I Didn’t Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.279
The topics and opinions expressed in the
following show are solely those of the hosts

2
00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:06.000
and their guests, and not those
of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are

3
00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:10.160
affiliates. We make no recommendations or
endorsements radio show programs, services, or

4
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.880
products mentioned on air or on our
web. No liability explicit or implied.

5
00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.399
She'll be extended to W four CY
Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any

6
00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.879
questions or comments should be directed to
those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

7
00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:39.960
W FOURCY Radio. Well, welcome, great to have you with us.

8
00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:45.280
I'm Bill Martinez and this is the
Bill Martinez Show. Our next guest story

9
00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:53.679
is It's just so incredible. But
I say it's incredible in one sense because

10
00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:59.320
as you will hear what an ordinary
as she says, immigrant Muslim girl went

11
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:07.200
through from Iran and how God used
her to help lead the underground church in

12
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:14.239
Iran to proclaim his gospel message before
kings. This is a true story of

13
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:19.280
persecution, abuse, unwanted divorce,
and God's amazing grace through it all.

14
00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:26.319
Her new book details her early childhood
in Iran in a Muslim family during the

15
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:33.040
Iranian Revolution and Iran's war with Iraq, her powerful conversion story, her complex

16
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:38.879
history and her husband said, the
rise of her status within the International Church

17
00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.879
as she became a voice of advocacy
for the persecuted, and her fall from

18
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:49.599
grace that with that same faith community
when she spoke the truth about her marriage.

19
00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:56.439
Welcome Nagma Abadeeni Panahi, she joins
us. Now, Nagma, welcome

20
00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.359
to the show. Good to have
you with us. Thank you for having

21
00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:06.359
me. The title of the book, I didn't survive emerging whole after deception,

22
00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:13.680
persecution and hidden abuse. Boy,
that's there's a lot there to unpack.

23
00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:20.639
But we know that God is a
redeeming God and he is the one

24
00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.960
that healed all your wounds. Right, yes, and there is a lot

25
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:30.319
to unpack there. There's a lot
of ups and downs and twists and turns,

26
00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:34.960
but you can see the hands of
God and his grace in every moment.

27
00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:38.560
Well, here you are, I
mean, you're raised in a in

28
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.599
a Muslim family. You identify yourself
as you know, your your basic ordinary

29
00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:49.639
immigrant Muslim girl. Explain to our
audience, you know what an ordinary immigrant

30
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:54.000
Muslim girl from Iran is? Like? I think I was actually just in

31
00:02:54.039 --> 00:03:00.599
the Netherlands and got to talk to
refugees and immigrants there and be able to

32
00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.319
share my faith with them. When
you come to a new country, you

33
00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:07.319
really want to try to keep your
culture, which means you want to keep

34
00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:13.240
your faith. You don't want to
become like the American culture. And a

35
00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.680
lot of the mindset in that part
of the world. You know, when

36
00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.800
I was born, it was Islamic
Revolution, Death to America, death to

37
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:24.199
Israel. That mindset is that the
American culture is evil and also it's Christian.

38
00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:30.039
So my dad really prided himself on
being Muslim. And my last name,

39
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:35.400
full last name was made in.
Last name is sherri At Panahi,

40
00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:40.360
which means protector of Islamic law.
So immigrant Muslim immigrants and those that I

41
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.719
work with, and a lot of
ways you try to keep your culture and

42
00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.400
your faith or your religion. And
soon after we came to America, me

43
00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:53.039
and my twin brother became Christians,
which was devastating for my family. Wow,

44
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:57.639
yeah, because that you know,
yeah, you can't you can't blame

45
00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:01.080
them. I mean it's like any
whether you know, whatever culture and your

46
00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:05.680
faith is part of that culture,
and so entwined any any deviancy from that,

47
00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:09.560
I know, you know, for
me, now, I was raised

48
00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:15.120
Catholic and when I you know,
I had a little bit of a break

49
00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:19.199
from the Catholic Church after I got
out of high school and then I did

50
00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:25.560
some work with the Billy Graham Evangelistic
Association. And it was a shock to

51
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.199
my parents because you know, here
I was nine of the nine kids,

52
00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:30.839
I was the one that was going
to you know, go to the priesthood,

53
00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:36.439
and you know, so I can
relate a little bit, you know,

54
00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:41.560
with with what you must have experienced
with your family. Yes, it

55
00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.439
was pretty devastating, especially coming from
Shia Islam. Our last name meant we

56
00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:51.279
were directly linked to the prophet of
Islam and my dad really it was our

57
00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:57.680
identity. So having been born and
raised in the Islamic Revolution, I had

58
00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.000
never heard of Jesus. I didn't
know what that names was. And so

59
00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:04.399
when my brother had a vision of
Jesus when we first came to America,

60
00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:10.560
that was really shook everything we believed
in. And that's when me and my

61
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:15.319
brother became followers of Jesus at the
age of nine. Well, you know,

62
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.879
that's one thing that I hear consistently
nagma that it starts with a vision.

63
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:26.519
Most Muslims that I've spoken with that
have converted, it starts with a

64
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.199
vision, you know, like what
your brother experienced. Now, did you

65
00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.920
experience a vision like that? Or
you just went off of what your brother

66
00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:40.079
had experienced. And a lot of
times I'm reminded of Saul. He had

67
00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:45.279
a vision and that vision directed him
to asking about Jesus and he was told

68
00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:49.839
who Jesus was and he got saved
or he was being was ministered to by

69
00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:54.839
a Christian. And that's what happened
to us. That's how we became acquainted

70
00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:58.399
with Jesus was through my brother's vision. I didn't have a vision. And

71
00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:04.519
also later in my when I went
back to Iran, I realized a lot

72
00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:08.360
of the Muslims I would talk to
they already had a vision of Jesus.

73
00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:11.800
They were right, the harvest was
ripe. They were ready to accept Christ

74
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:15.680
because they had already seen him in
dreams and visions. Well. And and

75
00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:21.800
that's a tough situation because you're going
back to Iran in your Muslim culture where

76
00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:30.040
it's not well received when you are
presenting another religion to Muslims. Right,

77
00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.519
yes, so I grew up Muslim. But when I went back to Iran

78
00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:39.639
in my twenties, it was the
first time I got to experience persecution as

79
00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:45.279
a Christian and really see what happens
with religious minorities in Iran, especially Christians,

80
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.959
and so yes, for the first
time I saw how dangerous it was.

