The Adversity of Diversity-Moving Beyond Divisiveness Towards Healing In A Post-Affirmative Action W

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W FORCY Radio. Well, good
afternoon, Welcome to the Bill Martina's Show.

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Great to have you with us.
We're gonna my good friend doctor Carol

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Schwain up with us in just a
few moments. But just a little bit

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of background from her new book,
The Adversity of Diversity. Ever since the

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US Supreme Court announced its landmark six
three decision to take race out of the

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equation for college and university admissions,
it did more than just bring affirmative action

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in higher education to a screeching halt. It also fired a warning shot across

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the bow of businesses and governmental agencies
across America. The days for workplace diversity,

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equity and inclusion d EI. But
as you know, we call it

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d IE because d EI that's what
it amounts to. It's a killer.

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It's programs that violate the equal protection
clause of the fourteenth Amendment. As I

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mentioned to you, doctor Carol Swain
joins us her incredible background. You go

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back and you consider, I mean, what a success story that is,

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again, one of those success stories
that I think can only happen in America.

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I mean, from a high school
drop out, a teenage mother.

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The former university professor of political science
and professor of law at Vanderbilt University Law

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School is with us right now,
doctor Carol Swain. Carol, welcome to

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the show. Good to have you
with us. Thank you so much.

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Well, congratulations on this book.
Why did you and your co author said

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the timeliness was perfect for the adversity
of diversity? Well, Bill, we

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have talked many times, and I
have grappled with these issues for years.

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In fact, about five years ago
I started a book which I didn't complete,

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on whide diversity training is all wrong? Because back then I saw that

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diversity training programs were not effective.
They accomplished the opposite of what they purported

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to do, and they created a
lot of divisiveness. And so you ask

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about the timing of this book,
It was ninety percent completed for the Supreme

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Court decision, and the ten percent
was waiting on the decision because I had

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anticipated that the Court had to strike
down race based affrimative action because the DI

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and CRT programs had become so aggressively
discriminatory against white's and Asians, and so

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there was always that chance that they
wouldn't do the right thing. And then

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if they had not struck it down, the fallback plan was the title was

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going to be how they missed this
opportunity to bring about, you know,

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a better America. So you know, that's a little bit. I anticipated

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the fall of affrimative action only if
our constitution and our civil rights law as

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meant anything, and the Supreme Court
stood up to the occasion, Doctor Swayne,

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What is the most important thing that
readers should take away from your book?

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I think that for people out there
first I'm going to speak to whites

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and Asians, is that you are
protected by the equal Protection Clause of the

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of the Fourteenth Amendment and our US
civil rights laws. And this also applies

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to men in the workplace. If
you are a male, if you are

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a Christian, you're protected because the
Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four and

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its extensions prohibits discrimination on the basis
of race, color, sex, national

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origin, and religion. And we
find today that men are targeted, Heterosexuals

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are targeted, Christians are targeted,
and whites and Caucasians are targeted because of

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the color of their skin or other
immutable characteristics. And so that is totally

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contrary to who we are as Americans. In the nineteen sixties, we decided

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to be color blind under the law. We passed three major Civil Rights Act

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acts, the nineteen sixty four Civil
Rights Act, the nineteen sixty five Voting

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Rights Act, and the nineteen sixty
eight Open Housing Act, and we became

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color blind under the law. The
prejudices that have remained have come from individual

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hearts, and so I want people
out there to know that one is that

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you're protected by laws. You need
to know how to document discrimination when it

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occurs in the workplace, and they're
off whites who are successfully suing their workplaces

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and also men. I read recently
about a male employee that was able to

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successfully sue because his boss was female. Told him, he needed to man

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up. So that's one thing.
But Gannet that owns newspapers you know,

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across the country, they were recently
by four white employees. They were let

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go in twenty twenty because the company
wanted to be more diverse. And so

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you can't be doing these things in
this country. So that's part of what

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I want people to know. It
really puts the power back in their hands.

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But again, you know, ignorance
is no excuse. This book will

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enlighten you to realize and re encourage
you to realize that, yes, that's

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right, we're still a constitutional republic
because all this other stuff that's getting in

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the way, Carol, is social
engineering, isn't it. And every time

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you put social engineering into the equation, it is unfair. It is manipulative,

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and it's destructive to the human spirit
the way I observe it. Yes,

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and Bill, there's something ass like, maybe I'm the elephant in the

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room now, because people will say, especially those on the left, where

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you used affirmative affirmative action, you
know, to rise up and you clamed

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that ladder, and now you pulling
it up behind you. And I can

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tell you that I benefited from the
nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act that ended

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discrimination. I benefited from outreach and
recruitment that came for people like me.

