Is Social Justice Just

WEBVTT

1
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.240
The topics and opinions expressed in the
following show are solely those of the hosts

2
00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:18.000
and their guests, and not those
of W FORCY Radio. It's employees are

3
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:22.000
affiliates. We make no recommendations or
endorsements for radio show, program services,

4
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:25.519
or products mentioned on air or on
our web. No liability, explicit or

5
00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:29.359
implied shall be extended to W FORCY
Radio. It's employees are affiliates. Any

6
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:32.840
questions or comments should be directed to
those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

7
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:52.799
W FORCY Radio. Well, welcome
to the Bill Martinez Show. Great to

8
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.439
have you with us, and we're
gonna take on you know, rather controversial

9
00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:02.920
subject. It's one that comes up, especially at these days, is social

10
00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:07.400
justice. Just think about that,
right, probably you don't think very long,

11
00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:10.079
you know, you just put out
put that out there, and everybody

12
00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:14.000
has an idea. Well, our
next guest, who's going to be joining

13
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.519
us in just a moment. Robert
Robert Wables has tackled, you know,

14
00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:26.680
that topic along with twenty one accomplished
academics that do their best to answer this

15
00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.000
question. I say do their best. I understand, you know, you

16
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.040
know the fact that it's out there
is so that we can talk about it,

17
00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:38.159
but let's talk about it in an
enlightenment space, so to speak,

18
00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:42.719
that it's not just so emotional that
we're aggrieved and we're victims, but that

19
00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:51.400
we're able to really have a benefiting, uh flourishing conversation about the topic.

20
00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:59.280
Is social justice? Just in this
world of partisanship, hysteria, maliciousness,

21
00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:06.239
good intentions attached to hellish outcomes.
This incredible book that's becoming a landmark book

22
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:10.159
enters the public discourse at a critical
time. Robert Waples he's a senior Fellow

23
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:15.520
at the Independent Institute, co editor
managing editor of The Independent Review, and

24
00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.840
professor of economics at Wake Forest University. Robert, Welcome to shew. Good

25
00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.199
to have you with us. Thank
you for having me on. Well,

26
00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:29.280
thank you for tackling this topic.
When you first came up with this idea,

27
00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:36.960
did you have an argument with yourself? No. The idea is that,

28
00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:39.120
you know, there've been all these
discussions about social justice. It's it's

29
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.639
a hot topic, but it's yes, there's so much disagreement, and I

30
00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:49.080
think our thought was that if we
could kind of get back to first principles

31
00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.840
what is justice and then go from
that to what is social justice? We

32
00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:58.120
could actually kind of restart the conversation
and maybe get a moving in the right

33
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.599
direction. Right. Well, you
know when I say that you're arguing with

34
00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.080
yourself, I just this is such
a heavy lip. I mean, this

35
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.319
is a you know that you may
you may doubt yourself. I know,

36
00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.319
sometimes you get these godlike ideas and
you think, oh, you know,

37
00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:15.000
God, you're having fun with me, aren't you, Because you're talking to

38
00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:17.800
the wrong guy. You know,
I'm not the ombre here that's going to

39
00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:21.800
build the art because I know nothing
about building arcs. You know what I'm

40
00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:29.039
saying. That's that was my starting
point on this is that I think people

41
00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:34.400
are by and large of goodwill,
right, And I open my introduction to

42
00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.479
the book. I open also the
chapter that I wrote, the final chapter

43
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:44.000
in the book by saying that we
all hunger and thirst right for a just

44
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:50.400
world, and we work constantly in
ways great and small to bring about justice.

45
00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.599
So let's have people with kind of
good faith, good intentions talking about

46
00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.840
it. Yeah. Yeah, I
think what you're saying, and I agree

47
00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.800
with you this. My believes the
same thing is that we're wired this way.

48
00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:04.759
You know, We're wired with a
conscience. We know when we do

49
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.479
good, we know we do bad. You know, it's when we get

50
00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:12.719
confused that things get really squirrely.
And I understand that because right now things

51
00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.439
seem a little squirrely. So yeah, if you look at it, you

52
00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:19.800
know, you mentioned the word social
justice to a lot of people, you

53
00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:25.879
get so many different reactions. There's
some people sometimes called social justice warriors or

54
00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:31.160
something, who see social justice that
term is just a sincere attempt to right

55
00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.720
wrongs, to pull down oppressors,
to help the underdog, to do that

56
00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:40.040
kind of thing. But then people
will respond to them like, but how

57
00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.360
do the ideas you just came up
with actually help the underdog? And why

58
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.279
do you see oppressors everywhere? Okay? And so there's a lot of people

59
00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.680
on the other side, or just
say, you know what, so much

60
00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:53.480
of this social justice talk is about
it's just line in your own pockets,

61
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:58.199
right, rent seeking talking up a
problem and then you know, I can

62
00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.040
get some money, I can get
some prestigia. So there's so much baggage

63
00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.680
in it, and it's been used
as, like one of our authors says,

64
00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.800
as a cudgel, right, yes, people over the head. The

65
00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:13.000
problem with the term justice is that
implies it. If there's an injustice,

66
00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.199
you're pretty much obliged to do something
about it. And would that then involve

67
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:24.199
the state, and bringing the state
into things so often ends up just blowing

68
00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:30.040
up, even sincere attempts to solve
this, you know, with the coercive

69
00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:34.160
power of government can so often make
things worse, exactly without a doubt.

70
00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.639
You know. I like what you
said about, you know, going to

71
00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:43.079
first principles, because we need to
agree on what the standard is. What

72
00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:48.639
is the standard? What is social
justice? We start with kind of the

73
00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.879
old fashioned definition of justice, which
goes back to Aristotle, goes to Thomas

74
00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:58.519
the Quintas. People like that.
It's the constant and perpetual will to render

75
00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:02.600
to each what is due to him. Right and our day to day going

76
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:08.519
about life, making contracts with other
people, you know, talking about how

77
00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.639
to run our families. That's what
we have in mind, the constant,

78
00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:15.319
perpetual will to render each to each
person what's due to them. What do

79
00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.079
I owe you? You know,
if you go beyond that, that's like

80
00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:25.040
benevolence or you know, but just
as itself requires, did you give people

81
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.560
at least what's what is due to
them. So then social justice to put

82
00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:32.680
that word in front, what does
that mean? We interpret it as being

83
00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.240
Okay, well, now let's think
about the rules of the game, our

84
00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:44.079
laws, social norms, those kinds
of things that will promote every person getting

