The Year That Broke Politics That Still Resonates Today

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FORCY Radio. Well, welcome to
the Bill Martinez Show. Great to have

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you with us, sharing a part
of your day. For more info on

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the show, you can check it
out Bill Martinez Show dot com. We're

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gonna rewind a bit go back to
nineteen sixty eight, the year that broke

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politics and that still resonates today.
In the year that broke politics, collusion

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and chaos in the presidential election of
nineteen sixty eight, our next guest,

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the historian Luke Nicker and author,
draws on previously unexamined archives and numerous interviews

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and up ends conventional understanding of the
crucial presidential campaign between Nixon, Vice President

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Humphrey, and former Alabama Governor George
Wallace. It shows how it created a

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new template and toned for election battles, which still resonates, believe it or

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not, in today's fractured political climate. Look, Nictar, welcome to the

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show. Good to have you with
a sir, oh, thanks for having

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me on well as a historian and
also as a professor of history, an

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opportunity to go back and take a
look at nineteen sixty eight. Why did

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this stick out in your mind that
in such a way that you said,

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Okay, this is a story that
must be told. Well, I think

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often in history, you know,
while there's many many books already written on

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the nineteen sixties, including the nineteen
sixty eight election, I think oftentimes fifty

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years is about enough time for records
to finally be declassified, for personal papers

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to be opened, you know.
And so while this seems like an old

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topic, perhaps to summon your audience, this is really brand new for history

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because this period of history is really
being now being written the late sixties,

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the nineteen seventies, and as you
see in the book, there's lots of

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new evidence that has just been opened
recently exactly. And then when it aligns

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with the contemporary narrative of today.
You go, WHOA, there's a lot

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of similarity of things that have happened
in sixty eight and how they're being cast

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and being revealed and understood here in
the modern era. Yeah, that's right.

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I remember one of the people I
interviewed, Nixon's longtime speechwriter, Ray

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Price. He always used to say
to me, if the eighteen sixties wasn't

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actual was a civil war, then
the nineteen sixties was a kind of proxy

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civil war when you look at how
stirred up the nation was civil on rust,

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the draft, the war in Vietnam, the counterculture movement. And I

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think just as you said there,
I think many people are drawing parallels to

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today's politics. Well, and you
bring up a good point here. You

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would think that we should have learned
from the eighteen sixties. Fast forward one

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hundred years, and here we are
reproducing. So it leads us to believe

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that somehow, maybe we didn't know
the whole truth and nothing but and because

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without knowing the whole truth, how
can you learn enough so that you don't

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repeat the same mistakes? Luke Well, and I you know, of course,

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the national media is always reminding us
that we're more divided than we ever

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have been before. But hold on
a second. You know, people who

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know their history know that as a
nation, we've been through lots of other

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challenges prior to this, right,
And you know, I think also there's

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a reminder here of what history is
or isn't. You know, people will

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sometimes say to me, you know, I wasn't very good at history because

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I couldn't memorize people or places or
dates, when in fact, history is

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much more than that. It's really
never over because what history is is as

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we constantly have new evidence that forces
us to challenge what we thought we knew,

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forces us to challenge our preconceived ideas. It's really a debate about who

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we are as a people and how
we got here and maybe even a glimpse

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of where we're headed next. And
so it's not just the static set of

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events that we all can learn through
through books. It's really are The debate

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is over the meaning and the importance
over the second events. And that's the

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part that never changed, that that
never end is and how much more is

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revealed, Like you said, here, it is fifty years later people are

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talking where before they wouldn't. Archives
are opened up information now available that wasn't

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then. So there's only so much
we can know from present you know,

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from present day history, that will
still be revealed to us down the road,

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you know, many decades forward.
Because that seems to be the pattern,

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and Luke, isn't it it is? You know, And I'm surprised,

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obviously I've a twentieth century US political
historian. But every once in a

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while you read about someone in an
attic who has a trunk of records from

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the Civil War, and we made
a new image of Abraham Lincoln that's never

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been seen, or a document from
the Gettysburg address or something. And so

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I think, you know, even
much further distant events in history, we

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can still discover important new things about. But I think in this book,

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I think the two things that are
the most different of any other book that's

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been written on the nineteen sixties.
First of all, this is the first

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book to have a cooperation from the
four major sides. So I'm going President

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Lyndon Johnson, his vice president Hubert
Humphrey, Richard Nixon, and a governor

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George Wallace. And I was able
to talk to all of the families and

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about eighty five total staffers who are
surprisingly are still around fifty years And I

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make the controversial argument that outgoing President
Lyndon Johnson actually preferred his longtime rival,

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Republican Richard Nixon as his successor in
the White House because Johnson concluded that it

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was better for his own legacy.
And so that's really quite a different take,

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you know, than any other book
on the nineteen sixties, right,

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And that's the collusion that you're talking
about in talking to these four different historical

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figures. Was there an agreement,
was there a convergence in terms of narrative

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of you know, that era of
nineteen sixty eight. Well, the difficult

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thing is, you know, some
of them were closer to the boss,

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so to speak, than others.
Some are more on in the periphery.

