Lost And Broken-My Journey Back from Chronic Pain and Crippling Anxiety

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show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

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FORCY Radio. Well, good afternoon, and thanks for joining us to share

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a part of your day and some
of your time. As we're going to

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be talking with Congressman Adam Smith.
What an incredible story that he shares with

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us and documents in his book Lost
and Broken, My Journey back from chronic

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pain and crippling Anxiety. You might
be able to relate to this, I

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mean, for him, it was
an early morning of April of twenty sixteen.

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He wakes up and seriously considers the
possibility that he might never be able

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to get out of bed. Could
you imagine that this is what struck the

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congressman After a very successful career,
He's at the height of his career.

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Things are going you roses and rainbows, as they say, But he finds

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himself in this dark place after years
long struggle with debilitation, anxiety, and

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searing peelsical pain that sent him to
a dark place from which he feared he

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would never recover. Others he was
at the pinnacle of success. As I

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stated, if you knew that every
day was a relentless battle to struggle,

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millions of Americans know too well and
can relate to from dealing with the pain

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and depression through a healthcare system that
seemed lacking or disconnected, and all the

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self determination you could possibly mount up. Let's welcome Congressman Adam Smith to the

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show. Congressman Smith, good to
have you with us. How are you,

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sir, I'm doing great. Bill, Thank you very much for having

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me on. Well. I appreciate
the opportunity to have you back. We

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talked on our radio show several weeks
back, and I said, we've got

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to tell your story to our viewers
here on our TV show that reaches so

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many more people, because yours is
a story that millions of Americans can relate

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to. Yeah, No, I
appreciate that and it's you know, and

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that's really my main goal in these
conversations is to help people navigate these challenges.

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Challenges with chronic pain, challenges with
anxiety and depression. You know,

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there's no one path, and I
don't write the book to say, gosh,

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here it is, here's the you
know, the miracle answer that you

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could go find. It's just,
you know, it's part of how you

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navigate that the things that I learned
about trying to find help for both my

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mental health and my physical health problem. I think telling that story can help

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people in one of the biggest ways. It's just being honest about it,

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because I think a lot of people
struggle with these things, but then they

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struggle with well how do I tell
people? And they try to keep it

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to themselves and they don't get the
help they need. Well, here you

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are, I mean you are in
a noted position. You are a public

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person, you're an elected official,
and you have to maintain a certain you

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know, presentation and image. I
mean, we're seeing this right now before

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our eyes. I mean, you've
got you know, the the minority leader

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of the Senate freezing up. We've
got people who look like they're dealing with

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some ailments within our bureaucracy. But
you know, whether it's the bureaucracy,

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whether it's at the workplace, whether
it's at home. I mean, the

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one thing that happened to you is
equal opportunity. Whether you're a Republican or

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Democrat, it doesn't matter, it's
you know, all of humanity is subject

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to you know, these kind of
challenges, right, Yeah, Well,

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that's one big point I want to
make. There are certainly unique aspects from

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my story given that I'm an elected
representative, a member of Congress. What

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I really trying to emphasize in the
book, I mean, no matter who

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you are, you know, you
have responsibilities in your life, You have

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an idea of who you are,
You have relationships, you know, family,

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friends, your your job, and
when you get hit with something like

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this, all of that is challenged. No matter what you know, where

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you're at and any of that.
I think it's a pretty equal opportunity thing

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that you really struggle to figure out
how do I deal with it while at

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the same time maintaining the life that
I want. It is an incredibly disorienting

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experience. Well, it is all
encompassing and emptying. Uh. I imagine

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through this process, you discovered parts
of your character and maybe your own soul

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that you didn't know about before.
Oh. Absolutely. I mean when I

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get to the end of this and
I start the book out as you describe

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it's sort of my lowest point in
twenty sixteen, and then explain how I

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got there, go back through you
know about about of depression, a couple

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bouts of anxiety, the surgeries I
went through. But you know, by

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the end of it, the way
I describe it is, I understand my

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mind and my body and who I
am better than I ever have And in

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doing that it it just makes life
well so much better, so much more

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enjoyable, and there is so much
less pain in it once you have that

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understanding of who you truly are.
Was that the essence of your constitution even

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growing up, that you were always
that way, that if anything happened,

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you would search for the root of
the problem. Yeah, I think there

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were several aspects to sort of my
core personality. Obviously growing up. One

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of them was massive insecurity and fear, and that was part of the root

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of what I had to get at
to understand my anxiety. But then also,

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yeah, I was always very determined
for whatever reason. Well, I

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hate to lose in any sort of
concept and that and that motivated me.

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And then I've always been very analytical. I think part of you know,

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the insecurity and fear when I was
a kid is I was is wrong to

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say that I was a loaner,
but I was very comfortable being alone.

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I would find those times to go
do something. I go shoot baskets,

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you know whatever, And so I
had a lot of time to think,

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all right, just to sort of
Okay, what's going on in the world,

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what do I want? So Yeah, that that desire to be analytical

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about things did help me as I
was trying to navigate through the difficult challenges

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I faced. Now, when you
get to that point where you're thinking,

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wow, this could be it,
I mean I may not be able to

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get out of bed, do you
start trying to understand and deal with your

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mortality. Yeah, a little bit, I think at the time, and

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that it was part part of my
anxiety as well. Was you know,

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something we all go through. I
mean, what's the purpose of life?

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What are we doing here? I'm
giving that you know, death is inevitable,

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how does that fit into it?
And I think when I hit that

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really really low point. Actually,
one of the things that helped me was,

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for at least a little bit,
I stopped trying to figure everything out,

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and I said, I just I
just got to get through the day.

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Yeah, I'm just gonna I'm just
going to make it through whatever is

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in front of me. You know, just keep keep going, and you

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know, just not think that I'm
going to have all the answers, which

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ultimately is one key aspect of mental
health, by the way, isn't it.