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At that time, they were looking
for talented minorities. So when I started

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college, I went to a community
college and I met the dean's list there

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a couple of times, did not
intend to continue my education. And when

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I decided to continue my education,
I met the decision that I was going

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to be an honor student. And
what did I do? I purchased and

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checked out books in the library on
how to make aids in college, how

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to take SA exams, how to
take objective tests. I applied the principles

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and I graduated from my four year
college, Ronal College, predominantly white Lutheran,

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a school in the South Magnacoon laud
while working full time nights and weekends

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at the community college library. And
then I went on to graduate schools,

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graduate schools that I got into based
on my scores, and eventually I was

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steered into academia. I became a
professor at Princeton. I earned early ten

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year. My first book won three
national prizes, including the highest prize the

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political scientists can win, and I've
been cited by the US Supreme Court.

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So you know, you can say
that all of my accomplishments were because of

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affirmative action. You can say that
because I'm black, and no black person

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or woman or any minority can really
defend themselves because affirmative action has been around,

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you know, since the nineteen longer
than nineteen seventies. It's been around

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in the form of executive orders since
nineteen sixties, and it's used to dismiss

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the accomplishments of racial nethic minorities who
are high achieving. Well, Carol,

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when you consider the merit and all
the hard work you put into it,

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I imagine anybody that dare throw out
the affirmative action card, it just has

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to just go away. I dealt
a little bit with I don't know if

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I told you my story or not, but believe it or not, in

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broadcasting in Los Angeles in nineteen seventy
two, when I exited the Marine Corps,

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I was the first Hispanic with a
Hispanic name on a contemporary radio station

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in Los Angeles. This nineteen seventy
two, Carol, and I know that

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a little bit of the opportunity and
the door that opened for me was a

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result of the FCC, you know, putting pressure on licensees of radio station

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to hire minorities. But you know, it opened the door, gave me

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an opportunity, and I went and
encouraged other people that they needed to follow

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suit. And I remember giving several
speeches to minority colleges and to the kids

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there and saying, look at the
door is open for you. You had

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not even thought about entering broadcasting.
But the fact the matter is is okay.

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You know, I'm a bit of
a pioneer. Maybe I opened the

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door, but let's go in.
And now today Los Angeles has dozens of

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Hispanics involved in local media there right. And here's the thing again, we

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benefited from non discrimination. Discrimination was
taken place before that. We benefited from

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non discrimination, equal opportunity and recruitment
because after the law passed prohibiting discrimination based

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on immutable characteristics, then well meaning
people Caucasians really thought alland minorities, and

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at that time you had an equal
opportunity to succeed or fail. And Bill,

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I know that you know many people
along the way who tried to do

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what you did. They failed.
And I know people too that failed out

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and a lot of times. It
had to do with later when affirmative action

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became so aggressive, it allowed people
to get into places where they were truly,

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truly not qualified and they could not
make it. Many of those people

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I believe could have been successful had
they followed my path. I started at

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a community college. Anyone can go
to a community college, and I was

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able to prove myself there. At
that community college. I had been a

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high school dropout. I did not
have a high school record. I just

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had an opportunity to prove myself at
the community college, and then I used

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my performance there to get into a
four year school, graduated kum laud.

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I've been inducted in Phi Beta Kappa, and so I've benefited from the open

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doors, but also people that pushed
me and encouraged me. Because I never,

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ever in my wildest dreams, ever
imagine or wanted to be a university

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professor. When I started out,
I just wanted a well paying job.

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I had children. I needed a
good job. That's what I was looking

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for exactly. We're talking to doctor
Carol Swain her book The Adversity of Diversity.

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Carol, your book suggests real unity
training as a solution to move beyond

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the divisiveness toward healing in a post
affirmative action world. Break that down for

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our audience. I can tell you
that in the concluding chapter of my book,

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I talk about an idea that was
birthed in twenty twenty, right after

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the right, during the riots riots
that followed George Floyd's death, and it's

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one of those things that I would
consider spiritual. I was just grappling with

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all the turmoil taking place in the
country and just watching these corporations pour billions

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of dollars into Black Lives Matter and
into sensitivity training that I knew would not

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solve the problem because they're based on
conflict theory, a conflict model. And

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in the middle of the night or
somewhere was sometime while I was tossing and

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turning, I heard very clearly unity
Unity Training. And so the next morning

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I jumped up and purchased the domain
name Unity Training Solutions, and a few

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months later I started a company that
was based on E Pluribus Unum, a

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national motto out of many one.
And I believe that people need to know

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a civil rights laws because we have
civil rights protections. There's nothing wrong with

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that. If diversity training was about
biding people information they needed, but the

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laws of the land, it would
be less controversial. But when it singles

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out people because of their race,
or their sex, or their religion,

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and it hits workers and employees one
against another, then it crosses the line.