85
00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.560
what is due to him. And
we take our model of a person as

86
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:55.720
being one that the words I use
in the book, recognizes each person as

87
00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:01.839
unique, unrepeatable, worthy of dignity, endowed with the ability to direct his

88
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:08.240
or her own life without harming other
people, and noble enough to care deeply

89
00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.639
about the well being of others.
That's our starting point, that's my starting

90
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.000
point, right that. I mean, we're endowed with this ability. I

91
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.879
think the endowment comes, you know, direct from above. I believe with

92
00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:24.160
you, and we're endowed with that. That's why we were creative, you

93
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:30.439
know, to to yeah, and
so, but it's you know, we

94
00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.639
just don't think about, you know, how to run our own lives without

95
00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.480
harming other people. Were also,
as I said, they're noble enough to

96
00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:41.560
care about other people and want them
to flourish along with us. So how

97
00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.720
do you build a system based on
that? I think most of the authors

98
00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.319
in the book and I would agree
it's really a bottom up thing. It

99
00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:53.800
begins with just the way we treat
each other. Uh say, today will

100
00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.720
be that change that you want to
seeing others right exactly? Yeah, And

101
00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:03.680
weighs great. And you make such
a clear point here that we are in

102
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.360
doubt. We're prewired with this because
what you're talking about, I'd say the

103
00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.920
majority of Americans get it. They
their lives are operating this way. Even

104
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.879
though we may see things chaotically on
the rise, it's still in the minority.

105
00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.399
And this is what gives me faith, Robert, in the American people.

106
00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.879
I think the world at large,
as you said, for the most

107
00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.399
part, people think nobly. They
want to do right for themselves, especially

108
00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.840
people for faith. In faith,
people in faith want to do right by

109
00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:43.240
God and right to their neighbors.
That is a driven principle that you know

110
00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.919
gets us from one day to the
next. And sometimes we fail, we

111
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.919
fall short, We get that,
but because this is a guiding principle,

112
00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.919
we come back to it. Like
you said, we constantly, We constantly

113
00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:05.000
return to first principles and measure our
behavior against first principles. And because when

114
00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:09.480
things are so disruptive and we feel
like wait minute, social justice isn't just

115
00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.480
okay, what why are we there? What what is telling us that it's

116
00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:22.039
unjust? Right? Exactly? And
so we need to have firm principles.

117
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.120
And you know, for a Christian, I think that would go back to

118
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.600
those ten commandments that we've heard about
and and all the things that then grow

119
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.120
up out of that, and you
know, the things that Jesus preached in

120
00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.360
the Sermon on the Mountain that you
know, he talked about during his entire

121
00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.960
ministry and then suffered and died for
my sins, so that you know,

122
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.120
we could uh, yeah, we
could overcome all the evil and the temptations

123
00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.679
of the world. And so to
me, that's where you really have to

124
00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:56.000
get started. Yeah. So so
we get started there. We have a

125
00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:00.559
defining point, a standard, our
north star that we we understanding, we

126
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.639
agree on, and this is an
individual decision and revelation. Right. And

127
00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.480
then you go and you live life
in the marketplace, and then you run

128
00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:15.799
into people that aren't necessarily interested in
justice. They're just interested in having it

129
00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:20.080
their way. I was I was
on a radio talk show a couple of

130
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.720
weeks ago talking about this, and
the host I believe he meant this in

131
00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.600
all seriousness. He said, all
I really care about is me, and

132
00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.960
I thought to myself, in fact, I think I bluted out. I

133
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.159
doubt that's really true, you know, but we do run into people that

134
00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.000
all they care about is them,
and there are ways that when you deal

135
00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.720
with people like that, it can
it can, it can work out.

136
00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:48.240
Right. The marketplace is especially designed
to do that. You deal with often

137
00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:52.799
complete strangers. And what does standard
economics tell us, Right, there's a

138
00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.679
demand curve, there's this apply curve. There's a price that comes out,

139
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.879
and you know what, it's a
win win situation. Students, this intro

140
00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.120
right off the bat, right,
there's consumer surplus, there's producers surplus.

141
00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:11.639
It's actually a win win situation both
actually when they're not coerced to do things,

142
00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.879
when there's not fraud or theft or
something like that, that's how it

143
00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:22.519
works out. And so this we've
harnessed that institution so well in our society.

144
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.519
Of course, it doesn't solve every
problem. We've harnessed it so well

145
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:35.480
to tap the energy the innovativeness,
right of these inventors and entrepreneurs, but

146
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.320
you know, just not the famous
ones, all of us, which hardness

147
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:46.320
that so well that we have created
genuine human prosperity. I wrote a study

148
00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:54.679
last year where I looked at where
do the poorest five percent of Americans fit

149
00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.879
into the overall income distribution? Okay, so by definition, of course,

150
00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.159
five percent of Americans are to be
at the fifth percentile amongst Americans. They're

151
00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.759
also at the sixty ninth percentile among
all people living in the world. But

152
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:13.240
in the paper, I then went
back and looked at estimates from economic historians

153
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.360
and demographers, like all the people
who've ever lived, where did the poorest

154
00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:22.799
five percent of Americans fit in that
income distribution? And discovered it's about it.

155
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:28.240
The ninety fifth percentile, the ninety
percentile, our poorest because of the

156
00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.200
system that we have built, just
as us trading with each other, mostly

157
00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.399
self interested, has allowed the poorest
people to be among the richest all time.

158
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.399
I am so grateful that I live
in that situation, you know,

159
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:48.000
materially that I don't face the sheer
hunger and malnutrition and lack of good clothing

160
00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:52.960
and shelter and everything that most people
have struggled with throughout most of human history.

161
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:58.080
We're pretty we've done a pretty good
job at Wibano's absolute poverty. Wow.

162
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.840
Thank you God for that men,
and let's not thive that away and

163
00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:05.720
then not let's not also then worship
Mondment. Right, let's not think that

164
00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.840
that was the end of the whole
thing. But that's not It's all about

165
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.080
and that's a stepping off point,
right, a springboard for us. And

166
00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.320
then too, you know, rise
to that nobility in which God made it

167
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:22.360
right, help and help us hold
it in proper perspective to where it's advantageous

168
00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.279
for all concerned. Robert Wakeles is
whether it's a senior fellow at the Independent

169
00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:31.879
Institute, co editor managing editor of
The Independent Review, and a professor at

170
00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:37.440
economics at wake Forest University. We're
talking about his new book is Social Justice

171
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:43.039
just uh he edited it. He
was blessed and we're blessed as a result

172
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:48.759
to bring together twenty one accomplished academics. Robert, how did you do this?

