The Bill Martinez Show 02 09 26

0:00 Are you ready? Yeah? Ok us do it? Ill Martinas Live a program about current events, our culture, our values, our politics, and our future. And now Bill Martinez. Good Morning America. Six minutes after the top. They are great to have you with us. Also special to have doctor Michael Rubin with us. He is a contributor to the Washington Examiner's Beltway Confidential blog, a director of analysis at the Middle East Form and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. As we are talking right now, Michael, it has been announced that the FBI has captured a key leader in the BEng Ghazi raid. What do you say?

0:41 You know that it's very good that they're not letting justice fall by the wayside, Eve, close to fourteen years after the US ambassador Chris Stevens was murdered. There. One of the things I'm curious about, Bill, There's been previous captures at Bengazi suspects back in twenty twelve, in twenty fourteen, but both of those were, of course, during the Obama administration, and now that this is the first major suspect captured during a Republican administration, whether any of the self censorship in order to pract Hillary Clinton that may have occurred under Obama will be passed by the wayside.

1:21 And this is especially important of course, with the Clinton's forthcoming testimony in Congress. Perhaps some questions can be asked in this direction as well. Yeah, you got to think that somebody is going to bring this up because while they got her attention, because the last time we can still see her in that green outfit, right and says a you know the way she just kind of tossed it off, like as if you know, what did it matter anyway? I think was the closing statement that she made about that, right. Yeah, absolutely, and the laugh and the cackle. It was very very tone deaf. But you know, one of the things I just want to say when we look at Mike POMPEII or when we look at Marco Urbio and compare it to what we've seen in the past, the leaked documents from the Clinton era when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, so that her major concern is just breaking records. How many miles she could she travel, how many countries should she go to. It was a very superficial and almost amord amateurist approach to national security and American diplomacy. Thank god that era has closed.

2:27 Well, And how embarrassing was it in that meeting to kind of restore confidence and relationship with the Russians, right, and she gave him a reset button and misspelled You know, yeah. I think the fault on that may have been Mike McFall, one of our aides, who was the US ambassador in Russia. But it was embarrassing. It was woefully naive to believe that we just needed a reset. But you know, this represents one of the problems we have, especially among the Democrats, but an American policy. Were too many in Congress and too many in our own state department self flagely, and they assume that the problem is ours, the responsibility for any problem is ours. They don't recognize that our adversaries have agency, and so long as they don't recognize that our adversaries have their own strategy, then our adversaries are able to run circles around us. We've seen this with Iran, We've seen this with Russia, We've seen this with China, and until recently, we saw this with Venezuela as well well.

3:27 Exactly, and speaking of Venezuela, even Russia for that matter, or any of these regimes where you know, people are almost there for life, like Putin and others President g for example, And here they're dealing with a country that every four years can be under new management. And I've got to imagine that the international community has sized up. I mean, I hate to put it this way, but it looks like in pattern. And you can correct me if I'm wrong here, Michael, But everything that has to do with the Democratic Party, they don't know how to handle these international conflicts or negotiate. The Republicans have been pretty solid and how to address these issues. And I think that certainly Donald Trump is setting a whole new standard in terms of international diplomacy. Am I off base on that?

4:16 No? I don't think you're off base. Look, the problem with our diplomacy, broadly speaking, is that too often we don't see the forest through the trees. We may enter into a diplomatic engagement because of the forest, and then we become too subsumed with keeping those negotiations alive. That's what I mean by the trees. We saw this with North Korea, We've seen this with Iran, where we simply lose sight of our goals. But you know, one of our weaknesses and this is bipartisan. Is that era of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill is over where even we may have been on different sides of the aisle, but we still operated by common principles, and that's when America was its strongest.

4:59 The goal. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Michael, but because the thing is that Smith sometimes is at that time, the goal was the same. It was the process, the procedure how to hit that goal. We had a common goal. We don't have a common goal right now. This is the problem. You're absolutely right. And the other problem we have in our foreign policy. It's that old joke about two guys who are trying to outrun a man eating bear. One slows down and ties a shoe, and the other says, what are you doing? You have to outrun the bear, and the guy says, no, I only have to outrun you. All our enemies have recognized that all they have to do is run down the clock on the United States and hope that they get something better as we go into our whiplash policy between Democrats and Republicans.

5:40 Well, and how do you keep your eye on the ball right now when you've got distractions like the midterms coming up, all this other stuff. I mean, you've got to give Donald Trump a lot of credit for what he's been able to accomplish in the first year. And this is with you know, some headwinds that he's having to deal with there and you know, shutting down the government, threats of shutting down the government, all this, you know political ravel rousing that's going on, that's all focused on illegal immigration. Michael, Well, you're absolutely right on that. And the way I tend to look at it is traditionally we've had a lame duck problem in the United States, and so when I look at Donald Trump talking about a potential third term something which I think is illegal, the way the tactic I think Donald Trump is applying is simply neutralizing this lame duck status to keep people guessing and to keep his own policy dictates relevant before all the Republicans start peeling away up to it, including Marco Rabia.

6:38 Yeah, well, you know, speaking of people running out the clock, let's talk Venezuela for just a minute. It seems that Delsi Rodriguez, this is the strategy that she may be using. This may be the strategy that she is using. The thing with Delsi Rodriguez is she is, she does, doesn't have much charisma, she doesn't have any ingrained popularity among the Venezuelan people. I've spoken to a number of people who have met her, who know her personally. Very few have anything positive to say. That said, zombie regimes have a way to continue. For quite some time, the United States has been in negotiations and cutter with Delsi Rodriguez's brothers, who perhaps are at the force add the muscle to her rule. But you know, we do need to recognize that perhaps band aids aren't the solution for sucking chess.

7:39 Wounds, right, yeah, exactly, case in point. The other thing is it's happening is that, I mean, Venezuela is like on their last leg economically. How can she afford to maintain any kind of military force when she can't pay them anymore? In much the same way that's happening in Iran. Well, you know this is the problem. In Iran, average wage is now about one hundred dollars, but the security forces have been getting, especially in January bonuses, bringing up their salaries to seven hundred to fourteen hundred dollars a month and therefore they have incentive. We see the same thing in North Korea. It's a zombie regime. It's quite literally starving, but the security forces, the army, gets their salaries.

8:23 One of the worst dynamics that we could engage in is if we're pumping money into the salaries of the people who are oppressing the Venezuelan public. Yeah, exactly how are we doing that? Are we doing that, Michael. Well, in terms of having our own oil companies resume operations or go back, it's a danger. Look, yeah, there's only so much Marco Ribio can do. We don't have a lot of insight into what's going on in Caracas and how this is all working out. We're gained more understanding over the next couple months. The issue is that I always worry about is that old Winston Churchill adage the Americans always do the right thing. They just try everything else first. Let's hope we don't have any self inflicted errors on goals along the way.

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13:56 Let's where are we at right now? Time for and a ran up date. Well, you know, of course today we're meeting in Oman with our Arab counterparts that Iranians are also there. I say we're meeting with our Arab counterparts because oftentimes it's shuttle diplomacy in the same hotel or in the same compound rather than face to face talks. But the one thing that Iranians should make clear, and when I've met with Iranian diplomats, I've made this clear. Everyone knows their game is to run down the clock. And if they think that they can fool Donald Trump the way they fooled John Curry or John Finer or Jake Sullivan or Barack Obama or Joe Biden, they're kidding themselves, and so they risk when Donald Trump. The way I assessed Donald Trump is this, he's much more willing than the average diplomat or average president to talk to anyone, and we saw that in his first term with North Korea. But he's also not willing like the traditional diplomat, to just talk endlessly. When he says, you have sixty days, you have six days on sixty one days, you better you better worry.

15:04 You know. Last weekend, I came back from Baghdad. And when I was in Baghdad, one of the things that's strange, and this is the barometer for me, is it was somewhat hard to get meetings because a lot of the pro Iranian militia leaders or politicians, they had cashed out their assets and they had quite literally four hundred to five hundred million dollars in cash sitting in their homes. They had switched houses, they had switched cars, they had switched license plates, they had switched their cell phones. And the whole reason was because they expect something bad to happen. And one of the ironies is when Iran's own clients expect that this uncertain I mean, Donald Trump means business. And then we have backbiting from Congress that that's just a curious dynamic and shows how we've lost the plot inside Washington.

