Marilyn Monroe, JFK, Dorothy Kilgallen Murder Mysteries Resolved Per New Evidence In “Collateral Dam

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicitor implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. Well, welcome, great to have you with us. I'm Bill Martinez, and we're going to talk about probably one of the longest running conspiracies and questions that America has had, certainly in my lifetime I could say, is that people have wondered who killed JFK. Right, And here we are another anniversary we're coming upon and we're going to be talking with Mark Shaw. Mark has just been so involved for at least a decade and a half in researching what happened with Marilyn Monroe, JFK Dorothy Kilgallon murder mysteries resolved per new evidence that he cites in his latest book, Collateral damage. Mark, of course, is the best selling author of The Reporter Who Knew Too Much? And we welcome Mark Shaw to the show. Markham, good to have you with us. How are you, sir? Hey, Thank you, Bill.

1:27 Good to see you again. Well, it's been it's been a while since we talked, and you started sending me emails here and I said, OK, gotta have you on and here. It is perfect timing a November anniversary and the assassination of JFK. And so here we are. Yes. And it's interesting because I'm going to start the show with an apology, which is not something I don't think I've ever done too much, Bill, but a new evidence that I'm going to explain and the journey as to how I got there is evidence that I should have found and I did not. What we're going to talk about is certain proof that of the corruption at the Warren Commission when it investigated JFK's death in nineteen sixty three. In nineteen sixty four, we're going to be able to show that back then there were two senators, a senator Senator John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky Republican and Senator Richard Russell of Georgia Democrat who absolutely demanded a dissent in the final report of the Warren Commission, stating that they did not believe in the seller bullet theory. They did not believe it was Oswald alone, and they had an executive meeting about that that I will talk about and we will see how that particular information and what the senators demanded was never in the final report, and what a difference would it

2:58 would have made. But I missed all that when I was doing some of my investigation. This all started. I think you remember way back when I was working on a biography of this man, Melvin Belly, and you remember him. He was a flamboyant San Francisco attorney. I practiced law with him actually in the nineteen eighties. I got to know him very well. He was quite a character, married six times. He represented people like Errol Flynn and the Rolling Stones and Tammy Faye Baker. And what really perked my interest in bell I and how he might have been involved with some of the you know, some of the situations with a jfk assassination is when I learned about that. His main client at the time was Mickey Cohen. I remember him.

3:51 He was a Los Angeles gangster, throat type of guy, and you know, heavily involved with the mob. I also found out that bell I love to say that he was affiliated with the mafia. Kind of made him look like a big guy and stuff. In fact, you'll get a kick out of this. He used to go to Las Vegas and hang around with those guys, and bell I was such a character. He would first thing he did when he got to hotel was have them page Melvin Belly, Melvin Belly, Melvin Bellie, so everybody he was there, his own promoter. I love it. That's great. Yeah, So I learned about him, and because of the connection with Mickey Cohen, and then I learned, of course, what we know is that Melvin bell I was chosen or became or was supposed to become the attorney for Jack Ruby who shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

4:42 So that perked my interest and I started looking into that, and it took me back to the nineteen sixty election, which you remember or you know we're young, Yes, the election when JFK was going to lose that election. Joe Kennedy knew unless they won Illinois in West Virginia, so Joe picked up the phone and he called the Frank Sinatra, the family buddy, and Sinatra put him in touch with Samji and Conna in Chicago, Carlos Marcello in New Orleans, Santo Traficante in Florida, and all of these mafioso who got together and helped them win the election in Illinois and West Virginia. And when they did, Joe made a deal with the devil. If they helped him, then the administration would leave those gangsters alone. But the first thing that happened, and the first real break I got, was when a very credible reporter, in fact, an editor for one of the major newspapers in Nashville, I appeared on his program and he told me about the sitting at a breakfast meeting when Joe Kennedy ordered Bob JFK to appoint Bobby Kennedy attorney general. And as you remember, Bobby Kennedy hated the mafia. At the Llen hearings, he made fun of of sam g and Conna you giggle like a little girl, you know, and all of that. So when he became attorney general, the first thing he did was go after those guys. He had the i RS go after Giancana. But the one that really made a difference,

6:14 as we'll talk about, is that he deported Carlos Marcelo, the kingpin of the mafia in New Orleans, to Central America, and he almost died there. So one of the things that I will find we'll mention when we get into the Dorothy Kilgallen connection to all of this is that while I was researching her story for the reporter who Knew too Much, I found out that she was aware that what Marcello knew was that Bobby Kennedy was going to be on his bottom all the way through and for future years. What Marcella decided was, I've got to I've got to get him off my back. I want to kill the rat. But if I kill him, JFK will come after us with everything the government has. But if we eliminate silence JFK, Bobby Kennedy will be powerless. And that's exactly what happened. He never went after those guys again, he resigned his attorney general and all of that. So, of course then that all led me to Dorothy Kilgallen, and I feel like, in some ways, Bill that she found me and wanted me to tell her story. And I'll explain that a little bit later, but I got into talking about Dorothy, so I want to stop right there because that's where I got into Dorothy. And I want to tell you right now of the new evidence that I've found and what the journey is from there on.