173
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:56.039
How did you get uh, you
know, these network of willing academics

174
00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:01.159
to participate in answering this heavy question. We were actually very lucky. The

175
00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:07.120
book is published by the Independent Institute
and the set of the papers in it

176
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:11.399
were published in The Independent Review,
which I edit. But to encourage people

177
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.519
to contribute an anonymous donor I do
not know who this person is put up

178
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.080
ten thousand dollars for the best essay, and that's right, did some pretty

179
00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.480
good? Actually? Wow? Yeah, so Jim Oddison, who's chapters in

180
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.519
the book, he's of professor,
a philosopher teaching in the business school over

181
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.639
at Notre Dame. He won the
ten thousand bugs. Very very nice.

182
00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:35.559
But did you take you out to
dinner at least? Well, you know

183
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.879
i've happened in a while. No, he didn't. He didn't take me

184
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:41.840
out to dinner. Well, well
we'll dinner. Shame him here on the

185
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:48.679
TV show. Okay, I'm not
actually the kind of guy that says,

186
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.879
hey take me out. Of course, of course you're not. But no,

187
00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.279
I mean, hey, look at
it's uh, you know, so

188
00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.799
we we didn't get a lot of
people. And you can see there from

189
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.200
actually from number of countries around the
world. There's economists, there's philosophers,

190
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.440
there's historians, there's legal scholars,
there's people from like, you know,

191
00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.799
all sorts of different backgrounds, and
they you know, they're all coming from

192
00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:15.639
different starting points and they all have
kind of they've been thinking about these ideas

193
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.759
for a long time, and so
we've kind of galvanized them to think about

194
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.840
it, and I think we got
some excellent chapters, and Jim's chapter in

195
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.720
particular, you know, I'll talk
about a little bit. He's a Smith

196
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.879
scholar and Adam Smith's scholar, and
he basically argues, you know, we

197
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.000
need to get back to Smithian principles
in doing this. And so what did

198
00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:37.519
Smith advocate in his book The Theory
of Moral Sentiments and then later in the

199
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.039
Wealth of Nations. Basically that cooperation
is the key. We need to set

200
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.440
up institutions that allow people to cooperate
with each other, and we need an

201
00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:56.120
authority collectively to make sure that people's
the three p's and people's persons, property

202
00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:02.320
and promises are protected. Right.
If you set that system up, you

203
00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:07.200
will see prosperity emerge. And it
was happening at the time Smith was writing,

204
00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.159
and you can see places around the
world where it's just happened, like

205
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:15.840
within a generation. Think about Hong
Kong, think about Singapore. You know,

206
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.720
people living there largely from China,
but now they're put in a new

207
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:25.799
setting, not under the old Chinese
imperial system or communist system later, but

208
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.840
in the kind of same kind of
system. Adam Smith was in actually the

209
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:36.200
British teaple system and what happened They
started trading with each other and they just

210
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.840
got more and more and more prosperous, and so it didn't make them perfect

211
00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:45.080
people, but it sure did solve
that fundamental human problem. Yeah, don't

212
00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.919
you love system I love systems,
you know, because they're they're easy to

213
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:53.919
measure, you see results from it, you can adjust it. And what

214
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.759
he addresses here to me, I
just in my latter years of life,

215
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.440
I've just come to appreciate it because
it's like, you know, I'll talk

216
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:07.319
about God's infrastructure at times, Robert, and God's infrastructure is so perfect.

217
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.839
It's designed too. By the way, for some people this may be a

218
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.440
little disturbing. Brain it does accommodate
and handle climate change. Okay, just

219
00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.400
I just want you to know,
because God Almighty is in charge, He's

220
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.319
got that all figured out. And
that doesn't mean that we don't have a

221
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:23.279
role to play. I'm not saying
that. But I'm just saying is that

222
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:29.640
God's infrastructure is there. It's in
place, and it's quite evident and obvious,

223
00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:34.799
as obvious as is the law gravity
that when you divide his infrastructure.

224
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:41.400
You're you're gonna have consequences and it
could be very painful, right, Yeah,

225
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:47.359
So I genuinely believe in the idea
of divine providence. You know,

226
00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:51.640
God said this system up for us
so that we would well, I mean,

227
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.279
he designed us so they will actually
get back home in the long run,

228
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.880
back up. Well, he wants
he wants it, he wants it

229
00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.319
to go well with us. I
mean that's what he told Jane, right,

230
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.000
if you do right, will it
not go well for you? And

231
00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:08.720
that that warning echo has been echoing
through the millennium since. Yeah, So,

232
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.920
I mean he he, I don't
think made us to you know,

233
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.359
be living a life like an animal
or living. He made us in his

234
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.920
own image and life this and you
know, I think that includes us prospering,

235
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.440
but of course then not worshiping our
very own prosperity, which is a

236
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:33.119
problem that I see you know,
so often welling up. That's to me,

237
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.279
the biggest challenge going forward for humanity
right in the old days was how

238
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:41.279
to live with all that absolute poverty
and all that scarcity. We'll always have

239
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:45.680
scarcity with us, but it's sure
is binding a lot less. And now

240
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.039
it's like, how do we live
with this prosperity and actually lead flourishing lives.

241
00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:52.319
We've seen, you know, all
sorts of problems in American society,

242
00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:57.519
Western society, wealthy country society,
or you know, we just are still

243
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:04.799
thinking in kind of not thinking about
the big picture and and just spinning our

244
00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.799
wheels and not and not putting these
great games to good news. Right,

245
00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.920
little sidebar here. I don't know
if you've seen this story that's going around

246
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:19.920
about this guy that had a what
he spent twelve thousand dollars to make himself

247
00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.279
into a dog, a collie.
Have you seen this? No, I'm

248
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.640
I am very glad I have none. O. It's it's a little bizarre.

249
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.279
I mean, people are having fun
with this. Uh but you say,

250
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.519
God designed this not to go live
like animals. But then you get

251
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.240
some people that have their own ideas, and I mean it's amazing. You

252
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:42.559
know, he's created this outfit and
he looks like a collie and they showed

253
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:47.640
him the other day like he went
out for his first walk, and I

254
00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:53.519
mean, the human condition is quite
curious. We got to go to break.