81
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:54.680
I had friends that were killed,
I had friends that were arrested,

82
00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:01.000
I was arrested multiple times, myself
at times threatened to be killed if I

83
00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.639
didn't deny my faith. And so
for the first time I really got to

84
00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:11.519
experience what Christian persecution, what persecution
looked like in the Middle East, because

85
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:15.560
I hadn't really experienced that because I
had been Muslim. So when I returned,

86
00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.040
yeah, and I returned after September
eleven, about two months after September

87
00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:23.319
eleven, So there was a lot
of chaos at that time in the Middle

88
00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.199
East, and a lot of people
were a lot of Christians were being martyred,

89
00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.360
which I think that's why when I
went back end of two thousand and

90
00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:34.759
one. The revival in Iran started
in two thousand and three, so I

91
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:40.680
went right at the edge at the
beginning of what was now one of the

92
00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:46.240
fastest growing Christian countries in the world. That was your pointed time, wasn't

93
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.519
it? Yes, now looking back, right now, looking back, it

94
00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:55.959
didn't make sense when I felt really
called by God to go back after September

95
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.920
eleven is sound dumb by a lot
of people were scared of me. My

96
00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.720
parents were really afraid of me to
go back. But I could see that

97
00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:09.920
God was sending me back to have
me see with my own eyes revival in

98
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.439
Iran and actually be at the forefront
of it. We were leading one of

99
00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:20.680
the largest house church movements in Iran. Wow, that's incredible. And when

100
00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:28.680
you were talking about Christian persecution for
women, it's it's from what I understand,

101
00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:33.759
much more intense and much more severe
with persecution on women, right,

102
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.559
yes, because the woman don't already
have a lot of rights in Muslim countries.

103
00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.720
So if a woman becomes a Christian
usually have honor killings, they can

104
00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.919
they can be attacked by their husbands
or by fathers. You don't really see

105
00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:52.879
that when a man converts, you
don't really see that kind of violence against

106
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:58.559
them, but against women because they're
considered property in a lot of ways and

107
00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.519
really mistreated in Islam. And when
women become Christians, they lose everything.

108
00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.960
For example, if they're not killed, for example, that they still become

109
00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.120
a single person. Either their father
or husband throws them out. In the

110
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.000
Middle East, there's not a lot
of job options and a lot of them

111
00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:24.480
are then really kind of pushed into
the prostitution because you just got to survive.

112
00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.679
You're you're trying to make it work, and you're already treated as a

113
00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:33.919
as a less end. So you
know, where where else where else do

114
00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.519
you go? I mean, it's
it's uh, it's disheartening, but that's

115
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.000
reality, and what you're sharing with
us goes on to this very day,

116
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.679
right. Yes, that's why a
lot of the work that we do is

117
00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:52.399
we have knitting, ensuing and different
jobs that we support hundreds of Iranian Christian

118
00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.960
women so they don't have to go
to that lifestyle. And also they help

119
00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.200
other Muslim women come out of slavers, slavery and prostitution and a lot of

120
00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.039
them then get saved. So a
lot of our focus is to the women

121
00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:11.720
because they're the ones that face even
more persecution once they become Christians, and

122
00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.200
they are they really become the bottom, the worst in society in terms of

123
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.039
the poverty and status. Now help
our audience understand. I mean, you

124
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:26.759
know, you think of a place
like Iran that is Muslim, some would

125
00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:33.279
say very very religious. But then
you talk of sex trafficking. How prevalent

126
00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.799
is sex trafficking in Iran, Well, it's very prevalent. It's actually not

127
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:48.200
necessarily considered bad by the Islamic belief. As soon as the person a woman

128
00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.200
hits puberty, usually in the Middle
East and the warmer areas, it's as

129
00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:58.240
young as nine or ten years old. They are in a lot of the

130
00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:05.879
poor areas, they are given over
to traffickers or they are married to these

131
00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.480
much much older men. Right now, we also work in Afghanistan. We

132
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.879
have to be very careful what we
share because of the Taliban rule. But

133
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.080
when the Taliban took over, these
nine ten year olds were being married to

134
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:24.720
fifty plus year old men, and
so we actually see a lot of and

135
00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:28.759
then because of poverty, there's a
lot of children being given up to in

136
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:35.879
that six slavery world. But yeah, it's in Islam, it's not really

137
00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.080
they don't necessarily call it prostitution because
there's something called sireh where a man has

138
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:46.679
a wife or has maybe a few
wives and once a woman in the streets,

139
00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.399
they usually wear their hijab backwards to
show that they're prostitute, so they

140
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.679
were inside out their covering, and
so he will just say Islamic verse over

141
00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.879
them and they become his temporary wife. So in a lot of ways,

142
00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.840
there's so much prostitution, sex,
slavery, but it's kind of accepted as

143
00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:15.440
part of the Islamic practices that it's
not considered necessarily bad, like you see

144
00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.960
it here. Yeah, well,
I you know, and I appreciate you

145
00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:24.639
say. The reason I bring it
up is because we're trying to at least

146
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.759
through this show and our radio show
as well in the mornings, is to

147
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.559
you know, keep this to the
forefront. I mean, what's happening on

148
00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.279
our southern border and how many young
girls are being enslaved and sex trafficked,

149
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:43.039
you know, by way of our
southern border, and how they are compelled

150
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.559
by the cartels to do their bidding
and earn them money and these and the

151
00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:52.840
things that these girls are going through
is beyond barbaric and disgusting that you know,

152
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:58.679
these as one girl reported to me
that you know, it starts at

153
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.320
like seven eight in the morning and
ghost till noon, and they'll have as

154
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.440
many as ten sex encounters just in
that half day, and she has given

155
00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.360
a break, she'll be able to
go out and have some lunch and then

156
00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:15.919
come back in the afternoon and get
ready for another ten more connections. That's

157
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.919
pure evil. It's really the most
vulnerable that are being used and abuse and

158
00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:26.399
it's just heartbreaking. Yeah, I
agree with you. Well, we're talking

159
00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:33.519
with Aberdeena Panahi in her book I
didn't survive emerging whole after deception, persecution

160
00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:39.519
and hidden ABUSEMA help our audience understand, because you know, it drives me

161
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.399
nuts, frankly. And I've been
a student of the Middle East, and

162
00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:48.600
as much as I've read about it, I've never lived there, but I've

163
00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:52.639
paid attention, you know, I've
visited the Middle East for a short period

164
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.919
of time, and I've really tried
to study and understand and especially the dynamics

165
00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.519
in the Arab nations and the difference
between Sunni and Shia. Explain to our

166
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:07.679
audience the difference of those I like
in it. Here in the American cultures,

167
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.960
we would call it the hat Fields
and the McCoys. You know that.