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And so pretty much what the book
argues and what I try to do

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is provide an alternative that's consistent with
the eplubus on them and getting our companies

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and our organizations back on mission.
They have strayed. They're doing social engineering

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our US military. It's lost this
way. The US military has forgotten what

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the military was established to do.
They're not focusing on protecting us from foreign

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and domestic enemies. They're focused on, you know, their drag shows and

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making sure they have transgenderators in the
military exactly. It's crazy, and so

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a unity training. I think that
companies and we see some of this already

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happening because they're quietly getting rid of
that DA programs that they need to get

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back to the missions. They don't
need to be celebrating, you know,

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special days unless it's a major holiday. And I believe that workers are ready

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for this, and what has happened
with diversity equity and inclusion. It's not

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about bringing people into the workforce and
integrating them. It's about affinity groups and

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people maintaining their separate identities and equity. It's not equal opportunities, it's equal

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outcomes. And Bill and I doing
our doing our day. I'm about it

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dating making you older than well,
I'm right with you. We're contemporaries,

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Okay, equal opportunity. You got
a chance to prove yourself and you worked

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very hard if you were going to
be successful. Equity is about equal outcomes.

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And you have these crazy situations where
the man in New York City which

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was a teacher. No, he
was applying to take the cheach his exam.

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He failed at numerous times. They
wouldn't even give a cant of how

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many times he failed the tests.
He sued for racial discrimination and one two

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million dollars, and so people like
him who were not smart enough to pass

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the teacher's exam when many racial minorities
have done so, he was rewarded for

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his ignorance. And you see,
you know, just such a blatant discrimination

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and the reward of mediocrity. Yeah, exactly. Well, sadly, this

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is where our culture is today.
Carol, because of these social engineers and

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these people that are fighting for equity
based based on theory, which is amazing

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to me, because we have enough
human history to demonstrate a time and again

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that that doesn't work. But for
some reason, that spirit of the theoretical

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has entered into our culture with madness, and we have thrown the baby out

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with the bathwater, so to speak, and we're trying to reinvent the wheel.

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And you go, why are we
doing that when we know the empirical

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evidence and by past experience and by
other countries who have tried to do the

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same thing that it doesn't work.
It is a failed experiment, and what

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are you doing? You know?
In some of these cases, Carol,

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I mean, these are generational issues. You get kids that are raised with

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this kind of full theoretical humbo jumbo
and uh, you know, and they're

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disturbed the rest of their careers thinking
are it's not fair? Right? I

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mean, I think that's why we
have so many flash mobs, and unfortunately

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many of them are racial and antic
minorities that are going into stores and helping

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themselves to the merchandise because they've been
told that capitalism is evil and they are

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old reparations and that other people's stuff
belong to them. That's where we are

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today as a as a society,
and getting back to unity training. It

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became very clear to me over the
past two years that the training it can

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be for regular employees, it has
to be the owners and the CEOs,

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because they're the only one who can
change the culture. The HR departments are

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led by people who are indoctrinated in
wokeness and they live in fear, and

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a lot of what's taking place is
taken place because there are people who are

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so fearful of the left. The
left is able to bully people to the

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point that they get what they want, not because they deserve it, not

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because it works, but out of
fear. Yes, well, unity is

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our strength e pluribus unum, as
you cited, Carol, we're stronger when

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we're unified. And think about that, everybody associating. You're exactly right.

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The drum beat for unity has to
start at the top with the visionary who

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continues to cast at and remind the
employees the team that this is the mission,

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this is where they're going. And
if somebody wants to go their own

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way and continue to disturb the unity
force in the organization, then they need

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to be reclassified. They do and
build. I've spoken with CEOs and owners

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the companies who have shared that they
are a free to speak to their own

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employees because they've allowed these affinity groups
to be set up, and they don't

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want to be sued, but they
will be sued. They're going to be

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sued because they're discriminating, usually against
whites, they're discriminating against men, they're

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discriminating against heterosexuals. And often the
people that are doing the discriminating they either

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don't care or they don't know the
law. So they will openly tell a

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white person or a heterosexual why they're
discriminating. They will say, we're letting

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you go because we need to bring
in you know, in Asia, or

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we need to bring in a black, or we need to bring in some

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other group. The very they give
you all the information you need to follow

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suit and so listening to take notes, right Carol, and document where you

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were, who was there, and
get them to repeat it so you can

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record it. Discrimination is becoming very
coarsely for corporations. And going back to

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the purpose of my book, I
want to see better workplaces and a more

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effective society and our military and our
institutions to get back on track. And

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they have lost their way. And
it's because they have started discriminating, you

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know, against persons who are protected, and they have created all these tears.