7:34 It's amazing that I can't even believe this sometimes, but my publisher has told me that interviews and presentations I've given at various venues across the country have been watched on YouTube by more than eleven eleven million people. And what happens, and it will happen with your show today too, is that there will be somebody watching your show today who says, wait a minute, I knew about Dorothy Kilgallen. I knew about this, I know something about the JFK assassination. It's kind of called crowdsourcing where people will then get in touch with me. Well, last July a man called me and he sent an email.

8:15 He said, mister Shaw, my name is Morris Wolf, and I just watch a presentation of yours at the Allen Library near Dallas on a collateral damage and I noticed the name Dorothy Killgallen and of course my hair is percup because that's a long time ago. Oh yeah, right, he said, call me, so I called him, and mister Morris, you know, I wish I could have recorded it so we'd have him on the show today. But at that particular point, all I could do was write as fast as I could on a yellow pad. And what he told me was interesting. I think your your viewers will be most interested in this because he was an amazing, amazing man. His health not is not quite as good as it used to be, but he's sharpest to be still head I was. I was graduate. I graduated from law school at Yale. My professor suggested I go to work for Bobby Kennedy, and so they made the connection. I went in to see Bobby Kennedy. The first thing he told me about Bobby Kennedy. You know how it is when you're looking for corroboration of somebody's story, you look at the details they give you. He said. I walked into his office. There he was sitting there, his short his shirt leave rolled up like this, his no jacket, kind of sitting there like he was at the That was kind of that was kind of typical Bobby Kennedy by the way, it was, wasn't it, Yes, Yes, it was yes. So when he told me that, you know, JFK was much more formal, but Bobby was always looked like he was ready to go play golf or something. So anyway, he said, I worked for Bobby Kennedy,

9:46 And he said, you know, I'm honored to say that I helped write the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. Wow. And that was I worked on title too. That was when we decided we could use the car clause of people crossing state lines who were being prejudiced. They couldn't minorities couldn't stay at the uh Howard Johnson's or eat at one of the restaurants or whatever. So that's what we did and we got that passed. And one of the senator's help was a man named John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky. And I'm going to tell you about that in a minute, he said, sure. Before I do that, though, let me tell you how much the Kennedy's trusted me. On my bicycle, I rode from the White House to the Attorney General's office with an envelope in my hands that contained secret documents.

10:35 I got high security clearance, and I took it back and forth and on a bicycle, on a bicycle eight blocks And he said, you know why that was that was needed? And I said no. He said, because both kennedys knew that j Edgar Hoover was tapping their phones. Now, Bill, that's at the highest echelon of government, and I don't think anybody knows that it's it's disgusting in a lot of ways, but who you know, Well, this is what he was known for. He was known for those files and all the information that he would fill with it. Yeah, yeap, protect himself. That's why he lasted so long, right, good observation. So he said, okay, Well, I worked for John Sherman Cooper and by the way, by the way, Mark, I used to go to parties at his house at twenty ninth in End Street in Georgetown, and they asked me to come because I was a bachelor and there were a couple of important women who needed somebody to talk to. Jackie was there. JFK was there because JFK was a very close friend of John Sherman Cooper's. And I've been able to put in fighting for justice, photographs of JFK and his wife, John Sherman Cooper and his wife at the White House. I found out that Jackie Kennedy called Cooper like a grandfather. He was like an abe Lincoln type with all of his credibility and all that. So he said, I used to go to these dinners and guess what, mister Shaw, I sat right next to Dorothy Kilgallen. Wow. Well, I mean, what are the chances of something like that happening? And I don't know how this stuff all ends up with me anyways, But I said what he said, Yeah, I would describe her as a bright light bulb. That's his quote.

12:09 And in fact, while she was eating her Caesar salad, she was interrogating me about what Senator Cooper was doing and all that. And I said, it's just amazing. He said, well, yeah, let me let me stop right there, but I want to tell you about Senator Cooper. He was a member of the Warren Commission and he used to invite me. We drove in my SOB to the Warren Commission hearings, and uh, it was it was amazing because I sat right in the back row and one of the things I noticed right away was there weren't hardly any members there. The staff was doing the uh, the interrogation of the witnesses, and we'll come back to why why that happened. So he said that was interesting, and then on the way back, he gave me some of the most compelling information I think that's ever been released, and it's been in fighting for justice.

