
01:45:29.960 --> 01:45:32.600
to the book of Genesis, Father, because you know, it's

2028
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:35.680
where it all began. You think about what it was

2029
01:45:35.840 --> 01:45:41.399
like with our first parents walking talking with God, communing

2030
01:45:41.479 --> 01:45:45.159
with God, you know. And I was, I was, you know,

2031
01:45:45.239 --> 01:45:48.760
meditating on that here in the in the recent weeks,

2032
01:45:49.039 --> 01:45:53.079
and I thought, with all that going so wonderfully, how

2033
01:45:53.119 --> 01:45:57.279
it must have broke God's heart. When Adam and Eve

2034
01:45:57.359 --> 01:45:59.399
decided to make a hard.

2035
01:45:59.279 --> 01:46:03.680
Left, they thought they could do it without him.

2036
01:46:03.680 --> 01:46:04.479
And you know, the.

2037
01:46:04.439 --> 01:46:08.520
Original temptation actually says a lot about the whole abortion

2038
01:46:08.600 --> 01:46:11.840
issue because they were told, you know, you will be

2039
01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:14.479
like God's if you eat from the tree of the

2040
01:46:14.520 --> 01:46:16.800
knowledge of good and evil. Now knowledge of good and evil.

2041
01:46:16.800 --> 01:46:19.279
You know, it sounds like there's something wrong with knowing

2042
01:46:19.359 --> 01:46:21.640
the difference between good and evil. No, we have to

2043
01:46:21.640 --> 01:46:24.000
know the difference. In fact, God was teaching them at

2044
01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:26.640
that moment the difference. What it means is that we

2045
01:46:26.680 --> 01:46:28.880
would think we were the source of the difference though.

2046
01:46:28.920 --> 01:46:31.880
In other words, and that that is a condemnation of

2047
01:46:31.920 --> 01:46:35.199
the pro choice mentality. They don't necessarily deny that it's

2048
01:46:35.239 --> 01:46:39.279
a baby. They say, well, because it's my choice, it's

2049
01:46:39.319 --> 01:46:43.359
okay to end this life. It's like, no, no, no,

2050
01:46:43.399 --> 01:46:46.640
that was the original problem. And Adam and he said,

2051
01:46:46.680 --> 01:46:49.479
you don't get to determine the moral code. You don't

2052
01:46:49.479 --> 01:46:51.800
get to write your own ten commandments. And that's the

2053
01:46:51.920 --> 01:46:53.920
whole crux of the matter, is like, are we going

2054
01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:57.640
to submit to God's will and therein find our freedom

2055
01:46:58.199 --> 01:47:00.520
or are we going to pretend to be God and

2056
01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:03.359
just assert our own will, which is exactly what the

2057
01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:05.680
term pro choice says exactly.

2058
01:47:05.840 --> 01:47:08.640
Well, you know here it is. For over fifty years

2059
01:47:08.640 --> 01:47:12.319
now we've debated this issue, and you know, you and

2060
01:47:12.359 --> 01:47:16.680
I were very hopeful we realized and saw for ourselves

2061
01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:21.159
the organic movement of the reality of sin. You know,

2062
01:47:21.199 --> 01:47:25.000
people realizing, hey, this is you know, they lied to me.

2063
01:47:25.359 --> 01:47:28.159
They told me it was just some excess tissue like

2064
01:47:28.199 --> 01:47:30.960
a tumor, and I realized it's a baby. And then

2065
01:47:31.000 --> 01:47:35.439
you have this movement among women who had experienced abortion.

2066
01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:40.119
And then of course we have technology that comes along

2067
01:47:40.239 --> 01:47:44.520
and ultrasound treatment showing us inside that it's more than

2068
01:47:44.560 --> 01:47:48.920
a fetus, it's an actual baby. And women who were

2069
01:47:49.119 --> 01:47:52.319
seeing and deprived up to that point there were deprived

2070
01:47:52.359 --> 01:47:56.199
from seeing it. The abortion is purposely kept that vision

2071
01:47:56.319 --> 01:47:57.359
away from them. Right.

2072
01:47:58.439 --> 01:48:01.039
They hate the laws that you know, many of us

2073
01:48:01.079 --> 01:48:05.720
have worked on in states across the country that requires

2074
01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:09.800
either requires the abortionists to offer a view of the

2075
01:48:09.880 --> 01:48:14.199
ultrasound or requires them to actually show it. It's amazing

2076
01:48:14.239 --> 01:48:20.359
how the other side opposes that it's not surprising. Why

2077
01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:22.760
because they know that when when when that mom sees

2078
01:48:22.800 --> 01:48:25.479
her own baby, a bond begins to develop, she sees

2079
01:48:25.520 --> 01:48:28.079
that the baby is much more developed than she had

2080
01:48:28.119 --> 01:48:30.920
been led to believe. In fact, it's a condemnation of

2081
01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:34.079
the abortion industry because it unfolds their lives. When they

2082
01:48:34.079 --> 01:48:38.279
say Oh, it's just some tissue. But it also underscores

2083
01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:41.680
now self contradictory they are because they're talking about choice

2084
01:48:42.359 --> 01:48:45.960
and we're saying, hey, shouldn't the woman know more about

2085
01:48:46.000 --> 01:48:48.800
what she's choosing and choice?