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Then we see, you know,
the selective firing of people, hiring

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of people, and then we go
to the legal world, I would say,

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prosecutions selected. Well. You know
what disturbs me most about all this,

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Carol, is is the human being, your fellow human being that's on

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this journey of life. I don't
know that. You know, people wake

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up every day and think, I'm
just going to be the worst person I

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want to be. I want to
be unaccomplished. I don't want to succeed

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in life. I just want to
be mediocre. I just that is antithical

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to me. And you know,
and I want the best for everyone because

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it's again, it's all, it's
that rising tide that raises all boats,

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right. I mean, if our
neighbor, if his boat is rising,

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our boat's gonna right. We'll all
rise together. And here we are blessed

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in this United States of America with
a constitution that gives us an infrastructure in

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which to do that and when we
honor that, we can be the best

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we can be. I mean,
here you are. You look back in

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your life and the way it started
out, and you said, I just

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want to provide from my kids and
you know work and you know have food

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on the table. And look what
God has done for you, what you've

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done for yourself, and in the
process, how you've mentored other people and

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deposited valuable information and wisdom into their
lives. And they're all the difference because

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doctor Carol Swain Will before that,
Carol swayed, the high school dropout decided

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to do something different. And you
know, Bill, when I was a

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teenager, I thought you had to
be rich to go to college. I

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didn't know about scholarships, and there
was so much information that I didn't have.

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And so that outreach made all the
difference in the world because I learned

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about opportunities that someone from my background
would never have heard of. I believe

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that most Americans are in favor of
outreach, you know, to persons who

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are talented, but also outreach to
those failing schools. And what the left

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is done is by forcing the hiring
of people who are totally incompetent who have

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not applied themselves, who have barely
squeaked by in school, or they've been

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passed along, they doom you know, people that are trapped in inner city

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schools, they doom them to failure
because the teachers are incompetent. You have

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principles who are incompetent. You have
people in the military. The Biden administration

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is full of of identity group representatives
who are incompetent to do their jobs,

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and that helps no one. In
fact, it hurts the groups that they

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come from, whether it's LGBT or
black or Hispanic. When you have a

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spokesperson of an agency and they're totally
incapable of doing their jobs, in fact,

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they don't even know what the purpose
of the agency was or is,

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then that hurts our nation, but
it also hurts the group that they're representing.

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Exactly. It has been purposeful,
Carol, and my humble opinion,

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we have gone from a nation that
was regarded as being exceptional to a nation

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that has accepted and accommodated mediocrity.
You know, go ahead, no,

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I mean, I agree one hundred
percent. And it saddens me what we

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have done to our young people.
And it doesn't just impact racial and ethnic

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minorities, because the spillover effects has
greatly damaged white youth, and you find

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them being ashamed, totally ashamed of
their race, the race that they were

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born into. And that's one of
the reasons why I've been so outspoken about

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CRT, critical race theory and diversity, equity and inclusion is because it's resulted

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in the shaming and bullying of young
people. Sometimes send K through twelve,

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but our college students, for the
most part, they are targeted because of

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the color of their skin. Our
nation was not set up, you know,

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to encourage that. That is something
that we rose above. And yet

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the people who say that it's wrong
to discriminate against racial and ethnic minorities don't

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have any problem discriminating against whites or
Asians when they want to serve their own

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purposes and needs. Well. In
our founding fathers envisioned an aspiration. They

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gave us an aspirational goal, and
that aspiration was to, you know,

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continue to progress toward a more perfect
union. Right, and somehow we've made

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a wrong turn, Carol, Oh, Yes, we made a wrong a

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wrong turn when we let the Marxists
that led Nazi Germany into the country and

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they set up camp at Columbia University, and their ideas fanned out across the

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country. And slowly but surely they
have been and feel traded and taken over

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so many of our institutions. And
that's what we are reaping. We are

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reaping the fruits of the Marxism that
has integrated itself into the fabric of American

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life. Yeah, it is it
is disheartening. But the fact of the

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matter is, Carolina, you feel
the same way. I mean, we've

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got, you know, three hundred
forty million Americans. I have a lot

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of faith in the people, and
they're starting I see a you know,

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a kind of a return to first
principles. This is one thing that we

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talk about on our show, whether
it's a radio show or the TV show,

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is that we must return to first
principles, you know, in organizations

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when an organization has lost its way. This is where it is key when

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a leader comes in and says,
wait a minute, let's go back and

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figure out when when did the downturn
occur, What principles did we get off

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of, What new ideas in the
name of progress did we embrace that actually

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ended up hurting us? And that
is a unique form of leadership. It

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is a needed leadership that I say
is especially needed, you know, for

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a time such as this in this
country. I agree. And all the

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companies and organizations have to do is
go to your file cabinet, pull out

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your old mission statement, read it, send it a ram to your employees,

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and decide that the mission of the
organization, what it was founded to

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do. That that should be what
everyone works together as a team to advance.

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And a lot of the d ei
CRT nonsense is coming to the workplace.