15:50 Well, And the thing is that's you know, with Donald Trump, he is he understands leverage, and he collects leverage. He collects the cards. As he said to Zelensky, you don't have the cards, and Donald Trump knew exactly that Zelensky didn't have the ability to counter. And America with Donald Trump has collected cards and leverage, and he's applying this leverage in Iran and against the Iatola in such a way very strategically. He's not just coming out and just going nuclear. But yet you can see in terms of the response of Iran it's almost like Bagdad Bob all over again. If you remember, Oh, we've got him right where we wanted, and it seems like a lot of bluster.

16:32 Are am I underestimating the potential force of Iran as it stands right now? Michael, No, I don't think you're underestimating it. Look from Donald Trump's perspective, he said that he eliminated in the Twelve Day War in June twenty twenty five, Iran's nuclear ability. Now I don't have access to the intelligence, but if that's true, then why would he accept any deal which simply re litigates a program which he thinks he's already That's why he's talking about the proxies, That's why he's talking about the ballistic missiles, and the Iranians, as you said, don't have the cards. My concern is not that Donald Trump doesn't understand leverage. Sometimes I think he applies the leverage to the wrong ends and can make some tactical mistakes.

17:19 The other thing that I don't think Donald Trump always gets, and this is where I worry, is when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you're a real estate developer, everything looks like an opportunity for real estate development. And what that does in the Gaza strip elsewhere is it in Syria. It undermines the role of ideology. He needs to understand that the supreme leader of Iran has never been motivated by the will being of his people. He's been motivated by the afterlife. He's been motivated by the Shia millennialism, this belief in the Imam and so forth. You can't project your own value system onto the iranianatolis. Now, most Iranians don't believe it in it in this, but Donald Trump needs to understand that those whom he's with, whom he's talking are operating from a fundamentally different playbook.

18:11 Yeah, in a sense, it's a little bit about what's happening. Let's just say, as a microcosm, what's happening in Minnesota, for example, you've got that splintered radical activist group that's creating a lot of disruption right now. And I see that happening in Iran as well, because you've got so many factions in Iran that unless you understand all these different groups, it's not just it's not just the religious zealots, You've got all the other I don't know what do you want to call him, sub sub entities or sub people groups within Iran that have, like you said, they have a different ethos and a different motivation.

18:53 Well, let me put it this way. The Supreme Leader's off office, his conglomerate, what he controls is worth one hundredllion dollars. Separately, what the Islamic Revolutionary Guard core controls is worth one hundred billion dollars. So you haven't had a regime change in Iran in thirty five years since Homoni died and Ali Kameni took over. You haven't had a transition. And so right now with Ali Kameni being eighty six years old, almost eighty seven, with him having had cancer, with this transition looming, forget the United States, you have people looking at this as a one time lottery. They're coming out of the woodwork. They all want to gain control. And the fact that we're rushing the process is only sort of catalyzing this dynamic. Nothing wrong with that, but we recognize that there's a lot on the table, and there's a lot of people whose motivation isn't necessarily pure.

19:44 And the thing is the people outside of the regime itself, the people that are out in the streets. I've been saying this over and over again, Michael. It's like they're having their Patrick Henry moment. You know, give me liberty or give me death. I mean they you know, thousands of people have died in the streets of Iran, and for the sake of liberty, they're in a kind of lining up for this. You know, you're absolute right, Bill, but this is what worries me. If Donald Trump ends up stepping back, what happens in Iran doesn't. Stay in Iran. Yes, we've seen this. Play out before, George HW. Bush calling upon the Iraqi people to rise up and throw off the dictator's dam only to stand down. So we've had this sort of dynamic before. But what happens when protesters come out in the streets of Turkey, or come out in the streets of China, or come out in the streets of Russia.

20:35 What Donald Trump is showing if he doesn't actually take action now, is he's writing a dictator's playbook for our adversaries, saying you can messac here tens of thousands of people and get away with it. And I'm afraid that other countries, other regimes will take that risk if we don't move forward. Yeah, you're exactly right. It will thwart that organic movement. And it seems that organic movement is rising because all these other countries. I got to well, you know, be at Venezuela. I mean, just go down the line here. You know, the people are at this point. I mean there's something happening in the general atmosphere, so to speak, in the environment where Unrest is rising because people have had it with oppression.

21:18 Look you both you and I lived through nineteen ninety one, nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety one, the fall of the Soviet Union and the fall of the Soviet Bloc. That's what this reminds me of. I was just having a conversation with someone about Cuba. Now, Raul Castro and his two former vice presidents are still de troika, that is technically in charge. The president of Cuba is just an empty suit between roal Castro and his two vice presidents. They're between ninety three and ninety five years old. Change is coming, and as soon as they die, Cuba could regain its rightful place. I mean, Donald Trump could be the president who ushers in a real period of.

22:00 Peace. Yeah right, Yeah, we got two minutes left. I'm gonna let you summarize. I mean, just like you said, I mean, the opportunities internationally. I mean, I don't think we've seen anything like this in our lifetime. Michael, No, you're absolutely right, But we're talking about Iran. And look, Iran, the Islamic Republic isn't the natural apex of Iranian political evolution. We sometimes don't get that, just like the Communists weren't the natural apex of Russian political evolution. We're gonna come back. Iran's gonna take its place. I just hope that in other areas we don't make mistakes. Samaloland, for example, deserves to be free. They're doing everything right.

22:43 The fact Taiwan is doing everything right. Nogorno Karabak, the Armenian Christians there were doing everything right before we ran rough shot over. But you know, and I've talked to you this, you about this before. Every president since George HW Bush has had his legacy defined by the crisis no one saw coming during the campaign. What I worry about the forthcoming crisis that no one is talking about, will happen next week in Bangladesh when there's an election but the Secularist Party isn't allowed to run, it's been banned. And so if you have Iran free, but Bangladesh, a country that's much larger, go full on Islamic state. That's going to be something which is going to define Donald Trump's legacy, whether he likes it or not.

23:28 What about Ukraine Russia as it stands fifty seconds left, go ahead. This notion that Ukraine is going to forfeit its freedom. Is absolutely ridiculous. It's a gamble that Vladimir Putin lost, We shouldn't lose it as well. Exactly well. He's the contributor to The Washington Examiner's Beltway Confidential blog. Director of Analysis at the Middle East Forum and Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, doctor Michael Rubin has been with us. Michael, thank you, as always, appreciate the insight. Take care, be well, my friend. Thank you, Bill. You got it. Fifty or older, this news is for you. The CBC recommends you get vaccinated against newmacacol pneumonia. Even if you're healthy, your age puts you at risk. People fifty or older are over six times more likely to be hospitalized with new maccacol pneumonia compared to adults eighteen to forty nine.

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26:39 I'm doing pretty well. Good to be back on the show. Well, always good to be here. I want to get your read on all things you know, Minnesota, I mean, all this wackiness. It just seems that you know, trumped arrangement syndrome is not only happening in Minnesota. But it just seems to be going in, particularly in blue states that just have such a mindset and a psychology that's anti Trump in such a way that it defies common sense. Will I'm having a hard time connecting the dots because they seem to I say, they these people in these dominated uniparty blue state areas of our country hate Trump's so bad that they just ignore common sense.

27:27 Yeah. Well, I think Minneapolis stands out even among some of the bigger blue states. I mean, there was a guy who on social media did an analysis of the frequency of violence against ice and against Trump agents, and I think there were twenty eight felony incidents in Minneapolis. There were twenty seven in Chicago, and there were twenty two in LA. But the thing there is that Chicago and LA both have about four million people. Minneapolis is about four hundred and ten thousand, So if you look at city size, Minneapolis is just dramatically out of control when it comes to this, much more than anybody else. And I mean there's a long activist tradition up there and so on, So I think that that's part of what we're seeing. I don't know much more than that, it's very well, actually I know a lot about the Minnesota situation. It's a very non functional environment right now.