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Yeah, what is? Well,
that's that's kind of the purpose of

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meditation, which is an outloine in
my book. I struggled with because when

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the anxiety was hitting, it's like, well, meditation, that's what you're

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supposed to do, calm your brain
down at everything. But it took me

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a long time to truly understand what
admit It doesn't mean that you get to

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the point where all thoughts go out
of your head and you just sit in

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a chair like a Buddhist monk for
a half hour. What you learn is

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you don't have to react to everything
that comes at you. You can give

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your mind a break, and so
when you're meditating, it's just a matter

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of thoughts feelings, emotions, sounds, it all comes in, Notice it

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and let it go, and learning
to do that is a real key part

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of mental health, without a doubt. We're talking with Congressman Adam Smith,

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a member of Congress who represents the
ninth district of the state of Washington.

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He was reelected to his fourteen term
in twenty twenty two has been the top

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Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee
since eleven. Through all that you went

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through, Congressman, I got to
imagine that this made you better in every

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aspects of who you are as a
person, you know, in terms of

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your family, and also as an
elected official. It has and and you

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know, so I went through three
and a half years worth of psychotherapy,

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which is what really helped me understand
the sort of hidden sources of some of

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my anxiety and concerns and deal with
those issues. But even after I accepted,

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which took a while, some of
the basic things that my psychologist was

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telling me, one big sticking point
remained and that was, you know,

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he kept telling me that I was
going to be a different person. And

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it's a very unsettling thing. And
you know, particularly when you know I

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was like fifty fifty one years old
at the time, you know, and

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it's like, yes, I have
all these problems. But on the other

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hand, who I am or who
I was had worked out reasonably well for

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me, all right. I'd been
a successful I started from not much,

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you know, and made a very
successful career. I have a good marriage

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show but good relationship with my children. I'm like, and now you're telling

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me to be somebody different, you
know? Is that going to war?

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But what I learned and the way
I sum it up is in twenty nineteen

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I went. It was my first
year as chairman of the House Arm Services

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Committee, and we had a rather
epic struggle to pass the Defense Bill that

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year, which was a huge challenge. And what I learned was I was

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every little bit as determined, obsessive, if you will, focused, hardworking,

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But having gone through that therapy and
understand myself better, what I did

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was as I say, I did
it all the same, except without the

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anger and self fatulation. I didn't
get angry as much, and I didn't

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beat myself up, and that it
doesn't make you less of a person.

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It just gives you greater peace while
you're doing what you're doing, so you

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can get to the person and still
maintain who you are. And I got

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to imagine it's strengthened you. Yes, absolutely right, And again that's you

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know, this is personal strength,
inner strength that we're talking about. It's

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not necessarily a strength. It's just
going to overpower something money. But you

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know, to be about your work
and about your responsibilities and as you said,

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to have a sense of piece.
How much is that worth? No,

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it's it's incredible now, it's I
and I'll tell you I outlined this

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in the book. And you know, it's like banging your head against the

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wall. It feels so good when
you stopped. All right, just once

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I got through this whole thing,
Yeah, there was there was a level

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of joy that I hadn't really experienced
previously in life. How did your family

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respond to this, Congressman? It
was very difficult. I mean it was

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really hard. I mean I had
my first bout of really difficult anxiety when

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my children before and won. Now
that only lasted for about five months or

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so, but when it came back
in twenty thirteen, it was a six

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year struggle. And so and my
kids at that point when it started,

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we're thirteen and ten. Yeah,
really active age, and then when my

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physical stuff started. You know,
my son's a big soccer player. I

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used to go play play soccer with
him. You know, I couldn't do

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it. I couldn't get out there. It was really hard on them,

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you know, but we stuck together
and got through it. But I'm not

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going to sugarcoat it. It was
really difficult for my family exactly. Well,

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and this is what we appreciate about
what you've written and lost and broken.

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I mean, you're very vulnerable.
Well, one of the things I

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learned in this process is one of
the other keys to mental health. You've

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got to be honest. And that's
hard gonna be honest with yourself. I

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mean you can lie to other people, don't lie to yourself. All right,

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you know about what in your life
is making you upset, What are

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you happy about, what aren't you
happy about? What in your past still

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bugs you one way or the other. You really have to be open and

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honest, lay it all out there, and then you can deal with it

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mentally and get through it. So
writing this book was, you know,

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it's therapeutic for me. I put
it out there. And then the second

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thing is, like I want people
to learn that same lesson to feel comfortable

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being able to talk about things like
this, because that's a key to getting

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better. You know, in reading
your book, I can see the national

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relevance and the impact that this could
have. I know you did this for

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yourself and for your family, But
I think that we may find out down

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the road is the things that you've
experienced, and as your leadership continues to

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be demonstrated as an elected official out
of the state of Washington, is that

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this is going to be a true
blessing, you know, for the crucible

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that you went through. Yeah.
Look, I mean conflict is a central

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problem we have in this country right
now, you know, I mean we

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have a hard time getting along.
You know, if you're you sort of

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form your team and then you imagine
that anyone who's on the other team isn't

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worth dealing with. And you know, part of the way you resolve differences

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is number One, to understand your
own mental health, because if your own

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mental health isn't in a good place
and you're angry in your own edge,

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it's going to be more difficult to
deal with others. But second, you

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know, you know, one of
the central amisses that I learned that I

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didn't know is that we are all
we all have inherent self worth. Okay,

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it's kind of a Buddhist principle.
We are all worthy of love is

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the phrase which I didn't believe,
which is long and complicated to explain.

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But once you accept that, once
you understand that you're not measured by your

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deeds, what you do or don't
do, that there is a core sense

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of worth that you have no matter
what, all right. And that doesn't

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mean that what you do in life
doesn't matter. It does, but it

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doesn't threaten your basic core existence.
Once you've accept that for yourself. One

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of the big steps for me was, all right, if I'm accepting that

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for me, I've got to accept
that for everybody else as well. Exactly,

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Yes, and that when you take
that step, I mean, as

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you know, I mean, politics
has been pretty tough, heories, all

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right, you know, and I'm
not going to name names here, but

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think of you know, from a
Democrats perspective, the most awful Republican out

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there in the world. They've got
as much self forth as I do,

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exactly, And if you approach everyone
with that feeling, with that baseline respect,

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we will get along better as a
society and solve a lot more of

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the problems that we're facing. Yeah, if we focus on the things that

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we can agree on. You know, my son shared something with me,

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uh this past week that I thought
was really profound here Adam, and that

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is that he said that, you
know, God told him to love his

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enemies, so he decided to obey
God and start loving himself. Yeah,

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you know, that's so, that's
so spot on, that's I mean,

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And I said, wow, where
did you get this from? I mean,

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this is one for the ages.
I mean, this is exactly and

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I think this would be quite the
remedy, you know, for our culture.