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Most of the senior people are gone
now. And one of the most difficult

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things as a writer, you know, as a historian, I spend almost

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every week in an archive. I
was just up at the Reagan Library the

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Nixon Library are both closed here in
southern California. And you know, assembling

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looking at records as a bit like
assembling puzzle pieces, you know, of

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a jigsaw puzzle and you try to
fit together the story at what's new,

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what was overlooked before it's newly released. But records memos don't say a lot

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about personalities and personal networks sometimes,
and so talking to people really does help

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to confirm, well, I do
remember something about that. I don't trust

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fifty year old memories. Myself.
I can't remember what I had for breakfast

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most days. But people, people
who are around who now with the passage

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of time, feel freer to talk
things aren't politically sensitive. People still in

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politics, especially when their bosses are
still in politics, a very unlikely to

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reveal anything that really changes your idea. So I think when you look at

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all the evidence, tapes and documents
and talking to people and you triangulate between

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those, I think that's when it's
possible to come up a new fresh take

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on a subject, even one that's
been written about so many times. Well,

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Luke, help help our viewers understand. For you, as a researcher,

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when you go into a presidential library, you know, how do you

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approach this and you know what does
it look like? Is it, you

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know, a typical library type setting, or you know, is there all

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kinds of you know, special security. And then of course even when you

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actually start dealing with the actual historical
documents, how accessibable are they? Well,

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that's a great question. I used
to be a stafford at CSPAN and

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the best boss I ever had,
Brian Lamb. He loved to ask writers

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that kind of process question, just
like the kind that you're asking there.

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I would say, they're all a
little different. And you look at all

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the archives that are in the back
of the book. Some are federal government,

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some are state government, some are
university campuses that personal papers. The

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most interesting one which has really featured
a lot in the book is the Billy

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GRAHAMLA Library and Archive in Charlotte,
and and some of these records are paper,

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some have been digitized, so you're
looking on a computer screen. Some

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of the originals are very fragile,
so they don't like to serve those to

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reachers researchers unless they really have to. But in case of the grand material,

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it was his records then were at
Wheaton College, his alma mater,

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where he met his future wife,
And there's a building on campus called the

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Billy Graham Center where they have they
else have Chuck Colson's papers and other kind

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of relevant papers for his ministry in
that time period, and the Billy Graham

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papers to see. In the midst
of this research, Billy Graham died at

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age ninety nine in February of twenty
eighteen, and this was totally unexpected to

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me, and the archivist a Wheaton
College said, we had some things here

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that you might want to come look
at, and one researchers looked at them

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for the British royal family, as
it turned out, because he had extensive

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contacts with the royals, but no
one's looked at the rest of him.

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And so I went there and started
going. I referred to a kind of

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in shorthand as the Graham Diaries.
He called it his VIP notebooks. And

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these VIPs were presidents, and because
he lived to be so long, it's

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over fifty volumes of contact with presidents, beginning in nineteen fifty with Harry Truman

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that go all the way to twenty
fourteen with Barack Obama. And it can

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it's verbatim conversation, it's contents of
their prayer life. At times it could

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be a part scrap book kind of
when they're photographed together or a White House

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lunch menu with some notes he might
have scratched on the back or maybe something

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the president leaned over and said to
him. So it's really kind of part

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diary, part scrap book, and
I was allowed to see just kind of

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the the I would call it the
edge of the tip of the iceberg for

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the nineteen sixties, a very small
part of the overall body of records,

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and it shows that he played an
incredible role in the midst of this nineteen

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sixty at election. Incredible. We're
talking with Luke Nicktir his book The Year

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That Broke Politics, Collusion and Chaos
in the Presidential Election of nineteen sixty eight.

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So you're going through the archives of
Billy Graham. His notes probably that

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ran the full gamut of you know, specific quotes, maybe impressions, you

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know, for every president, what's
stuck out, especially for you. Well,

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I guess may before we can get
to that. How much time were

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you able to spend looking at these
archives? Yes, so the grand materials

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are a little different. I mean, you go to a presidential library,

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the National Archives. Those are federal
records, you know, written by people

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who are on the public payroll,
who are accountable to you. Me and

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every other American and so those are
generally open freely, freely, without restriction.

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But you talk about private records.
In the case of Gram's records,

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he was not a public official on
the public payroll, so these records are

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still in private hands. And so
I was allowed to see quite a bit

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of the diary. And then when
it came to I then had to work

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with their General Council's office to get
permission to use what you see in the

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book. And it's and it's,
it's, it's and they were very cooperative

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and very easy to work with.
I think my key takeaways are, you

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know, I think Graham always considered
himself to be a lifelong Democrat, kind

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of a conservative, moderate Democrat,
pro civil rights. Even in segregated facilities

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with his rallies, he never allowed
that to happen. People freely mingled because

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you know, of course, he
wanted to reach everyone, you know,

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across the political spectrum. And so
the Gram material, some of them are

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I would call it a daily diary. Some of them are written, some

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of it's dictated and typed up after
the fact. Some of it's, like

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I said, news articles and kind
of part scrapbook, really kind of a

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hybrid diary, and in nineteen sixty
eight, there's a whole chapter in the

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book that I call Messenger, because
I think that accurately captures the role that

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he played. I think consistently Graham
really wanted the best for the nation,

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for the country. He wasn't a
partisan operative and any It's nothing that I

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see at all. He was really
good friends with LBJ. But he also

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had this friendship with Nixon, and
he passed messages between the two of them

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for a couple of year period at
least. And the peak of this activity

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goes until about Labor Day in nineteen
sixty eight, just a couple months before

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Americans voted that in November in nineteen
sixty eight. And one of the messages

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he passes from Nick since Nixon to
Johnson in the Oval Office is that as

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president. Now, that's pretty speculative
at that point for Nixon, because that

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a president Nixon would would not criticize
Johnson by name, He would give him

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credit for the Vietnam War when it
was all settled and over with, He

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would consult with him regularly in retirement
given meaningful duties, and would give him

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as best a place in history as
Nixon could possibly give him, and I

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thought that was just incredible to find
a document like that Exactly at that point,

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Nixon, I think, has given
Johnson all the ammunition he needs to

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blow up the Nixon campaign, of
course, unless LBJ goes along with it

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and actually agrees with this, which
is my argument in the book. And

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so Nixon was saying that to Johnson, I think it's exactly what he wanted

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to hear at a time that many
in Johnson's own party were very critical of

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his presidency. And so it's it's
it's what's fascinating about it really is even

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something bigger, a bigger idea that
for all those of us who watch politics

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and who are interested, we're basically
watching, say from the chief seats,

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kind of looking at actors on a
stage. Right. So this book really

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raises a fascinating question that what if
at key moments in US history of politics

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is not what we've been told it
is. And I would argue that it

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was for sixty eight. Well,
we've heard the terms kabuki theater often in

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the modern era, and I think
you might be right, is that you

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know, there's so much happening,
so much nuance I mean to the point.