28:16 I mean, you have the signal groups that are organized to respond to any sighting of ICE agents. So they're people that are literally watching with binoculars as cars go by and adding their license plates to this as far as I could tell, entirely illegal database, and so on down the line. It's a weird situation. Well, it's like the whole thing smacks of illegality, even starting from this idea of a of a sanctuary state. Will I mean, because I'm not seeing sanctuary states enumerated in our constitution anywhere. Yeah, well, the whole sanctuary idea. People on the right have sometimes said, well, we should do this right, we should be a gun right sanctuary state, you know, pro life sanctuary state. If states can just say well, I'm not going to obey the law. What's stopping Arizona or Wyoming or whatever from totally banning a gender utilation of kids, this kind of thing. But yeah, the sanctuary state issue, it's gone on for a while obviously, as you know, it's gone on in the context of immigration, and as a political scientist, I'll say, it goes beyond that. One of the big things here is drugs. So we forget that marijuana is still a federally scheduled drug. I mean, marijuana is technically in the same category of illegality as heroin, although not in the same mounts. But a lot of states like Colorado have essentially just said well here that product is legal. And there's been very little attempt by the federal government under the sort of big tough guy Bush,

29:48 even Obama his way Trump, there's been very little fight back on that, with the President saying, well, no, you just you can't do that. Trump's starting to do it a little bit, but the governors have taken on almost a Confederate attitude about this. Tim Walls said, you know, is this the fort Supter moment where the Feds are going to come into my state? And that's a that's a lunatic position to take. I mean, if Walls did something like paul up the National Guard to try to block ICE, I mean, I would assume Trump's next move would be to federalize it, to say you can't have a private army pointing its guns at my soldiers. And so that's the step down the road from saying well, we're a sanctuary for whatever crime we want to tolerate.

30:30 So this is something that the executive brand doesn't need to start breaking. Well, it's interesting because as you lay this out and you think about it, you know, the last time a state tried to do something like this, it didn't work well and it ignited what became the Civil War. I mean, is that what this is all coming down to. I mean that there's just so much antithical activism in our country that has lost its mind that you know, the constitution has lost its effect. Well, I don't think we're going to have an American civil war and something like one in ten males has still fought in the military has some military background. We've got all the branches plus the Space Force now, and I mean that's very true among quote unquote blue groups like Blacks, Italian Americans, Natives as well Hispanic Americans. So I don't think guys that were soldiers and those are going to be the best fighters generally are going to go fight each other. And they add to that that everyone's fat, you know, I mean, there really is not We're not going to have a call up of all the Hispanic and Italian men versus all the southern I mean, the guys would just as people started writing toward each other on four tracks, everyone realize how I'm saying this was that's not going to occur. I think what we are going to see is this regional resistance where unless the president comes in and says, look, your options are a war, you stand out with this, You're going to see states that are very, very different from other states.

31:58 And as a federalist, as long as that's legal, I don't object to that. But again in Colorado, I mean my understanding is marijuana, am fetamine and magic mushrooms, ephedron, all that stuff is legal. And at some point the federal government does have to start showing up better than it has under pre Trump presidents and saying, well, no, you can't just legalize speed in Denver, no enough of this, you can't. And that's what they're doing in Minneapolis. Minneapolis has de facto legalized illegal immigration. They're not the biggest city for illegal migrants, but they're up there. They talking about a large Somali and Somali Bantu community that I don't really feel anyone's looking into, like, are all the everyone in that group's supposed to be here. So that's just been going on. And now, I mean you see ice going through there. They're taking about about three thousand people in a couple of weeks, and you're getting this panicked reaction. That's a prelude to I think how a lot of states would react if these privileges were attacked.

32:52 Right well, and some of the stuff in Minnesota, what smells is that here the pre recepdent to this was the reveal of Somalia fraud and so well, yes, is this a knee jerk reaction to cover all this fraud and to protect what the eighty two thousand Somalis that are in the crosshairs right now? Well, it's a complex situation. I mean a lot of most of the Somali community. Now obviously they should be investigated if you've got one hundred thousand people there and people aren't sure about the background, But most of the Somali community is probably here legally because of all of these They are all of these loopholes to American immigration law, and some of them aren't even loopholes. I mean jd.

33:39 Vance went on social media the other day and said, look, this asylum thing that we've got going on right now is just people breaking the law. Right. So the US rule is that if you get to the border at a port of entry, and we're the first safe country, and this is already crazy, you can just say, not only am I an immigrant, I'm an asylum seeker, and we have to give you a hearing in front of an asylum judge now, years in the future. So people here down the road or something. How ridiculous is that? Well? Yeah, And I mean the other thing with this is, of course, you know, possession is nine tenths of the law, and the squatter's rights period of possession a different area of love, but it's usually seven years. So if you're in the USA and you haven't committed a felony and you marry an American, which can make you a citizen within a couple of years, when you get to your asylum hearing in eight years, it's not even going to matter that your asylum plane was fake. No one's going to send you home. I mean, your kid's a starting quarterback, Like there's a judge in your county. You know, it's not going to happen. So that's why people are doing this.

34:38 But the thing with the asylum hustle is not only most people already knew that was a scam but were reasonably comfortableish with it. We're now seeing people walk through seven or eight countries and claim what's called president asylum. In this they're preferred country, which is at the end of the line. So you've got people from places like Costa Rican, Ecuador, but you're nice countries, they don't have any wars. They're just lower income walking. They're not even walking, but taking planes. But coming from you know, Keto and Ecuador, up to Ciudad New Mexico, Mexico and Mexico, and then just getting to the border and coming in. So you've come through eight countries and none of these countries is even El Salvador are now straped up under Bouquele. None of them are dangerous places at all. You could have settled in Costa Rica, so on down the line, l sal two or three other places. You're now getting here and you're taking advantage of our asylum loophole anyway. So it's stuff like this in immigration law that I think is irritating people. Because of all this, a lot of the Somalis probably aren't technically here illegally. But getting to the point, Yeah, the reason Trump initially took notice of Minneapolis, and as a mayor, you don't really want the president uniquely focusing on your city. It's like you're you're the hit of sales. You don't want the CEOs sitting on the floor all day because you guys haven't been selling it out. So the Somali thing essentially was large scale PPP style fraud during COVID and shortly after. And yeah, that community in particular seems to have builked about twelve

36:10 billion dollars out of the USA. So that's why Trump took notice. And then you realize, okay, not everyone there is a legal American. So that's why Ice took notice. And you got all these people floating into the city. Exactly, we got to go to a quick break. We got more from Will after this. Stay with us. You still got it. But your immune system weakens as you age, making it harder to fight flu newmacacal pneumonia RSV and COVID nineteen. As your doctor a pharmacist, which vaccines you need? Sponsored by Pfizer. This is Carrie Cooper. The FOO fighters have gone on to become one of modern rock's most successful bands and ever Long is lyrically and sonically perfectly formed and depicts that kind of insatiable love that everyone hopes to find one day. But why is it resonated with so many more?

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39:58 Call right now to donate your car, and as a special thank you for calling, you'll receive a free three day vacation voucher to many exciting locations. Call Heritage for the Blind right now, one eight hundred seven eight five nine six one eight. Donating is easy, and your vehicle is towed away for free. Plus you'll get a free vacation voucher. Call now one eight hundred seven eighty five nine six one eight. That's one eight hundred seventy eight five nine six one eight. We're back with the America. Bill Martinez here, and we've got doctor Wilfrid Riley, the professor of political science at Kentucky State University of the author of Taboo Ten Facts you Can't talk about lies. My liberal teacher taught me, yes this situation. And you talk about Mayor Fry, who likes the attention of Donald Trump. I mean, like this gives him some kind of standing in place. Even though he looks like an idiot, it doesn't matter. He much prefers the attention that he can say that somehow he's getting under the skin of Donald Trump. Right.

41:06 Yeah, well, it's the whole resistance live thing. I mean, so Fry and Tim Walls are sort of male icons for a lot of the Handmaid's tail outfit wearing wine moms that are showing up to the less violent of these protest events. And yeah, the idea of being the you know, the reasonably attractive, fit liberal guy who's standing up face to face with Donald Trump. I think appeals to Fry in reality, Like I said, this is the kind of thing as a mayor you want to avoid. You don't want federal agents fighting your citizens and cops and running through the street and grabbing people. I mean, like it's just it's if you just kind of keep quiet and run your city, that doesn't happen. And it well run cities. I mean, you don't hear a whole lot about San Diego or Nashville other than the tech boom or something like that. They're sort of doing their things.

41:54 Top ten, Top twenty cities in the USA. Minneapolis, on the other hand's been very prominent since Floyd's death, and again Fry was exploiting as a harsh word, but was one of the guys on the front lines at that I mean he was kissing George Floyd's golden casket and pretending to cry. And he definitely he's been a national figure really since that point in early twenty. Twenty, right exactly. And how has it served the community? There? Is the community better offer? Are they are? They just haven't quite discovered that you know, Fry is for himself and he's not for the community. Hasn't really advanced the community. I mean, they're still recovering, you know, from all the damage done, you know, for the George Floyd writes thank you very much, not only that community, but others across the country, something like what totaling four billion dollars in damage, property loss, job loss. I mean, it's just an absolute disaster, you know. Will I was looking at these stats and I thought this was interesting that Bill Clinton during his administration deported twelve and a half million illegals. Right, no protests, no rights, Okay, George W. Bush deport's ten point three million, no protests, no riots. Barack Obama five point two million, no protests, no riots, Donald Trump a fraction one and a half million, and you've got over three hundred and fifty protests and riots.