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I mean, politics is being what
it is. I mean, it's

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it's unfortunately it's reduced itself to become
you know, more pugilistic, which is

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you talk about a waste of energy. And I think that, you know,

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if there was some sort of way
to get everybody together and say,

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okay, what why are we in
this? What? What are we in

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this? For the things that we
can agree on, the first principles of

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you know, for lack of a
better word, you know, making America

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work for all people and uh and
and for all the resources that we have.

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Just like you said, the realization
that that uh, that you are

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of some con you are of a
consequence, that you're not an accident,

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that you are uniquely created and uh
and that's an awesome miracle in and of

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itself, and everybody else is that
way too. So how can we work

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together for the common good there has
nothing to do with party interest, but

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has something has everything to do with
the greater good of all concerned. Yeah,

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now that's the basic approach you want
to key to. It also is

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to understand that it's okay to disagree. And I you know, a lot

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of times, you know, you've
got these people who aren't really involved in

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politics. Sorry, they aren't.
They aren't involved in governing politics. If

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you have a pulse, you are
involved in politics. You know, if

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if you if you encounter any other
human being, you're involved. Because politics

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is how you try to get along
with people. But on the government side,

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there tends to be this oh,
you know, why can't they all

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just get along. I don't understand
all the bickering and all the arguing.

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It's so silly. It's like,
no, it's not silly. We're talking

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about really significant disagreements. Issue is
let's not pretend like there's nothing to disagree

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about. Let's deal with the reality
that we have to figure out how to

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disagree in a productive way that keeps
peace. How do we resolve our differences

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peacefully and through respect and through legitimate
debate and argument. So that's what I

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think would would really help us deal
with the challenges we face politically as a

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country, well from my purview,
and I think this is where leadership comes

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into play, is it. Sometimes
you've got to kind of wrangle all the

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cats up together and go, okay, look at quit scratching each other's eyes

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out. It's okay. Debate is
good because when we look back and the

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empirical evidence, and it's quite clear
historically, is that we're better when we're

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debating and there are differences, you
know, as what was brilliantly said,

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if if there are two people in
the same room agreeing on the same thing,

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one is redundant and unnecessary. You
know, we need to have that

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conflict because when we have that conflict
and we come to a solution that is

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you know, is more representative of
both sides, everybody wins as a result.

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And that's been my observation. Am
I off on that? No?

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I mean one of the big things
that I worry about, you know,

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is I think what we need to
do is you need to seek out opinions

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that disagree with you. And I
do you know, when I'm scrolling through

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real clear politics or whatever, just
looking at stories. If there's story up

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there that makes a provocative statement that
is that I don't agree with, I'm

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clicking on it. I want to
I want to know, you know.

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And part of it, you know, part of it is, yes,

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I want to learn maybe I'm missing
something. Part of it is to be

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honest, you know, I believe
in what I'm doing. I want to

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hear what the other argument is so
I can counterate better. Yeah. But

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now what we seem to do is
we scroll through and we just look for

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the stuff that reinforces what we already
believe. And honestly, I think a

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lot of the reason we do that
is because of baseline mental health. We

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have insecurities that we can't deal with. We are too insecure in our core

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of who we are that we talked
about a moment ago, that we need

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that constant reaffirmation. Whereas if you're
secure you're like someone disagrees with me,

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that's fine. Heck, if I
turn out to be wrong, that's fine.

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You know, I'll learn, I'll
grow. But I think we're so

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like No, if I'm wrong,
that challenges my fundamental idea of myself.

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It shouldn't exactly. I gotta tell
you. One of the life changing experiences

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for me was when I was studying
Herlett Packard and I came from a business

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world though in broadcasting, but I
was very involved with business. Is that

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you weren't allowed to make a mistake. I mean, it was like an

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ethema. I mean it was all
you know, short of being publicly scourged,

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beaten, and fired, you couldn't
make a mistake. And I was

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so relieved and excited to appreciate the
culture that Hewlett Packard had established in their

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organization, and that was that they
celebrated mistakes because that's when you learn.

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And I thought about that. It
was really life changing for me, really

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altered my perspective dramatically, and seeing
how an organization like Hewlett Packard could embrace,

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embrace mistakes and grow as a result
of that. Yeah, no,

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And I think that's the culture that
you have to build now any of you

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do it, and you do it
in a supportive way, We're going to

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get better. We're going to figure
this out exactly. So, uh,

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you know, for all that you
were going through and your colleagues there in

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congresses, he said, I mean
some of this. I mean you weren't

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wide open. Not everybody knew about
the battles that you were going through.

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But for some that did and witnessed
the change in your life. I got

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to imagine that you really encourage them. Yeah, well, actually it's fine.

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I tell the story in the book. Michael Turner is a member of

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Congress from Ohio. We've been on
the Armed Services together together for his entire

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like twenty years, you know,
and we battled from time to time,

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you know. And I was in
the middle of all this, I don't

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know. Twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen, I was waiting by an elevator when

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he walked up and he said,
you know, you know, Adam,

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I just gotta tell you I really
admire you. And I looked at him

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like, okay. He said,
no, everyone can see how much pain

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you're in and you keep doing the
job every day. So yes, I

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think there was that connection with my
colleague. And I also want to say,

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you know, I had an incredible
support system, and I think that's

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one important thing in all of this. A lot of people think in terms

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of well, you're a member of
Congress, you have access to everything.

