Jesus and Politics, One Woman’s Walk With God In a Mudslinging

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W FOURCY Radio. Hello and welcome. This is Bill Martinez. We are

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live. Great to have you with
us sharing a part of your day.

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For more info on the show,
you can check it out Bill Martinez Show

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dot com. Our next guest is
all about Jesus and Politics. One woman's

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walk with God in a mud slinging
profession, Bunny Pounds is a founder of

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nonprofit Christians Engaged. It aims to
reach and activate a million Christians for America

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and the world's sake. Using her
sixteen year political career as a backdrop,

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Bunny gives readers practical tools for discipling
a nation one heart at a time and

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living the Christian life. Extravagantly even
in a hostile environment. Bunny Pounds,

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Welcome, Michelle. Good to have
you with us. It's so great to

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be with you again, Bill,
and to see you to face on TV.

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That's even better than radio. Well
for both of us, I'm telling

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you, and a delight to our
audience as well. Bunny, and you

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know again, congratulations on the book, on your passion, your walk.

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You know, for sixteen years in
this ministry of understanding, and I like

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you, and the timing of your
walk and what God had purposed you to

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do almost runs coincidental with mine because
it was about fifteen years ago when I

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graduated from Bible College and God said, Okay, you're going to stop being

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this juvenile disc jockey playing records and
taking dedications. We're going to put you

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behind the microphone to you know,
talk about a biblical worldview. And as

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I was addressing this issue deeper and
deeper, like you, I found that

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when it came to positive change in
America, it was the Church that led

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the way exactly. I spent sixteen
years as an activist and a political consultant.

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I was working for members of Congress, state representative, state senators,

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and Frankly, Bill, it was. It was an amazing time. I

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share that in my upcoming book Jesus
and Politics of how you disciple an elected

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official one heart at a time.
But I knew that the only way that

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we can really change or impact America
is if the church wakes up in this

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hour. We frankly, there's a
few of us involved in government that love

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Jesus, and there needs to be
hundreds and thousands of us that are staffers

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that are working on issues, that
are walking beside elected officials campaigning. So

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many jobs in the government space that
are were frankly leading to people that don't

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share our biblical worldview and that should
not be well, Bunny, I mean,

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in some sense you can understand why
people would get burnt out so easily

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because there's lots of headwinds there in
government. Though an elected official may come

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in with the greatest of expectations,
even a biblical worldview, what they have

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to fight there on the beltwagh And
you know, probably as well as anybody

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else who's been there, it's not
an easy battle, is it. It

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is not an easy battle. And
we call Christians to pray, vote and

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engage regularly, which means that we
need to pray for our elected officials.

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You can't just get a Christian brother
or sister elected and send them to Washington,

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DC and literally leave them on the
battlefield unprotected by prayer cover. And

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I think that's what we're doing.
Bill. A lot of times we it's

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out of sight, out of mind. It's just like a foreign missionary going

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to another land. We think,
oh, well, we got that brother

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elected. You know, one of
my best friends is Congressman Michael Cloud from

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Victoria, Texas. He was a
or Roberts University graduate that you know,

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got involved locally and ran for Congress, and by a miracle of God,

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he's in DC now. But you
know, if you send somebody like that

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to d C, all, hell's
going to break out against them, right,

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And we have to pray for them, and we have to encourage them,

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and we have to also hold them
accountable in a loving way, to

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say, remind them constantly who they
are in Christ. Right, it's about

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staying engaged. Bunny, as you
write about, You're exactly right. You

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know, we we send people off
to do our job. But this is

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a representative form of government. It
doesn't mean that you subordinate your responsibilities to

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that one elected official, do you
exactly? We thank God for the Founding

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Fathers that gave us the amazing task
and responsibility we the people to elect our

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representatives. But they're not going there
as a king that just makes mandates right.

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They're going there as a representative to
represent our values and our interests.