255
00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.640
We've got more from Robert Waples.
His book is Social Justice. Just

256
00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:15.440
stay with us, President Biden recently
released a massive six trillion dollar budget,

257
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.839
the largest budget in US history.
And guests, who pays the bill,

258
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:23.480
that's right, you, the American
taxpayer. American citizens and business owners will

259
00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.440
be paying more taxes, that's a
fact. And if you owe back taxes,

260
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:33.079
they will be coming after you to
collect payments. In fact, President

261
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.480
Biden also hired thousands more IRS agents
to go after you. If you've got

262
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.400
a letter from the IRS and you
know you owe back taxes or you haven't

263
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.880
filed in years, don't put your
head in the sand. Call us today.

264
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.680
We've saved our customers millions of tax
dollars. One quick, free phone

265
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.039
call will show you how we can
reduce your past tax bill and save you

266
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:59.319
thousands guaranteed, or you pay nothing. Call now eight hundred nine three two

267
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.759
one five nine seven eight hundred nine
three two one five nine seven. That's

268
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:10.200
eight hundred nine three two fifteen ninety
seven paid for by the tax helpline.

269
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:15.200
Has your heater or air conditioner busted, appliance, broken, computer crashed,

270
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:21.920
then you need an AARW home warranty. Home system and appliance repairs and replacements

271
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.640
can cause stress and cost you thousands
of dollars per year. With an A

272
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:30.880
plus BBB rating and a top rated
home warranty company on Consumer Affairs and trust

273
00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:36.759
Pilot, AARW Home provides superior service
featuring the industry's lowest service call fee.

274
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.440
AARW Home has warranty plans that cover
your kitchen and laundry appliances, heating and

275
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:45.519
air conditioning systems, electrical and plumbing
systems, and much more. Call eight

276
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.240
hundred five five nine seven five six
two to customize your plan. Plus,

277
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:55.200
AARW has partnered with a Jurian to
protect your new and used tablets, laptops,

278
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.480
TV's, and other home tech from
accidental damage and wear and tear.

279
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.200
All plans come with a thirty day
money back guarantee. Call eight hundred five

280
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.480
five nine seven five six two.
How would you like to save money on

281
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.759
nearly all your prescription drugs? We've
set up a special toll free number for

282
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.119
the RX Outreach Program. They're a
nonprofit company whose mission it is to make

283
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:19.480
prescription drugs more affordable to the masses. They don't take insurance, and in

284
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:25.359
many cases, your prescriptions are even
cheaper than your copays. They carry thousands

285
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:29.400
of different prescription drugs, so whatever
you're taking, there's a good chance they

286
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:33.039
have it. No coupons are required, and this is not a discount card.

287
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.880
It is pure savings on your prescription
drugs. They specialize in generic meds

288
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.039
for any chronic health needs you have. Call with your prescription and find out

289
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.119
for free how little you can pay
for your prescription drugs. Remember, we

290
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:51.359
don't take insurance, so call right
now. Eight hundred seven O five six

291
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:57.160
five eight one eight hundred seven O
five six five eight one eight hundred seven

292
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:14.680
O five six five eight one.
Hey, welcome back. Bill Martinez.

293
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.519
Here. Robert Waples is with us. We're talking about his book is social

294
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:26.960
Justice just He had to take a
little walk and think about somebody being dressed

295
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:30.400
up and paying twelve thousand dollars to
create an outfit for themselves to become a

296
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.880
dog. Again, the human condition
being what it is. I'm going to

297
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.440
read this. It's from the jacket
of the book. In the pages of

298
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:42.440
the book, twenty one accomplished academics
seek to do justice to social justice.

299
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:48.000
Inequality exists, and it obviously causes
riffs and societies, but it's not obvious

300
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.559
how the government should address those rifts, or if they should do it at

301
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.880
all, that you know, have
we forgotten that perhaps more efficient power of

302
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:03.079
personal choice and the corollary obligation to
serve our neighbors, to make our society

303
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.119
more humane? Uh? You know, Robert, you suggested as much as

304
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:14.839
that, when we're allowed to be
free human beings, it's amazing how the

305
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:21.119
economy, within the design that God
has established for us, it works itself

306
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.880
out if it's allowed. But when
you get government that comes in and they

307
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.920
throw money at it, and they, you know, in a sense,

308
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:34.880
they interrupt and disrupt what God has
established, the creating more problems than what

309
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:41.880
we began with. You have shown
the cover of the book several times and

310
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.960
it's a striking picture. It's you
know, it's supposed to be justice being

311
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.400
blind with the scales, but this
justice is speaking out from underneath that little

312
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:55.240
blindfold kind of built things into one
side or the other, and that's that's

313
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:59.200
what we can't have. And our
government does that in a number of ways.

314
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.559
And so the book is i'll say, a sober warning that you know,

315
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:08.599
even honest attempts to involve the state
and it's coerced redistribution can rapidly turn

316
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:12.480
into just rent seeking, as economists
call it, trying to get your own

317
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:18.759
cut. But the book also includes
a number of calls to stamp out unwarranted

318
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.200
privileges that are currently in the system. So there is chrony capitalism. There

319
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:29.839
are firms out there that have gotten
there. Much of their profits come from

320
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:33.519
just having friends in the government.
There have been some big corporate bailouts and

321
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.960
that kind of stuff. You had
bail one guy out, and then everybody

322
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.559
else expects you to do it.
They take bigger risk, and the next

323
00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:42.079
bailout's got to be even bigger.
We gotta nip this, We gotta prune

324
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.359
this problem back, We gotta get
rid of it. We need to dismantle

325
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:51.759
barriers to entry so that people can
take their talents and bring them to other

326
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.359
people. Right, we restrain the
supply side in so many different ways.

327
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.799
You know, Occupational licensing is one
of the things that's talked about several times

328
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.759
in the book. Here are people
that you know have these skills, but

329
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.440
they don't They haven't checked off the
right boxes, so they don't have whatever,

330
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.000
you know, license they need from
the government. What does that do

331
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.480
in simple economics, I would tell
my students that that shifts the supply curve

332
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.880
in and drives the price up,
and so those special insiders get bigger profits

333
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.839
than the other way, and the
customer gets ripped off in the process,

334
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.480
and those outsiders who can't jump through
those hoops, they're left out in the

335
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.599
cold. They can't even exactly saw
off the first rung on the ladder to

336
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.240
success, as they say, right, yeah, well, of course we're

337
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.920
seeing a lot of this right now
with you know, the Hunter Biden case.