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It has been totally antithetical to the
whole idea of what work and business

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should be about. And it's important
to get back to the business of business,

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whatever your business was set up to
do, or government entities or organizations,

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get back to the original purpose.
Well exactly because in business they do

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that all the time. You're measured
by your bottom line. But all of

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a sudden, you know these companies
like you know, Disney and Target and

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bud Wiser, and look at these
examples, these glaring examples. They have

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lost billions of dollars, Carol,
and this is insane that they continue to

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do this. And you think,
you go, wait minute, how much

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longer can the stockholder put up with
this? Well, I mean, you

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know, we use those as examples, but a lot of us who have

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watched Chick fil A, they have
bowed again and again and again to the

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left when they didn't have to.
And we know that that was a company

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that was built on strong, solid
Christian values. And what did they do

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a three years ago, Yeah,
they brought in a woke di person and

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since then, you know, like
I guess everyone lost the fried chicken sandwich

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because it has not hurt them as
much. But they have employees that,

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you know, they're like like Disney. You go into a Chick fil A

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now and the employees don't look so
wholesome all the time and clean cut.

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And I think that falling, you
know, the way of the world or

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the trend of the world. It's
bad for profits and stockholders and a company's

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image. You can't just rebrand your
image that you know, you excuse me,

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that was used to build your greatness. Rebrand that. And during the

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time I was in college and my
first degree was in business, I learned

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how the goal of businesses was to
maximize profits and they had a fradciary responsibility

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to stockholders. When did that got
out the window? I think it went

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out the window when colleges and universities
became so woke. They turned out students

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that were steeped in and you know, the Marxism, and they've taken it

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into the workplace and they've tried to
recreate the college campus. Yeah. Yeah,

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let's go back and live in the
realm of the theoretical as I say.

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We're talking with doctor Carol Swain.
She's the author of the new book

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The Adversity of Diversity, Moving Beyond
divisiveness towards healing in a post affirmative action

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world. I like you, Carol. My background very heavy in business as

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well. I was blessed to be
in a position to create three brand products.

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Having a brand product is hallowed.
That is a hallowed goal and achievement

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for any company because when you say
that your job and your objective is to

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maximize profits. Boy, they really
maximize when you're branded. And it's also

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a massive decline like what happened with
bud Light, when you violate in a

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sense, your birthright and your brand. I agree one hundred percent. And

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you know, look at Disney just
how they have totally lost any sense of

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what Disney used to stand for.
There's nothing wholesome about Disney any longer.

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Yeah, when you go and you
take your daughter to Disney to a girl's

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store and you're met in the doorway
with a man addressed as a woman and

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has a mustache, it's a bit
shocking, I have to say it is.

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And you know, I have a
great grandson named Hezekiah and he's eight.

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He wants to go to Disney,
and unfortunately Grandma is never going to

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take him to Disney, right,
Yeah, And that is unfortunate because when

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you and I grew up, and
I gotta tell you, I've got a

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lot of great memories of the old
days when Walt was alive, and particularly

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I grew up in southern California,
so I had an opportunity is very blessed

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to do a lot of promotions and
events there at Disney in Anaheim, California.

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And it is a shell of itself
And it really breaks my heart,

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not only for the next generation,
but even for the employees because, as

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you mentioned, Carol, the employees
are forced into a paradigm that goes against

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their conscience. But you know,
they want to you know, they need

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a job. In some aspects of
Disney, it can be a lot of

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fun. There's entertainment there, but
unfortunately, right now it comes with strings

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attached to If you might say,
yeah, I mean some people feel like

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they have to choose when it comes
to that mental health or even your soul,

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because they may ask you to do
things that violate your conscience. If

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you a divide Christian believer, you
have to draw the line sometimes, and

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it may mean that you have to
walk away from a job that has great

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benefits as well paying, but it's
asking you to do something that just totally

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runs canter to everything that you have
stood at for and believed. Well.

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In your book, The Adversary of
Diversity, you're able to get Ellen Dershowitz

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to do the forward for you.
Tell us about that, well, I

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mean I asked him and he wrote
the foreward. And you know, he's

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a Democrat, yes, but he's
always believed in civil rights and equality,

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and he's not happy with what has
happened in our country with critical race theory

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and di He rightly sees that as
a violation of the Constitution, and so

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we were fortunate to have him to
write the endorsement to write the forward,

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and then Marcia Blackburn and a number
of other people have written endorsements for the

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book. And I believe that this
book is one of the most important books

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I've written. It is co authored
with a man that I've known for some

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years. That helps me with my
books. Because this book was set published,

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it was not published with a major
press. That's its own story.