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And if we don't continually inform them
of what those things are, if we're

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not engaged, if we're not tracking. I tell every Christian, whether it's

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your Statehouse or Washington, d C. You should be tracking the bills that

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your elected official is signing onto.
What are they co sponsoring. You can

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easily do that with a click of
the internet. On the US House page,

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on the Senate page, and on
your state legislature pages. You should

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be following what they're signing onto,
what they're voting for. And you know,

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if you are in their life,
send them a little email, send

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them a little text going proud of
you whether or hey, maybe you need

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to rethink this and stay in their
life to get feedback. Yeah, exactly.

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Well, you know the whole idea
is, you say, our founding

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fathers, when they initiated those three
powerful words, we the people. It

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told us, not it told the
citizens at the time and us two hundred

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and forty seven, forty eight years
later that we're responsible for the government that

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we have. So you know,
to your point, we have to stay

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stay engaged with them. And how
much time do you think that would take

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a week, Bunny to you know, take a moment just to follow up

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on legislation. Are we talking less
than twenty minutes? Maybe? Absolutely.

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You can get Google alerts. You
can set up Google alerts for your elected

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officials' names. You can again get
these little emails from the Hill updating you

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on what your elected official is doing. I track, you know, several

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news sources Politico Hill, and I
like look for, you know, different

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areas that I'm interested in and make
sure that I'm staying engaged. It's not

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a huge commitment. It just means
that we're not putting our heads in the

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sand and we're looking for valid news
sources. That's another issue bill, making

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sure we're looking at valid news sources
and we're verifying things so that we can

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be a trusted source to our family
and friends. Well, and that's been

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the challenge that we've had see up
until recently, we thought we could trust

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the news services, and we're realizing
in great number those that we trusted are

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no longer trustworthy. They've proved themselves
to be untrustworthy and they're scrambling right now

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to regain some credibility. But meanwhile, thank god, we have many options

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available, Bunny, as you're aware
that we can, you know, find

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out and discover the truth. It's
not going to be automatic. We say

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on the show repeatedly that it is
our responsibility, each of us, our

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responsibility individually to own our own knowledge. Don't just take, you know,

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Bill and Bunny's word for it.
You know, if we've said something and

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it challenges, it challenges your spirit, check it out and investigate and then

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oh yeah, by the way,
do us a favor, send us a

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note back and tell us what you
found, a good, bad or and

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different challenge us, because that's what
I'm here for, is to be challenged.

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And hopefully through this exercise, Bunny
and I know you feel the same

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way that as a result of coming
in contact with us, people are enlarged

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and they're all the better for the
experience. Right absolutely. You know,

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one rule of thumb we like to
tell our Christians get engaged with Christians engaged

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is you know? Check out?
You know, if you have a story

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comes across your Facebook feed, look
at three different news sources you know,

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get verification. They could be on
the right, the left, central,

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but make sure that you're checking to
see if that's showing up in different places,

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then it's usually true. And dig
into the facts. Look at it

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a little deeper than just reading the
headline or reading the article at face value.

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Check some of the links that the
article is referring to. It's amazing,

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Bill if people just put their head
into staying informed. How much an

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individual citizen can make a difference.
Yeah, without a doubt. And of

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course you talk about it in your
new book, Jesus and Politics, One

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Woman's Walk with God in a mud
slinging profession. We're talking with Bunny Pounds

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right now, Bunny again, going
back to what we originally talked about,

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is the power of people of faith. Our constitution was designed for a moral

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and righteous people, a former president
said, Without such it cannot stand.

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And right now in this post modernistic
Christian world that we're experiencing right now,

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this is why we're getting pummeled,
I believe, and why so many a

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majority of Americans believe we're on the
wrong track. I say, okay,

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good observation. What does the right
track look like? Bunny well As our

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new Speaker of the House said,
if you want to know what I believe,

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look at the Bible on my shelf. Right. Unfortunately, as you

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know, Bill, many Christians don't
read their Bible. Most Christians don't understand

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what a biblical worldview is. But
a biblical worldview goes beyond the surface of

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I'm a Christian or I'm a good
person. It is really looking at how

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God impacts every issue of our life. Whether that's our money, whether that's

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taxation, whether that's the sanctity of
life, whether that's wars, whether that's

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Israel, economics. There's so many
things that the Bible talks about justice issues,

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but we have to have an understanding
of what those biblical worldview topics are.