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Now, look, we find ourselves, you know, talking about the

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uniparty or the deep state, or
some other force that's running the government other

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than elected officials. Well, that's
exactly right, and I think, you

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know, deeply entrenched on both sides, you know, in the classroom,

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I kind of refer to it.
So each party has kind of an activist

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wing. I refer to it as
kind of the twenty percent. I don't

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know if that's the right number,
but the idea is strange things happen in

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politics when when a small part of
a party can kind of take over the

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party. And you see this occasionally, right, and this is this is

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a case. I think Lyndon Johnson
perceived that those on his left the Democratic

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Party, we're moving the party in
a direction that was away from call it,

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you know, the middle Middle America
the pendulum of political public opinion in

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nineteen sixty eight, and this is
the beginning of a time when millions of

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kind of moderate and southern Democrats were
voting independently. We're across beginning to cross

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the aisle. So there's a very
lot of seismic things going on here in

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US politics. Right in the background, of this book. Yeah, it's

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interesting because with Lyndon Baynes Johnson's support
of Nixon. Uh, no doubt that

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lbj's presidency was very progressive. And
I mean here he is, he,

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you know, elevates a war on
poverty in which to this day we've spent

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twenty five thirty trillion dollars on the
War on poverty. And after everything is

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said and done, you go,
why, you know, what have we

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done? I mean, the numbers
have barely he moved after all that investment.

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But it's surprising to think that somebody
that was of such progressive thought and

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really kind of opened the door,
I think, for future progressivism of the

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Democratic Party. But yet he's willing
to hit the pause button in order to

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ensure his own law legacy and to
support Richard Nixon. Well, and it

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certainly would not make me popular at
academic conferences to say this, but I

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think the target of many of these
domestic programs, especially like the War on

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poverty. I think, by you
know, some measurements, the people have

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become worse, you know, worse
off as a result of all this expenditure

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and this sort of social science experimentation, you know that you see in this

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phase of government in the nineteen sixties, and of course when that this phase

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ended in the late sixties, we
really, you know, I mean,

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we've tinkered with things since, but
this big phase of sort of Civil Rights

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Act, of Voting Rights Act,
and War on Poverty, I would argue

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we really haven't ever returned to that
again, because I think even many Democrats.

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Pat moynihan is an example, self
describe liberal Democrat, longtime senator from

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New York, but became one of
the really fiercest, I think, most

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reasonable critics of the policy that he
helped to build in the nineteen sixties.

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So this kind of era of experimentation, whatever quite goes away, I don't

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think we've ever returned to and quite
the same way that we saw in the

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nineteen sixties. You know, I'm
kind of okay with experimentation and operating a

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little bit in the theoretical, but
not to the point when you know,

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like you say that twenty percent or
ten twenty percent, whatever you want to

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call of the fringe of any party
takes over and next thing you know,

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they've hijacked the economy, They've they've
hijacked history, they've hijacked everything that is

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good policy or good politics, you
know, like where we are right now,

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I mean, we're in such chaos. It's like we've lost our moral

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our moral connection are moral anchorings?
However, way you want to look at

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it, first, principles that we
can look at and say, okay,

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look at we're missing the mark here
consistently. Where did we make the wrong

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turn? How should we you know, come back and make some adjustments.

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But when it comes to politics,
it seems like it's near impossible, Luke,

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and especially right now when we're so
argumentative. Well, I think you

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set it up very nicely there.
I think like the sixties were at a

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time today looking ahead to the election
of next year, when people have really

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lost faith in a lot of the
nation's institutions exactly, whether that be the

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Congress itself at an all time low. I think both parties I think wish

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they had other options in terms of
the top of their ticket in the next

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year. Not everyone, but a
good number people have lost faith in higher

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education and what our universities are doing. K through twelve the national media,

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and we could make quite a list
here of institutions that I would say bipartisan

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perhaps for different reasons on occasion,
but where we really have lost faith in

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many of our nation's institutions. And
I think that's why in nineteen sixty eight

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a figure like Graham, who's not
in the ballot, not in public office,

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was able to serve in the role
that he did, because I think

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when we lose faith in kind of
our official institutions in the nation, that

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allows it's sort of an unofficial person
to fill a role because people are searching,

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they're searching for exactly and they want
a way forward. And we made

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it out of the nineteen sixties maybe
stronger. Kind of we're still figuring out

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what happened during that decade. I
think, well, but I wonder today,

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kind of where are the Grahams today? Where are those informal networks?

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Are there Republicans talking to Democrats.
They would never admit it publicly because compromise

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has become a dirty ward in politics
for both sides. What makes compromise means

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selling out these days? But I
wonder today, you know, where are

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those informal personal networks you know that
will guide us out of this era.