13:00 And then I found some more as well, he said. Senator Cooper was absolutely disgusted with the way the Warren Commission was being operated. He didn't feel like that the full story was being told. And in fact, he said, and I wrote these down as quickly as I could possibly as possible a bill. The Commission members already know about the Jack Ruby connection to organized crime, but they don't want to touch it. It's more than Oswald, but Butler, but Hoover and Chief Justice Earl Warren keep pushing the Oswald alone conclusion. Our new President, Lyndon Baines Johnson now wants to cover up and move on. The Commission members want to bury the truth under a pile of stones, and Earl Warren is acting like a Third world dictator. And then this is the one that hit me the hardest. Senator Cooper told Wolf, the inability to gather all of the evidence in certain areas, as well as a number of suspicious circumstances the duws from the record has made me preclude the conclusive to termination that Oswald and Oswald alone, without knowledge, encouragement, or assistant of any person, planned and purpitated, perpetrated the assassination alone. So I knew that when I was dealing with and that's in fighting for justice, and I knew all. I knew all of that. So what that made me do, and what I feel remorse about is that I never looked into the JF the Warren Commission like I should have. You know, when I learned about the assassination way back when, when I was just a freshman in college,

14:33 I was upset. I cried, as you'll hear that Dorothy Kilgalla did. I was so upset, like the rest of the world. Exactly when the Warren Commission came along and they told us the truth. They told us what happened, supposedly that it was Oswald alone, and I bought that like everybody else did did you really? You know? I gotta tell you, Mark, I never bought that. And I've had more debates with people over this, and I just it just never you know, and at the time, what was I I'd have been I guess what about thirteen years old, I think at the time, and so it didn't it just didn't match up. We're talking with Mark Shaw his book Collateral Damage, and he's revealing, you know, some new information, but we're getting the whole backstory as it's all coming together. And I appreciate you taking the time here, Mark and pulling this together so that we can, you know, understand. I think there's still so much more to be understood about what happened with the JFK assassination.

15:33 You and I and millions of people around the world were disappointed when President Trump, he was supposed to release all of the information regarding the JFK because it was sealed until a specific time that due date had come it expired. He released about fifty percent and something stopped him, Mark, and I don't know specifically, but something stopped him from releasing what another fifty percent. Still millions of documents remaining regarding the JFK assassination, right, yes, and you know Biden hasn't released all of it either, So it's a two way story. There. What I wanted to do to give give some context to all of this. Go back to when the JFK assassination happened. All right, and we'll talk about Dorothy Cogallen and her reaction and her investigation for eighteen months.

16:25 But you've got it. I want I want to get into the mind of Jed your Hoover because JFK is dead and I think Dorothy knew through her investigation. The Hoover said to himself, Oh, wait a minute, they're going to blame this on me. They're going to blame this on the FBI. We should have stopped this from happening. So if you buy that, and I think it makes common sense, what is he going to do. He's going into protect mode. The first thing he did was to confiscate all of the Dallas Police Department files on the assassination, and Dorothy Kigallen found that out when she inter viewed the police chief, Jess Curry. We'll talk about that. So he confiscates those and he sends them off to the Bureau in Washington, d C. Because the Dallas Police Department wanted to go ahead and investigate. He didn't want that to happen. Well, it was there.

17:14 It was there. It was their purview, wasn't it. I mean it should have been investigated by the Dallas police. Well yeah, and you're going to just be shocked at this next thing. The next thing he did was he stole JFK's body. He basically stole it at the hospital at Parkley, and before they could do any autopsy there, he shipped it off to Washington, d C. Where they did the autopsy. In fact, Cyril Weck, who would be a great guest for you, the forensic scientists, told me he has examined the autopsy and all that the worst one he's ever seen in sixty thousand of them he's seen. So they do that, so there's no autopsy. So he's now, you know, and at the same time he's shouting Oswald alone, Oswald alone to the world. He's controlling things.

18:00 He tells the Justice Department, we must convince the American people that he acted that Oswald acted alone and with no one else. So he's sealing off all the loose ends here and then and then what does he do, Well, he decides that wait a minute, I hear the Congress is going to investigate the JFK assassination. I hear that the Texas Attorney General is going to investigate, and I have proof of that happening. Well, he talks it over with his buddy LBJ and they say that we can't let that happen. And the excuse that he uses for going ahead with a federal investigation. Get this, is that the JFK assassination is not a state crime. And obviously it was, yes, but he doesn't want it investigated. There. So what do they do next? They get together, they say, well, we need a commission to look into this. Let's let's put it put together a group of people. We'll get Earl Warren, the Chief Justice Supreme Court.

18:56 That'll give it validity, and then we'll start putting people on on the commission. And he got to remember, Dorothy K. Gallen is now on the job back there, as we will talk about, right after she learned of JFK's death. So she's watching all this happen. And the one that really stuck out with me and your your viewers will really be interested because we're going to refer to this photo a couple of times. This is the Warren Commission here right here, okay, right, and so what does he do? Well the first one that stuck out for me was he appointed Alan Dulles. Well, if you know, Alan Dulles was the former CIA director who had been fired by JFK two years earlier. What in the world is he doing?