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But Mike knows all aspects of of
of of what do you call it publication

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books and so. And he's also
been a victim as a white male in

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his sixties. He used to work
for a newspaper and he was part of

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a dawn assizing and he has seen
the discrimination up fronts. So he's very

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excited and h this is our first
co authored book. But for the most

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part, these are ideas that I
have worked on all of my life.

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I have believed in, and I
think again that for people who loved my

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book Black Eye for America or my
Be the People book, this is the

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logical next book, and it's one
that you need because right now there are

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00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:06.000
people out there don't see the connection
between the Supreme Court ending race based college

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admissions and what's taking place in their
workplace. Or what's taking place in their

401
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.840
organization. There is a clear connection
because DI and CRT has become a level

402
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imposed on top of old fashioned affirmative
action. And there are people that don't

403
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:29.880
know the history of affirmative action that
it was never a law signed by passed

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00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.280
by both Houses of Congress, and
signed by the president. It was a

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00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.920
series of executive orders, and any
president could have written an executive order to

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overturn it. None of them had
had the courage to do so. But

407
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.960
we have reached a point in America's
history where we do need to move beyond

408
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:57.960
the racial divisiveness that's come out of
the DI and CRT non discrimination civil rights

409
00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:01.800
laws. All of that was needed, but we did not need what we

410
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:08.199
have today, which is something that
violates the law. You know what encourages

411
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:13.639
me about this, Carol, is
that we have a rise of common sense.

412
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:20.199
That's that's what caused this organic movement, is that you could no longer

413
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:25.000
defend D E I. C RT. It was an emotional response. There

414
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.480
was there was lack of intellect,
you know, beyond this, it couldn't

415
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:35.760
stand up any longer. And so
yeah, but let me say this,

416
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:43.480
the diversity that came immediately after affirmative
action, the diversity push that used to

417
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:50.840
consist of someone from the Affirmative Action
HR office going to a college a university

418
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:57.000
trying to recruit talented minorities. It
wasn't about going into the workplace and bullying

419
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:02.320
and shaming people. The d EI
is just closely akin to critical race theory.

420
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:07.719
And so after George Floyd's death,
it took off, like on steroids

421
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:15.440
in a way that was just terribly
I don't know what the word I want

422
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:22.639
to use is, but in a
way that just openly and blatantly violated any

423
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.199
semblance of the law, old fashioned
affirmative action. You know, people complained

424
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.639
about it. It was preferential treatment, but it only went so far.

425
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:35.920
This was over the top. Yeah. Well, and like you said,

426
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:43.599
this was manipulative. It was a
bullying measure. And as we've learned,

427
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.880
as we all learned in the sandbox
of life when our first days of school,

428
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.800
is that when you were attacked by
a bully, you had to bully

429
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.840
back. If not, they owned
you for the rest of your career,

430
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:59.639
right right, that's right. And
one of the chapters in the book,

431
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:05.920
read the title of this chapter.
It's a not so inconvenient death, the

432
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.639
martyrdom of George Floyd, and it's
about how the left, you know,

433
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:13.320
they made a martyr out of him. They celebrated, you know, the

434
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:17.880
death of George Floyd. And if
you actually look at the whole video of

435
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.239
his death, if you look at
the three autopsies, you know, the

436
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:28.920
first autopsy did not say that he
was murdered by the police officer. It

437
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:32.039
had you know, all kinds of
things was wrong with George Floyd, including

438
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:38.079
the fentanol that he had in his
system. The family had two additional autopsies,

439
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.639
and so he was not a saint, but he became a martyr for

440
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:49.800
the left because they wanted to push
through this aggressive race based agenda. Yeah,

441
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.840
you can't let a good crisis go
to waste like that, right,

442
00:38:52.199 --> 00:39:00.199
And I think they were surprised at
the traction that this scot. I mean,

443
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:04.400
and look at the money that was
poured into Black Lives Matter, and

444
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.400
we know that the organization is bankrupt
now or close to being bankrupt because the

445
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:15.199
money was spent and the millions of
dollars that Van Jones got and you know,

446
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:23.239
well I know about Van Jones,
Ebron. This is Kendy he also

447
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:30.000
has benefited tremendously. But Van Jones, you know, took the money that

448
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:36.280
Jeff Bezos gave him and he's broke. I mean, millions of dollars poured

449
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:42.840
into the coffers of organizations and individuals
that are not about any kind of racial

450
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:49.000
healing or reconciliation. These are people
that are all about conflict and divisiveness and

451
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:53.599
keeping it alive. Yeah, and
how does that uh filter down? You

452
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:57.840
know, Like you said earlier,
it's like, you know, like I

453
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.920
was talking with Bob Woodson, who
you know, uh, you know,

454
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.000
because I was talking to him about
the War on poverty. Here, we've

455
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.920
spent since nineteen sixty four, Carol, probably close to thirty trillion dollars of

456
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.239
the people's money. And I said, Bob Ward to go what happened?