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And it may take a number of
years for us to look back this period

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and makes sense of it. Well, Uh, I guess my hope and

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faith, like yours, Luke,
is that they are meeting maybe not in

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upfront and obvious Uh. You know, the mainstream media seems to be greatly

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distracted. Uh, and that that
offers covering on both sides, which is

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kind of okay, I guess,
but but you're right. I think we're

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missing, you know, a dynamic
figure or numbers of figures. Because I

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thought myself, and having worked with
the Billy Graham Association in the eighties,

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my thought was, when you know, doctor Graham was passing that, oh

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my god, you know, who's
who is going to be the next doctor

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Graham? And the impression I had
was that it wasn't going to be a

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doctor Graham, but there were going
to be lots of doctor Graham's, lots

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of moral agents that are responding to
these frustrating and chaotic times. And uh,

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you know, and maybe that's a
good thing because you know, as

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we work through this u with experience
defining preference is that you know, we

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need to understand that we're missing the
mark. You've got a majority of Americans

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say we're on the wrong track.
Great observation. Okay, but let's understand

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what does the right track look like? Right? Well, I think Reverend

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Graham played a critical role during during
the year, I mean the seventy years

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basically you know of his career because
you can see, I mean, he

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was sort of he was very much
a bipartisan figure and what a president told

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him generally did not leak on any
substantial leak. This was a private pastoral

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relationship. And and you know,
while we didn't know until very recently that

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he had he had documented some of
these conversations. This was many years after

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the fact, when when these people
are all deceased now, and I think

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he must have felt it was important
for history to understand how some of these

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events really took place behind the scenes. And so it's and I don't you

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know, I don't know what's not
it written down, And surely there are

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lots of conversations that we don't have
a record of. That's the alst of

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the problemised sources. You don't know
what's not there. But I think this

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is just a fascinating you know,
I hope there are you know, more

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Billy Grahams in the future, because
I think leaders on both sides of the

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aisle need people, you know,
who aren't motivated primarily by partisan politics,

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and I think really have the best
for the nation in mind. Well,

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you think about this great American idea
and how it came to be. Uh,

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you know, you get John Winthrop
envisioning America as this light on a

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shining hill, and some may say
that that light has been dimmed a little

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bit. But I'm still hopeful because
I believe that, you know, this

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is a covenant relationship between God Almighty
and the people. And though you know,

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we may refer to them as the
silent majority at one part, especially

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during the sixties and seventies, and
that, uh, they're still there,

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and they're there, and I think
you're starting to see some demonstration of this

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because people are realizing that it can't
be all about politics. That politics is

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supposed to be downstream the culture.
But unfortunately what it's kind of been inverted

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a little bit the way I see
it, Luke, I'm not sure if

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you see it the same way,
but that it's uh, now we've got

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the culture downstream of politics, and
and that's that's a bad formula because that

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has us at each other's throats.
It ununites us, and it uh,

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you know, it has us constantly
looking for a fight as opposed to,

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you know, being united and coming
together for the common good. And and

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I think oftentimes the national media does
it does us a disservice, you know.

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I think they're a motivation of profit, and you know, social media

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adds, you know, have the
effect of dividing us, you know,

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for the sake of profit. And
I think if you his history though,

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I think can be a useful guide, you know, as long you know

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I should. I've said this before, but I'm a bit of a cynic.

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And when I see a new political
book, I always wonder, you

334
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know, who's the author. You
know, they have an agenda to exactly

335
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I do the same thing. It
seems like, it seems like they often

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do. And think a close reader
who knows the subject can figure that out

337
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pretty quickly. But you know,
during the New Deal and the Depression,

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which was a terrible time now for
my grandparents, you know, Franklin Roosevelt

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referred to it as the silent man, and then I become the forgotten man.

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Was kind of the class classification of
person who didn't look for handouts,

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who went to work, who went
to church, provided for their family and

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paid taxes. That became kind of
the silent majority, and then the late

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by the late nineteen sixties, that
kind of then moved further, maybe to

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the mora on majority in the nineteen
eighties, and then of course President Trump

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really capitalized again on that idea of
the side of the majority. It's a

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slightly different composition of the group,
but I think the concept is still the

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same that in our neighborhoods these days. You know, I'm guilty of not

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getting to know my neighbors as well
as I probably should, and others in

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your audience are the same way.
And I think there's still many millions of

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people. You know, we say
things to each other on social media that,

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at least the way I was raised, we would never say to each

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other face to face, exactly.
I think there are there's a core of

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millions of people while we vote Democrat
or Republican, we go to this church

354
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or to no church. I think
there is still a lot that binds us

355
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together as Americans, and the importance
now of a figure who can help us

356
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to rediscover that and and most importantly, you know, learn how to how

357
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to have a discussion and to disagree
but not be disagreeable. I think we've

358
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really lost that, you know,
without without a doubt, because in that

359
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process where we have separated ourselves and
thrown ourselves into our silos of choice,

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we really have rendered ourselves stupid.
As Jordan peters And would say, because

361
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you're eliminating fifty percent of the population
and brain trust, so to speak,

362
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the cumulative intelligence of three hundred and
fifty million people. I'll take that over

363
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a dozen any day. Uh,
you know, because we can, you

364
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know, we can sharpen up our
blades. We can you know, debate

365
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and advance our ideas accordingly, and
we're all the better when you look,

366
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pat you know, you look back
in history and you see where there is

367
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this collaboration of effort regardless of you
know, color of skin, background,

368
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it's just you know, for the
good of all concerned. My goodness,

369
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we move mountains, don't we.
I still have a lot of faith in

370
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people. You know. My background
is, you know, I was pretty

371
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much Northwestern Ohio, blue collar,
lower middle class kid, first college,

372
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first generation college graduate in my immediate
family. But I'll tell you something that

373
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that graduate school doesn't teach, and
that's common sense and courtesy toward other people.

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And so, you know, I
think I think there is Again,

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we've lived in We've been in Austin, Texas area, the Midwest, the

376
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Washington, DC area, and now
life has taken us on this adventure to

377
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southern California. And you know,
wherever I go people might sound a little

378
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different and look a little different.
There's a lot of good people still out

379
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there, right, and and and
it's it's the question is, you know,

380
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how do we mobilize this and and
and and use that as a guide,

381
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you know, of out of this
chaotic era. I think it's going

382
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to happen. I think there is
going to be that Billy Graham or there

383
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is going to be that person that
captures this idea of the silent majority or

384
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the forgotten man, and we need
to return to common sense and what works

385
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for the majority of people. Yeah, And as you say, it was

386
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interesting you mentioned Austin, Texas.
I was just seeing the other day where

387
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these driverless cars have gone nuts in
Austin. Did you see that? I

388
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did not see the latest one,
but this is a this is a phenomena

389
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and a lot of these self driving
car and the Tesla's and others that have

390
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these features. It's a fascinating idea, but I sure hope we can work

391
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the kinks out of them. Well
we have to, I mean, running

392
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.839
into each other, polls all that. The thing is hysterical, this bit

393
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of footage. The police pulled it
over or thought it was pulling it over,

394
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and they go there and there's there's
nobody there. Who can they ticket?