19:37 And we'll explain why he was on there, you know, investigating JFK's death. Who he who he hated. In fact, he didn't stare for him at all. Second, of course LBJ is on there, and so as the president. Then we go to Jerry Ford and there are audio tapes. You know, I do my research. There's audio tapes out there the National Archives that indicate the conversations that uh uh that uh l b J and Hoover had about how who to put on the commission. We'll put Dallas on there because we know we can control him and uh he'll protect the c i A. Let's put Jerry Ford on there. And to use one of the cliches, uh LBJ says to Hoover, well, you know he can't think and chew gum at the same time, so we know we can control him.

20:32 So then they put on a couple a couple of other people. They put on hail Bogs who they think they can represent, they think they can control from Mississippi, and then they made two mistakes. But nobody ever picked up on the two mistakes until I got all this new information through Morris Wolf and Dorothy John Sherman Cooper, the Republican from Kentucky and UH and UH Richard Russell from from UH from Georgia. So Dorothy, then you know, is knowledge of all this. She's quizz quizzical about it. She writes these columns that we'll talk about Oswald file must not close, and so on and so forth. But at the same time, the members, Cooper and Russell are starting to object to what's going on with the with the assassination investigation. In fact, I have a letter that Cooper wrote in early December to LBJ.

21:22 I want to resign from the Warren Commission. I can't. I can't feel like I'm doing my job if I'm not even invited when some of the witnesses are going to appear, like Lee Harvey, Oswald's brother, you're kidding they were eliminated from Yeah, they did. Because Hoover is figuring out he can't control Cooper and Russell, so he didn't send a letter. He decided that LBJ talked him into not doing so. But the first thing document that I found was on December fifth, nineteen sixty three. It's the United States Senate memoranda that Russell wrote war to LBJ. Something strange is happening. Warren and Cottenbach. And by the way, that's Nicholas Kottenbach, who is the acting Attorney General. They put him as on as an advisor to the Commission to Protect the Kennedys. They didn't want to know about the fixing the sixty election.

22:21 They didn't want to know about what I have proven that Bobby Kennedy was involved in Marilyn Monroe's death. So they got Kotzenbach on there and the FBI, and they are apparently and others planning to show, planning to show. Only one even considered to kill JFK. That is Lee Harvey Oswell. So that's the first indication on a document that I found. But then it gets much more, more, much worse, because you're going to hear about documents being destroyed, committee meetings not being recorded, And the first one was September eighteenth, nineteen sixty four. This document from Senator rich Russell's oral history at the University of Georgia. And here's what it says. Richard Russell forced a final executive session. Now this is six days before the final report is issued.

23:11 Bill. Now, Richard Russell forced a final executive session of the Warren Commission. His main agenda was to present his prepared dissent document and refused to sign the commission report unless the dissent was included. After presenting his concerns, Russell was joined in dissent by Senator John scher Sherman Cooper and to a lesser extent, Representative Boggs. In an oral history conducted late in his life, Senator Cooper recalled that Russell's well seasoned opinion had great influence on Cooper's own conclusion. Like Russell, Cooper was very impressed by the strong and compelling testimony of Governor Conley and thus was willing to follow Russell's lead in rejecting the single bullet theory and the Oswald alone theory. So you've got these two gentlemen who organized, especially Russell, this executive committing meeting where they talk about this dissent and what comes out of that meeting is LBJ and Hoover promising these two senators that the descent will be in there. I'm going to talk. I want to talk about the implications if it would have been in there a little bit.

24:18 Hang on one second, let me ask you real quick. So, so even Conley didn't believe ultimately with the Warren Commission's report, what they're saying in here is that the testimony by Connolly let them believe that there wasn't it didn't make sense to see single single bullet theory, single bullet theory. And also it may have gone as far as the whole Oswald alone thing. You know, Connolly was always kind of suspect of all that he wasn't you know, it didn't sound like he was all in on that single bullet theory, which has been perpetuated forever and strolled by a lot of scientific investments and investigations and everything. So here's what happens then, and this is where where it's just tragic. This meeting they believed Cooper and Russell was being recorded by a sten steniographic company hired by the Commission, and Russell found out well, Russell saw a woman in there with a machine and it looked like that she was recording everything had happened. Later on he found out that that woman was not recording that session. She was doing some work on a deposition or whatever. So there is no record of that meeting. That's the first thing at Hoover and j LBJ did to make sure there was no record of this descent that they wanted. And the second one is worse. You heard me talk about Russell saying present his prepared descent document. All right, what did Russell find out