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That's not actually entirely true. I
don't have that much money. A b

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our healthcare is okay, it's not
great. But what I did have,

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I had a lot of people around
me who supported me, you know,

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on the Armed Services Committee, my
staff, my family, my friends,

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you know that really helped. I
could not have gotten through this without that

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support. I want you to expand
on that a little bit more because that

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is one of the things that we
hear repeatedly for you know, people who

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can relate to the story and you
know, a network, a network of

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you know, family, friends,
colleagues. How important that served in the

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healing process for them. Yeah.
Well, and I'll tell you it's one

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of the big challenges we have in
society right now as we've sort of broken

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down some of the traditional communities that
people would have. You know, I

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mean people don't go to church as
much, they don't belong to church as

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they don't have that community, you
know, a lot of the service clubs

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that were such a big part of
you know, bowing up, you know,

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the you know, the Elks Club
or whatever where you would go when

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you'd have this sense of community,
we sort of spread out and we don't

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have that same connection even families or
more spread apart. It's now more the

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norm that if you have children,
they wind up living someplace quite a ways

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away from you. So I think
figuring out how do we rebuild those connections

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so that when people do struggle,
they have some basic support system around them.

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And I know a lot of people
have written about this. I think

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was it David Brooks someone to order
a book called Bowling Alone? I think

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somebody else, but really sort of
walked through this as as families became more

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dispersed. As community, you need
that support system. And I think it's

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something we need to think about from
a public policy standpoint well and even as

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a personal uh you know, decision
and choice. And I think that this

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is one of the things more and
more our country is realizing, is the

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importance of family. And you know, we see these communities that are so

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devastated because the fathers, you know, we have an epidemic of fatherlessness for

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example, in our communities and society
is paying a big price, and especially

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these young kids that are left without
a parent, and we have so many

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you know, single parent households in
our country. Yeah, well, you

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need to build the support systems in
the community. And look, I'm I'm

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both, I guess I'm both conservative
and liberal on this. And the conservative

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side, I think, you know, meet your responsibilities to your family,

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and I think we need to emphasize
that, we need to encourage people to

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do that. But I also,
you know, and this is the wrong

351
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show to quote Hillary Clinton, and
I understand that, but I mean,

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no, that's okay, a win
a minute, no, no, no,

353
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no, no, because look,
I know some people and I shared

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this with you, some people.
Bill, you know, uh, you

355
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know, you have been one of
the few Democrats they have coming. All

356
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Democrats, all parties, all minds
are welcome on this show. I mean,

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I would hope that people do not
perceive us as being so ideologically fixed

358
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that we can't set another viewpoint.
Okay, And she said, okay,

359
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but but but go ahead the whole. It takes a village there, Okay,

360
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right now, now, where I
think Democrats need to be careful is

361
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when they decide. It takes a
village. Therefore there isn't a personal responsibility

362
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piece of it. You know,
the village is going to be responsible.

363
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I'm not going to be responsible.
I can do what I want now.

364
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Now it's both okay, you need
you know, you know, neighbors and

365
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community members and also folks who are
going to help out families. But you

366
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also need as a cornerstone a very
strong family. Will you meet the responsibilities

367
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to each other? See, and
I think we need to reforce reinforce that

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right now. Like you said,
uh, you know, one of the

369
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things we talk about on our show
is returning to first principles, returning to

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those things that worked. I mean, right now, we find ourselves,

371
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uh, you know, with a
lot of I don't know, open minded

372
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ideas. As my mentor used to
say, sometimes you can be so open

373
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minded that your brains have fallen out. But I believe in in in the

374
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human experience that learns uh and defines
their preference based on you know, defining

375
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the you know, the law gravity
for example, you can define you know,

376
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the law gravity is still there,
and you can devise defy certain things,

377
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and you can blow up the family
and then complain that the institution is

378
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not working as it should. But
you have to remember here you are.

379
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:52.079
You're the one that's holding the matches
and the dynamite stick. Okay, so

380
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.799
let's let's be a part of the
solution. Let's get back to first principles

381
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and realize what a key and important
building block to our society the family unit

382
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.119
is. Right, Yeah, no, And I think that's one of the

383
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:08.000
political problems that we have. And
this is true on both the left and

384
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:12.319
the right. Where you go looking
for those big solutions, I'm going to

385
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:18.880
fundamentally rework human existence to now let's
yeah, there's challenges, but there's also

386
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.960
some baselines in terms of how we
should treat each other and how we should

387
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organize a community. And I think
part of the problem is it's hard work.

388
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.480
Okay. None of what we're talking
about here is just going to come

389
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.920
easy, all right, and it's
not always going to be successful. I

390
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.160
mean, I I I've been married
for thirty years, I've got two kids,

391
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:42.279
get it. But you know,
we could take a little picture of

392
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.559
a day or a moment where you'd
be, oh my gosh, there's no

393
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.880
way that family staying together Okay,
you know, I think, and this

394
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.599
is part of the problem we have
with Facebook and Instagram. Oh here we

395
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.559
are, you know, on the
beach and the family everything. No one

396
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.920
takes a picture, as I like
to say, when you're when you're one

397
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.119
year olds throwing up at two o'clock
in the morning and you're sleeping and you

398
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.119
and your wife are arguing over who's
supposed to get up and deal with it.

399
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:10.759
Okay, no one's putting out on
Instagram, all right, but trust

400
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:15.079
me, it happens all right,
even in seemingly happy, stable families.

401
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.799
And I think if we had that
better understanding of it, it's difficult.

402
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.799
There's no miracle solution here. We
got to work through these things. We

403
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:29.279
got to stop taking ourselves so seriously. We are, after all, human

404
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.000
beings. Uh you know, frail
at times, Uh, you know,

405
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:38.640
falling, We're we can make our
mistakes. Nobody is perfect and it's just

406
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:42.039
a process. But again, you
know, what is what is the higher

407
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.920
call? What's the higher reason?
As you mentioned before, you know,

408
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.759
it's it's just it really is about
loving one another. If we remember you

409
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.920
know that, you know, am
I loving you more or less? If

410
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.720
if that's the north star of the
relationship. I think that can go along

411
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:07.640
and how that can apply in business
or even in the contentious you know,

412
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.559
legislative experience. Right. Yeah,
Well, what I was trying to do.