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It's not just what the culture says. You know, Biblical justice is

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not modern social justice. There's different, you know, ways that we see

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the lens of what's happening in our
culture. But we have to do it

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with the Bible first of all.
Exactly well, keep in mind, according

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to George Barnam. Less than fifty
percent of the senior pastors in the pulpit

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today hold to a biblical worldview that's
been declining ever since I met George Barna,

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what probably fifteen years ago, Bunny, and then here we are even

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kids now less than five percent maybe
four percent of biblical worldview. And the

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dangerous part of this is that if
you don't hold to a biblical worldview,

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those are the essential building blocks of
God's infrastructure. You know it again,

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I often use this analogy because it
meant so much to me and stopped me

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in my tracks when the Holy Spirit
led me to this. And that was

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the conversation that God had with Cain
after he after he killed, after God

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rejected his sacrifice, as you'll recall, and broke it down very succinctly,

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and I believe the admonition rings through
the millennium. It says that if you

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do right, will it not go
well for you? And very simple sentence.

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But think about that, if you
do right, if you are doing

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the things that are consistent with God's
infrastructure, then the results will be consistent

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with the pattern that He established in
his infrastructure. Being true to that.

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So you know, It's just like
you know, the fig trees not all

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of a sudden going to spit spit
out apples or strawberries. It's always going

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to spit out figs because that's what
it's designed to do. And everything about

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God's creation is designed with a specific
purpose to produce a specific results. If

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you violate that infrastructure, like you
decide, oh, I know better than

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gravity, well guess what you're going
to find out after repeated challenges to said

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gravity that you know you're fighting an
infrastructure. You're fighting a law that God

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has established right absolutely, And he's
a loving father. It's really out of

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his love. You know. I
have a one year old little grand baby

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and he's learning now that he can
try to push the envelope right. He's

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starting about he's about ready to walk, and he's in that place where he's

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trying to figure out what can he
get away with legally, right, But

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it's our love as parents and grandparents
to put those boundaries around our kids.

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And it's the same thing for the
father. He really wants our life to

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prosper. And so when he says
marriage is designed between a man and a

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woman in covenant marriage, he's doing
that not to punish us. He's doing

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that to say, you know what, this is beautiful and this will keep

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your heart in a good place.
That will keep your soul in a good

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place. You won't have to worry
about rejection, insecurities, jealousy, and

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so there's so much that we allow
in because the culture tells us it's okay,

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but it's not for our well being
exactly. Well, you mentioned the

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sanctity of life, and here we
are. I mean, the reason that

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we are where we are is because
of the choices that we've made early on.

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It's all. This is all the
fruit of years of choices and a

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disrespect of life, a defiance to
God's logist as you were saying, and

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we figured, Okay, we're going
to do it our way. And Monny,

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just I look at all the travesty
that America, the world for that

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matter, that we're dealing with,
and you can almost go back to that

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key building block in how we have
abused and decided we're going to turn our

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backs on the sanctity of life and
to murder our children in a mother's womb,

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whether we do it by way of
abortion, by having the child ripped

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apart in the mother's womb, or
if we do it through a chemical abortion,

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which which is so shocking to me, Bunny, that young girls particularly

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are are being male ordered a pill
that the doctors say is like like tyland

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Al. It's like taking tylanol.
But you know, here they are and

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they take a pill thinking it's like
tyland Al, and next thing you know,

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they're cramping up and they're expelled.
You know, they expel the baby

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in their toilet. I mean this
sounds graphic, and I know it's hard

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for people to hear, but you
see, we have tried to be so

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genteel about abortion that it's somehow we
allow it to have places and we're not

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even shocked. You know. It's
like like the Bible says, we don't

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blush anymore. And you know,
we've gotten so hard hearted that we're allowing,

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you know, murder, just flat
out murder of our children to occur

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to the two of over one hundred
million babies, and somehow that's okay.

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And women want to continue to talk
about reproductive rights and forget about all the

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dangers and what this has done as
a as a basic building block to a

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civil society. Well, and it's
so important bill, that people understand that

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the fight against abortion is not over
just because Roe v. Wade was overturned.