395
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Well, I'm sure it raises constitutional
issues about you know, a fifth

396
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.880
Amendment, like facing your accuser and
one of these cars hit you and I

397
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:25.519
there's what recourse do you have?
Yeah, I mean any excuse me for

398
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:27.680
making a hard left on you.
But when you mentioned Austin, I just

399
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all of a sudden I flashed on
that and thought, boy, this is

400
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something that we have to work out. But you know, getting back to

401
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:38.680
the situation of a free press and
our First Amendment, this is where I

402
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.359
believe that the free press, our
national media, has disserved U, the

403
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:52.440
Constitution and we the people, because
their job and the reason that a free

404
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:57.200
media is so protected and highly regarded, is so that they can hold accountable

405
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:04.440
these institutions that are supposed to serve
us, and unfortunately they've gotten as some

406
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.079
would say in the business world inside
of the bubble. And once you do

407
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:17.319
that, you you have violated confidence, You've violated your brand. And this

408
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:23.440
is what's lacking in these institutions,
consistency, consistency that is aligned with the

409
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:30.119
US Constitution. They've broken rank and
this is this is all contributing to the

410
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:36.000
chaoss that were realizing today. In
my humble opinion, Luke No, I

411
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.240
think you're right. You know,
in the sixties it was a little different

412
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.039
because all of the media were on
the left. There really was no whether

413
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:45.240
it be print or magazines, the
dailies, the weeklies, you know,

414
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.440
people young people especially. There were
three networks, you know, ABC,

415
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.640
CBS, NBC, public television was
kind of a new thing that was coming

416
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.799
along, and they were all on
one side. And then now you do

417
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.640
have much broader, you know,
proliferation across the political spectrum. But I

418
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:04.079
think in a sense they all take
the same approach. I mean, even

419
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:07.880
those on the right sort of mimic
the approaches on the left. And and

420
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:12.359
you know, I remember something smart
that we had secretary former Secretary of State

421
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:17.079
Condo Lea's a Rights on our campus
here in Orange County and Chapman last spring,

422
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.119
and she said something that sort of
challenged me personally. She said,

423
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.279
you know, we all have our
news feeds every day. Uh, and

424
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.960
they probably know us better than we
know ourselves in terms of our views.

425
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.240
And they say these articles are kind
of promoted to us because they confirm our

426
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.559
views. And she said, I
make a point every day of trying to

427
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:38.240
read at least one article that I
know is going to make me angry because

428
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.319
it's going to have a perspective different
than mine. I've kind of taken that

429
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.640
not as a challenge too, because
you know, it's it's it's it's really

430
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.880
important for us to understand our blind
spots in our own thinking. And it's

431
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.839
really I think immediate the media environment
you describe, no matter where you land

432
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:56.559
on the political spectrum, it's really
easy to fall into a trap where that's

433
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.880
that's you can't really see beyond that. Sometimes well you get conditioned. I

434
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:07.079
mean it amazes me. I mean, we have an attorney general, Okay,

435
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.960
he was just interviewed, he was
just before Congress, and he didn't

436
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.680
know who Victor Schokin was. You're
an attorney general. You don't know who

437
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:21.960
Victor Shokin is? Well, And
I came away from that testimony with the

438
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.079
idea that it's hard for me to
swallow as kind of a Midwestern kid at

439
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.279
heart, that there's not more cooperation
with the White House on some of these

440
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.160
matters. I mean, it's someone
who studies the records of previous administrations,

441
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:41.160
and here in the nineteen sixties,
the White House is definitely involved on anything

442
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.559
important that the DOJ does. That
doesn't mean they're dictating it, but there's

443
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.359
no question. And if you're the
attorney general, you're definitely giving a heads

444
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.279
up to your boss in the Oval
office about what's going to happen. You

445
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.200
don't want him or her to read
that in the newspapers for the first time

446
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.880
and be surprised. So, as
I say, sometimes it's taken fifty five

447
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.000
years to kind of make more sense
of nineteen sixty eight, I'm going to

448
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.200
come back on your show in fifty
five years to make sense of this current

449
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:08.920
error. I hope it doesn't take
that long, right, right, somebody

450
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:14.680
who studies records of presidents. There's
an awful lot in that testimony that was

451
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.200
hard for me to swallow. Two. Yeah, exactly. Well, you

452
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:23.559
know we know that under Obama's administration, his Attorney general was often referred to

453
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.640
as his wingman. Uh, you
know they moved away from that. You

454
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:32.359
know, Donald Trump's wing man abandoned
ship Fliftymagan on his own. That's a

455
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:38.559
whole other story. But in this
particular case with Garland, I mean,

456
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:44.440
he may not directly take orders just
in't like in the same way that Lois

457
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:50.240
Learner may not have gotten a specific
order to go after all these tea party

458
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:55.519
organizations or these conservatives. But there
was a wink wink and a nod nod,

459
00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:02.079
because after that message went out,
Lois Learner went directly after all the

460
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:07.920
conservative groups. And I maintained to
this day, Luke that that has and

461
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.920
has effect anywhere from ten to maybe
a dozen voting cycles what she did.

462
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:17.680
And to this day, you know, these cheap party organization conservative groups have

463
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.880
never been granted their tax exemption position, which they had every right to have.