168
00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.240
I think their difference comes in who
took after Mohammad when he died.

169
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:28.159
The Shias are very much about bloodline
and the Sunnis are more about what makes

170
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.000
sense the next person in power that
was leading, and so that's where their

171
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.840
main argument comes from. She is
a little bit more superstitious. But that's

172
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.039
why our family having been a bloodline
of the prophet Muhammad was such a big

173
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.519
deal in the Shia religion because they
really care about bloodline and they actually call

174
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.879
you say it, which means you're
our whole year blood and are given a

175
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:58.000
special attention. So I would say
she is probably more superstitious than Sunny Sunni.

176
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.080
Is the majority of the religious Islami
religion. Is that about eighty five?

177
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:09.360
Yes, yes, Iran is almost
all she parts of Iraq and Afghanistan.

178
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.519
So other than that, majority of
the Muslim world is Sunny, which

179
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.559
is about, like you said,
ninety percent. Right. So in the

180
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.559
end, after everything is said and
done and the return of the mahdi uh,

181
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.919
where where does that How does that
align? Is that the Shia believe

182
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.919
that they're going to be so empowered
that they're going to take over all the

183
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.639
I mean the world and the Arab
nations as well. That you know,

184
00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:37.080
the Shia would take over the Sunni. I think, so they see their

185
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:43.360
religion as being the correct one,
being the chosen one. Interesting you mentioned

186
00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.799
Mahdi, which is the prophet they're
waiting to come back, who was then

187
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.759
wasn't then is to come? Which
is an interesting take is that it's almost

188
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.840
almost like a demonic replacement of some
sort. But it's interesting. In the

189
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.000
Quran, it actually meant that when
Matthe comes back, Jesus and end times

190
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.200
Jesus will come back, right,
And it doesn't say Matthew will judge the

191
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:12.240
world. Actually says Jesus will judge
the world. So there's so many traces

192
00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:19.679
of Jesus in the Islamic book,
which is very interesting because so many times

193
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.120
I met Muslims that became Christians by
reading their own book and saying, well,

194
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.559
why does this say Jesus the spirit
of God? Why was he the

195
00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:32.879
only prophet that healed and raised the
dead and made the blind see? But

196
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.679
yeah, even with Mathe coming back, there's some confusion with Muslims because it

197
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:41.720
mentions Jesus that's coming back and also
judging the world. Well, I can't

198
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.960
help but look at what's happening in
the Middle East right now, Nagmund,

199
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.519
to be honest with you, to
see that part of the passion and the

200
00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:55.840
emotions of the Arab world right now
is because of this increasing anticipation of the

201
00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:02.279
Matti's arrival. Yes, and on
the Christian side, by comparison, there

202
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.319
is this expectation that Jesus is coming
soon and very soon. But he will

203
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.599
come as the Lord of Lord and
the king of kings. Yes, he

204
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:18.000
will judge, but he is not
going to as as the Qoran would state,

205
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.079
and I believe it is the Koran
correct me would state that Jesus would

206
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:29.559
you know, condemn Christians and elevate
the Muslims, right, Yes, that's

207
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.079
what they say. I think people
need to know. There's two types of

208
00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:38.079
writings which can be confusing when you
read the Quran. There's the Macca writings

209
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.160
and the Medina writings, and they
kind of go against each other. One

210
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:47.119
really elevates the Christians and the Jews
and is peaceful. That's when Islam was

211
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.839
the weakest is Mecca writings. And
then you have the Medina writings where Islam

212
00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.720
became very powerful and you see all
of these verses that Jesus will condemn the

213
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.519
Jews, you know, the Christians, and or find the Jews and Christians

214
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.039
wherever you know, kill them wherever
you find them. So it can be

215
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.160
confusing because a lot of Muslims can
say, oh, this is such such

216
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.200
a peaceful religion. But if you
look at the two writings, Yeah,

217
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.960
when Islam was weak, which is
a strategy of the Islamic world. When

218
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.160
you're in an environment that you're weak, you're gonna say you're my brother,

219
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.680
you're my brother, we're peaceful,
you're my sister. But look at any

220
00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:25.279
country that they have a majority,
they don't. There's no tolerance of religio,

221
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.759
for religious freedom, there's no tolerance
for anyone that thinks differently than they

222
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:34.599
do. And so that's that's a
lot of the Islamic strategy. When they

223
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:41.759
become powerful, then they completely get
rid of the opposition, which is what

224
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.240
you're seeing in every single Muslim country. Yeah. Right, they get rid

225
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.440
of the opposition to get rid of
the other book. Right, yep,

226
00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.960
they get rid of the other book. Whereas before in the Mecca writings,

227
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.079
do you see, oh the Angi
Lentora, the Bible is like God's book.

228
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.279
But then you see, oh,
it's been changed so you see confusion

229
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.839
because when they're weak, they kind
of say, oh, it's okay,

230
00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.160
where a brother is your book?
My book? And then when they get

231
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:10.519
strong, they actually in the Medina
writings, you see, no, this

232
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:15.680
is not they get rid of the
books. And unfortunately, yeah, exactly,

233
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:19.319
yeah, and unfortunately we saw what
happened recently with Israel. But Christians

234
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:26.359
are also under constant attack and uh
a threat of these Islamic governments. I

235
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.000
work in countries like Iran and Afghanistan, and they're constantly being haunted down to

236
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.119
be killed. They're one of the
poorest in those countries. Yet the Gospel

237
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.720
continues to grow. We're even seeing
more so now in Afghanistan in the last

238
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:45.799
few years, there's more and more
becoming Christians. So you know, in

239
00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:51.400
much weakness and poverty and brokenness,
there's a move of the Holy Spirit in

240
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.000
these countries that these evil governments are
trying to completely get rid of Christians.