2086
01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:50.439
Yes, exactly, Yeah.

2087
01:48:50.279 --> 01:48:52.359
If you know more about what you're choosing, you're more free.

2088
01:48:52.720 --> 01:48:55.000
Right, without a doubt. And the thing is, you know,

2089
01:48:55.119 --> 01:48:59.439
speaking of which you know, with the abortifations and the

2090
01:48:59.479 --> 01:49:03.640
movement and the way they've twisted the law and it's

2091
01:49:03.800 --> 01:49:07.359
cross state lines and everything, and you've got these young

2092
01:49:07.399 --> 01:49:12.760
girl's father that are chemically aborting their child and the

2093
01:49:12.880 --> 01:49:18.439
baby is dumped out in the toilet, right, I don't know.

2094
01:49:18.920 --> 01:49:23.199
I mean, if that doesn't cause PTSD or some type

2095
01:49:23.279 --> 01:49:28.880
of long term mental anguish, I don't know how you

2096
01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:29.560
unsee that.

2097
01:49:30.399 --> 01:49:32.760
Yeah, Well, as you know, Bill, we oversee the world's

2098
01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:37.199
largest ministry for healing after abortion, Rachel's Vineyard, and we're

2099
01:49:37.279 --> 01:49:39.399
hitting the nail on the head because you know, in

2100
01:49:39.439 --> 01:49:44.560
the surgical abortion clinics, they don't usually see the body

2101
01:49:44.600 --> 01:49:47.640
parts of the babies. The staff do see them, but

2102
01:49:47.840 --> 01:49:50.560
when it's at home abortion.

2103
01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:53.039
They're led to believe, oh, this is gonna be easier.

2104
01:49:53.880 --> 01:49:56.880
But it's actually harder because now they have to see

2105
01:49:56.920 --> 01:50:01.359
they see feet and hands and faces falling onto their

2106
01:50:01.399 --> 01:50:05.199
bathroom floor. The trauma of that is unbelievable. And in

2107
01:50:05.279 --> 01:50:09.000
our healing ministry, we're finding that the women who undergo

2108
01:50:09.079 --> 01:50:13.279
these chemical at home abortions end up coming more quickly

2109
01:50:14.319 --> 01:50:17.800
to healing. In other words, instead of years going by,

2110
01:50:18.720 --> 01:50:22.039
days or weeks go by, and because the denial has

2111
01:50:22.119 --> 01:50:25.119
been broken immediately when they saw that baby. And the

2112
01:50:25.159 --> 01:50:28.119
other part of the trauma is not only seeing that,

2113
01:50:29.279 --> 01:50:31.399
but when you go to a surgical abortion, you know,

2114
01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:35.199
very often part of the avoidance reaction subsequently, as they're

2115
01:50:35.479 --> 01:50:37.960
engulfed in that pain, is that they won't want to

2116
01:50:38.039 --> 01:50:40.560
drive by that place. In fact, a lot of times

2117
01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:42.840
if it's in their own town, they will deliberately go

2118
01:50:42.880 --> 01:50:45.159
out of their way to avoid passing by that place

2119
01:50:45.279 --> 01:50:48.960
and triggering those memories. But what happens when the abortion

2120
01:50:49.039 --> 01:50:51.520
clinic is your own home, or your own bedroom or

2121
01:50:51.520 --> 01:50:54.239
your own bathroom. You can't escape that. So the the

2122
01:50:54.239 --> 01:50:57.720
the the the like you say, the PTSD, the the

2123
01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:02.039
the traumatic reaction is far worse with the chemical abortions.