338
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:45.559
What's being revealed. Devin Archer had
an interesting interview with Tucker Carlson the

339
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.079
other night, and I think people
are waking up and realizing, I mean,

340
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:52.799
at least I mean going, that's
right, those guys in the Beltway,

341
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:56.160
what are they selling. It's not
like they got a widget, it's

342
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.000
not that they're doing a hotdog stand
or something like that. They're they're just

343
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:06.440
they're selling their connect their connections.
Yeah, right, exactly, And that's

344
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.799
that is the kind of thing that
I think everybody agrees we need to stamp

345
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.319
out, and so we've got to
figure out ways to do it. It's

346
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.960
really hard to do it, right. I don't know if you've heard of

347
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.480
the economist Manser Olsen. He wrote
this very influential book, The Logic of

348
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.279
Collective Action. And so the whole
problem is this, think about it like

349
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:32.720
a tariff. I always talk about
the sugar tariff in class. And there's

350
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.799
this one family that owns a lot
of sugar businesses, and then there's a

351
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.680
cooperative down in Florida of sugar growers, and together they're like half the market.

352
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.000
And so if they lobby and they
get some tariff increased, boy do

353
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.720
they profit from it. It's you
know, it's going to profit them to

354
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.880
lobby, and they lobby both parties, they do all that kind of stuff.

355
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.240
They ended up winning it. You
know, estimates like a billion and

356
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.079
a half extra knowledge for the profit
for the industry. We consumers have to

357
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.839
pay more and we lose more than
they went. So we lose like about

358
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.400
three billion dollars. But you divide
that by the population of the US and

359
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.559
it's like less than ten dollars per
person. And so we don't get together

360
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.839
with pitchforks and torture go down the
Capitol Hill and say get rid of this

361
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:18.319
bad law. They're organized and we're
disorganized, right, and so what we

362
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.839
need is actually more groups I think, like the one that you know that

363
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:29.039
I edit the journal for the Independent
Institute that are fighting the good fight for

364
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.519
for the consumer, that are fighting
the good fight for the people not in

365
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.799
the special interest out there explaining what
they're doing and how you know, they're

366
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.920
taking advantage of everybody else. And
we need to make it so that it's

367
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:45.519
just embarrassing that you would take some
kind of you know, cut from some

368
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.559
from a special interest. Well,
well the dealers are also, I mean

369
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.039
when you talk to them sometimes they
you say, well is that legal,

370
00:28:53.720 --> 00:29:00.240
and it's you know, and it's
it almost becomes an ethical issue. Well

371
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:04.119
it's kind of legal, Well is
it ethical? Well, you know,

372
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.319
you start getting into those gray areas. So again going back to what we

373
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.839
first talked about first principles. See, we haven't defined first principles. If

374
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:18.759
first principles are defined, then we
understand that insider trading is something that shouldn't

375
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.079
be taking place. But the legislators
have been able to do an end around

376
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:27.079
and still managed to do insider trading
though, I think what four or five

377
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:32.039
years ago, after an investigation,
they said, okay, well we got

378
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:33.839
found out, so we better back
off a little bit. And they backed

379
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.960
off I think maybe for a couple
of years, and they came back with

380
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.720
a vengeance because they had to make
up for the two years that they lost.

381
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:47.160
Right. I think sunshine is,
as they say, a very powerful

382
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.680
disinfectant. Right. And so yeah, we know, and there are organizations

383
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.519
out there, but it's also our
job. We've got to pay attention.

384
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:00.799
There's a concept in economics called rational
ignorance, and we, we voters are

385
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.079
just rationally ignorant about those things because
you know, it's costly to get this

386
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:07.759
information. Was the benefit of us
having it tiny, So we don't get

387
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.160
much of the information, and you
know, we go off and read a

388
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.839
book or watch a baseball game or
a batch of show or something like that

389
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.839
instead of paying attention. And that's
how they're they're able to get to that

390
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.440
equilibrium where they can get away with
with all of this stuff. So it's

391
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:29.720
one of those almost intractable problems that
you just need to work relentlessly at stamping

392
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.880
it out. And the first step
is to just get up and say it's

393
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:38.279
wrong. It's exactly doing it.
Yeah, we don't have enough talking about

394
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.880
you know, it's just wrong that
you're doing that. Well, now,

395
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:48.279
We've got you know, politicians and
leaders and whatever all over the political spectrum

396
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.440
who do outrageous things and it's just
getting you know, so that the standard

397
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.160
of wrong, you know, standard
of what they're going to do next is

398
00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.400
just getting you know, more and
more out. Yeah, yeah, why

399
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.079
are you picking on me? That
other guy's doing worse than I am.

400
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.000
But you know, to your point, I like whatever Dickerson said, you

401
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.079
know back in the days when it
was a million dollars that I think you

402
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:12.279
may have said it's a billion here, a billion there before you know what,

403
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:15.799
you're talking about a lot of money, and you know, this is

404
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.720
where we're at. We're thirty two
and a half trillion dollars in debt and

405
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:26.400
we're moving in the wrong direction,
and especially with interest prices or interests uh

406
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:33.039
increasing. Uh, we're what do
we have about half half trillion? Uh?

407
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:37.799
In terms of managing the debt service
right off the top, I mean

408
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:42.359
we're going to be approxritingillar it a
lot of the debts kind of short terms.

409
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.119
So once all the debt kind of
has to roll over at the new

410
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:49.319
higher interest rates, think about it. Uh, let's say five percent interest

411
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:55.599
on thirty plus trillion dollars. You
know, that's that's a trillion and a

412
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:00.720
half dollars. That starts to crowd
out things that can be you know,

413
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:02.880
the government has some roles in the
economy and that it should be doing and

414
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:09.960
focusing on those things instead of us
just always being so shortsighted that you know,

415
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.440
we keep kicking this can down the
road, as they say, and

416
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:20.359
this never let's let the next generation
deal with it. And there's another problem,

417
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.960
and it's not when we really address
in the book. I wrote an

418
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.680
op ed piece not too long ago, it was actually published on on Father's

419
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:30.480
Day and National Review online about how
we're running out of kids. You know,

420
00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:37.039
people just are not having children anymore
for whatever reason when they do that.