43:19 Yeah. I mean, so a lot of this is just that protest activity and political behavior doesn't really track with reality, attracts with impressions. So, I mean, during the whole George Floyd crisis, the Skeptic Research Center good libertarian think tank, looked at how many unarmed black people the average citizen thought were killed by the cops each year, and the figures like ten thousand, this on the left side of the fence. Conservatives were much closer. But I mean, the reality, as you know, is that the total number of unarmed, unarmed black people shot annually by the cops is like twenty. If you add in everyone else working, poor whites, Ethnics, Native Americans on reservations, it's it's well under one hundred.

44:01 So people were operating and that led to riots and so forth on the basis of this false impression. And it's the same thing now, like if you were to ask a liberal who deported the most people in the past twenty to thirty years, they wouldn't say. They would never say Obama, who was over five million and who called himself the deporter in chief. They probably wouldn't say Bush, who was a nice, sort of cuddly guy in his way. Everyone would say Trump. And that's factually not real and in fact, it's blocking larger scale deportations by Trump that people think this. I mean, so you're getting this hysterical reaction where one of the reasons Barack Obama was able to deport so many people is that he was seen as a Democrat but decent on immigration. So even blue cities would just give him their rosters of people that were in jail that were criminal illegals, and Obama then had a pretty easy job. He would send ice to the jail house, they would grab the guy, and they would take him down to Mexico or Columbia or whatever.

45:03 With Trump, I know Minnesota, I know Minneapolis County and Hennepin County flatly refused to do that. They won't put illegal aliens in any situation where Donald Trump could deport them. And that that's what leads to this crazy situation where you have police defending and mobs of people protesting for some guy and the guy turns out to be a rapist, like a lot of these guys have been the worst of the worst, like those two long pedophiles that were allegedly living in one house. One of them already turned out to be in prison. He'd gotten picked up for something else while he was on the run for immigration. So that that is who people are fighting for in some of the blue states, And again it's due to political partisanship.

45:43 Well, you know, in this type of crisis management, you know, Trump had to do something. He had to get Christy Noman and Greg Bovino out of there because they represented the type of action that was just igniting things there. And so you bring home and in you know, of law enforcement, law enforcement guy and tries to reason and believes that he has some ground of agreement with Fry and Waltz, but no. Sooner on the other side of a news conference, you know, they're claiming, well, there's no agreement and everything. But Trump had to back off and just say, look it all right, you guys want it that way, you can have it that way. And when you're you know, finally are fed up with dealing with it, then you can ask me nicely and say please, and maybe I'll come back and help you.

46:34 Yeah, I mean so, I actually I think there's a big place for ruthless a moral leadership when you're the king. Basically, when you're the president of the United States and you you know, you talk about that with your priest, but you're gonna have to make decisions about war so on. I actually always kind of liked the w Bush or even Barack Obama approached to very ruthless decisions, which was like I'm gonna smile and wear a Brooks brother suit and kill a lot of people if we're being block I mean, Bush was responsible for the victory and Gulf War two. Donald Trump has a different approach, more of a businessman's approach, which is, you know, I'm going to directly take on the opposition face to face, and seventy five percent of the time I'm gonna win, and other times you're gonna lead into this complex, confusing situation where like in Minneapolis, at some point both sides are just going to declare victory, like ICE is gonna get up to their five thousand in person total, they're gonna leave.

47:24 The city's gonna cheer and Ice is gonna cheer. I don't know if that's more productive than the back room meetings where you get the list of every criminal illegal. And I think Holman would have been able to do that starting off, and then you take him out of there. I will say, as a caveat here, once you decide to go with like the bigger, let's say, fist approach, I would personally stick with it. Like I don't know if I would have taken Norman Bovino out of there. You know, Donald Trump obviously has information we don't but the whole thing was Minneapolis is outraged because they feel that Ice murdered two innocent people. But I just didn't murder two innocent people. I mean pretty For example, is one of the signal fighters that we were talking about, we now on video. This came out after the Bobino decision.

48:12 We've seen him in two other fights with the cops, you know, and one he's fighting pretty hard, they take him down, he breaks a rip and another one he's the sole instigator. He kicks the five hundred dollars tail light out of a vehicle and he's literally and I don't mean to mock the guy, but he's screaming, assault me, sualt me, fight me. And there's a point where like, Okay, I mean we're all adult males. You're standing outside yelling this. I mean, I'm a cop. What are you happen? I don't want you to be disappointed. So here I am, you know, I mean, what's up? Like, It's just there's there's a point where this kind of provocation is going to be responded to. So no, I don't I don't think Ice murdered anybody. The renee Good situation where it's a mom and someone is sad, but you can't take your escalator or whatever and drive it at a at a federal officer. So sometimes they're gonna shoot, sometimes they're not, but they're not even investigating that case. That's a good shoot according to definitely the federal rallies. I don't think the local boys are investigating in there. So you have all this noise and then you have the reality of no, there aren't any unprovoked murders.

49:12 And in that context, I probably i'd keep them on the ground. But you know, we saw the decision made. Yeah, well I have a tendency to agree with you on that, and I kept saying, they need to just bring the paddy wagons out. Just bring the paddy wagons out, get these people, put them in the back of the bus, go detain them, let them cool off somewhere for a while, put them through the process, and you know, start attacking these because basically, to me, will these people are the people that are in a theater yelling fire. Yeah. Now, there actually is a technical reason that we're probably both familiar with why they can't do that. The governor is walls and so there's this incredibly if you talk to a cop off the record from Minnesota, and I don't know if this is all formal policy, but what does say is we were told not to interfere with these signal idiots. And it'll be phrased in those terms, like you know, if law enforcement has each other's back off, an ice guy's being beaten to that, they'd probably jump in.

50:11 But even at the level of like two guys with fighting sticks confronting an agent, the agent has his gun out, the police are not supposed to get involved. And that led directly to at least the Renee Good death of my Opigon. So like this, this is the policy there. So for Trump to get the patties out and round up all these people, I mean, you'd probably have to use federal I mean, they're a federal prison in town. I guess you could do it, but you'd have to deputize prison guards. You'd have to bring in hundreds of people from the federal side of the fence, because the state authorities have said that they're not going to get involved. And that again ties it to where a sanctuary state, where a rebel state. And again you've got to emphasize how crazy it is that people are saying things like we're a sanctuary state, where a rebel state. That's General Sherman talk without the army in gray, you know. But that's where we are well.

51:00 And but to me, it's kind of like we're back in kindergarten and we're in the sandbox of life, and you learn real quick that if you're going to be mastered by a bully, if you don't bully a bully, you're going to end up being mastered by that bully throughout your educational career. Right. Yeah, Well, it's like the old line about it. If you go to jail after a high school fight or something like that and someone challenges you to fight, you have to fight. I mean, you're not going to win. Probably that guy's had a lot more time to work out than you. But it's just it's either that or you're going to be abused, perhaps quite literally for the six months or whatever you're sitting there. That's true, I mean, it's I mean, that's true in a lot of hyper competitive environments athletics. So yeah, I would say that the same thing is true here. There's a weird kind of sort of cry bullying that goes on on the US political left where people are behaving in a pretty aggressive, pretty sociopathic way. What do you think about it when they're saying things like, we won't let you enforce the law. Here, here are are armed people to stop you from enforcing the law. But it's combined with this sort of like how dare you hit back at us? We're just innocent little children. All of that. That's why students are always put on the front lines of these violent demonstrations. White people are now being encouraged to frontline because their privilege will protect them quote unquote. That's why they have those moms out there. If you remember the line of moms from the Portland riotsland, they rioted for one hundred days, and one of the reasons the agents didn't just go

52:31 out there and break them like the times they assembled with the shields up, was that the fighters would immediately run away and you'd have this group of like mothers holding babies and so on. Left at some point like you can't beat them down, but you've got to be willing to arrest those people too, But it's very, very tough to do that. Yeah, I hear you, well, food for thought. We'll let our audience chew on that for a little bit as we continue to try to process the insanity. And that's that's the tough thing is you're you're trying to process this craziness that's going on. Doctor Wilfrid Riley, Professor of political Science at Kentucky State University, Thank you well, take care, be well. Thanks Boo, you got it.