241
00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.799
And you know the thing is mags
to your point, when you go back

242
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.440
and history, God takes advantage of
times like these. I mean when the

243
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.880
people, because the people are looking
for hope, real hope, and when

244
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.559
they find Jesus, it begins to
make sense to them. They're able,

245
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.240
you know, their eyes are open
and they realize real hope, and they

246
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:22.599
start to discern the difference between the
truth and the lie because Jesus did say

247
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.240
I am the Way, the Truth, and the life. Wow. I

248
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.880
mean you talk about three very powerful
aspects that would endear you would think most

249
00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:37.000
reasonable people to write yes, yes, And once they a lot of these

250
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.920
countries, the people have become disillusioned
with their governments. The governments are pretty

251
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:47.640
evil. And so when they've lost
all hope and now they're discovering Christ or

252
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.839
Christ is finding them, you see
this powerful witness, is this boldness for

253
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.759
the gospel that the government can't stop. You know, they're not afraid to

254
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.799
give their lives. It really reminds
me of the early exactly where so many

255
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.680
gave their lives. Can you imagine, I mean for them to be martyred,

256
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.200
I mean, you have to be
all in and so convinced to you

257
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:15.000
know, be impaled on a stake, right, And that's how we've seen

258
00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:21.240
actually even officials, Iranian officials become
Christians. Is they're really shocked why a

259
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.960
person would be willing to die for
this faith. And we've seen areas where

260
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:33.240
that bold witness has brought even officials
to christ. We actually had quite a

261
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.680
few in our in our house churches
that were just shocked by how the Christians

262
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:44.119
were not afraid to die and they
were willing to die for this Jesus that

263
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.519
they said had died and risen and
is real and is alive. And so

264
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.079
it really is a powerful witness.
When Christians are through the work of the

265
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.480
Holy Spirit, there's a boldness that
they running government can't intimidate. Well,

266
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.799
and what does that do for your
faith? Magna? You know, my

267
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.480
faith? When I went to Iran, I could still say I was still

268
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.440
a baby Christian, even though I
become a Christian at age nine. From

269
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.240
a nine to eighteen, I really
couldn't go to church, read the Bible

270
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:18.079
or anything because my parents were Muslim. College years was the four college years

271
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.119
I was in college was when I
kind of grew in my faith. I

272
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:23.839
joined Inner Varsity. So when I
went to Iran, I was still what

273
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.680
you would say, a new Christian
because that hadn't really been around Christians.

274
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:32.160
And a lot of my questions got
answered when I was there, and my

275
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.920
faith really grew, whether when I
met people where who had dreams and visions.

276
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:40.519
God really used that to show me
that whoever calls on the name of

277
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.559
God, God will reveal themselves.
So a lot of times these people were

278
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.960
in a desperate situation or their child
was dying, and they would say,

279
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.200
God help me, but Jesus would
show and a lot of them would have

280
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.640
Jesus say the same verse you just
shared. You know, I am the

281
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.759
way to truth and the life,
and so so that really and my faith

282
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:06.799
also seeing how God really does protect
his people under intense evils of different governments.

283
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.200
Now you know some people you know
were martyr, but also seeing miraculous

284
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.960
things happen for the Church to continue
to move powerfully in those nations, to

285
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:22.359
a point where Iranian government considers the
Christians the movement the number one threat to

286
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.720
their national security. This is not
a government that's easily intimidated. But to

287
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:33.319
know that broken little house churches is
threatening the foundation of the Iranian government,

288
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.079
that's what they're afraid of. How
many house churches exist today in Iran?

289
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:44.000
Do you think many? I would
say thousands, tens of thousands, just

290
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.000
when we worked when I was in
Iran the beginning of revival for the first

291
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.880
two years we were there. There
was hundreds that we started in thirty three

292
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:59.839
cities, so there was other networks. So I would say tens of thousands

293
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.079
of house churches all over Iran.
And how do you do this? I

294
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:07.839
mean, you are in a combat
zone. It's not like you can just

295
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.880
sit on a corner with a box
of Bibles and hand them out. You've

296
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:17.640
got You've got to use some discernment
and judgment and trust the Holy Spirit to

297
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:22.319
lead you so that you're safe and
the other people are safe. Yes,

298
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:27.440
moving around Bibles was tricky, getting
different kinds of Bibles, whether it's in

299
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:33.319
book format or audio. Because of
some villages they couldn't read or write,

300
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.920
they could hear the gospel. Those
were very tricky, very hard to move

301
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.079
around. Also, meeting for home
house churches, it wasn't that you could

302
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:47.480
meet every Tuesday night because the neighbors
if they found out why are why is

303
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.759
their meetings? Right? You know? I was actually just when I was

304
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.240
in the Netherlands and I got to
see the hiding place. It was like

305
00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:00.039
people that the Germans were careful to
see when people were gathering exactly. And

306
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.920
so the running government does the same. So you have to be careful to

307
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:08.119
gather at different times and different locations
so you're not found out. Well,

308
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:14.559
you mentioned going to the Netherlands and
seeing the hiding This is your first time

309
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.640
that you've been there, right,
the hiding place es first time. Tell

310
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.480
us about that experience. What was
that like for you? Wow? I

311
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:27.359
think it was so powerful, especially
at a time where Jews have been under

312
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:33.440
attack again, and of course the
government I was, the country I was

313
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:40.079
born in is behind a lot of
this. It was just really I encouraged

314
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:45.640
my faith of how the boldness of
one family, that amazing Christian family really

315
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.400
helped save so many lives and it
cost them their whole their life. It

316
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:56.519
cost Corey her father's life her Yeah, Corey Tamboon, and then I guess

317
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:03.119
her brother also got an infection that
really affected him. And so just seeing

318
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:07.319
how the Jews were hidden and by
Christians, how as Christians were called to

319
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:12.279
protect the innocent, were called to
protect the vulnerable, and how they did

320
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.480
that, they had that call and
it really cost them everything. But her

321
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:22.920
faith really amazed me, and just
to be there to experience it as an

322
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:30.160
Iranian Christian right was amazing. Well, what about the details of this house.