25:52 that document disappeared? Wow? Obviously it was destroyed because they didn't want any evidence of that happening. So in early September or September eighteenth, the dissent was considered. Those two men were told it would be in there. And what Morris Wolfe told me really made a lot of sense when he told me to look at the cover. Well, look at the photograph of the Warren Commission. He said, Russell and Cooper are so upset, and you can tell in the photograph right exactly. Look here here's Senator Cooper hiding behind Senator Boggs, and if you look at his face, he's just disgusted. On the other end is Senator Russell who's looking at Chief Justine Warren like he's just could hit him in the head. So, you know, it's little things like this that Dorothy Kilgallan taught me and I learned from being a former criminal defense lawyer, that you look at because they corroborate what happened exactly. The evidence is there. It's the first time it's ever been exposed. I missed because I didn't go far enough into what Morris Wolfe told me about what happened here exactly. But now we're being able to reveal that. And let's talk about and you're already way ahead of me on this for sure, about the implications if a dissent would have been in the final report, and because what would have occurred, in my opinion, is there would have been more investigations.

27:22 They would have investigated the Mafia, the CIA, the Cubans, the Russians, the LBJ, they would hooever, all FBI, all of this, but they closed the door on it. So, in my opinion, in the future, anybody who's going to investigate the JFK assassination must start with Warren, the proof of the Warren Commission corruption, because that just changes everything. It really does well. And you touched on the motivation that part of their motivation was to keep the cover up of the fixed election of nineteen sixty. Yeah, it was, and so everybody had an agenda on that commission, you know, and Hoover with heovers, you know, a cringe every time I think his name is on the FBI building. But he was a smart man. He had them all sign a code of silence. They would not talk about the proceedings, they would not talk about the final report, and none of them did. And Marswolff told me that John Sherman Cooper, other than talking to him about it, went to his grave, and so did Russell without although Russell late in life found out about the deceptions and he gave a final interview with a radio show in Georgia just before he died of cancer, where he talked about all this, but it didn't get much play at that time. You know, the Commission had done its job so well that everybody believed it and everything well, and they were able to squash the media, you know, pretty much like they do today. I mean they've controlled it, but even more so today than then. But even you know,

28:56 to think that they could keep this covered up for so long, Mark, it really speaks of the power of you know, of the government. I mean, because the government has all these media entities under control. UH. Radio, you know, as far as the radio concern, you know, with the FCC, UH you know, could you know, tighten down the screws pretty quick and UH and then other governmental agencies to put pressure on the newspaper you know profession as well. Well. One of the one of the relevances here is what happened back then happens today. And that's why I tell people, why why do we worry about this? Well, there should have been more questions ask about the jfk assassination, just as they are today.

29:37 Don't accept anything left or right or middle or whatever it is. Do your own research, check into things. You know, you can't trust anything because you're right and landing on the media. Back then, all of the newspapers, the television, all this, they all bought the oswald A loan theory. In fact, I found where CBS UH did a three part program. People can look at it on the internet bringing in Kronkite rather who are the other big Morley Safer all their big guns and they did all these experiments on how many bullets and everything. Yeah, I remember that, yeah, exactly. And they came back with, hey, the Warm Commission got it right, Yeah they did. Yeah, and and so and it happens today, you know, every once in a while out here. And I did yesterday about a radio show in in Dallas that's coming out with a three part series this week that just basically is still Oswald alone. I mean, they haven't done their research whatsoever, but the but you have to think about this, Okay, what's happened here? Uh LBJ and Hoover have buttoned up the whole holes about anything other than the than the Oswald alone theory. They've done that. Now, by the way, he qualified as a marksman, which is barely qualifying in the Marine Corps, I know, and personally, and then and then with the twenty nine dollars you know, rifle and I don't care. I mean even though he's in even though he's in a kill zone and you know, the limousine slowed down, that's still I mean, the

31:12 chances of executing those shots, I mean, what are the odds? Mark? Yeah, that's for sure. And Dorothy we're going to talk about, well when she interviewed Jess Curry, the Dallas Police Department police chief, when she went out to investigate and everything, and in daily plause and all that, he told her the shots he sent his officers to the overpass. So there's all of that. But let's look at the media back then, because they're all buying this Oswald alone conclusion. If you believe my research, here's what I believe happened. First of all, Melvin bell I was on call. I have a witness who was right there with him when a waiter came up and said, you'll never guess what happened. Some guy named Ruby just shot Oswald, and bell I said, well, now I'll have to defend Ruby, so I think he knew about the assassination before happens. They then go ahead and Ruby kills Oswald, that shots Oswald's I mean, yeah, Ruby shot shoots Oswald. That closes Oswald's mouth. Another loose end. Now, Belli uses a psychomotor epilepsy insanity defense that nobody, including Dorothy and the jury believed because it makes Ruby look crazy. Yes, so now all of these these holes have been filled up in everything. But there's one problem out there. All the media is going along with Jaeger Hoover. But there's one problem. And her name is Dorothy Kilgallen, because I want to tell you just quickly how she got involved in the JFK assassination and why they were close.