421
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.839
So it's not just the Chinese,
right, yeah, it's not just

422
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:46.119
them, it's us. The people
just seem to exaggerate the costs of having

423
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.519
children, raising children, and especially
minimizing the benefits. This is like the

424
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.279
greatest thing that happened to me in
my life, becoming you know, getting

425
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:59.079
married to a beautiful woman, having
five beautiful children with them, right,

426
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:05.519
it's a transformative experience. We've got
to explain that other people having children is

427
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:09.400
the greatest thing. And if we
don't, not only will that make our

428
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:15.720
lives worse, but it'll make those
people who do have children's lives worse and

429
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.039
their own lives when they're older because
our population will shrink. World's population will

430
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.599
probably start shrinking during my lifetime.
And when it starts shrinking and we're this

431
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.200
deep in debt, who's going to
be able to pay off that debt?

432
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.599
The tax levels are going to have
to go through the room, and you

433
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:37.480
know we will will end up if
that all plays out, being like Argentina

434
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.319
or something like that. Well,
what's so scarier about to me is the

435
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.440
psychological impact that this has. I
mean, you're you're going to have a

436
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:54.119
lot of unhappy campers. Yes,
I mean the joys of parenthood will will

437
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:59.880
be lost. But then I have
a colleague who's from China and the northern

438
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:04.440
part of China that has the lowest
fertility rates. And she's an only child,

439
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.800
okay, and her parents were only
child and she's she's a girl and

440
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:10.920
the only child, she's lucky to
survive. Well, she's a miracle.

441
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.639
And so you know her parents were
only children too. Given China's policies,

442
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.679
that means that not only does she
not have a brother or sister, she

443
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.679
doesn't have uncle, aunts or cousins
as well. Imagine living in a world

444
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.039
like that. And so she's actually
she just had a baby a few months

445
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:34.480
ago. And so you know,
I visited her class one time. She's

446
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.039
a junior colleague, and she was
talking. The example she was giving in

447
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.960
class was some data she collected amongst
the students, like how many siblings you

448
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.159
have and how happy you are.
And she found with the sample of students

449
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.559
that the more siblings you had,
the happier, the happier you were.

450
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.039
We are designed, I think,
to be very social people like that.

451
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:54.079
Yeah, you think, I think
so. You know, that's when we

452
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.239
go with the design. I think, well, that's great application here we've

453
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:00.639
got to go to break Robert waples
Can continues with us. The senior fellow

454
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:19.159
at the Independent Institute is social justice. Just stay with us. This radio

455
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.000
commercial was made to convince you to
stop speeding. We can't use siren sound

456
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.679
effects on the radio, so we'll
use other equally jarring sound effects to get

457
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.000
your attention, like telling you that
whether you drive a little over the speed

458
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.559
limit or a lot, you can
crash. Just the same. You could

459
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:37.760
hurt yourself or worse others. I'm
at the scene of the collision and the

460
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.559
damage you cause will be beyond repair. See, we didn't have to use

461
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:46.079
crash or siren sounds. After all, speeding catches up with you. Brought

462
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:50.239
to you by NITSA. Hi.
I'm Ronnie Deutsche And if you or your

463
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.320
business own money to the IRS,
I've got great news for you. Tax

464
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:59.679
laws have changed. Billions of dollars
are earmarked for IRS fresh dart programs.

465
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.599
If you qualify, you can literally
save tens of thousands of dollars. Listen,

466
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.239
I know what you're going through.
Call on me if you want to

467
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.880
speak with a tax attorney or tax
professional. Four free eight hundred two four

468
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:15.119
seven one four nine eight. How
would you like to save money on nearly

469
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.159
all your prescription drugs? We've set
up a special toll free number for the

470
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.960
RX Outreach Program. They're a nonprofit
company whose mission it is to make prescription

471
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:29.039
drugs more affordable to the masses.
They don't take insurance, and in many

472
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.719
cases your prescriptions are even cheaper than
your co pays. They carry thousands of

473
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.960
different prescription drugs, so whatever you're
taking there's a good chance they have it.

474
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.639
No coupons are required, and this
is not a discount card. It

475
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:45.519
is pure savings on your prescription drugs. They specialize in generic meds for any

476
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:50.960
chronic health needs you have. Call
with your prescription and find out for free

477
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.559
how little you can pay for your
prescription drugs. Remember we don't take insurance,

478
00:36:54.639 --> 00:37:00.039
so call right now. Eight hundred
seven O five six five eight one.

479
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:07.039
Eight hundred seven O five six five
eight one eight hundred seven O five

480
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.119
six five eight one. How would
you like to get high speed internet for

481
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.960
your home for less than two dollars
a day? That's right, For about

482
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.039
fifty bucks a month, you'll get
lightning fast internet. Are you paying less

483
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.800
than fifty bucks a month right now
for your internet? Then called whole home

484
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:27.760
and connect right now for blazing fast
internet at fifty bucks a month with no

485
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.480
price increases, no hidden fees,
no contracts, no upfront costs, no

486
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:37.239
equipment fees. It's a great deal. And guess what, you can try

487
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.400
it for fifteen days. If you
don't like it, you get your money

488
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.920
back. But you're gonna love it, and you're gonna love the price Internet

489
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.840
for your home for fifty bucks a
month. That's less than two bucks a

490
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:52.519
day, plus no contracts, no
upfront costs, no equipment fees, and

491
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:59.000
our fifteen day guarantee call now eight
hundred six nine nine three five eight eight

492
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:04.519
hundred six nine nine three five eight
eight hundred and six nine nine three five

493
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:22.320
eight. Well, if you find
yourself asking is social justice just, it's

494
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:24.559
a good reason to get your hands
on this book. Take advantage of the

495
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.440
insight of twenty one academics who have
come to gather here to address this heavy

496
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:37.519
topic because there's so much noise,
I believe misunderstanding about social justice, first

497
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.039
of all justices. Robert Wapel started
out with, and then you bring in

498
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:47.519
the idea of social justice and it
may color your perspective just a little bit,

499
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:51.079
but that's okay, there's nothing wrong
with it. But we need to

500
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:59.039
have this conversation in the light of
day, not in silos or in ideological

501
00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:02.920
fixed corner. You know, Robert, I think it's quite interesting. You

502
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.480
have one of my favorite philosophers,
and Jordan Peterson, doing the forward of

503
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:15.000
the book on the Narcissists of compassion. Explain that to our audience. Yeah,

504
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:21.519
So he draws on Nietzsche the Philosopher
and talks about how there's this spider

505
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.960
there that basically I kind of think
of the spider, you know, and

506
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.719
learn of the rings she loves.
Right, they're gonna get you, but

507
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:36.360
basically convinces you that what's right is
wrong and what's wrong is right. Here's