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55:19 Getting America back on track, Bill Martinez Live. Hey, good morning America. Good to have you with us. Six minutes after the top of the hour. Right now, we got Drew Thomas Allen. He's the author of For Christ and Country, The Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk. Drew, good to have you with us. How you doing, Hey, Bill good Man, It's great to be with you. Thank you well. Congratulations on the book for Christ and Country. And I got to imagine, you know, I'm hearing the response has just been very positive. So congratulations. Yeah, I appreciate it. I mean, I hope it will continue to resonate with a lot of people out there who are struggling to try to understand, you know, how that could happen in this country and where we go you.

56:02 Know next, Well, the challenge we've had and we saw this creeping in and this is why, you know, for our show, we've been eighteen years now plus, and the basis of the show was to be in pursuit of the truth, the whole truth, nothing but no matter where it led. And of course the basis, the predicate of it was a biblical worldview. And that's what we've held to from day one because we knew the truth was under attack. And you talk about, you know what the left has done, how it's obliterated the truth. How it continues just to flat out lie. There's just it's beyond deception. And the thing is is they have truly convinced themselves that they are they are right, And when you run up against an ideologue like that, there's no reasoning with them.

56:50 Is there? No, there's really not. I mean, what Charlie did so well is he would draw it out of them. And you know, if you want to debate these people, you do have to spend a lot of time studying the issues because you can be a leftist and be lazy because their ideology and their opinions and their policies are rooted in lies. So they can be lazy, you know, the leftist has that ability. But if you want to be a truth teller, like you know, let's go back to Christianity, go forth and make disciples of all nations. Something I realized about myself in the aftermath of Charlie's death Bill despite being a Christian my whole life is that if some atheists walked up to me in a cafe and was actually seeking to learn about Jesus Christ and wanted was open to conversion, open to learning about Jesus.

57:33 I didn't. I wasn't equipped to do it. It wasn't enough to simply believe in the fundamental, important belief that Jesus, you know, was the Son of God, came, died and rose again for our sins. That's not going to convince somebody. You've got to have mastery, and Charlie Kirk demonstrated that he had a mastery over various subjects in this country. So you know, the calling for us is to emulate that and imitate that and strive like Charlie did to you know, he represented American exceptionalism. So we've got to improve ourselves each and every day. But you're right, I mean, the left believes they themselves are gods. We believe in a transcendent power, and you know, moral absolutes. They believe in moral relativism, and they reject scripture, reject the Judeo Christian and Christian founding of this nation. And so it is tough because they don't have any guardrails.

58:22 Right. Well, I like what Augustine said, you know, to your point is that he said that we should always present the Gospel and sometimes use words. That's right, that's right. But you know, you get people reading the Bible, you're onto something in Augustine of course too. You put that scripture in front of him, give them those gospels. It will do most of the work. Yeah, there's no question. But people always will also look at you, you know, and the things they did at Charlie. Yes, you know, they debated the issue, and you know, people get uncomfortable because he asked him questions. You know, he was socratic in his approach, you know. And you ask the questions and just hear them out, and like you said, you find out really quick the depth of their conviction, and in many case the depth of their conviction is about a dime deep. But this is also something that we and your point is well made that as people of faith, as Christians, we should not be a dime deep in our faith. You know, we must study to show ourselves approved, if not only for ourselves, because the battle is constant. We battle, we battle demonic forces on a constant moment twenty four to seven basis. So we're not claiming perfection here. We're living the battle out and because of our experience on the battlefield, that brings us into the marketplace with a different type of force. You know called experience, right.

59:47 Yeah, yeah, Look, I mean much of this book it's purpose. I mean one, it's a it's a it's a personal account of my own transformation the aftermath of Charlie's death, right, And really the fundamental change was I saw in Charlie what I wanted to become. And the thing that was holding me back was I was kind of an autopilot Christian. And so I wondered, you know, okay, how can a man like this younger than me? He was thirty one, I'm thirty eight. You know what separated him from so many others, politicians and just anybody out there is that he sought out debate and he enjoyed it. He didn't get mad, he relished it. How where did he find that conviction from? Well, he found it from scripture. He found it from deepening his faith and becoming the Charlie that we saw at the end of his life, which was almost this hybrid pastor, you know, politician of sorts.

1:00:34 And so that was kind of the journey and stepping off point for me, and I have done that, and you know, a lot of things happened in my life around the same time Charlie died. You know, I was involved in a split up at a church I went to. I was church planting. We were already building a successful church with a lot of the members from there and others, a lot of young people coming there were Bible based. And it's forced me to be an activated and active Christian. You know, Christians have to be activists. So so too do you have to be for you a parent or a system of this country. You can't hand it over to the radical left. And you know something strange, Bill, it's so odd to say. You know, watching of course, and you know, seeing and witnessing Charlie die, it didn't instill me with fear. It actually absolved me of the lingering fear I had of condemnation of man or whatever.

1:01:22 There aren't many left but Democrat friends I used to have. It's gone now. And it is because if you seek the affirmation of God and not the affirmation of man, you are free. Right. Well, that's what Jesus went to the cross for, to set us free. And when you realize, I mean you look historically here he is. Jesus dies on the cross as brutal as it was, I think sometimes and I was mentioning to our audience before. I think sometimes the depiction of Jesus on the cross is in itself a false narrative, because that's not the way Jesus looked on the cross. I mean, they turned his body into hamburger. I mean, they sliced him up in all kinds of ways.

1:02:05 I mean so much sort. You know, even the Bible said, you'd be he was going to be unrecognizable, you know, but we see this cleaned up version of Christ on the cross that aside all that he went through. Now, because of what he went through and what he miraculously accomplished by the resurrection, it emboldened his followers to such a degree that eleven of the twelve were martyred. I mean, if it was a bogus concept, you think eleven of his twelve followers would be would accept martyrdom. Yeah, yeah, no, that's right, that's right. I mean there's so much. What's amazing about Christianity which truly separates it from other religions out there, is that the more skeptical you are, and the more you try and pick apart the faith and prove it wrong, the more it proves itself right and That's been my experience too. I love you know, apologists and apologetic around Christianity as well. You know, faith is important, that you have to have that, but you can approach it like Lee Strobel and these you know journalists who were atheists that converted through exactly that.

1:03:14 And you know Charlie, you know, absolutely was a martyr and a martyr in our time. And it's not just because he was killed for his beliefs, which were rooted in his Christian faith and scripture and following Jesus Christ. It's the it's the what happened afterwards, Like you were saying, you know, after the deaths of the first martyr Steven or you know, Paul or Peter, you know, go down the list. It didn't instill fear in the population. It expanded the faith. And that's what Charlie's effect had on me. Even though I was a Christian, I was just I was like so many Christians out there, you know. And I've seen that across this country. People that didn't even know Charlie learned who he was after he died. Bible sales sword, i mean, the the vigils, and around this country they were reminiscent of you know, a funeral for you know a head of state. You know Ronald Reagan or Billograham's crusades, And it was just a testament to how how much he accomplished in his young life.

1:04:18 Got to go to quick break. We'll pick it up on the other side. More from Drew after this stay with us. You're still grooving, still connecting, still loving, still turning up, still thriving. You still got it. But your immune system it weakens as you age. That's where vaccines come in. They help train and strengthen your immune response to fight off respiratory illnesses like flute, numococo, pneumonia, RSB, or COVID nineteen. Ask your doctor, a pharmacist. Which vaccines you need. Book in minutes at vaxsist dot com, sponsored by Pfizer. We call ourselves a SAP travel for one reason. We can help you book a ticket. A SAP for those of you that don't know, that means as soon as possible.

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1:08:56 Hey, welcome back Bill Martinez here Withdrew Thomas Allen. He's the author of Poor Christ and Country to Martyr him Charlie Kirk. You're exactly right, Drew, as you were saying that it was amazing the response and the way people embraced and they embraced the death of Charlie Kirk in a way that is mind blowing for those in the left that are so ideologically fixed. I mean, when was the last time you had anybody on the left that could be a leader of the left die like Charlie Kirk and have this kind of response. I don't recall one. No, no, it wouldn't exist because it's rooted in falsehoods, right.