413
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.720
I try to be competitive, but
not overly selfish. I mean,

414
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.039
nothing wrong with working for what you
want or whatever team it is you're part

415
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:22.000
of wants. But while you're doing
that, always understand that you're part of

416
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.039
the larger humanity. I forget if
we mentioned this on the radio show,

417
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:29.839
but I had a good friend of
mine who's a very successful businessman, who

418
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.359
told me a couple of years back. He said, if I'm doing a

419
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:34.559
deal and if at the end of
that deal, I got everything that I

420
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:38.480
wanted, I know I screwed it
up, all right, because it's a

421
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.559
mutual thing, all right. Whoever
I'm dealing with, they got to behold

422
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:47.640
too because we're going to work together
as a community. So having that desire

423
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.640
for a fair result while you're also
pursuing what you want. It's not easy

424
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.119
to balance. But it's far far
better when we try well in the long

425
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:03.079
run, because otherwise you continue on
with the relationship and the other person has

426
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:07.119
a flat tire. It becomes an
annoyance and when you need their cooperation,

427
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.440
it's not there. Uh, you
know, And like you said, I

428
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:18.000
don't know. I just was raised
early at them with this win win idea

429
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.880
in my business solutions, and I
found experientially when it's win win, you

430
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.759
know, just like your your buddy
said, is that you know, if

431
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.039
you get everything and if it's at
the expense of the other person, that's

432
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:37.079
not that's not good. Yeah,
it's not sustainable, right exactly. So

433
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:42.920
here here we are in this contentious, as you describe, political environment that

434
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.319
we're in. Uh, what do
you see happening when you're on break?

435
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.000
Right now? We've got a session, new session coming up. We get

436
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:56.240
some important issues to deal with.
Not to mention the emerging threats of you

437
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:02.480
know, of China, Russia.
Still you continues and you know, not

438
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:07.559
to mention you know, thirty two
wars that are happening all at the same

439
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.839
time around the world. Yeah.
Now I'm worried about it. And my

440
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.599
core principle is that the United States
has a hugely important role to play in

441
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.000
all of that. Now, I'm
familiar enough with our history that I know

442
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.799
we haven't always done that right,
and that we've made mistakes. But when

443
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:27.759
you're looking at what's going to bring
greater stability to the globe, US needs

444
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:32.720
to be part of that. We
should not disengage from the rest of the

445
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.759
world exactly. We have to work
with our partners and allies. Going it

446
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.200
alone is not going to work.
But we need to be involved and engaged.

447
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.039
I think in the US, you
know, there's there's mixed opinions about

448
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.920
that on both the left and the
right. So we have to stay engaged

449
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.599
in a positive way. I think, you know, domestically, as I

450
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.640
said, you know, how are
we going to get along well enough to

451
00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.519
resolve the differences that we face and
keep governing? When we were coming back

452
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.559
into session here in a week and
a half, you know, we got

453
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.279
the appropriations bills coming. I'm worried
about the supplemental. By the way,

454
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.920
I think Ukraine is making a lot
more progress than the counter offensive than people

455
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:16.079
widely understand. And I also think
that US interests are directly at stake if

456
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:21.920
Russia can simply come in and brutalize
and destroy our country, So how are

457
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:24.480
we going to resolve that? And
look, hanging over all of this is

458
00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:30.480
the debt and the deficit. You
know, there's what we've fallen into.

459
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:32.160
And by the way, I've got
elected in Congress long enough ago that we

460
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.480
actually balanced the budget the first four
years I was in Congress and had a

461
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:40.440
surplus, So it is possible.
What we're doing now is a lot of

462
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:46.039
people are comfortable complaining about the deficit
and the debt. Nobody's comfortable saying,

463
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:50.559
Okay, here's what we need to
do about it, because there's even easy

464
00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:53.880
here. All right. You know, you raise taxes or you cut spending.

465
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.559
People don't like their taxes raised and
they don't like their spending cut,

466
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.880
so they're gonna be difficult decisions trying
trying to figure this out. What I

467
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:06.640
fear now is that we're just going
to paralyze our government. We're not actually

468
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:08.720
going to deal with the deficit,
but we're not going to be able to

469
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.400
make a decision, so things get
shut down and we don't fund the government.

470
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:19.000
And from a DoD perspective, Department, sorry, right, if we

471
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.359
can't pass the appropriations bills, it's
really going to undermine our national security.

472
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.319
Well, like all issues of management, you know, the onus is on

473
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:29.599
man, it's on the team.
You've got to make this work. Like

474
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.400
you said, Yeah, some of
these things are difficult, but you know,

475
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:36.359
like John F. Kennedy said,
hey, look at we choose to

476
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.880
go to the moon, not because
it's easy, but because it's hard.

477
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:43.359
Uh. You know, democracy is
hard, There's no doubt about it.

478
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.559
But you know, along the way, one of the things that I think

479
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.960
is lacking, Adam, is that
you know, it's okay if we mess

480
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.000
up, if we mess up,
it's okay to tell the people, look

481
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.599
at we messed up. You know, here's what we learned. You know,

482
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.359
for example, you know, you
know, with all the we went

483
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.920
through, and I just want to
touch on this lightly. Uh, you

484
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:07.119
know, for example, with the
pandemic, let's just be vulnerable. Let's

485
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:08.159
be honest about it. What did
we get right? What do we get

486
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:15.440
wrong? Don't don't you know,
put out a narrative that is unbelievable to

487
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:20.000
people and that it is in conflict
with their direct experience. Yeah. I'm

488
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:22.559
two big points in what you just
said. Number one on the pandemic and

489
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:28.039
elsewhere we're driven by ideology instead of
practical common sense problem solving. A man,

490
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.000
practical common sense problem solving is what's
going to get you there. Not

491
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.599
thinking that you have some ten point
plan that's going to solve the world's problems.