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You know, we have a constant
fight, like you said, with

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mail order chemical abortions, with you
know, states that are continuing to legalize

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this in their state, and it
causes physical harm to women, It causes

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emotional harm to women, It causes
emotional harm to men that paid for those

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abortions or that know that their babies
are not alive right, And so this

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affects so many people in our churches, I hate to say this, and

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pastors realizing that they need to speak
up and they need to bring love and

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compassion and comfort but also repentance to
their congregations on these issues, because if

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we don't deal with them, if
we don't talk about them, we're never

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going to see real deliverance and healing
in people's hearts. And I hope what

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people are hearing is not condemnation here. I hope they're hearing compassion because I

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feel the reason that this has swelled
up so much in me over the years

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is I was hearing repeatedly from women, Bunny that they say, oh,

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my child would have been seven years
old today, or my child would have

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been fourteen. Well, you know
they were told by the doctors, Oh,

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this is just like a tumor.
We're just taking a tumor out.

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I don't know about you, but
I don't know when the last time I've

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heard even myself having a tumor or
some mole taken off my body, and

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I remembered how old that tumor or
mole would have been. You know,

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this is absurd, but this is
part of the big lie that we've bought

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into. And as you say,
men and women have bought into this,

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but the science is out there.
We have seen it now quite clearly.

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This is why Roe v. Wade
was reversed. It was sent back to

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the States, and my prayer is
that the States themselves would step away from

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the emotion of this for just a
moment and consider why this organically spread across

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the country. Why so many women, after forty nine to fifty years of

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experience of an abortion, to realize
that it wasn't so safe and it wasn't

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so rare that they're carrying with them
till the day they die the death of

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their child. Think about that,
that is just horrific. And then to

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see the next generation being led to. That's why they're taking a stand and

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coming up against the government and this
force that wants to for the sake of

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five hundred bucks for an abortion,
to have an industry, to do this

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kind of evil thing on the Sisterhood
of America's future. Well, and this

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is why I wrote my book Bill. I took off last December over really

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a whole month. I took off
and wrote my story of sixteen years because

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I was a homeschooling mom that got
politically active. I went to a state

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convention for the Republican Party and I
testified in front of a platform committee on

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as school choice issue, and that
showed me that I could have a voice

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and I could make a difference.
And then, after years of caring about

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the life issue, really starting to
get activated as a young mom in that

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space, and that led to working
for members of Congress, running campaigns,

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and even running for Congress myself and
almost winning a primary runoff in twenty eighteen.

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But I wrote this book because I
think there's burdens in people's hearts that

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they are not identifying, and it
comes through prayer, comes through seeing injustices.

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And this is just one issue.
But to move a Christian that's being

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awakened and saying what do I do? I want to help activate you through

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my crazy stories to just move out
by faith and start working to see some

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changes in our culture and who better
to do that than the church. And

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then also to encourage those that are
on the front lines of the battle that

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we can't give up. It's not
over, and that God wants to strengthen

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us and he wants us to be
christ followers even as we engage in government

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and politics money. You talk about
your crazy stories, share a bit with

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us, tell us some crazy stories. I'm in the mood, you're in

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the mood. I'm in the mood. Well, you know. I ran

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for Congress in twenty eighteen. It
was a real, huge contested race.

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I tell people all the time,
you haven't lived till you've had over a

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million dollars spent against you and your
family. Wow. My boss had announced

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his retirement from Congress Chairman Jeb Penserling. He was Financial Services chairman in the

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House, and I decided to step
out against a state representative that served two

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of the seven counties in our district. And it was highly contested. We

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had super packs against each of US
one point two million dollars spent on each

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side of a primary runoff, if
you can imagine. Wow. Yeah,

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but you know, you go through
those things, and you know, I

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wish I could tell you I was
in DC. But now I'm happy that

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I'm where I'm at. But at
the moment, losing by a couple thousand

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votes out of forty three thousand,
it was devastating for me. How could

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I have lost this race? And
a couple months later after the race,

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I discovered because I looked at my
opponent's Federal Elections Commission report. That's what

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you do when you hold bitterness,
unforgiveness and offenses, is you keep tracking