32:44 They were close friends in New York City. He used to go to her home, and I have proof of this, playing charades. They met at different restaurants in New York City, and then he invited her to the White House, and she brought along her three year old son, Carrie, who was the love of her life. And they went to the White House and Pierre Salinger set it up for a meeting in the library and Dorothy and Carrier. There here comes the President of United States and he shakes Carry's hand, and Carrie had brought letters from his third grade class. Oh wow, JFK makes a big fuss over there, gives him a p one nine pin all of this, and you can just imagine how honored Dorothy was and how much that shures that meant to him. So in fact, the very first column after she cried about JFK's death, her friend's death, it said something like, what I remember is a tall man stooping over a little boy making a fuss over the letters he brought from his third grade class. This is the man who was killed in Dallas. So you see it was personal.

33:49 Now you have to go back with Dorothy a little bit. Not only was she the star on What's My Line, the CBS show for ten years, she had a radio show and that was watched by ten million people every Sunday night. She had a radio show listened to by a million people a day. She investigated the doctor Sam Shephard case which became the Fugitive, the Charles Lindbergh baby kidnapping case, all of the big cases at the time. So she was a very Ethley Bailey, who I practiced law with a little bit in the in the nineties, said she was She was a great She was one of the best criminal trial journalist I ever saw, one of the best, and she was. So now she's going to get involved on a personal basis she goes to Dallas. I always like to say, right now, there's so many so called experts out here out there who have written books, spoke about this. They're doing it right now in conferences some places in the country. They were not there when the JFK assassination happened if you weren't.

34:49 I wasn't. But I've been able to use Dorothy's evidence in her in her investigation because she she shared it with me in some ways and I could find it, especially like through Morris Wolf and others. Soulay. She goes to Dallas and she starts in and the first thing that she does is she goes to the Jack Ruby trial and she listens to the testimony. And you remember that he had said that he just happened by the Dallas Police Department went inside and there happened to be Oswald. Well, she found out from the testimony of a parking garage guy from across the Carousel Club that Ruby came in the day before he shout Oswald on the phone. He heard him. He heard Ruby say he would be there when Oswald would be transferred. He'd make like a reporter to get into the basement, and he would use his police friends to help him. Dorothy later wrote a column about all of the police friends that Ruby had, including those that were accompt at his Carousel club and all that exactly all that, and so right away she knows that Ruby's not telling the truth about what happened there as many people wondered about too. So she's got that information and it really concerned her. So what she does do.

36:00 She's at the Ruby trial. Her first column was about Ruby and and how he would prance across the courtroom and here was a guy who nobody ever knew about and now he was a star. I think it said Ruby Stars at last was the name of the column. Because he was an unknown, he was a mafia wanna be all this and now he's a star. So uh then then just out of the Blue Bellies co counsel Joe Tannahill and I have this information in this interview up on the Dorothy kilgallonstory dot org that people can learn more about Dorothy and all the things I'm saying. Tannahill says to Dorothy Jack Ruby would like to talk to you. There were four hundred reporters at that trial. She will be the only one who interviewed Ruby. There.

36:45 Wow, so you can see you can see her in the courtroom with her files against her chest. They meet behind and this is this is proven, behind a railing separating the spectators from the from the council tables. They talked for about eight to ten minutes, as she tells people at that time, Now you're gonna say to me, wait a minute, Mark, right now, you got to tell me and my viewers and listeners what he told her. I'll explain to you to why I can't oh, okay, okay, and you'll understand. So what does she do with that information? We don't know exactly what she said is I'll tell you, But what did she do? The first thing that Dorothy did was go to New Orleans to investigate Carlos Marcello. She was sack hard. You know, I used to with my criminal cases, with all my all my murder cases, you always look at motive. You got to look at MODI. Well, who has the greatest motive to silence JFK? And that has to be in her mind, Carlos Marcello. So she goes to New Orleans. She takes a kind of a beefy hairdresser with her to protect her because now she knows she's kind of in danger because Hoover obviously is looking over her shoulder with these Oswald Alone columns and other things she's doing. He knows she's talking to Jesse Curry. So she's starting to get scared. She takes this guy with her and they're about halfway through and she gets a phone call and she tells the hairdresser, go to the airport, get on a flight right now, go back to New York City, and don't ask me any questions. She stays a bit longer,

38:19 and we believe from what he told us, what he did an interview and other things that she had connected Oswald Ruby and Carlos Marcello. She go back, She goes back to New York City, and we can talk about Maryland's death in a little while, but she does the same thing that made the same mistake that Marylyn made. Now we're gonna have just Dad's up Mark. We've got about eleven minutes left here, so just in terms of pacting, so go ahead and let's move on. So we'll talk about Marylyn. They were blabbermouse. Maryland talked about what Bobby Kennedy and Jack Kennedy told her, going to the press with it, and that's what led to her death. Dorothy goes back. She says, I'm going to crack the JFK assassination investigation wide open, and then her pair Chester says, well, you better be careful, and she says, I'm afraid for my life and my family.