492
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.280
You have to react to the circumstances
in front of you. And then

493
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.760
the second thing when you were talking
to that that I was thinking about was

494
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.440
the idea of developing resiliency. As
you said, we're going to fail.

495
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:47.559
We have to learn and go through
that. And on the mental health side,

496
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.000
you know, I talk a lot
in my book about the stigma surrounding

497
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.239
mental health, and we've we've started
to have a broader conversation about that,

498
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.880
and I think it's really good to
remove that stigma. But the second thing

499
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.519
we have to do with mental health
is understand that we're not just identifying a

500
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.559
problem so we can stare at it. We're identifying a problem so that we

501
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:12.719
can build resiliency. And that's what
I worry about. It's like one of

502
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.079
my outlooks when I first had this
mental health problem. One of the reasons

503
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.119
I didn't want to address it was
because I was like, but no one

504
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.639
can do anything about that. I
mean, psychiatrists don't cure people. What

505
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.920
are you talking about. That's not
true. Actually, you can build resiliency.

506
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.719
So the mission here isn't just Okay, identify your mental health problem so

507
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:36.079
that you understand why your life sucks. Now, identify your mental health problem

508
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.840
so then you can learn to be
more resilient, that you can deal with

509
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.960
more. One of the best quotes
the psychologists ever gave me on this,

510
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:46.239
it's not the amount of stress in
your life, it's how you process it.

511
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:49.880
Exact time she said that to me, I was like, are you

512
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:53.239
kidding me? Which she's right.
You can learn to better process these things,

513
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:57.719
and so we need to teach resiliency. That's a good point, and

514
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.920
especially where we are right now,
I mean at all time high with homelessness

515
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:07.079
and mental issues. I mean I
go back in drug abuse. I mean

516
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.480
I go back to where I was
born and raised and where you know,

517
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.840
much of my broadcast casting career emanated
from in Los Angeles, California, and

518
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.679
i go there on the one on
one freeway, and I'm seeing people,

519
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.119
you know, living in tents on
the overpasses of the freeway. Uh it

520
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:28.800
is, you know, I think
over seventy thousand people just in Los Angeles

521
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:32.000
alone, and and running the whole
gamut like you say that, and the

522
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.400
drug addiction is just exacerbating the problem. All the more you're seeing it there

523
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.639
in Washington, it is heartbreaking.
But if we don't start to do something

524
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:44.760
about it now, I mean,
like you said, we've kind of ignored

525
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.199
it and we're you know, we're
dealing with seventy thousand people right now in

526
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:50.960
Los Angeles. You know, how
much longer is it going to take before

527
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.960
it's one hundred thousand. Yeah,
these are the defenditive problems that we face.

528
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:57.960
I mean, I I you know, sum up, you know,

529
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.719
my job and one of most working
on three broad areas. One is what

530
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.320
I said about, you know,
what's going on in the world, what

531
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.760
positive role can the US play and
dealing with some of the challenges that are

532
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.840
coming and they're there. Two is
the basic governance of the country that I

533
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.599
talked about earlier. You know,
how do we you know, work through

534
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.360
our differences well enough to continue to
function as a democracy that can resolve its

535
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.880
differences even though they are intense,
you can resolve them peacefully, you know.

536
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.320
I always you know, I'm fond
of the quote politics is a substitute

537
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.360
for violence, and what that means
is politics is the way we resolve our

538
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:36.760
differences. And if politics doesn't resolve
our difference. Then violence is what does.

539
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.440
And then the third piece is locally
is what you've talked about, is

540
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:45.840
the behavioral health, homelessness, crime, affordable housing. At the top of

541
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.800
that, we need to better govern, particularly in major urban suburban areas,

542
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.079
major problems and all those issues that
we need to address, you know,

543
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:01.039
going back to session here we are
in a bit of a political quagmire.

544
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:07.920
I mean, we've got a former
president who has been indicted, and we've

545
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:15.679
got the the potential of an impeachment
inquiry taking place. I mean, you're

546
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.559
going to have your hands full,
you know, going back to Congress.

547
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:22.679
Adam. Yeah, Well, and
as with all things in life, I

548
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:24.960
take the same approach to this that
I said I took to you know when

549
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.480
I when I was at my lowest
point with my mental and physical health issue.

550
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.280
Take the next step, you know, try to keep keep things going.

551
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:36.599
Get the basics, right. I
liked what you were saying earlier about

552
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.760
you know, you don't need to
look for the complex. And I always,

553
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.199
I always put it that the shortest
distance between two points is a straight

554
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:45.639
line exactly. So just work on
what you can work on. So I

555
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:47.840
you know, one of the things
I work on is you know, trying

556
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.599
to you know, maintained bi partisan
relationships, certainly on the Armed Services Committee

557
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:57.320
Mike Rodgers as the chairman of the
committee from Alabama. Mike and I are

558
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.719
really good friends. We worked very
well together. You know, we have

559
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:01.920
to pass the defense bill. That's
one of the other things we need to

560
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.000
do when we get back. So
I'm going to work with him to try

561
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.320
to do that and try to maintain
those relationships and do what I can to

562
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.320
move forward in a more positive direction. But you are right, it is

563
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:16.280
going to be a very challenging year
plus to get through the twenty twenty four

564
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.119
election in the next two sessions of
Congress. Well, and like you said

565
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.679
earlier, I mean, we have
to again get back to first principles,

566
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:30.119
realize what we're united for and what
our focus should be. Yes, we've

567
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:35.679
got some of these tough issues politically
that are taking place, but I hope

568
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.159
to God, Mike and I got
to tell you people in an audience what

569
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:45.079
they share with me is that we
do not sacrifice the good, you know,

570
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:51.440
at you know, at the expense
of the these issues that you know

571
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.880
they will pass. I'm confident,
I'm confident in the American people that we

572
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.239
can come together and be united.
I mean, we've got look at the

573
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:07.000
foundation of this country. We have
founding documents that are just unbelievable. They're

574
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:13.199
superior over any other document of any
other country. Two hundred and forty seven

575
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:17.679
years of excellence, not perfection,
because we're striving for it still, but

576
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.440
that doesn't stop us, you know, from striving for it. And that's

577
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.480
what I love. I mean here
here this past week we celebrated, you

578
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:30.960
know, the sixtieth anniversary of Martin
Luther King's I've Got a Dream speech that's

579
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.599
still echoes. You know, I
believe and I still hold to that.