457
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.840
Oh? Bill, you gotta understand
the seventy percent of that money went to

458
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:22.079
black bureaucrats administering the you know,
those moneys on the War on poverty.

459
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:23.559
As you got to be kidding,
go ahead, Yeah, a lot of

460
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:29.360
that money trickles up to the one
percent and the progressives, I mean,

461
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:34.719
why progressive would love for there to
be our reparations for blacks because they would

462
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.960
end up in their pockets. Exist. It's amazing how that consistently happens.

463
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:45.719
And this is again one of those
areas that we all need to open our

464
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:51.000
eyes to. We're talking with doctor
Carol swain or book The Adversity of Diversity.

465
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:59.719
Carol. The recent well, the
first presidential debate happened and I thought

466
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:07.119
it was interesting, after all the
discussion about abortion that the Republicans have been

467
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:14.239
involved in, that they seem to
not have a real strategy. The Democrats

468
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.440
continue to use this as a wedge. I mean, there was a reason

469
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.079
that Dobbs was reversed and it went
back to the States. This was an

470
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:28.039
organic response. Right now we have
you know, you know, a lot

471
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.679
of positive things happening. Of course, the mainstream media is not reporting on

472
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:36.280
this, but in my humble opinion, Carroll, I really like to get

473
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:42.320
your read on this because minorities,
blacks and Hispanics have been greatly affected by

474
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:46.519
Roe v. Wade. And my
issue is that this should not be a

475
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:52.079
public discussion. If someone is in
that situation that needs to consider an abortion,

476
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:59.599
that that should be between the woman, the father, and the doctor.

477
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.719
It should not be a public debate, and I believe the only reason

478
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:10.679
that it makes it a public debate
is because they're so disingenuous they won't be

479
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.519
honest enough to tell you the reason
that we're bringing out in the public is

480
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:20.960
because we need to raise funds for
planned parenthood, and we do it with

481
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.000
taxpayers money. Well, it's about
planned parenthood, but it's also about,

482
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:30.880
you know, the Democrats and their
strategy to keep people polarized. They make

483
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:36.440
it seem like abortions have been outlawed
across the country, when we know that's

484
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.199
not what happened. When Roe was
overturned. It meant that in the fifty

485
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:45.920
states, the voters get to choose, and so some states have restricted abortions.

486
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:50.840
Some of more liberal people that need
abortions can vote with their feet,

487
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:58.639
and abortions have been almost like genocide
when it comes to black and Hispanic populations

488
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:07.840
exactly. And as far as the
candidates in the Republican debate, they flounder

489
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:14.280
around because they don't have core values
and principles. If they did have core

490
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.039
values and principles, they would already
have an answer. They wouldn't even have

491
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:20.920
to think about it. Be just
like the snap of a finger. So

492
00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.480
they need to, you know,
just let us know where they stay in

493
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:31.519
and move on. But we can
also say that Fox News they knew exactly

494
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:38.679
what they wanted they ask questions that
the questions don't really benefit the American people

495
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:44.360
because it's not necessarily the issues that
we care the most about. So it's

496
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:51.440
entertainment and that is largely what happened
during the Republican debate. Yeah, well,

497
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:57.159
it touches on an issue that I
believe that we're still trying to figure

498
00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:02.039
out. Although you know, this
report states that since the Supreme Court issued

499
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:07.440
the Dobb's decision, Harold, twenty
five states half the country now have some

500
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:15.840
sort of legislation protecting the unborn.
I think that's wonderful too. I think

501
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.920
so as well, because if we're
going to get this country back on back

502
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:24.679
on track, that's the first principle
that is absolutely key. We have to

503
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:31.679
choose life. Life is critical to
the future of this democratic Republic. I

504
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:37.880
would dare say to you know,
to the world, I agree with you,

505
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:42.599
Bill. And while we're talking about
Republicans, I can say that they

506
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:47.840
are part of the problem when it
comes to DI and CRT because so many

507
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:52.800
of them either don't understand it or
they're supportive of it. And you see

508
00:44:52.800 --> 00:45:00.119
the party catering, you know,
to identity groups, and that's some and

509
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:06.159
that if they were actually following the
Republican platform that calls me to become a

510
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:13.880
Republican you know, many decades ago, then we wouldn't have all this confusion

511
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:17.039
among Republican candidates. But they are
all over the place. They don't have

512
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.519
a set of values and principles.
And when it comes to di it seems

513
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:28.639
that any black person that smiles at
them and says I'm a Black Republican,

514
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:34.840
they would tout them out front.
And these people sometimes embarrass them because they

515
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:39.639
will join the side that calls all
Republicans racists. Yeah, exactly. Well,

516
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.920
you know, to your point here, girl, is that if you

517
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:47.079
don't hold to strong values, if
you're not holding to the mission that you

518
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:54.119
mentioned before, in knowing that it
either supports unity or it takes away.