323
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.640
What could you tell us about it? You know, we've heard stories,

324
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.039
we've read about it in that,
but to witness it up close,

325
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:45.559
what were you able to understand and
discern in terms of how they hid the

326
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.400
people? Yeah. So one thing
that was interesting to me was that one

327
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:57.400
hundred years before Jews were killed by
Hitler, the family had started praying.

328
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:03.319
The great grandfather had felt led to
pray for Israel one hundred years before,

329
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.400
and they had a prayer meeting in
their house every single week. Their church

330
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:12.039
wouldn't pray. He had taken the
Bible and the verse where it says pray

331
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:17.599
for the peace of is real.
Yeah, yea. So the pastor was

332
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:22.440
like whatever, But so he gathered
whoever wanted from whatever church and for one

333
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:27.759
hundred years they prayed every single week. And it's interesting God was preparing them.

334
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:33.880
And even one of the corey ended
up being a watchmaker. But her

335
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.400
brother, who should have taken the
place of her, of the dad and

336
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.960
wanted to be a theologian, and
he was sent away. And he sensed

337
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:45.680
in Germany that there was animosity rising
towards the Jews, and he came back

338
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.799
and said, we got to prepare
for this it's coming, and for decades

339
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:55.839
before it happened, they were they
were preparing and for it and to really

340
00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:00.880
hear the story of how the hiding
place was built so secretly, you know.

341
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.720
Unfortunately, they were found out because
they were gathered in a living room,

342
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.720
had a meeting, and a spy, someone who had pretended they were

343
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:14.079
washing their window kind of saw in. Having been raised in Islamic Revolution,

344
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.880
a lot of times, these governments
they don't want people gathering in small groups.

345
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:22.920
They're very wondering what's happening, so
you're not even allowed to gather in

346
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:27.359
small groups. So that's initially what
triggered everything for them to be found out.

347
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:30.359
But the Jews were actually never found
out. They were still in the

348
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:34.839
hiding place. They had German soldiers
at the front of the door for days.

349
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.799
They said either they're going to starve
or they're going to come out,

350
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:44.599
and God miraculously brought them out where
it eventually Dutch soldiers replaced the German soldiers

351
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.720
after two days and helped get them
out. Wow. What a story.

352
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.799
That's yeah, that's incredible, And
there were so many miracles that saved so

353
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:56.920
many Jews, you know, during
that period of time, in the Holocaust,

354
00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:03.279
but no doubt, you know,
six million Jews were murdered during the

355
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:07.519
Holocaust, even though some people to
this day would deny it. Iranian government

356
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.519
denies it, yeah, which is
well, well, it's kind of like

357
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.240
what's going on right now in Israel. People are denying though there's video that

358
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:25.200
came from Hamas themselves showing the barbaric
murders of people, children, decapitating mothers,

359
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:29.160
grandmothers, kids, families, you
know, but they they want to

360
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.759
they want to deny it. And
it's amazing to me. The United Nations

361
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:40.480
and so many other countries and universities
here in America. The kids just don't

362
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:45.640
know better and they want to explain
it away. There's no explanation for hurting.

363
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.920
There's just no explanation for the brutality
that you can't you can't bring up

364
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.440
Palestine. It there's just when with
that level of evil, you just have

365
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.200
to step in and side with the
one that's being attacked and you have to

366
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:06.079
protect and there's just no explaining that
that amount of evil. Why, you

367
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:10.759
know what, I think it's it's
hard on a society that has moved away

368
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.880
from black and white and they live
in the gray areas. You know,

369
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.599
your truth is your truth, it's
all relative and all this and you know

370
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:26.400
kind of conversation and the elasticity of
reality which ends up getting distorted. And

371
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:32.880
so they're they're just in denial for
the foundational issue of good and evil.

372
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.480
But that's also why the Bible told
us that there will be that time when

373
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:40.480
good will be called evil and evil
will be called good. And and now

374
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:42.599
I mean, we're right, We're
right, there aren't we? Yes?

375
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.920
And a part of my story of
abuse also I just want to touch about

376
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.680
this is when there's a when there's
an oppression happening, when there's an evil

377
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.240
happening, there's no two sides to
this story. There is you know,

378
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:59.240
you can't just start stepping into the
gray of well what did that person do?

379
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.079
What you know? And that happens
also an abuse, well what did

380
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.839
she do to get raped? Or
what? You know? She must have

381
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.359
caused it, you know. So
I just want us as Christians to also

382
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.319
be careful when there's when there is
an innocent party, They're not innocent,

383
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.599
they're not going to be perfect,
they're going to have their own issues.

384
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:22.000
But when is being overpowered by an
evil and you really want to take the

385
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.759
side of that. You don't want
to step into the gray and say,

386
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.119
well, I don't know, because
then it causes in action, right,

387
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.440
I mean, that's what the enemy
wants. That's why there was in action

388
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.839
during the Holocaust. There's an action. Now you're like, well what about

389
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.839
this? What about Palestan or in
abuse? Well what about So when you

390
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.279
start saying what about and step start
stepping into the gray, then there's no

391
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.200
inaction, which they want. In
power who's inflicting the pain wants no action.

392
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.200
They're like, okay, you just
you just be confused and back off

393
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:57.200
and you move on, uh to
raise your evil head, uh, you

394
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.279
know, down the road again.
Because this is what's happened, is the

395
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:07.640
evolution of Hamas there in the Gaza
is exactly that same story that you're talking

396
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:16.160
about. And speaking of Hamas,
help us understand the Palestinians who elected Hamas

397
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.960
there and you could question, I
mean, you certainly have been around and

398
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.880
understand how elections are conducted in the
Arab world. It's not necessarily free and

399
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:30.720
fair. Says an American who just
went through a not so free and fair

400
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:34.559
election. I get that, Okay, So maybe because we saw that we

401
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:42.880
could see it's a universal issue.
What should be our understanding because I tell

402
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:47.519
you, I am I'm asking God
for wisdom on this Magmas that the Palestinians

403
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:52.480
that you know, because freedom,
just like the early Church and what we've

404
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:57.319
talked about historically amongst Christians, you
know, freedom comes at a cost.