580
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:37.880
Yeah, well I believe about our
country is I mean, obviously, we

581
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.960
were founded on the principle of all
men are created equal and all these other

582
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.840
basic principles, and then you look
at it, you know, the principle

583
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.719
that people should have a say and
how they're governed. At the time we

584
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.440
were founded, what that meant was
white male property owners. Okay, those

585
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:57.440
are the ones who out of vote. But we've built up from there,

586
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:02.280
okay. And that's the thing that
the journey towards a more equal, fair,

587
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:07.639
just society is a journey that never
ends. There's no such thing as

588
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:12.280
the perfectly fair way to handle everything. But we set up a system so

589
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.440
that we can always be working towards
it and getting to one point, and

590
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:20.960
I hope we maintain our belief in
that system. I came up with a

591
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:24.000
quote about a year ago and a
hearing well that when I was chairman,

592
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:29.239
there was some issues coming up where
the committee was going to vote against what

593
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.039
I wanted, and people ask me, you know, well, what are

594
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:34.719
you gonna do about it? And
I said, well, I'm gonna lose,

595
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.840
is what I'm gonna do about it. Okay, you know, I'm

596
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.360
gonna vote, and it's gonna move
and we're gonna move forward. I'm not

597
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:44.519
gonna bring down the whole bill because
of this. And what I said was,

598
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.519
I believe in democracy more than I
believe in my own opinion. Okay,

599
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.159
you know I have my opinion.
I'm going to run it out there.

600
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:53.920
I'm gonna make the arguments, we'll
have the vote, and then we'll

601
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.840
see and then we'll move on.
And I think we got to remember that

602
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:02.079
democracy doesn't mean that you get your
way all the time. It means that

603
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:06.719
there was a fair system set up
so that you can be heard, we

604
00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.760
have a reasonably fair way of resolving
it, and then we move on to

605
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:15.840
the next debate exactly can we have
a moment where we celebrate and say,

606
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.639
you know, two hundred and forty
seven years hasn't been perfect, but well

607
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.079
we you know, just talking about
slavery, talking about you know, if

608
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.159
you if you look at it through
one lens and you say, okay,

609
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:30.519
uh, there was you know,
a lot of white people, so you

610
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.239
know, as you put it that
you know, controlled it. I think

611
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:36.519
it was a little bit maybe broader
in that. I mean, I'm not

612
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:40.000
sure what what white is because you
had so many immigrants involved in the early

613
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:46.119
founding of this country. But that
aside, you know, I think that

614
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:52.840
we've failed to celebrate these moments of
how far we've come, just even from

615
00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:00.000
you know, sixty years ago with
Martin Luther King's expression and his great speed

616
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.280
each of I have a dream.
Yeah, now we've come a long way.

617
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.960
And I think this is one of
the issues that is, it's certainly

618
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:10.599
the most divisive issue right now in
the Armed Services Committee is how do we

619
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.480
deal with the whole diversity, equity
and inclusion thing. And look, I

620
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.480
you know, I am very sympathetic
to the right wing argument that people have

621
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.920
taken that way too far and moved
it in a different direction. But I

622
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.119
am unsympathetic to the idea that it's
an issue that we just don't have to

623
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:30.000
deal with. You know, that
racism isn't a problem the discriment. Now

624
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.320
we're working towards this, And then
let me just say one other thing about,

625
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.800
you know, the founding of our
country. We also need to remember

626
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:39.320
that when our country was founded,
nowhere in the world was there a place

627
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.119
that really truly had a representative democracy. I mean, you have places like

628
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:46.840
England, but the king was still
running things, you had a parliament.

629
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:52.000
But so what we did at that
time. I was in Greece about a

630
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.079
year ago and went up to the
Parthenon and they talked about the origins of

631
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.360
democracy. You know, how many
ever several thousand years ago, but it

632
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.599
all kind of fell apart. You
know, by the time we got to

633
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:08.719
seventeen seventy six, there just weren't
that many governments in the world, arguably

634
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:15.239
any governments that gave the people a
say in how they were governed. Exactly.

635
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.239
Trying to start the whole thing back
up again and we did right,

636
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:22.559
We should be proud of that.
Yeah, and we did it in a

637
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.800
way. I mean, of course, you know, you go to Grace

638
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:29.920
and you look at their example.
But to me, I thought that we

639
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:35.039
took it to the next level in
terms of these foundational principles and what's enumerated

640
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.840
clearly in our Declaration of Independence and
our Constitution, where the people, where

641
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:44.320
the people have the power, it
is the consent of the government governed.

642
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.440
It is about we the people.
And the idea that those three most powerful

643
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:53.679
words in the Constitution. It puts
the onus on the people. It doesn't

644
00:44:53.719 --> 00:45:00.400
allow them to escape responsibility. If
anything, the responsibility the government is more

645
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.599
on their shoulders, isn't it.
Yeah, now, I think that and

646
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:07.639
that's and that's another thing that we
and like I'm biased on this one because

647
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:13.199
obviously I've been an elected official for
thirty three years now, But whenever people

648
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:19.440
talk about what ails our country,
government and everything, they focus exclusively on

649
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.400
elected officials and what's wrong with them. Look, it's a representative democracy.

650
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:27.760
We're in office because you put us
there exactly right, you know, I

651
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:31.840
would say Congress is reflective of the
United States of America and It really is

652
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:37.960
all kinds of interesting points on the
spectrum there, you know. So we

653
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:43.519
all do have to take some measure
of responsibility for our government in a representative

654
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.760
democracy, and I think we need
to do a better job of that.