464
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.079
Well, and on a related subject, I remember after January sixth and

465
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.119
the firestorm in the media and people
were asking me, I had no inside

466
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.079
knowledge of whatever was going on,
but you know, what's your reaction and

467
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.319
my reaction at the time, which
I stand by today. Again, having

468
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:46.559
studied the nineteen sixties and FBI infiltration
of peace groups and anti war protesters when

469
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:52.480
they don't underestimate what the government's capable
when it's scared, when bureaucrats are scared.

470
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.839
I said, I would be surprised
if there are many, you know,

471
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.559
convictions from January sixth, because I
think it could take decades. We're

472
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:04.640
going to find the government had pretty
well infiltrated any that rally and those who

473
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.239
had gone to the Capitol, and
we're going to learn that the government was

474
00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:10.519
pretty well aware of what was going
on, and that's going to make it

475
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.599
hard for them to prosecute people.
Well, but they're not having a problem

476
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.599
prosecuting people well, even people who
weren't there. I mean, look at

477
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.679
the head of the Proud Boys.
He wasn't even there in DC at the

478
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:29.880
time, and he's been given the
harshest sentence of twenty two years. Well,

479
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:31.960
the lesson of the nineteen sixties and
the Watergate era, I would say,

480
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.679
is they can hand out the sentences
and they'll be overturned on appeal.

481
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.440
Yes, and you know oftentimes in
that first assessment, you know there is

482
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:47.480
judicial overreach. Well, and the
problem you have, particularly with Washington,

483
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:53.800
DC, with ninety six percent of
DC being liberal, a conservative, or

484
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:58.719
anybody with that kind of perspective,
I mean, you might as well just

485
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:05.239
assume the position and uh and just
get yourself on the skewer because you're done.

486
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:08.320
And the idea of a fair trial
if you're a conservative, you know,

487
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:12.519
which is a constitutional right that we
should all have exactly or not.

488
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.400
It's just it's just it's it's just
not depending on your politics. You know,

489
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.360
there are pockets of the country where
that's that's just not possible based on

490
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.760
the judges, based on the jury
pool. Well, and Luke, what

491
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.000
do you think, I mean,
do we get to some point where we

492
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:29.599
finally just say, look at if
we're going to have trials, and you

493
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:32.519
really are, you know, you're
supposed to have a trial of your peers,

494
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.360
then you need to be in an
area where your peers exist, not

495
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.239
some area that is so one sided. Uh. You know, you know,

496
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.039
for example, like you know you
had on the other side, you

497
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:52.599
had a Democrat attorney who was caught
breaking the law, but because his his

498
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:58.360
uh you know, his case was
dealt with in DC pretty much got away

499
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.119
with it. Hey, you know
we're at we're getting into all kinds of

500
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:04.840
controversy here, So I'll throw out
another one. Okay, where in the

501
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:09.519
world as President Trump get a fair
trial? Yeah, exactly. And secondly,

502
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:13.880
what does a fair trial look like? Describe that for me? I

503
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:16.639
don't know. I wish I had
the answer. Well, and the unfortunate

504
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:20.119
thing is it's going to come down, like you said, it'll go to

505
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.599
appeal, and then it's finally going
to end up where it probably maybe should

506
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:28.280
have been prompted a long time ago, in the Supreme Court, and it's

507
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.119
going to be a decision by maybe
one or two judges, and then that

508
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:36.239
still leaves this divided. Uh.
You know, it's just amazing, you

509
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.719
know, particularly when you bring up
Donald Trump, I mean the Russian you

510
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.679
know, collusion deal, which you
know was false from the very beginning.

511
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:49.280
The FBI knew it was false,
they continued to pursue it. They got

512
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:54.559
outside their lane, they violated their
brand identity in terms of you know,

513
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:02.480
justice and fairness, and they went
after they turned into a political apparatus for

514
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:07.960
the Democratic Party. And they've messed
us all up ever since. Because even

515
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:14.760
though they spent millions and millions of
dollars to adjudicate this case, you know,

516
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.800
a special prosecutor and everything they came
up with Bubkis and the people still

517
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.519
didn't believe it. They didn't believe
it to such a degree. The Democrats

518
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:23.960
said, well, it's not over, So now they're going to come up

519
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.679
with another make believe story of why
they should impeach Donald Trump. So now

520
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.960
we're going to do it over a
phone call. And the ironic thing is

521
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:38.119
here, it's gone full circle.
The phone call that they accuse President Trump

522
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:45.920
of is evidenced by Joe Biden himself
saying he did affect a quid pro quo

523
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:52.760
decision in holding out a billion dollars
in order to fire the prosecutor that Merrick

524
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:58.880
Garland didn't even know. So,
I mean, this is absurd where we

525
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.719
are right now, but this is
today's politics. Well, and when you

526
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:07.480
know, I think each time there's
another federal charge or an impeachment talk,

527
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.760
I think all they're doing is guaranteeing
that Trump is the nominee well without a

528
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.639
doubt, because it just it just
continues to enlarge the spotlight on him,

529
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.599
you know, and then when impeachment
doesn't work, now it's state by state

530
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.400
trying to disqualify him from the ballot. The latest thing here in California is

531
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:28.280
that that calif dynamic controls the ballot, and we're going to remove him from

532
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.920
the ballot. And as you say, I think all these things are going

533
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.679
to be on the fast lane to
the Supreme Court because these are these are

534
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:37.920
not state issues. These are federal
issues exactly. That are that are that

535
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:44.039
are going to quickly exhaust any lower
level of adjudication. And that's the only

536
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.440
place they can go is a Supreme
Court exactly. And and and we need

537
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:50.400
the Supreme Court to really come in
and preempt this, don't we look,

538
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.119
I mean, because how long can
we chew on this? This this is

539
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:59.239
you know, disunifying, it's disturbing, uh, you know, discontinues.