405
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:01.160
It's not just free. Yes,
it's God given, but because we're in

406
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:06.599
a fallen world, there's a price
to be paid. Right. Yes,

407
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:13.720
it's so complicated because and that region
is so complicated because majority of the Muslim

408
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:19.119
world, which is billions of people, are very sensitive about the Palestinian situation

409
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:23.880
and they've been indoctrinated. We were
indoctrinated at school how evil Israel was and

410
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:30.440
how they were the ones oppressing Palestinians, and so you want to defend and

411
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:35.279
you know, defend them. But
it's more complicated than that. And you

412
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:40.480
have I think you have the people
of Palestine and be willing to say,

413
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:44.759
you know what, this is causing
terror, Let's get rid of them,

414
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:50.440
let's not work, let's not work
alongside them. But they're they're being funded

415
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:57.319
by so many different ways than Iran's
definitely one of the main players that I

416
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:02.400
think countries like Iran don't want it
to let it be, and they're you

417
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:07.159
know, they have to be involved
there. But I think the Palestinian people

418
00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:13.239
at some point, because of all
the things they keep continuing to go through.

419
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.119
I mean, when I was a
child, I went through war and

420
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.920
I heard the sirens. I have
Iranian Jewish friends that sent me videos.

421
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.519
It really shook me up because I
grew up in war and a child doesn't

422
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.119
know why this is happening. They
don't know about the dynamic of Israel and

423
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.000
Palestine. It's just they're not into
the politics and they shouldn't be. They

424
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.079
shouldn't have to go through those horrors. So, you know, I hope,

425
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.519
I don't know. I mean,
with the end times, we don't

426
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.880
know how every I mean, we
don't. I seem like it's going to

427
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.679
continue. The evil is going to
continue building. But but I you know,

428
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.079
you would hope that the Palestinian people
at some point would stand up to

429
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:54.159
that and say, you know what, we don't want to be used by

430
00:34:54.199 --> 00:35:00.840
these terrorist groups like Kesbulah and Hamas
and be in the middle of well,

431
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:05.679
you see some of the soldiers already, you know, getting out of there

432
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:10.360
because they're sitting there taking bullets.
They're in the midst of this evil and

433
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:16.079
the leadership of Amasa. You know, they're nice and comfortable lounging in five

434
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:22.079
star hotels, whether it's in cutter
or Turkey, and you know, like

435
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.800
this, one soldier said, go, wait, what's up with this picture?

436
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.880
You know, I'm taking bullets.
My kids are being threatened, my

437
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.119
wife and that's worry. I'm out
of here. And I hope that they

438
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.199
see that that these even with the
running government, the leaders are really not

439
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.480
being affected. They're they're the ones
that are in safe areas and wealthy and

440
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.480
doing okay. And so I think
it's the people to wake up and say,

441
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:51.679
I pray for salvation of the Palestinians. That would be amazing. Well

442
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:53.599
that's what's going to say them,
because you know what the thing it's interesting

443
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:59.079
and again you know better than I
do. But what I'm observing is the

444
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.199
Arab nations they don't even want the
Palestinians. So it's like, well,

445
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:07.599
wait a minute, what are the
I mean, are the Palestinians on the

446
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.719
pecking order? I mean they're less
than in their own way that their Arab

447
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.639
neighbors don't want anything to do with
them exactly. It would be amazing if

448
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:22.320
they become followers of Christ. I
mean, I hope and I believe in

449
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.599
the last days we will see more
of a harvest in that area, including

450
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:31.199
the Jews. But they would be
amazing that the one people, the Palestinians,

451
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:37.559
that have been used by the Muslim
world to you know, forward their

452
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.159
own agenda. Wouldn't it be amazing
if they became followers of Christ and took

453
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:47.760
that agenda out of the hands of
these power players like come on by God's

454
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.559
will and mercy. I'll tell you
we're talking with Nagma ABERDEENI panahi her book.

455
00:36:53.239 --> 00:37:00.719
I Didn't survive emerging whole after deception, persecution and hidden abuse. Nagma,

456
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.239
You've been so gracious to allow us
to get into this, and I

457
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.960
know it's been very helpful and educational
for our audience to understand some of the

458
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:12.920
nuance in the Middle East and what
you grew up with. But I want

459
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.440
to get into you know, your
story more directly in these last you know,

460
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.719
fifteen minutes or so that we have
together. You know, tell our

461
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:29.519
audience about when you talk about coming
out of deception and persecution and hidden abuse,

462
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:35.000
and of course you also experienced an
unwanted divorce that may be part of

463
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.880
that hidden abuse story you're talking about. But tell us, tell us your

464
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:45.199
story if you would. Yeah.
So me and I met my husband and

465
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:49.719
Iran. We were leading one of
the largest house search movements because of persecution.

466
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.239
We came to America. He came
through visa through me because I was

467
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:58.559
a US citizen in two thousand and
five, and as a lot of people

468
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:02.159
know the story, he went back
and was arrested. And that's when I

469
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:07.760
kind of got into the global stage
when I was advocating for him. Of

470
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.480
course, I didn't know this story
would get so big. My first interview

471
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:16.519
was with Hannity and Fox News,
and I remember that too, by the

472
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:20.400
way, I remember your first interview, so go ahead. Yeah, that

473
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.840
was my first interview. And you
never know if a story's gonna get big

474
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.960
or it's gonna get just forgotten.
So after that interview, it blew up.

475
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.880
I was probably on Fox News two
or three or four times a week

476
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.519
on different shows. Also CNN and
other event secular media start to pick it

477
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.480
up, like Huffington Post, New
York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street

478
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.360
Journal, all of them start picking
it up, and the story really got

479
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:51.960
big. And you know, God's
amazing grace through it all was that through

480
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.599
sites imprisonment, I got to share
the gospel two hundreds of millions of people.