655
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.639
Let me let me bring up a
sore point here and hopefully you can put

656
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.159
up with me for just a moment, And that has to do with the

657
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:58.519
issue of the deep state. What's
your perspective on that. Yeah, my

658
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.480
perspective is not is it's probably not
one that your your listeners are going to

659
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.679
agree with. The deep state is
the bureaucracy that keeps our government functioning,

660
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.199
all right, and by and large
they do a really good job, you

661
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:15.000
know, of moving the government forward. And you know, there's no there's

662
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:19.239
no way to sort of dance around
this without getting into Donald Trump. Donald

663
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.960
Trump's a unique person in terms of
how we ran the White House, okay,

664
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:27.079
and he had a unique vision of
how it was he should you know,

665
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.480
the bureaucracy doesn't exist solely to serve
whoever happens to be sitting in the

666
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:36.559
White House. And my view is
the President Trump never really understood that,

667
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.360
and that created a lot of conflict, you know, But the notion that

668
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.360
there's some sort of bureaucracy that's undermining
everything I don't agree with. I mean,

669
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:47.159
I think they're they're set up to
try to make sure that our government

670
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:52.159
functions and all the different part departments
that we are, in fact a nation

671
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.559
of laws, not of individuals.
Now, they've made decisions that I didn't

672
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:00.679
agree with you on one side or
another. But again that's the nature of

673
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:05.280
a democratic system of government. You
don't always get what you want. Yeah,

674
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.639
but the deep state isn't on its
own. I mean, if we're

675
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:15.400
a representative government, they shouldn't be
making any decisions apart from the legislative branch,

676
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.639
should they. Well, see,
that's not true in the following sense.

677
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:22.280
Okay, we make the laws,
we set them up, but it's

678
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.679
not like we're passing off some oracle
that says, okay, when this comes

679
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.119
up, this is the decision you
have to make. All right. We

680
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:34.079
offer the parameters, you know,
the Justice Department. Okay, we say

681
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:37.159
this is illegal, all right if
somebody does this. But okay, what

682
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:43.519
exactly happened in that case is the
United States Congress going to come trotten on

683
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:45.360
down to the courthouse and go,
Well, I don't think that witness is

684
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.440
telling the truth. So I don't
really think you should bring those charges.

685
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:54.280
Inherent in any system of government is
individuals are going to have to implement the

686
00:47:54.360 --> 00:48:00.159
laws and make decisions, all right, And they don't have perfect knowledge when

687
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:02.440
they're making those decisions. They have
to interpret them and whether again you know,

688
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:07.920
Justice Department, hell, the agg
department, who qualifies for this subsidy?

689
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:09.639
Where the law says this? But
you know what, this is a

690
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:15.360
slightly different situation. So people in
a bureaucracy, whether you're talking city,

691
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:21.159
state, county, federal, they
are going to have to interpret stuff that

692
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:24.599
comes forward to them and make decisions. Now, it is absolutely true,

693
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:29.119
and I've dealt with bureaucrats again for
thirty three years now. There are some

694
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:34.360
who are more ideological than others,
you know, who are trying to push

695
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:38.679
their agenda instead of the law,
even within that leeway that I said.

696
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:44.360
But that happens on the left,
it happens on the right. But if

697
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.760
we're setting up a system, look, the only alternative to that is fascism.

698
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:52.480
Okay, you know the alternative where
Okay, he's the person in charge,

699
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:57.280
he's making Yeah, exactly, I
say, he but whoever, you

700
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:01.519
have to empower people to make these
decisions and understand sometimes they're going to make

701
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.320
a decision you don't agree with them, then we argue about it. I

702
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.920
think it's good that we argue about
it. We should argue, Okay,

703
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:12.559
should Donald Trump be on trial for
you know, having classified documents in his

704
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.159
bathroom? All right, there's a
whole bunch of different things we can talk

705
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.599
about there, and we should.
But a Justice Department person has to make

706
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.639
a decision. And that decision is
not you know, written in the stars

707
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:30.840
somewhere. It depends on facts and
opinions and interpretations. Amen. Well that's

708
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:35.480
a whole other session. Looking forward
to continuing this conversation with you. It's

709
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:38.000
yeah, Look, I'm happy to
come on anytime. I mean, you

710
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:42.840
know, this is great and and
maybe it'll open the door and people go,

711
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.079
hey, you know Bill Martinez,
Yes he's conservative, but he you

712
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.000
know, he can listen to us
and give us a forum in which we

713
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:52.840
can talk because you know, our
audience wants to understand this. Our viewers

714
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:57.199
need to hear hear the other side, and this is critical. As we

715
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:00.480
wrap things up, Congressman again,
the book Journey back from chronic pain and

716
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:06.079
crippling, anxiety, lost and broken. I'm gonna let you summarize it for

717
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.800
you know, about thirty seconds and
how people can get their hands on your

718
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.079
book if you would. Sure.
Yeah, No, It's the story of

719
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:15.280
my battle with you know, I
had chronic pain and I had a mental

720
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.639
health problem sort of. It starts
in the middle when I was at my

721
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.920
lowest point, explains how I got
there, and then crucially explains how I

722
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.800
got out of it. And the
big message of my book is help exists.

723
00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:31.920
If you're suffering from anxiety, depression, chronic pain. There are pathways

724
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.280
available for you to get better books
pretty straightforward. It is available on Amazon.

725
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.000
You can find it there. I
hope, I hope you'll check it

726
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.639
out, and I hope it helps
you or someone in your life dealing with

727
00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:47.840
these challenges. Well, Congressman Adam
Smith, I kind of thank you enough

728
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:55.639
congratulations on the book. Congressman represents
the ninth district of the state of Washington

729
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.840
again, and thank you for being
with us. Appre shit it well,

730
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:04.440
thanks Bill, It's a great conversation. I appreciate the chance for more information

731
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:07.599
and to be a part of this
mighty Martinis movement to return to God and

732
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:09.679
to save our country. Go to
Bill Martinez Show dot com. May God

733
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:13.519
bless you and keep you, make
his face shine upon you. May He

734
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.679
be gracious unto you and give you
peace. Go and be blessed to be

735
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.440
a blessing. Thanks for being with
us. Take care,