39:05 I bought a gun. If the wrong people knew what I know about the assassination would cost me my life. Wow, and Dorothy Killgallen without going into details. On November eighth, nineteen sixty five, She's found dead in her in a bedroom she never slept in, wearing her eyelashes, her hair piece and her makeup, wearing clothes she never wore to bed. There's a book on her lap upside down. Anybody with any sense will tell you that's a stage deafiny. I was going to say, yeah, can you say stage yes? So the medical examiner comes later in the afternoon with the police. But before that, the reason I can't tell you what Jack Ruby told Dorothy Kilgallen is that according to the butler and his daughter confirmed this. Just after Dorothy's body is found, the FBI raids her apartment. They come rushing into the apartment. They go up to her office on the fifth floor, and they confiscate all of her files and documents about the assassination and about a book, a manuscript that she's writing, a tell all book about the assassination.

40:07 So what happens. The medical examiner sees an empty second all bottle by her bed and believes, okay, this is another celebrity who overdosed. The conclusion they come up with ish she died of an overdose of barbituate's circumstances undetermined. Now I have since interviewed doctor Michael Boden, who you know that, on a radio show in New York, and I asked him about that because I said, doctor Boden, you signed the autopsy. He said, no, no, I didn't. I said, it's right here. I said, is that it was that the conclusion overdose of drug circumstances undetermined? And he said, well, we didn't really know how she died. It was suspect, but we didn't really you know. So that was a bunch of ball as well. Right, So what happened was that we're able in the books starting with a reporter who knew too much. I'm not going to go ahead and get into it. You don't have time, and that's okay. I can show you exactly how Dorothy Callen died. But believe me when I say, when they did a little review of her bodily fluids a couple of years later, two toxicologists found three barbituates in her system fino, barbital, tu lanol, and second all a lethal dose of barbituates. That's what killed her.

41:20 And when people say to me, why why do we need to pay attention to Dorothy Kilgallen and her research, I say, because they killed her. She couldn't write that book for Random House. Yeah. Wow, Well in these last eight minutes, let's uh, if you can mark, let's unfold the the RFK Marilyn Monroe story. Well, collateral damage, you know, wasn't supposed to happen. I was gonna quit with the reporter who knew too much. Then I found the Ruby trial transcripts and I wrote denial of Justice. Uh. Then I I was going to quit, But I never bought Marilyn Monroe, Uh, you know, committing suicide. And I found a column by Dorothy two days before Maryland died. Dorothy is on the upswing.

42:12 She's going to Holly or Maryland's on the upswing. She's going to Hollywood parties. She has a love now in her life, bigger, a bigger name than Joe DiMaggio who she was married to, the baseball player. Uh, she's got Broadway offers to UH to play in New York. She's got movie offers all this. So once I saw that, and I found out that Dorothy and Marylyn were good friends, I thought, wait a minute, that does not sound like a woman who would have been suicidal. Yeah, exactly, And that was the determination the front pages, Marilyn Monroe commits suicide. No investigation there by the way. So anyway, I started looking into that, and I decided that you know who, who did Marilyn Monroe have any love affairs with before she died? Who else could have silenced her?

42:57 Well? First I looked at JFK because they had a very short relationship. You might remember she's saying Happy Birthday to him at Madison Square Garden in that see through outfit. We'll never forget that, but that short lift. And then I thought about Bobby Kennedy, and I was able to find through my documentation at the National Archives and through witnesses who were there, that Bobby Kennedy was concerned and so was JFK. Marilyn Roe was going to talk to the media about matters of national security that JFK and Bobby had told her, including JFK's setting up the assassination of Castro, and I have a CIA document that proves that. Well, they obviously couldn't let her do that, so I thought Bobby Kennedy is the one who could have been involved here. The document also said that he had a torrid love affair with her in early nineteen sixty two, so I knew that. I proved that he was in Los Angeles the night that, the night before when Maryland died, and so I was able to piece that together in terms of Bobby Kennedy having been complicit in Marilynman's, Marilyn Monroe's death, and only one more point about that, if Bobby Kennedy would have been prosecuted for being complicit in Marilyn Monroe's death, based on all the evidence that I have and others have, there would have never been a JFK assassination because he would have had to resign as Attorney General, which

44:28 mean that, of course, there would never have been a death of Dorothy Kilgallen because she wouldn't have had to investigate a JFK assassination because there wouldn't have been one. So I've been able to link those three deaths, and I just want to say, finally, none of them got the justice they deserve. Certainly JFK did not get the thorough investigation he should have had. Maryland certainly didn't, and Dorothy didn't. And that's just sad. It really is sad. And on the sixtieth anniversary, you need to think about JFK and the positives and all the things he could have possibly done, getting US out of Vietnam, saving us from a nuclear war, with a missile crisis, civil rights, all of that, but will never know because he was killed. Yeah, it wasn't so much that, Yeah, I mean, he was holding back the forces to get us involved in Vietnam. And it was, of course it was LBJ who immediately when he took over as president.