481
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.800
Every single time I was on media
or I was at our congress at

482
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:05.280
the United Nations. Obama came to
Boise, I met with him, and

483
00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:09.679
Donald Trump called and I met with
him in New York. So just got

484
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:15.960
to meet with powerful people, and
each and every time, Jesus was the

485
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:21.480
center of those discussions. And so
at the same time, as people who've

486
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:27.880
gone through abuse know that time of
advocacy and Said's imprisonment gave me time away

487
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:32.079
from my abuser, and I started
seeing what I had been under, and

488
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:40.159
I was I kind of go through
all that happened. But eventually Say got

489
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:44.800
a smartphone inside the running in prison, and I saw that his abusive behavior

490
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.480
had not only not changed, it
had gotten worse because of the PTSD in

491
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:52.480
paranoia that he experienced in prison.
So he became a very dangerous person.

492
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.440
I wrote an email to a group
of supporters explaining I was an abused wife

493
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:06.199
and that's I had had a phone
and he was very abusive and actually dangerous

494
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:12.840
because of his paranoia and PTSD,
and that got leaked to media and the

495
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:17.480
Christian community couldn't accept that their hero
could be an abusive person before he went

496
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:21.760
to prison, but even worse when
he came out because of his PTSD in

497
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:25.519
paranoia. He came out after three
and a half years in prison, it

498
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:30.119
was supposed to be an eight year
sentence, and he filed for divorce and

499
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:36.760
he moved actually on with another woman
that had was part of our house church

500
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:40.000
movement and had been involved in our
life early on. So that was probably

501
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:45.480
the lowest, one of the lowest
points in my life. But I think

502
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:52.800
the hardest part was saying the Christian
community not understand abuse, and I think

503
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.599
we have to be careful in a
lot of ways. We are so much

504
00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:02.239
more concerned about holding up an institution
than caring for the person that's hurting exactly

505
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:06.760
well, and that's that was the
warning you said early on, is that

506
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.719
you know, instead of falling victim, you know, to a narrative,

507
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:15.199
you know, to understand, you
know what's going on. Also appreciating that

508
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:20.360
nobody's perfect. I mean, everybody's
got their issues, but you need to

509
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:23.280
be discerning enough to know the difference
between good and evil. That's what it

510
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:27.440
comes down to, right, Yes, and we have to ask Christians we

511
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:32.119
it's a one of my favorite verses
is it says mature Christians are those who

512
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:38.320
have trained their senses to discern between
good and evil. So that's maturity when

513
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:42.679
you can sense there is a dark
and there's a light, there's evil,

514
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.960
there's good, and really the enemy
wins when we put we it becomes gray

515
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.960
area, like what we were seeing
in the Middle East, and well,

516
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:53.920
we don't know there's two sides,
there's this, there's that. When it

517
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:59.480
becomes gray area, that's when the
one who is attacking, who's in control,

518
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:05.320
wins because no one's doing anything.
And so the confusion, the fog,

519
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:09.920
the gray area is actually bad because
that's what causes the enemy to win.

520
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.400
And that's what happens in a lot
of We really have to be able

521
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:19.320
to discern and kind of watch everything
play out, and really in terms of

522
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:24.039
oppression, in terms of evil happening
to a people group or an abuse,

523
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:29.320
we really have to be able to
take sides exactly. People might say,

524
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.599
well, look at your husband was
in jail for three and a half years.

525
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.119
How could he abuse you, Well, he was abusive. There was

526
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:39.039
physical abuse before he went, but
yes, from the phone. He had

527
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:44.440
a phone, a smartphone. A
year before he got released. He was

528
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.719
threatening to come after me. He
was calling me names. There's verbal abuse.

529
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:54.280
He was coming threatening that I was
stealing his fame, which I would

530
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:59.000
say, well, if you're worried
that I'm He saw I had met with

531
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.320
Obama, I was with Trump.
Trump brought up sites case all the time

532
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.440
when he was running for president.
I saved all the interviews, like he

533
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:08.760
would say that Pastor and Iran,
he would talk about it a lot.

534
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.320
So he saw a lot of attention, but he didn't want it on me

535
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.960
because abusers don't. They want to
be the ones in power. And so

536
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:20.039
I would say, you know,
I don't have to travel if it's bothering

537
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.119
you, I don't have to talk. And he would say, no,

538
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:27.400
you need to keep my story alive. So the abuse continued in a sense

539
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.360
that he didn't physically beat me,
but there was a lot of threats to

540
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.800
come out and come after me and
come get my kids and take him back

541
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.400
to the Middle East. And there
was a lot of verbal abuse. There

542
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:42.480
was a lot of name calling,
which was shocking to me. And this

543
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:47.320
is tough because you're talking a Christian
man here and someone who I had literally

544
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:51.639
laid down my life to get out
of prison. It was still confusing to

545
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:57.719
me. So yes, it was
very confusing to me. I drew boundaries.

546
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:02.079
I was advised by pretty wise people
to draw boundaries, and he didn't

547
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:05.960
like that. So as soon as
I draw drew boundaries and I said,

548
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:08.360
you know, I'm here for you. I don't want to end our marriage,

549
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:13.360
but unless you get help on your
abuse and also adultery, pornography,

550
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.519
and he had committed adultery, he
had confessed it to Billy or Franklin Graham.

551
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.400
I said, if you get help
on these, i'm back, We're

552
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.840
back in our marriage. But he
did not like boundaries, and he filed

553
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:29.840
for divorce, which was very heartbreaking
for me. So well, maybe you

554
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.559
know out of it. I know
it's hard, but you know God's ways

555
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:38.480
are not our ways. And you
know, I'm sure you may look back

556
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:43.480
on it though you didn't want the
divorce. And I know most people really,

557
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.159
after everything is said and done,
they could be classified as unwanted divorces.