1:09:37 I think also the subject matter because it seems that those leaders on the left it's all about them. I mean, look at these government officials right now. They go in they barely have two dimes to rub together, and in a couple of years they're multi millionaires. And you know, and there's just something wrong about this, But it tells you again, what is the subject. What's the object of your affection? Is it you or is it the people? What I appreciated about Charlie, what I could see in Charlie was it wasn't about him. He was on those college campuses and he knew he was putting his life. He suspected that his life was at risk, and he did it because he did it for these kids that were lost, and he was out there to show them away, to give them an example. And there's no doubt. I mean, you know, people have probably asked God a million times, why would you kill Charlie when he was doing all this great work. But then as we see historically, you know, as the Bible said, unless the seed falls to the ground, you know, and so what evil meant for bad, God turns in for good. And look at the multiplication factor, right.

1:10:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah, great point. You know it's worth pointing out theologically. You know, I lived my life this way for a long time too. Where I was I was the you know, center of my story, right, it was all about me, and we're not living our own story per se, you know, it's God's greater sh story and you know, the Bible is much of that story, but that story is not over right because Jesus has not come back again. And that's a big realization, which is, you know, there's the upper story, God's story and then the lower story, our story. And to your point, God uses all of these things. And whether you choose to be a hero or villain in this biblical tale that still persists and continues right now, God's going to use the villains and he's going to use the heroes no matter what, because the end of the day, it's his will that is going to be accomplished through good through bad.

1:11:36 And you know Charlie's Testament, you know, you know absolute example of that, and it's painful, but you know, look, we have a very little you know, we're but a mist, as the Bible says, and you know, when you when you really embrace that Christian faith, it almost gives you a superpower because you know what's after this is much better. And this is a short period. Right exactly well, and you know, as you say, it is just a moment, a moment in time. But also we need to realize, number one, God loves you. I mean, if there's anything you get from this conversation. Understand this. More than anything, God loves you. He's demonstrated time and again how much he loves you. Just think about that.

1:12:20 If you can think about how God loves you, and you know, just open your eyes. You know, the Bible says it's so obvious, it's right there. But I just pray that you accept and can see the love of God. Number one. Number two, Jesus came. Yes, he came to save us from our sin, to be the answer, so that we could be back where we belong. We're like, you know, we're foreigners. You talk about immigrants. I mean we are in a foreign land aching for our homeland. And our homeland is not in the here and now. It is in the hereafter. The next thing to realize is that, yes, Jesus came, and he's coming again, and all indications are drew a lot sooner than people realize.

1:13:03 Every day it becomes sooner and sooner his return. Right. No, that's that's exactly right. But you know, I just want to issue one caveat, and that's that as we talk about, you know, God's glory and his plan for us, that doesn't mean that you're called to be on autopilot and do nothing with your life that Jesus is just you know, that's that's not the message either. You know, we have to fight, you know, to to restore God's morality and to live up to his expectations for us while we are here. You know, we don't just sit here bedridden, you know, and wait for him to come again. That is not the calling. You know again, go forth and make disciples of all nations. That is a command.

1:13:43 And you know we need to be very courageous about talking about, uh, what's what we're really facing right now. And you know it's a violent, militant left that has a lot, a lot, a lot in common with Jehadis. You know, one does it in the name of religion, the other does it in the name of progress. But the leftist ideology is a religion unto itself. And of course their alter is power. And that's this dehumanization, this climate of hatred. You know, that's what's in this book that I want people to understand that why the left is this way and to make sure that they are held accountable for it, because there hasn't really been any accountability. Every time there's an assassination attempt or in this case a successful one, or violent acts against conservatives. The left doubles down on calling us fascists and dehumanize, dehumanizing us even further, and that needs to stop.

1:14:30 Yeah, well, exactly well, two things that you bring up. First of all, you're exactly right. We're not told because our eternity is assured, that we should sit back on the couch and eat bonbonds and watch the view. No, that's not what it's about. In fact, there's the parable of the talents, right, and Jesus spoke that for a specific reason that demonstrated that, look at we all have a job to do. Okay, Like Mark Twain said, he says, the two important days in your life is number one when you're born and number two when you discover why. I think that that's brilliant coming from Mark Twain. Still something to think about. So the talents issue, we need to be activated Christians. Wherever way you do it, however God's called you to do it. He may call you to become an apologist, to be talking like Charlie in front of thousands upon thousands of people. It may just be one person. You know, after all, what it took was one pastor that changed Billy Graham's life. When you read that story, right, you just never know and or it's just because you smiled at somebody. You didn't even say anything, like Saint Augustine says, Hey, you know, always preach the gospel and sometimes use words, so you know those things you know, to consider there that we must do what God calls us to do and to as you say, drew to be activated.

1:15:55 Well, it's funny because so many people, include myself, right, you're looking for purpose all the time, and you're looking for in your work and your job and how society you know, looks upon you right, looking for prestige. I'm the VP of this, or I'm the CEO, or you know, I make this amount of money, and I promise and guarantee you you will never find fulfillment in that. And I never found fulfillment in that either. But it's interesting, while you're looking elsewhere for purpose, every single Christian has the same purpose, which is to follow Christ, which is to be an activist in their faith. And that will fill your cup. That's filled my cup so much. It's something that I didn't have honestly my whole life because I never embraced it and put my faith first. And Bill, my marriage has improved. I've become a better father, better husband, a better friend every aspect of my life. I have an energy that I didn't even have before, you know.

1:16:46 I mean, I live in California working on East Coast time. I'm a publicist for all these people, including you know, Charlie was our client for Right Wing Revolution. I do a podcast, so I'm busy and there aren't enough hours in the day. And I was just tired because I was doing it and I didn't know why. And now I understand. You know, it is about further in that mission, and every Christian can find deep satisfaction and purpose in that right exactly well. And as you say, you know, you talk about in terms of fulfillment, you know, and I did a deep down study on this, and when I was an adjunct professor in California, you know, I was sharing with the kids that the critical issues of life is that you know, when you're employed, is number one, you need to find a job that you enjoy doing because you're going to spend eight to ten hours on it, so it should be fun. And the second thing is that you should demonstrate a level of competence. So if you're a brain surgeon and you're killing nine out of ten people, you probably need to find another gig, right just saying. The third thing is the giftings and talents that God has blessed you with must be exercised and grown. What I found in a lot of companies is you had a lot of frustrated employees because they were round pegs and square holes. They weren't designed for the position that they got placed in. And so you need to find that sweet spot where your giftings and talents aligned with the needs of the organization or your company. The fourth thing is that if all these things are being within you, all these giftings and talents are being exercised and grown, you're going to be a happy camper. And when I told the kids at that time, I said, it's going

1:18:17 to lead to fulfillment, because that only represented ten percent of the US labor force. According to the US Labor Statistics, only ten percent of the US labor force finds themselves to be fulfilled. And it says I was saying this in the class, the Holy Spirit gave me a download and I told the kids, I go Hey, the Holy Spirit just gave me a fresh download. Don't think for a second this came from me. Okay, this is directly from God, because I said, the highest calling you would want is fulfillment, and the Holy Spirit said, oh no, it's freedom, that's the highest calling. Going back full circle what we talked about, I'll let you wrap it up. Go ahead. Well, you're right, you're right, and you know you should you should bring You know, ultimately, your mission as a Christian should align with whatever you're doing in your professional life as well, and it absolutely can. And that's why you saw Charlie Kirk. He was really really you could see a man that was full. His life was full, and he knew from an early age. A lot of people never figured out. He figured out early what his purpose was and he was living it out until the moment he died. And you know, God bless him and his family and what he continues to do for this country.

1:19:22 You know, we owe him a debt of gratitude, and you know, his race is over, Bill and ours is just beginning, and we got to pick up the baton. That's the calling of the book. Hey man, threw Thomas Salin He's the author for Christ and Country, the Martyrdom of Charlie Kirk Drew. Thank you so much, God speed, my friend, God bless you. Thanks. Do you have Medicare and do you use a SEAPAP machine. This is a national healthcare alert regarding your SEAPAP supplies. Using a clean SEAPAP mask and clean supplies is important is staying healthy. The best way to make sure your SEAPAP equipment is clean is to get new supplies. If you have Medicare, we have great news. Medicare will pay for you to have new clean applies every ninety days.

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1:23:30 More than fifty percent of surgeons report feeling frequent burnout and the Board Certified Thorastic Surgeon Africa. Wallace is with us to tell us all about this important information, sharing with us the survey insights and perspective about the potential impact of surgeon burnout on healthcare Africa. Welcome Michelle, good to have you with us. Good morning, Thank you for having me Bill. Well, doctor Wallace, I mean you've been studying this. You're a surgeon yourself, so this is near and dear to your heart, and you're you know, shouting out for all the other fellow surgeons that are feeling, you know, frequent burnout.