519
00:45:54.920 --> 00:46:00.239
That's the proposition. Anything that comes
into your purview, does it add or

520
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:05.880
take away from these foundational principles that
unify us for the good of all concern

521
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:09.800
If it takes one little bit away, then it has to be invalid.

522
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:15.440
And you've got to be prepared to
answer that question, otherwise you're going to

523
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.159
be part of the uniparty and you're
going to lose your way. And the

524
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:25.880
political left talks about unity, I
mean any concept that's you know, that's

525
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.960
whether it's freedom or unity. They
grab the concepts and then they change the

526
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:36.119
meaning exactly. So when they're talking
about unity, they're not talking about bringing

527
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:43.519
people together across racial, ethnic political
lines. They're talking about making people believe

528
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.920
exactly what they believe in a ridiculous
sphere. And that's unity. And you

529
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:51.559
have freedom to do what you want
as long as you want to do what

530
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.519
they tell you to do. I
mean, it's just total opposite of what

531
00:46:54.760 --> 00:47:00.000
liberty and freedom and unity are supposed
to be about. And unless we as

532
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:07.920
Americans learn and know our rights,
our constitutional rights, our civil rights laws,

533
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:13.360
and what's taken place in our government
a government, state, local and

534
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:17.199
federal, as well as our institutions, we are not going to be able

535
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:25.199
to protect anything that we have or
our children and descendants. We will not

536
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:30.079
be able to save America to the
extent that it can be saved if we

537
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:35.760
don't know our rights and be willing
to stand up for them and that's why

538
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.880
it's so important to get knowledge.
Yes, yeah, we say often,

539
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:44.960
Carol, that you must own your
own knowledge. I mean here, they're

540
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.639
listening to you and I and I
always tell our audience don't just take our

541
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.400
word for it. You know,
hopefully we are motivating and encouraging you to

542
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:57.239
do a deeper dive and own this, don't you know, pick it up

543
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.760
like a bumper sticker and spout off
a hawking point, you know, bring

544
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:07.360
something to the discussion, something of
substance that's going to add to our liberty,

545
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.159
our idea and understanding of liberty,
because that is the most powerful thing.

546
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:15.320
I believe that God has given us
liberty that I believe is our birthright,

547
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:22.440
and we're called not to abuse that
because we know how God felt when

548
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:30.519
he saw disrespected his birthright right.
That's right. Well, Carol, we've

549
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:35.599
got about a minute left here,
and again, congratulations on the book,

550
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:40.239
The Adversity of Diversity. I'm going
to let you summarize the key point and

551
00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:45.639
what you want the audience the reader
to take away from the book and also

552
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:51.920
how they can be connected to you
and get their hands on a copy of

553
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.800
your book. I want people to
know that this is a book that's easy

554
00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:00.039
to read, and it's will documented, it has resources, and this book

555
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:07.800
will equip you, your family,
you and your family to protect your civil

556
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:16.639
rights and civil liberties when it comes
to workplace discrimination, educational discrimination and discrimination

557
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:22.199
that you may encounter because of your
race, or your sex, or your

558
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:30.480
religion. And we have covered the
workplace corporations which taking place in the corporations.

559
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.280
I share about higher education. We
look at George Floyd's death and how

560
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:42.960
that fuel this industry, and we
provide a solution. And I believe that

561
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:50.159
this is one of the most important
books I've ever written, and that I

562
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:54.760
would encourage you know, people to
get a copy read it. It's in

563
00:49:54.920 --> 00:50:00.519
ebook form as well as paperback,
and started in September. It will be

564
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:06.480
an audio book form and you can
audit your books at Amazon, Barnes and

565
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:13.199
Noble, or if you live in
Nashville or Tennessee, Logos Snashville has signed

566
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:19.239
copies that you can pick up or
order online. And Logos Nashville is a

567
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:23.760
Christian bookstore. Excellent, Wow,
very cool. Doctor Carol Swayne, author

568
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:30.280
of Adversity of Diversity. Carol,
again, thank you so much for blessing

569
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:35.119
us. Thank not only with your
talents and your gifts, and certainly your

570
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:39.519
time this afternoon to have this discussion
about your new book. May all be

571
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:45.800
well with you. Thank you so
much. Take care. Doctor Carol Swayne

572
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:49.440
has been our guest. For more
information and for you to be a part

573
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:54.039
of this mighty Martinez movement to return
to God and to save our country,

574
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:58.079
go to Bill Martinez show dot com. May God bless you and keep you,

575
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:01.760
make his face shine upon you.
May He be gracious unto you and

576
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:07.000
give you peace. Go and be
blessed and share it with everyone you meet.

577
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:08.519
Thank you for being with us.
Take care,