558
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:52.519
But God, God protects us,
he says, He doesn't allow us

559
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:57.039
to deal with more than we can
handle, and with each temptation he does

560
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:00.639
give us a way out. And
of course this is somebody just on the

561
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:06.960
outside here, you know, and
hearing your story is saying, perhaps God

562
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.840
gave you a way out. Oh
yeah, yes. And I want to

563
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.480
say this something I've thought about.
One of my best friends, Miriam Ibrahim,

564
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:17.840
was in She has a lookout.
She was in prison in Sudan.

565
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.840
She was on death row. They
were going to kill her. They found

566
00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:23.519
out she was pregnant. They were
going to kill her by hanging. They

567
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:27.280
found out she was pregnant, so
they didn't kill her. By the time

568
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:31.639
she gave birth to her daughter,
Maya, the whole world was advocating for

569
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.760
her, and she got out.
You know, she stood for her faith.

570
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.960
But her story ends. She's written
a book that where she becomes free

571
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:44.719
from the prison and everyone's happy.
My story kind of ends the same way

572
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:50.119
I became free from her prison.
And God used sides in prison and to

573
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.559
set me free, but also to
share the gospel with kings, to share

574
00:45:52.599 --> 00:46:00.719
the gospel with not millions of Muslims
were watching, and so so it's a

575
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.239
different kind of freedom. But people
get so confused because the marriage didn't get

576
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.960
saved, but I was set free, So it's the thing should be the

577
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:16.159
same celebration because I've been set free
to follow Christ and continue to minister in

578
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:21.760
the Middle East. We work in
some of that we translate and take the

579
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:28.280
Gospel and areas that has not been
taken before in different dialects. And it's

580
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:34.440
just seeing the powerful move of God
in Iran and now Afghanistan has been great.

581
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.280
And for me that's a good ending. Even though the marriage didn't survive,

582
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:40.239
like you said, God used it
for good. Well, it's why

583
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.440
I use one to the cross.
It's for us to be free from sin

584
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:50.280
and death right and we underestimate and
like you were talking about earlier maturity in

585
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:54.320
your walk as a Christian and as
a believer, is that you discern these

586
00:46:54.360 --> 00:47:00.960
differences. And this is something that
God had shown me specifically a while ago.

587
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:05.920
Uh Magma is that you know,
the highest calling that we have here

588
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:10.000
on this side of heaven is liberty. It's freedom and and you know in

589
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:15.519
our constitution, in America's Constitution,
it refers to it as being an inalienable

590
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.880
right that is given to us by
God, not by man, I mean

591
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.599
when you think about that, So, this is why liberty is so precious,

592
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.920
because it's God given. And I
look at it in the same way

593
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:36.480
for example, like when uh uh, when the brother Esau, when he

594
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:43.360
uh disrespected his birthright, and I
believe that liberty is part of our birthright

595
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.559
and it should be respected. And
and look what, look how God,

596
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:52.119
what God said about Esau when he
disrespected He just took it so casually and

597
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.880
disrespected it. He said that he
loved one brother, but he hated the

598
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.159
other. And and because of that, and somehow I think there's some correlation

599
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:06.280
and relevance you know, to that. So gosh, you know your story

600
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:12.320
in helping us again and reminding us
that liberty that comes from God, we

601
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.639
need to cherish that and protect it. Right. Yeah, One thing that

602
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:21.159
I think I love that you mentioned
the first. I think it's in hebrewsess

603
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.599
as maturity comes from discerning good and
evil. But it also says liberty comes

604
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:29.320
from you shall know the truth,
and the truth shall set you free.

605
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:34.679
So liberty comes from being grounded in
truth exactly. You have to know what's

606
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:39.199
true and what's not. Well,
Nag, we got about a minute left

607
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:44.280
I'm going to let you, you
know, summarize the you know, your

608
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:47.199
book and what we've been talking about. I didn't survive, emerging whole after

609
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.519
deception, persecution and hidden abuse,
and remind people you know, how they

610
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:59.400
can get your book and how they
can be aware of your ministry that continues

611
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:02.159
to this day. Yeah, I
think I didn't survive. Hopefully we'll be

612
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:07.239
an encouragement through all who walk through
life ups and downs and twists and turns,

613
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:12.000
and it talks about ministry that continues. But it also has a message

614
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:17.440
for the church here that's sleeping.
I would say, having experienced revival,

615
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.079
it's easy to see when the underground
church comes to the United States, they're

616
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:27.199
actually shocked by the state of the
church here. So I hope it's also

617
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.360
a message for the church here,
and I hope that we can listen and

618
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:37.400
we can see God move in our
nation. Well, Nagma, and again,

619
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:42.440
is there a website or a contact
for Yeah. Yeah, my book

620
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:45.599
is on Amazon, on Barnes and
Nobles, on the all the websites.

621
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:50.800
Also, I have a website Nagmepanahi
dot com that talks about the work in

622
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:54.280
the Middle East that I work with
back to Jerusalem is an amazing ministry.

623
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:59.239
We work together at the to get
the gospel to the ten forty window.

624
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.079
Well, Magma Panini, I cannot
thank you enough. God, bless you.

625
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:05.920
Thank you so much for being with
us and sharing your story. Thank

626
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:12.079
you God, bless God, bless
Abadeenia Panini Panahi, I should say forgive

627
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:15.639
me has been our guest, and
what a special lady, What an experience

628
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:20.800
that should be an encouragement to us. All that, no matter how bleak

629
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.719
it may seem, is that God
is with us no matter what, because

630
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.760
He's not only in the saving business, he's in the redeeming business as well.

631
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:34.320
And again you'll be encouraged by the
story and greatly blessed. I didn't

632
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:40.559
survive emerging hole after deception, persecution
and hidden abuse. ABERDEENI Panahi has been

633
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:45.840
our guest and we so appreciate that. And thank you for being our guest

634
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:49.360
as well, for sharing a part
of your day with us. And I

635
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:54.039
thank you you can be interested enough
and motivated enough to continue to fight for

636
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:59.639
this great American idea to save our
country, save our families and turn to

637
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.960
God. Thank you so much.
May God bless you and keep you,

638
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:07.880
may his face shine upon you,
and may he be gracious unto you and

639
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.559
give you his peace. Thanks again
for being with us. Take care,