45:21 Next thing, you know, we're sending thousands of American young men and women to Vietnam. Yeah, you know, somebody mentioned that yesterday, and I guess that wasn't my recollection. I thought we were more involved. But LBJ was the he was ligit because what happened was, you might recall Eisenhower had warned JFK about Vietnam. He says, this is going to be a huge problem. You got to be careful, and he also mentioned at that time. I think it was one of the first times we heard about the industrial military complex, and he said that they were going to really drive this issue and he needed to be mindful of it. So through you know, out his presidency he was able to hold back the forces and you know, and there's of course some story there that that was another potential reason for why JFK had to be taken out. Yeah, I've heard that too, and it makes sense. But the whole cover up of the Warran Commission, see, none of that was this was ever investigated. Yeah, that's where I feel like all of the research out there, research out there, researchers out there should be very upset and now go back into the commission and look into it even more. There's got to be more information out there. I'm not that smart a guy. It's it's out there, so really ask the questions and find out even more than I found. Well, it's kind of like trying to figure out all the shell companies that the Biden family has hiding foreign money.

46:45 I mean, these guys operate at a level the deep state operates at a level of their own control, and they know how to protect themselves and if we'll ever, you know, get the whole truth and nothing but God only knows. But this is the problem with the truth that is quite bothersome for people who lie. Is the truth eventually finds a way out, doesn't it. I do want to deny that I have any assets hidden in Swiss banks. Okay, that's not anything. There was no reference to you. Mark don't want any congressional investigations of me, that's for sure, right exactly. So in terms of this new evidence that has been coming, of course, you know, you've been pulling on strings of evidence, you know, for over fifteen years now as you as you cite and you know, some I'm sure of taking you to rabbit holes. Others have been quite provocative in starting to put this more and more together. So we've got two minutes left.

47:44 I'm going to let you kind of summarize, you know, your recent findings. Where we are today on you know, the sixtieth anniversary of the assassination of JFK. Well, what I want to do too is let people know it's Mark Shawbooks, that's my website, and I answer every single email that comes to me because I'm always worried that I won't get something, for instance, not answering Morris Wolfe. So it's m mshaw I am at Yahoo dot com. I think there's another connection here with Marylyn Dorothy and JFK's death, and I think that's the death of Robert F. Kennedy in nineteen sixty eight. I was going to ask you about it. I'm not going to go in that today into that today because we don't have time. But it has to do with motive, and you might just think in your mind, who had the greatest motive to have killed? Have Robert Kennedy killed? Well, just think about Carlos Marcelo for a minute. I was going to say, well, then Robert Kennedy. Wasn't that Robert Kennedy's first statement when they told him that his brother was he goes, it's Carlos. It's Carlos Marcelo, a guy from New Orleans. Right now, Marcelo knows that Robert Kennedy is running for president, and if he becomes president, what's the first thing he's going to do. He's going to come after me, Meek, Carlos Marcello. I haven't been able to put the links together yet, but I'm going to work on it. And maybe one of these days, you know, I'll come up with enough information we can talk again. How about Well, always look forward to talking with you, Mark, You're always welcome on

49:14 the show. Again. Remind everybody of the website so they can get their hands on your book. And as you say, this opportunity what we've shared with them hopefully motivates them to, you know, do a deeper dive, find out for yourself, own your own knowledge, as we're fond of saying here on this show. So again, the website, they can go to markshaw dot com and then the email mshaw I in at Yahoo and find it for justice. I think the way it's written in Morriswelf's photograph and everything is in there, I think that will really shock you because there's even a little bit more than I was able to talk about today. Yes, exactly. Well, Mark Shaw, again, thank you so much for the time. We appreciate it. God's me and my friend take care too. You're a good man, Bill. Thank you. Mark Shaw has been our guest whole powerful information here and the discussions and of course all the conspiracy theory is interesting.

50:06 You know, the conspiracy series, they all start out as a conspiracy until they become true. But sooner or later, I'm with you. I hope that we will discover the whole truth and nothing but because you know, for me, in my lifetime, this was one of the biggest lies that I believe that we've had to tolerate and live with. And it's no wonder that it has been the basis of continual lies brought to you by the deep State and by the government that we supposedly, we the people are supposedly in charge of. Again, our thanks to Mark Shaw and our thanks to you for joining us today. For more information on the show. To be a part of this mighty movement to return to God, check it out Bill Martinez Show dot com. May God bless you and keep you and make His face shine upon you. May He be gracious unto you and give you peace.

50:54 Thank you so much for being with us. God bless Prett