508
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:42.840
here's a quote that I give in
the introduction that I think captures a bunch

509
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.239
of what Jordan says in his preface
to the book Thomas Soul, you know,

510
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:52.119
the economist Thomas. He says that
envy once used to be one of

511
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:58.280
the seven deadly sins before it became
one of the most admired virtues under his

512
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:04.239
new name, social Justice, that
what drives so much of the social justice

513
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.880
agenda is sheer envy for other people's
success. And we were talking about the

514
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:15.480
chapter by Jim Modison. What he
says we need to do is distinguish outcomes

515
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:20.480
from three different sources. Right.
One source of outcomes is just luck,

516
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:22.960
and we all like a certain amount
of luck. We don't want everything to

517
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:28.840
be based on luck. But then
the second source is decisions that we've made

518
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.559
that we're entitled to make. And
then the third source of outcomes is decisions

519
00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:37.199
we've made that we're not entitled to
make. We need to focus on the

520
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.760
third thing we need to focus on, you know, getting rid of chrony

521
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.079
capitalism, that kind of stuff.
Decisions people are making that they're not really

522
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.719
entitled to make, allow a certain
amount of luck, and focus on,

523
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.960
you know, just decisions that people
make that they're entitled to make, if

524
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.559
they are entitled to make those decisions, and then we can't really second second

525
00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.440
judge it just because we don't like
the way it ended up happening. Didn't

526
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:01.920
win, but you know, there
were the rules. We agreed that those

527
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.480
rules were fair and and that's that's
the way the game ended up. He's

528
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:09.840
got a really good example. He
uses it like this guy who's dating this

529
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:14.960
girl, he's about to pop the
big question, and then she meets this

530
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.639
other guy that she likes even more, and it's like, is he entitled

531
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:22.199
to something? No, it was. It was darned unlucky that that happened

532
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:25.719
to him. But made a contract
him, you know whatever, he's just

533
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.639
and so the same thing like then
for a store, there's a store and

534
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.440
you were going there all the time. You love the store. A coffee

535
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.199
shop and then another one opens up
across the street. You go there,

536
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.880
you like it better, and the
other poor store goes out of business.

537
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:43.880
Are they entitled some kind of compensation? No, you were entitled. You

538
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:47.239
know, we're made by God with
his ability to make our decisions like that.

539
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.679
If that's what's you know, causing
the chips to fall, you know,

540
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:55.239
then that's you know, we got
to accept differences that are gonna be

541
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:59.519
based on that. But if the
rules are rigged, you know, that's

542
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.000
where we got well that's a different
story exactly. Yeah, all together,

543
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:07.039
But I think what's happened in this
culture particularly, it seems like in this

544
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:13.360
last generation I've often said, Robert, is that parents are afraid, you

545
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:16.239
know, for their children to get
booboos. I say, go out there,

546
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:20.719
you know, go scrape up some
knees, go fall out of Remember

547
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:22.800
when you were a kid and you
went to the park and it was a

548
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:28.159
big old slide and it was metal, yes, and you first you went

549
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:30.360
down the baby slide, and then
you conquered that. Now I'm gonna go

550
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.760
down the big slide. Right now, I'm gonna go down head first.

551
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.679
It took bigger and bigger risks until
you kind of like learn what you're you

552
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:43.079
know, how far you could push
yourself exactly? Heard you for life,

553
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:46.280
so much better than all of the
plastic slides and all the kids and the

554
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.800
boo boos that we have today.
I am thoroughly convinced of that that we

555
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:53.159
not take enough risks, say,
and we certainly saw that with the COVID

556
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:59.199
shutdowns, the tiny, tiny risks
that we're going to be from children going

557
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.159
to school and changing these germs with
each other. The risks were so small,

558
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:06.719
and yet we shut down the schools
and they stopped learning, and we

559
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:10.679
just there. I see this in
my own students. They're just not as

560
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:15.639
good as the ones that who you
know, stayed with it and see it

561
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.639
in the test scores. You see
it all over the place. So that'd

562
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:22.679
be a kind of rules and social
norms, right, what is the social

563
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:30.400
norm about taking risks and about there
are some redistributional con you know, conflicts

564
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.760
that might arise from a law like
that. Some people could get armed,

565
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:36.679
some more germs could be spread around, but other people, you know,

566
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.480
you've got to think of the big
picture there. So right now, the

567
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:45.320
last chapter in the book is one
where I talk about social justice, anti

568
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:51.400
racism in public policy, and we
were looking for some of they to write

569
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.199
this chapter the people at headquarters,
and you're telling you got you got.

570
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:00.280
I'm like, I guess I have
to write it myself. Nobody else is

571
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:05.719
volunteer because it's it's a very controversial
topic. Sure, what I do in

572
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:10.039
the chapters largely have a dialogue with
Ibram Kendy, you know, the best

573
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:15.000
selling book and Anti Racism, And
I say, let's take his ideas seriously.

574
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:21.440
What policies will we put in place
to put people of all different racial,

575
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:28.159
ethnic, whatever groups on an equal
footing. He says, scrap capitalism.

576
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:35.119
Capitalism and racism are conjoined twins.
Not my reading of history. But

577
00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:38.000
if you scrap capitalism, what he
gets is socialism. And socialism, of

578
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:43.480
course, just concentrates all the power
in a few people at the tops hands

579
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.800
instead of diffusing it into the hands
of the power is in the hands of

580
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.440
the consumers and capitalism right, So
socialism concentrates the power and it also leads

581
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:57.960
to horrible outcomes. It leads to
construction of prosperity. Look at Venezuela.

582
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.159
Remember when all the celebrities went there
and met Hugo Chavs and talked about how

583
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:06.039
great that economy. Now it's gone
down the tubes. There are more people

584
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:08.360
who are refugees from Venezuala. I
saw this in the paper the other day,

585
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:14.599
and then there are from Syria.
Think about right, So, we

586
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.119
don't want people to be on an
equal footing down at the bottom of a

587
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:21.679
pit like they are in a socialists. We'd like to have them beyond relatively

588
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:23.840
equal footing near the top of the
hill or the top of the mountain.

589
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:29.079
So I say in this chapter,
well, here's some policies I think that

590
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.079
could do it for us. And
I think across if you think about it

591
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:39.039
and we're like rooting for special interests, you would you, I hope book

592
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:45.119
Greek education reform taking the power and
putting it into the parents' hands, because

593
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.599
they're the ones who know their own
children about their children the most right.