1:24:13 Absolutely, this is near and dear to my heart, and I'm proud to be a part of this work and to give voice to the surgeons who have the courage to speak up about it. Well, it's amazing, doctor Wallace, that this new data is revealing a profession under strain, and it seems to make sense. I mean when you stop and think about it. I mean, everybody's about their busy worlds and they never really stopped to think for a moment, what, you know, what kind of stress this proficion is enduring. So it's important that you're here today to bring a light to the stress that these surgeons are under. Yeah, thank you. And so I want to highlight some of the things that the survey actually brought out. You know, the survey is providing a clear picture of what surgeons are experiencing today. We survey more than fifteen hundred surgeons across five countries, and you're right, it really wasn't surprising to hear that more than half of them experience burnout some of the time. Now this I didn't say that for a headline, and I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but this is a signal that we should be taken seriously.

1:25:19 Right because look at this impacts you know, our fellow humanoids in this journey of life and certainly in the important position that they're in. And as a result, doctor Watson, I mean, how many brilliant surgeons are we losing because of burnout? Yeah? Well, when we did our survey, what we found was that more than forty percent of surgeons that experience burnout frequently said they thought about leaving the field. Now, to replace the surgeon is not easy, it doesn't happen fast, and it's pretty costly, and so when a surgeon walks away from their practice, patients feel they feel it by longer way times, there could be lack of access to specialized care, and then the teams that are left behind feel it because they have an extra burden. So we're hoping that this conversation really helps people understand that we need to support the people, and surgeons are human beings like everyone else. Support the people that take care of all of us so that they can get back to the business of taking care of patients.

1:26:27 Well, because that's their heart, isn't it. Absolutely? Absolutely, no go ahead. Yeah, no, I was going to say, you know, as a surgeon myself and I know my fellow surgeons deeply committed and incredibly committed to patient care, and that's part of some of the burden. You know. It's that moral fatigue, you know, it is that sustained purpose that is constantly under pressure, and that's what and burnout as a consequence of that. You know, just recognize that they give up a lot of personal sacrifice, you know, the long hours, the unpredictable schedule makes it hard to recover and connect at home. There's a lot of guilt around not you know, not spending time with your family.

1:27:14 Surgery is harder to do, patients are sicker, you know, procedures are harder, and having to manage that entire patient journey that is emotionally taxing. And then lastly, the administrative burden is much more than people would expect to get a patient from before, during, and after surgery. There are so many non clinical tasks that patient that surgeons are required to do, and that really just takes away from doing what they love, which is taking care of patients. Now and I'm glad you brought that up because I think That's one of the things that's so overlooked look at. I understand our government wants to look out for us, but sometimes they implement regulations in such a way without really, you know, having a full understand standing of what's involved here.

1:28:01 As you say, because at the very start of all this, as you said so importantly, and that is that we're all human beings and you've got to imagine. I mean, at least I have to imagine. You know it firsthand. I mean, you've been living it, and I can tell from your own heart as you're expressing that you feel the significance of this. I mean, how often are you holding life and death in your hand? Everything is right there, and it's so critical what you're doing with that patient as you take them through that journey to healing. Yeah, you know, I think there are a lot of layers to this, and it's not just one problem. Yes, it could be the system, It certainly could be the inefficiencies.

1:28:43 It could be the moral fatigue, It could be the pile up of day to day stressors that over time just impact the surgeon's ability to care for patients. But I know this. Surgons are incredibly dedicated and even when things aren't perfect. Minute you walk through that operating room, you are on and the patient's safety is really the most important thing to use. So as much as this is, this is you know, coming to the surface. First of all, it's not new. There's a huge body of work out there talking about surgeon burnout. But more importantly, I know that surgeons have the capability of, even if they're struggling, to make sure that their number one priority is patient safety and they continue to do that every single day.

1:29:29 Yeah, God bless them. Doctor Africa Wallace is whether she's the global vice president of Medical Affairs Surgery Medtech with Johnson and Johnson and a board certified thorastic surgeon at Capital Health. Your research shows that surgeons feel burnout for different reasons. What are the biggest pressures that they're facing today. Yeah, I covered some of them a little earlier, but I'll run through them really quickly. Clinical intensity patients are sicker, things are harder, personal sacrifice, long hours, not feeling connected to your family, and then the administrative burden, tons of paperwork, tons of things outside of taking care of patients that don't allow you to give the focus and the energy and really commit to why you came in the surgery, which is patient care. Those are the three big ones.

1:30:20 What about solutions? What do you see as a doctor yourself? What do you think or maybe the top five things we could do that make a big difference. Yeah, I think that, you know, surgeons are practical creatures, and you know, I think there are because there are so many different causes and it's a combination of things. This could be managed on mini levels. So the first one I would say is try to relieve the administrative burden. You know, it could be technology, it could be AI, just something that would provide relief from all the paperwork. Second, surgeons want to be connected to each other. You know, surgery is a culture of silence, and you could imagine that if someone is suffering from some of these issues, that it could be incredibly isolating. And what they told us was that a simple conversation with their peer would be incredibly helpful. Getting support from leadership, you know, not just the hospital, but leaders in the field and leaders within their own departments. You know, the more senior surgeons helping the mid to and early career surgeons understand that.

1:31:29 You know, this is something that we've all experienced that they're not alone and right exactly, and also providing sort of skill sets that can help them get through it. And then lastly, I would say, they're hoping that we can develop something that would detect us earlier. Earlier recognition then perhaps maybe even prevent it would be incredibly important. And then also providing resources if they actually end up being burnt out. Well, like you're saying, I think this is key. It starts with awareness. Awareness Individually. It's like it's okay, you know, for an individual, I mean in any kind of field. I don't care if you're a professional ballplayer or whatever you do at work. I mean, if you're feeling the pressure, you got to, you know, you speak up. And for those organizations that allow for somebody to say, hey, look at I need I need to have a time out here, I mean, those are the businesses that are really taking care of their most important asset, which is their employees.

1:32:30 In this particular case, the doctors. I got to think, are you know the MVPs you know of our lives? Right? I like to think I was, but you know, but you're absolutely right. I think with any profession where there is deep dedication and commitment. You can have burnout, so it's not just limited to the medical profession. It's not limited to surgeons. Awareness is the first step, and identify and solutions is the next step. I think it's our responsibility to really take care of each other and take care of those that are taking care of us. Exactly where can they go for more information? Thank you for that, you know. To read more about the survey, please go to thenext dot janjmittech dot com slash behind dash the dash mask.

1:33:17 Doctor Africa Wallace been our guest to board certified Jurassic surgeon at Capital Health. Doctor Wallace, thank you so much, Take care be well. Thank you. Backwise, why do I go to the doctor? Working on the farm, my heart kept skipping a beat. I didn't think much of it, but my daughters made me get checked out. Turns out I have atrial fibrillation, which increases the risk of stroke about five times. Symptoms like a regular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light headedness can come and go, but if it's a fib, the risk of stroke remains. If you have symptoms, contact the doctor. I'm so glad I did visit. No Time to Wait dot com sponsored by Bristol Myers, Squib and Pfizer. What's the best way to get rid of a timeshare that you If you don't want, call the time Share Exit Hotline. We're a group of attorneys that help customers legally exit their time shares. It's an easy process. We guarantee results. You pay nothing. Exit your time share today.

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1:37:31 Hey, welcome back Bill Martinez here with Curtis Hauk from MRC's the managing editor of NewsBusters. Hey, miss Curtis, how are we doing. Hey, good to be with you. Well, they tell us democracy dies in darkness. So what happens if you're the one that turns out the light? Yeah, exactly. I mean you talk about self inflicted stuff. They're referring to the Washington Post. I mean it's like journalistic suicide. Correct, you know, And the Washington Post is kind of unique. I know, I don't know if a lot of people understand that. The New York Times is definitely always been seen as kind of a global brand. The Wall Street journals kind of the same way. The Washington Post has had a little bit of an identity crisis for a number of decades because it is the local newspaper for the most powerful city in the world. Yes, you cover national politics, you cover the courts, the government agencies. But then also you have there's no suburban you know, daily newspapers covering the areas in and around DC. So they also have to juggle writing about the roads, the schools, the mayors, other local jurisdictions, and those kinds of stories and sports at the same time. And it's not as big as New York City. As related to that, there's sports columnist Dave Kindred wrote a book maybe fifteen twenty years ago called Morning Miracle, to the point was a zamracle.