540
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.880
And now at the end of twenty
twenty four, we're going to end up

541
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.679
with another twenty twenty election or a
twenty sixteen election us against them. We

542
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:14.039
don't believe in the results. I
don't I don't know if America can live

543
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:21.000
with another four years of this kind
of wackiness questioning the results of a federal

544
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:24.159
election. Well, and you know, to go back to my book title

545
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:29.000
The Year That Broke Politics. What
we're talking about is what politics looks like

546
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:32.079
when it's broken exactly, when things
don't work the way they should, right,

547
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:36.320
And so really, though, what
do you fall back on as an

548
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.760
American in that time? And you
fall back on it's it's the three,

549
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.320
you know, the faith, the
flag, and the family. Yes that

550
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:46.639
there are millions of people who on
both sides who say enough, you know,

551
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:52.559
let's let's move on, right yea. They want to disengage from politics

552
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.159
and go back. I call them
first principles. We got to come back

553
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.199
to first principles, the things that
we all agree on. I don't care

554
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.239
if you're a Democrat to carry your
Republican independent whatever, But I think that

555
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.679
if we all got in the room
and said, hey, just like you

556
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:09.559
said, the faith of family,
uh and uh what was that you said?

557
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:14.280
Faith? Family and flag? And
faith, family and flag, you

558
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:16.280
get you get people in the room, and you'd probably get eighty percent easy

559
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.000
right off the bat, that would
agree with that. Yeah. I like,

560
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:22.519
hey, let's just take all the
best ideas wherever they come from.

561
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.159
It doesn't matter who owns them or
takes credit exactly. And you know,

562
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.159
let's I mean, maybe maybe we
don't need much in Washington. We can

563
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:34.760
govern ourselves. Well, I think
our founding fathers that that's what they intended.

564
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:39.679
They intended to limit government as much
as possible. But government cannot help

565
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:44.320
itself. Humanity, I mean,
we're human beings, were flawed, We

566
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.599
make mistakes, and you know,
I mean even the children of Israel here

567
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:51.360
they have God Almighty is their king
there say that's not good enough. We

568
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:54.519
want an earthly king. I mean, you know, it's just this continuum

569
00:40:54.639 --> 00:41:01.719
of a repeat of history and a
demonstration of uh, you know, of

570
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.920
our frailty and ineffectiveness because nobody has
all the goods Luke. But I will

571
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.559
say again the lesson of history is, you know, we're going through the

572
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:14.039
eye of the storm right now.
And when you're in the eye of the

573
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:16.239
storm, when you're in the valley, you know, you can't see beyond

574
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:20.800
that it's dark. And you know, we got through the nineteen sixties.

575
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.840
We will get through this somehow or
another, and we will be able with

576
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.039
some personal professional distance, look back
on us and it'll all make sense how

577
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:30.880
we got through it. But I
think that's part of the challenge right now,

578
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.920
is that we can't quite see our
way out of this. Yeah,

579
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.519
it's the challenge at the same time, it's the hope, as you say,

580
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:43.440
because when you look back historically,
we've been here before. Uh,

581
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.920
you know, we've been able to
battle through. And I think, you

582
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:51.599
know, because of the Constitution.
I mean, here we are. We're

583
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:54.760
not even a week away from Constitutional
Day, which was less less Sunday.

584
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:58.880
And I tell you, Luke,
I encouraged our, our viewers and our

585
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.280
audience, you know, leading into
that day to you know, spend a

586
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:05.480
moment. I mean, what are
we talking? What four thousand words and

587
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:10.639
the Constitution? What a beautiful document? Remind yourself of what our founding was

588
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:17.760
all about and uncharacteristically uncharacteristic of the
modern era. It's a document that's easily

589
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.159
understood, right, I mean it's
not. It's not eighty seven hundred pages

590
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:29.599
of all kinds of godly gook and
conflicts and language. It pretty much gives

591
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:31.280
it straight up, doesn't it.
No. I think what you describe there,

592
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:36.320
eighty seven hundred pages of gobbled togo
because about every bill passed by Congress

593
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.880
these days, right, But that's
the document our founding. Our founding documents

594
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:45.000
were surprisingly simple, jargon free,
you know, written and fairly plain language.

595
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.960
And I think you know, it
would serve all Americans, not just

596
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.840
those you know sitting for a citizenship
exam, to understand a little more what's

597
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.400
actually in there, well without a
doubt. And the thing is is that

598
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:02.360
the people you know are elected officials, Congress senators, they're voting on legislation

599
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:07.280
they haven't read. They're counting on
their staff to have read it. And

600
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.159
probably if you examine the staff,
you'd probably find that there was a small

601
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:15.199
percentage of them that actually read the
bill. Well, my first job out

602
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.400
of college at twenty three was in
the Speaker's office, and then I worked

603
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.880
on a committee on the House side, and it's been that's spent twenty years.

604
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.239
That was sort of the end of
Clinton beginning of Bush forty three administration.

605
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.880
But I saw that then. I
mean, you know that votes today

606
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:34.000
will start at say two o'clock,
and you're still waiting for the draft of

607
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.400
some two thousand page budget bill.
Uh. And even if you had somehow

608
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.239
the time to speed read that,
questions a curney while you're reading, how

609
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.119
did this get in here? You
see that you see the fingerprints of this

610
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.800
lobbyist or that pressured group, you
know, getting their few lines. You

611
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:51.559
know, in the final bill,
and so even if you had time to

612
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.079
read it, you know, you
couldn't sort through those kinds of details and

613
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:58.000
figure out, you know, what
what is it, What's what's the effect

614
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.880
of this exactly became almost a joke
that we don't know what's in it until

615
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.079
we pass it. Well, yeah, Nancy Pelosi made that clear. And

616
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:08.159
of course then the administrative state gets
their hands on it, and uh,

617
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:14.440
and of course the escape for you
know, our elected officials is going,

618
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.719
well, you know, it's it's
that bureaucratic administrative state. It's their fault.