594
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:54.440
It's a healthcare reform that eliminates barriers
on the supply side, that allows it

595
00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:59.880
just to get easier for more people
to practice medicine and all of its various

596
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.039
you know kinds, so that the
price of medicine could come down. One

597
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:08.679
of the healthcare reforms that I mentioned
in the chapter is that about sixty three

598
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:17.239
percent of all black lives and in
abortions. There is something you would seriously

599
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:22.199
want to have a talk about.
I talked about occupational licensing, like we

600
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.760
talked about earlier exclusionary zoning, which
makes it hard for people to move to

601
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.719
the most productive areas of the economy
because it's so expensive. One hundred years

602
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:36.519
ago, Detroit's the hot place,
it's booming. Everybody pulls up steake moves

603
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.119
to Detroit. You know, nowadays
Silicon Valley wherever, you can't afford to

604
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:45.119
move there because the insiders put in
some rules that would benefit them and not

605
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:49.039
the outsiders, right. I also
talk about cheap energy. So now they're

606
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:54.000
getting invaded by homeless people that are
defecating on your sidewalks. So somehow just

607
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.519
for vails, I guess, I
don't know, it's just nuts yet.

608
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:02.320
I talk about cheap energy. You
know, fracking. That's a dirty word

609
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:07.840
in some areas. No, it's
not what fracking did. Especially, I

610
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.079
think about natural gas, bringing the
price of natural gas down, which people

611
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:14.559
use to heat their homes. I
cite some statistics in the chapter about how

612
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:19.639
many lives have been saved, an
economic study that looked at this, how

613
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.000
many lives have been saved due to
the cheaper energy, so that people,

614
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:25.679
you know, don't catch as many
colds and fluid and whatever and then die

615
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.639
in the middle of winder right,
and I think about ending they all out,

616
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.960
because the thing is is that that's
when people die when it gets cold,

617
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.639
exactly right. Even in the country
of India, there are more cold

618
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:44.719
related deaths than heat related deaths.
Okay, so this is I read,

619
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:50.960
you know Willi cather my Antonia,
classic work of literature set in the prairies

620
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.719
of Nebraska back in the late eighteen
hundreds. She's got a chilling quote there

621
00:47:53.760 --> 00:48:00.239
about about how cold is our greatest
enemy. Yes, cold as much were

622
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.719
We're designed to live in hot places. If you think of anything, you

623
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:06.679
know, because when you look,
when you look at the history of the

624
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.639
world, when the expansion took place, it took it expanded when heat was

625
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:14.960
there, when it was evident,
right when there was a clear difference between

626
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.760
heat and gold, when it when
it constricted, was during the cold periods.

627
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:23.239
But I guess you have to ignore
were very bad for us. Yeah,

628
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.400
yeah, I'm with you on that. So what I you know,

629
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.480
I do in the chapter is trying
to bring together a lot of things have

630
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:32.400
been published in the Independent Review,
the Journal that I added, and you

631
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:37.199
know, other things I've read from
many economists. I think these are things

632
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:42.360
that if you weren't worrying about the
special interest, you would say, yeah,

633
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:44.840
we should do that policy this,
you know, this whole range of

634
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:50.519
policies that will just make life especially
better off for the poorest people. The

635
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:54.480
poorest people. Yeah, exactly,
what a huge difference. I mean,

636
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:59.760
that's it, and that is an
excellent chapter, and and God bless you

637
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:04.239
for taking that on. But I
thought in the which you know, the

638
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.599
manner in which you you did,
uh, I thought you were pretty even

639
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:12.519
handed about it. Because on the
title you might think, whoa, we're

640
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:15.119
gonna, you know, really be
dealing with something here. There's going to

641
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:21.199
be an imbalance. But I thought
that you did a great job in hitting

642
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.719
these key points. That's gonna you
know, for those for those that will

643
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.840
read this and get you, I
mean, you want to get your hand

644
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:29.760
on this book. I mean,
this is going to go a long way

645
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:35.119
because we firmly believe in this in
this show that you know, knowledge is

646
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:40.679
power, and information the right information
should lead to the right action, and

647
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.880
uh, you know, and this
helps us in that direction. Robert,

648
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:47.480
I can't thank you enough for it. It's great. And I tried to

649
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:51.599
in that chapter, and I know
that all of our authors trying to this

650
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.480
to approach this question with humility.
Michael, you know I'm not on the

651
00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:02.679
exactly God, I'm certainly not.
So there are other people who know things

652
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.639
that I don't know. And so
if we can have a dialogue with those

653
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:13.599
people and have them make their best
case and not you know, dismantle their

654
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:17.159
straw man case. There's a new
expression. Let make them their steel man

655
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:21.639
case, right, the best case
that they can positive maybe even take their

656
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:24.119
case and make it better in ways
that they hadn't thought of. And then

657
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:28.280
deal with that best case, your
best case against their best case. I

658
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:32.400
think will will you know, lead
to constructive outcomes. I always believe in

659
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:40.880
the accumulated the accumulated mindset here and
coming together in debating an issue that you

660
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:46.360
know, with many counselors of victory
is assured. And you know that with

661
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:52.920
that shared ambition that we would reach
for the stars and expand our knowledge and

662
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:57.880
awareness for the greater good of all
concerned. Robert rifles again, thank you

663
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:05.239
and the twenty one academics who participated
in social justice. Just the book available

664
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.519
at all the usual places, right, And how can people be in touch

665
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:14.000
with you? Well, I encourage
everybody to go to the website of the

666
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:19.800
Independent Institute and so it's just Independent
dot org and you'll see the journal that

667
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:22.440
publish and see all the different publications. We've got all sorts of interesting pro

668
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:29.920
projects and videos to see. And
if any of your watchers want to contact

669
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:32.079
me, just I'm out there on
the web. Google my name and you'll

670
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:36.639
find my email address at my website
and send me an email. I'd be

671
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.239
happy to talk with you. Look
at if the irs can find him,

672
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:42.559
you can find him. So it's
not that bad, okay when we know

673
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.960
that, Robert, thank you so
much for being with us your blessing.

674
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:49.840
Appreciate you. Take care. I
am very able to have me on.

675
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.039
Thank you. You got it for
more information, it'd be a part of

676
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:57.119
this mighty Martinez movement to return to
God and to save our country. Hey

677
00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.639
check it out Bill Martinez show dot
com. Hey, God bless you and

678
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.639
keep you and make his face shine
upon you. Going be blessed beyond your

679
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:05.639
Imagination. Thanks for being with US
Stakecare