2124
01:51:02.840 --> 01:51:05.439
And the thing is the great work that Rachel vineyard

2125
01:51:05.520 --> 01:51:09.600
is doing and others to administer. And we say this

2126
01:51:09.720 --> 01:51:12.279
to everyone, I mean men included a growing number of

2127
01:51:12.279 --> 01:51:15.319
men as you and I the last time or awakening

2128
01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:20.159
going I killed my child. I'm involved in this. And

2129
01:51:20.319 --> 01:51:24.279
again we say, look at God is the only one

2130
01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:28.359
who can forgive and and and he is there with

2131
01:51:28.479 --> 01:51:32.159
open arms saying, come to me, come to me, let

2132
01:51:32.199 --> 01:51:35.720
me heal, Let me forgive you. Let me affect healing

2133
01:51:35.800 --> 01:51:40.479
in your life so that you can, you know, so

2134
01:51:40.520 --> 01:51:44.079
that God can assemble the pieces back together again, so

2135
01:51:44.119 --> 01:51:46.439
that you can go on with your life. You will

2136
01:51:46.479 --> 01:51:49.239
probably no doubt carry this for the rest of your life,

2137
01:51:49.239 --> 01:51:52.800
till the day you die. It's it's not some kind

2138
01:51:52.840 --> 01:51:56.319
of abracadabra, and it's out of your mind. You know.

2139
01:51:56.640 --> 01:52:00.000
I hear and as you do, Father, that women may

2140
01:52:00.039 --> 01:52:04.479
and carry this with them forever, I mean forever. You know,

2141
01:52:04.520 --> 01:52:06.760
they'll say, oh, Bill, my child would have been twelve

2142
01:52:06.840 --> 01:52:10.239
today or whatever. You know, Yeah, they it's amazing. Like

2143
01:52:10.279 --> 01:52:15.039
you said, places smells things that they associate with. This

2144
01:52:15.119 --> 01:52:17.680
tragic event stays with them forever.

2145
01:52:18.760 --> 01:52:19.319
It does.

2146
01:52:19.479 --> 01:52:22.439
And then that the point of the healing is not

2147
01:52:22.479 --> 01:52:25.239
that they will forget that or that there will not

2148
01:52:25.319 --> 01:52:27.640
be a pain and a burden for the rest of

2149
01:52:27.680 --> 01:52:32.079
their life, but that they can carry that pain secure

2150
01:52:32.199 --> 01:52:34.479
in the love of God, that God still has a

2151
01:52:34.520 --> 01:52:36.920
life for them. You know, many of these these these

2152
01:52:36.960 --> 01:52:38.960
these women who have had abortions, they feel like and

2153
01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:40.760
the men too, they feel.

2154
01:52:40.439 --> 01:52:42.520
Like, oh, my life is over. I can't go on.

2155
01:52:42.840 --> 01:52:47.640
And this is why the temptation to suicide vastly increases,

2156
01:52:47.680 --> 01:52:50.520
like eight hundred percent increase in suicide risk if you

2157
01:52:50.640 --> 01:52:53.319
have an abortion. Why because they really feel they can't

2158
01:52:53.359 --> 01:52:56.680
go on without their child. And sometimes they express it like, well,

2159
01:52:57.199 --> 01:52:59.279
you know, I killed my child, so now I have

2160
01:52:59.319 --> 01:53:00.840
to kill myself. I have to go to where my

2161
01:53:00.920 --> 01:53:03.159
child is. I have to impose on myself the punishment

2162
01:53:03.199 --> 01:53:06.359
I deserve. But so the healing will allow them to

2163
01:53:07.119 --> 01:53:10.199
not forget about the pain, but to live their life

2164
01:53:10.319 --> 01:53:15.560
courageously and with new hope because their abortion, as evil

2165
01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:20.720
as it is, still doesn't define who they are. It's

2166
01:53:20.720 --> 01:53:23.720
a bad thing they did, but it doesn't mean their

2167
01:53:23.760 --> 01:53:25.760
life is over well exactly.

2168
01:53:25.960 --> 01:53:28.039
And the thing is is that many of these these

2169
01:53:28.079 --> 01:53:31.960
women and men go on and become healers themselves because

2170
01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:34.920
they say, look at hey, I was blind now I see.

2171
01:53:35.359 --> 01:53:40.359
And the difference is is Jesus, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

2172
01:53:40.760 --> 01:53:40.920
You know.

2173
01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:42.880
We see in the Gospels so many of those that

2174
01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:45.159
Jesus healed, you know, they were so eager to go

2175
01:53:45.199 --> 01:53:47.279
out and tell everybody else. Even in some cases where

2176
01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:49.800
Jesus told them to get quiet for a while, they couldn't,

2177
01:53:49.840 --> 01:53:53.039
they couldn't resist help. They told, and they told the story.

2178
01:53:53.039 --> 01:53:55.119
And so as you know, that's our that's our Silent

2179
01:53:55.159 --> 01:53:57.680
No More campaign where those that have come through healing,

2180
01:53:57.680 --> 01:54:00.920
whether Rachel's Vineyard or other healing programs, they want to.

2181
01:54:00.920 --> 01:54:02.479
Share their story, so we help them.