619
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.760
You know, we pass the bill, but you know that's the way

620
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.760
they interpreted. So now here we
are, you know, the forgotten men

621
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:31.119
and woman, you might say,
And we're subjected to this silliness until there's

622
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:37.119
enough complaining or that, you know, it maybe ends up after appeal after

623
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:39.960
appeal and in the Supreme Court and
its squared away. But meanwhile we're three

624
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:44.599
five years of paying down the road. Well, I think it was Milton

625
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:49.599
Friedman who said something like, there's
nothing so permanent as a temporary government program,

626
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.679
because you know, it's awfully easy
to start some new initiative today.

627
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:58.119
But once you start paying salaries and
people buy homes in Washington, DC,

628
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:01.960
and you're paying pensions and retirement plans. It's very difficult to cut government.

629
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:06.400
And so even if you're not really
a believer in the idea of the deep

630
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:08.400
state, uh, you know that's
I don't think that's a term that I

631
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:13.280
use once in this book. I
think you can. It's easy to see

632
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.880
though, that government begins after a
while to serve its own purpose, that

633
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:21.280
it always grows, it doesn't want
to shrink, and it's it's a powerful

634
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:24.679
kind of own economy and property market
in the Washington, DC area, And

635
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:29.639
so, you know, it is
enormously difficult. I think Democrats, it's

636
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:34.639
always the answer is always growing government. Republicans is always shrinking it. And

637
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.199
I think you know those there's really
automatic tension I think nowadays almost any time

638
00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:43.079
for a Republican who gets into office, because it's very difficult to cut government.

639
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.079
Well, look, you imagine,
how would you like to be elected

640
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:52.719
president and you got sixty days to
hire thousands of people in your administration?

641
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.480
How do you do that? Well? And all that can be undone the

642
00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:00.760
first day. If one out of
a hundred senators says nope, not going

643
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:02.840
to consider any of your nominees.
And it used to be, you know,

644
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:07.119
not that long ago, where you
give deference to a to a new

645
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.840
president, they have a hundred days. They kind of have a period where

646
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:14.440
we give them a chance to try
out some other ideas. I think the

647
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:16.920
one hundred days nowadays has become I
don't even know if they have a hundred

648
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:21.800
minutes until the first verdict of their
presidency has already been written by the media.

649
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.519
Well, I think Donald Trump it
was seconds. Yeah, I don't

650
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:28.800
think it was in the back in
November before he raised his hand exactly.

651
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:32.440
So now it's uh, well,
here it is. I mean again,

652
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.280
this all speaks of what you talk
about in your book, that it is

653
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:43.000
broken. And like you, I
believe in the American people. I believe

654
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:45.960
in the resolve of the American people, their commitment to the American dream,

655
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:52.280
regardless of the open borders that we're
experiencing. Uh, the you know,

656
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:57.400
the obvious corruption that seems to be
running rampant in our government, the compromise

657
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.280
of the Three Letter agencies to such
a degree that we've lost faith in them.

658
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.159
Uh you know, but at some
point, like you said, something

659
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:09.039
has got to give, and I
believe that what always comes out on the

660
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:14.400
bright side of it is the American
people. I think you're exactly right,

661
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:17.000
and that's exactly how I would conclude
it. You know, while the pendulum

662
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:22.519
of politics never stops moving, some
push it right, some push it left.

663
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:24.559
But it's the American people who want
to push it towards the center and

664
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:30.159
who ultimately decide kind of where that
center is and where common sense exists,

665
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.119
where we can build bridges across the
aisle to people who are different than we

666
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:38.119
are. But I think history,
history is a history such a powerful guide,

667
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:42.079
and it is what I try to
do in this book because you know,

668
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.239
again, I'm writing these four very
different sides where you know that one

669
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:50.519
side could read their part of the
book and I think basically recognize what's in

670
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:53.800
here exactly. And my goal is
not to serve one political interest. It's

671
00:47:54.119 --> 00:48:00.239
it's to reach as many people as
possible. I think understanding our history and

672
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:04.280
how we got here, Like the
wars of the nineteen sixties, those culture

673
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.239
and political wars, they help us, they give us tools to work through

674
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:12.960
our era today. Well, Luke, we've got about a minute left here.

675
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.679
Your book. The year that broke
politics that still resonates today in the

676
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:22.920
Year that Broke politics, collusion and
chaos in the presidential election of nineteen sixty

677
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:29.360
eight. I'm going to let you
give a final summary and remind people how

678
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.079
they can get your get their hands
on your book. Sure, well again,

679
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:35.239
it's been a great pleasure. The
easiest way to track me down.

680
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.920
I love to hear from people.
I get questions just about every day.

681
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:40.320
I would say, Luke Nicktar dot
com, l U K E n I

682
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:45.400
c H t er dot com,
and you can find out more about me

683
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.719
and reach out, whether you agree
with me or whether you disagree with me.

684
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.000
My point is not to have the
final word, because there is no

685
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:55.239
final word in history. It's really
to start a conversation and a dialogue,

686
00:48:55.559 --> 00:49:00.119
which is what we need as much
about today about things going on today as

687
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:04.320
we do about history itself. Exactly. Well, Luke, again, thank

688
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.559
you so much for being with us. Appreciated you. Congratulations on the book

689
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:13.480
The Year that Broke Politics. Luke
Nicker has been our guest for more information

690
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.199
and to be a part of this
mighty movement to return to God and save

691
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:20.800
our country. Go to Bill Martinez
Show dot com. May God bless you

692
00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:22.320
and keep you, and make his
face shine upon you. May He be

693
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:28.199
gracious unto you and give you peace. Go and be blessed to bless others.

694
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.280
Thank you so much for being with
us. Have a great day.