1:39:01 The paper goes out every day, the. Grand family, the people that own it, that owned it for the longest time until the early twenty tens when Bezos bought it, the ones that are lionized as part of Watergate. What are diversy depending on paper, so on and so forth. There was always this debate about what kind of paper are we. Are we a national paper or we a local paper? And they were kind of trending towards becoming a national paper, and then Bezos just hit the accelerator on that. Well, if Bill, if you want to be a national newspaper. You have to appeal to the whole country, and so you have to be appealing to more than just the ninety five percent areas of Washington, DC that vote Democrat and the eighty percent Democrat votes in the Washington DC suburbs.

1:39:45 So there's been kind of this identity crisis with the Post, and they've lost a lot of money seventy seven million dollars twenty twenty three, one hundred million dollars in twenty twenty four, even when you're the world's richest family, Jeff Bezos, that's unsustainable. Why would you do that? Why would you put money into such a losing proposition? So something had to change. I'm just not really sure about like cutting sports and local news but leaning into politics, which leads to the question of what are you offering by what remains that is not already available by the likes of Politico. Right or that even demonstrated that that was in your willhouse, and that's what gave you the bigger numbers. I can't believe, like you just said. I mean, the disease they have is that they're being driven by an ideology that represents ninety five percent of siloed Democrats. And so if that's already you know, causing you to turn the lights off, why do you want to do more of the same? Right, it doesn't make business sense to me. Somebody either that or I'm missing the calculus here.

1:40:55 No, No, it's absolutely true. I mean you're just Politico with op ed pages, and Bezos had reached this point of the disconnect where the editorial page had been tweaked slightly. They brought in somebody from the Never Trump Dispatch site to run their editorial boards. So instead of ten times out of ten their editorials or hair on fire, anti Trump hatred, it's now only like maybe seven out of ten. And with the left as a lot of people know that kind of thing is unforgivable, right, and so you have that, But the news. Side had not really changed at all. Yes, you had the talent, you had the brain drain going over to a lot of them going over to The Atlantic, which is basically older viewers and listeners may recall the New Republic's influence in the nineteen nineties with Bill Clinton the official magazine of Air Force One. Well, the Atlantic is kind of like that now for Democrats.

1:41:51 But you know, with that, we could tell you that the wash To Post news section has not really changed. It's still written all kinds of woke in all these sections across the board, but now by cutting sports, a cutting local section, people who aren't particularly political. I know it sounds weird, but there are people who just kind of subscribe it because their families did. They may have grown up in the area. They want to read about the sports teams they're now leaving two. So again it's a little chaotic. It's not whereas Barry White, say what you want about her, but when she came to CBS, she said, here's what I believe journalism is. Here's where I want to go. You know, you can ridicule it, you don't like it, but it's a cohesive message.

1:42:33 Right. The Post has not really had that in the last few years, a cohesive message of where are you going with this? Right? And you would think Bezos would know better. I mean he's a business guy. I mean he didn't set up Amazon without a message and a mission. And so for him not to be able to articulate this to the people there in the Post, I mean you let what three hundred people go correct? Yeah, and another few hunted over the last couple of years. Actually, yes, right, so they're you know, they're on life support right now, it would seem because he's trying to sustain the unsustainable. I mean this is a time for new management. I mean if it was if it was a sports team, Uh, they'd already gotten a new manager several years ago, right.

1:43:22 Right, Well, and that's the thing in politics and sports, you know, you could continually make the same decisions, just different people, and not actually have to pivot to anything different. This is you know, once again, the principal from the Simpson to miolda touch note is the children who are wrong, right, And the conventional wisdom among the lacy elite media is it is the fault that they strayed one iota from the left hard left, that if they weren't hating Trump all the time, that's why they're losing money. I honestly don't think that is the case here, because they were already it was already a losing proposition. So this goes to show that there's no consideration that people aren't reading this.

1:44:10 A number of years ago that when the previous regime came in, that Bezos had Will Lewis and Matt Murray, one of them said to the newsroom, people aren't reading your stuff anymore. And that's about a direct quote. And the staff was a gast they're still talking about it now years later that it offended them immensely. Well, it's the analytics on Google or chart beat or one of the other analytic measuring websites tell you that your traffic is down. It's a yes or no question. That's right, exactly, yeah, And there's a yes or no solution. And it seems like, you know, this is the disease of the left. They continue with eighty twenty ninety ten issues.

1:44:53 They all they're consistently choosing the minority, and you go, wait a minute, you're in business to make money. You know that is a losing cause. And this is another victim in liberal think and institutions. Is it not correct? Yeah, they're all doing yes, and they're all doing it, and there's no consideration that people aren't listening to anymore. I mean, they believe in the rule of experts, where I guess we're a bunch of idiots if we're not listening to them. They're the experts on everything from finance to rocket science, to taxes, to what is a man and what is a woman? And if you don't listen to them they so called experts on literally everything, there must be something wrong with you. And that's why I say that they are the most er. The national news media specifically are the most arrogant profession in the country, even more so than our politicians in Washington.

1:45:50 Well, and this is why they get along because it's bad father right, right. They both need their backscratch. They both hate outside criticism, so that's why they rally around each. Other, yesh right, for comfort and joy. Speaking of rallying Don Lemon, huh. Yeah, I mean Don Lemon, what's interesting about him? And speaking of rallying around the flag, the liberal media have absolutely rallied around him. The networks on their morning and evening newscast, they're refusing to mention the facts that in this case, Don Lemon was indicted by a grand jury, a jury of Minnesotan's. Now, it did not necessarily have to be unanimous, It just had to be I believe fifty percent of its percentless one. But the point is people decided that there was probable cause that he committed these crimes. That has an important fact. Media have mentioned that the DOJ had initially tried to charge him a few days after the January eighteenth incident at City's church, but they were unable to and the denial was.

1:46:55 Pe church, so they went around to a grand jury. I feel like that's really important information, Just like when you're writing a paper for school or anyone else doing media, you start with the most important information first and you work your way down when writing a story or doing a TV segment. And I feel like that's not the most important, but it's right there at the top, and for it not to be there, I feel like is purely intentional. Well, we opened up this segment about talking about democracy. Okay, so where's the sunshine of democracy on this particular issue. That's what you're talking about. I mean, that's what fortifies our country. This is what you know, brings us into check in terms of being you know, civil agents in this great American idea. Otherwise, you know, we're all looking like everybody in Minneapolis, right.

1:47:49 Yeah, there's lawlessness going on. And to tie it again to the Washington Post, we're in a situation with the Don Lemon story where you see, yet again, they'll the liberal media refusing to believe in the notion that we all have First Amendment rights. Right. They believe in the First Ament rights for themselves and as we've seen in Minneapolis, their fellow activist class on the streets. But when it comes to the rest of us having First Amendment rights, Uh, it's it's not exactly, it's it's it's in doubt. It's in doubt to be charitable. Bill Well. The thing that's so rich about this, after everything is said and done, Curtis, this was an act.

1:48:30 This was a law that was enacted by the Democrats for Democrats, and now it's come back to bite them in the back end, because thank god, there was some uh I know, you know, some consideration by the right that said, okay, we'll give you that. You know, we'll we'll protect you on planned parenthood, but you know, let's make sure we reinforce the churches and places of worship right right exactly. Uh. You know, Don Lemon and his friends have pushed back on this notion of the Face Act, which is the law that you're alluding to by saying, well, in the case of Lemon and the protesters of the church, yeah, sure, they like mentally, psychologically, may have scarred the little kids in the church, but they didn't hurt them. They were allowed to go home to their families. They weren't like Rene Good or Alex Prettie who ended up dead. And to that, I say, I was unaware that there were grandmas outside abortion clinics just randomly shiving people as they went in.

1:49:32 Yeah, right, exactly, Well, we got to leave it there. Curtis Houck has always we appreciate you coming on the show. He's a managing editor for MRC's NewsBusters. Thank you, Curtis, take care be with thanks. Bill. You got it. If you're sixty five or older and Medicare is your main source of insurance, pay close attention right now and listen for details on how you may save thousands of dollars on your healthcare costs. Did you know that Medicare can pay for things like gentle visits, home delivery of drugs, even a gym membership. Call us right now and learn how to unlock all your Medicare benefits. Medicare and supplemental plans that we provide can even offer you drug coverage with zero copays and pay for transportation to your doctors.

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