2182
01:54:02.520 --> 01:54:04.199
We help them first of all to discern that the

2183
01:54:04.239 --> 01:54:06.520
time is right to do so, because of course you

2184
01:54:06.560 --> 01:54:08.560
want to tell your family first, people in your life

2185
01:54:08.600 --> 01:54:10.520
that matter. You don't want them find it out about

2186
01:54:10.520 --> 01:54:12.159
your abortion through YouTube, you know.

2187
01:54:12.399 --> 01:54:14.079
But once you've, once.

2188
01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:16.079
You've come through healing, once you've informed the people in

2189
01:54:16.119 --> 01:54:18.520
your life that need to know, then you know there

2190
01:54:18.560 --> 01:54:21.880
are appropriate avenues then for people to start sharing their stories.

2191
01:54:21.880 --> 01:54:23.520
And I want to invite our listeners to go to

2192
01:54:23.560 --> 01:54:27.520
abortion Testimonies dot com. They can read all sorts of testimonies,

2193
01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:31.239
see the videos, look at the different circumstances abortion Testimonies

2194
01:54:31.520 --> 01:54:33.479
dot com. And what that does is the number one,

2195
01:54:33.479 --> 01:54:36.079
it warns people that there are bad after effects of abortion.

2196
01:54:36.399 --> 01:54:38.560
Number two, it reminds those that are in pain and

2197
01:54:38.600 --> 01:54:41.880
grief that there is hope and healing. And number three,

2198
01:54:42.039 --> 01:54:44.119
it tells all of us, whether we've been involved in

2199
01:54:44.159 --> 01:54:46.680
abortion or not, we all have sins. It reminds us

2200
01:54:46.720 --> 01:54:49.560
there's a savior, a savior who loves us and who

2201
01:54:49.560 --> 01:54:51.720
wants to forgive us more than we want to be forgiven.

2202
01:54:52.279 --> 01:54:54.199
Exactly, Father, we got about a minute and a half left.

2203
01:54:54.239 --> 01:54:56.199
I'm going to let you summarize it. You're at a

2204
01:54:56.239 --> 01:55:00.239
conference now, and of course you know we continue to

2205
01:55:00.279 --> 01:55:03.439
support the message and want to come alongside you and

2206
01:55:03.479 --> 01:55:06.199
co labor in any way possible, So go ahead.

2207
01:55:06.279 --> 01:55:08.680
Well, I must that I appreciate. That's what I love

2208
01:55:08.760 --> 01:55:11.279
most about these interviews is inviting our audience to stay

2209
01:55:11.319 --> 01:55:13.520
in touch with us on an ongoing basis. And if

2210
01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:16.840
you like what you've heard here, you'll love our daily broadcasts,

2211
01:55:16.880 --> 01:55:20.479
our literature, our books. Our main website is pro life Central,

2212
01:55:20.720 --> 01:55:24.119
so proifecentral dot org and dot com. They both work

2213
01:55:24.439 --> 01:55:27.680
and people will see we have a wide variety of ministries,

2214
01:55:27.720 --> 01:55:30.319
including work for pastors. That's where I am now here

2215
01:55:30.359 --> 01:55:34.399
in Virginia National Pastors Conference, material for churches, prayer campaigns,

2216
01:55:34.439 --> 01:55:37.399
political involvement, and as well as the healing that we've

2217
01:55:37.439 --> 01:55:40.960
just been talking about so much. Please go to profecentral

2218
01:55:41.000 --> 01:55:43.920
dot com. Sign up for our emails, watch our programming,

2219
01:55:44.079 --> 01:55:47.439
order our materials. We love to be collaborating with each

2220
01:55:47.479 --> 01:55:49.039
and every person who's listening right now.

2221
01:55:49.520 --> 01:55:53.680
Well, Father Frank Pavone is also the pastoral director at

2222
01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:58.319
Rachel's Vineyard Project. And that's another website too, right, Father Frank.

2223
01:55:58.439 --> 01:55:59.960
It is Rachel's Vinyard dot org.

2224
01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:02.279
Yes, yes, and they can also get there by the

2225
01:56:02.319 --> 01:56:05.359
main website. But Rachel's been your dot org. Fantastic work

2226
01:56:05.359 --> 01:56:05.760
of God.

2227
01:56:06.239 --> 01:56:10.319
Well, Father Frank, God bless you and thanks Bill. May

2228
01:56:11.079 --> 01:56:14.520
the Father's face continue to shine upon you and amen

2229
01:56:14.800 --> 01:56:18.560
and just pour his piece out upon you and your ministry.

2230
01:56:18.600 --> 01:56:20.760
Thank you so much, Father, you take care of you us.

2231
01:56:20.760 --> 01:56:22.479
We are very grateful. God bless you too.

2232
01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:26.720
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