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your enemies, right, And I
looked at his FBC report, and I

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discovered that he hadn't spent, he
hadn't actually paid for the runoffs. So

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for two hundred thousand dollars of invoices
had been floated by his consultants during the

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runoff. So to put this,
and this is legal practice, consultants cannot

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bill them till after they win.
But it's the injustice of it. I

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outraised him by three hundred thousand dollars, but yet I paid for everything,

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and he didn't and he won.
You know, that just hit my heart

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in such a deep way, and
over a year of praying for him and

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his family, asking God to take
this bitterness out of my heart. A

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year later, I finally told one
of my friends, I said, you

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know what, I couldn't do something
to get over this. And I don't

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know what I'm going to do,
but I think I'm going to just throw

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him a party and help pay off
the rest of his debt. And he

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owed fifty thousand left of that runoff
debt, and he graciously allowed me to

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do that, and I took a
couple of weeks off of work unpaid,

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and right before we started Christians and
Gag, we held a whole big party

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and we honored him, and we
laid down our unforgiveness and finished paying off

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that debt. Wow. And I
have to tell you that Congressman Lance Goodin

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was the first elected official in my
book to sign off on his story being

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used in this book. And it's
because, you know, God just restored

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our relationship through that process and taught
me that those crazy things that we think

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about doing as Christians, that you
think you can't do in politics and government,

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you can do them well. And
you think about what God is about,

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Bunny. God is about liberty.
Okay, this is why Jesus came

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to set us free, you know. And we get caught up in this

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stuff and it's easy to think it's
justified, right, because it's just not

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fair. And I get we've all
been that and it's been there, and

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it's a great lesson again to be
reminded of that God is ever so faithful

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and merciful because he wants us to
be free. I mean, could you

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imagine, you know, being engaged, you know, starting this new ministry

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and this new entity that God was
catapulting you in. And if you were

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going to carry that ball and chain
with you into this new endeavor, you

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wouldn't have been as successful as you
are today, aymen. One of my

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spiritual fathers, Rafael Cruz, who's
US Senator Ted Kruz's father, told me

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when I brought up this crazy idea. He said, Bunny, you so

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into your next season and you will
readbound fleet well. And that has absolutely

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proven true. Another story I'll tell
you, Bill is, you know I

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was the only person in the country
in twenty eighteen endorsed by Vice President Mike

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Pince, and that was because of
years of praying for him. I had

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a divine encounter with him and Karen
when they were a little unknown member of

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Congress from Indiana ten years before.
But you know, God knew where I

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was supposed to be. And I
tell the story all the time that Mike

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Pence had grabbed my hand during the
campaign and said, Bunny, Karen and

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I are going to be praying for
you every day. We need your light

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in DC. Well, frankly,
I took that as I'm going to be

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in DC right, my Light's going
to be there ongoing, not just through

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consulting, And that didn't happen,
and it just kind of disappointed my heart.

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Right Well, this last year,
five years later after that race,

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we're now at one hundred and seventy
five thousand Christians getting our reminders to pray,

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vote and engage. Through Christians Engaged, we've sag over two hundred two

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I'm sorry, two thousand people go
through our courses, our long form courses

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to teach them about civics and Biblical
worldview. And we had taken fifty people

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to DC and we had actually got
to pray and minister to ten members of

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Congress and two US senators during that
trip. Wow. Wow. And I'm

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standing there telling that story about Vice
President Pence's words, and it hit me

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Bill in front of these fifty people
that we had brought to d C,

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all of them whose lives had radically
been changed through that trip. Right,

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guys, our light is in DC. My light is in d C exactly,

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just in a different way than I
had thought. Right, But that's

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how God works in our life,
in a bigger manner. And now you

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get the power of fifty Yeah,
woman's of light coming through the darkness of

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DC like that. How awesome is
that? Well? And how much more

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impact can I have? I mean, I value all my brothers and sisters

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that are in Washington taking those hard
votes. But if we can engage you

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know, hundreds of thousands of Christians
in all fifty states, which we're doing

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now, to pray, vote and
engage vote in every election, pray for

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their elected officials, and start engaging
in civic education or involvement that can radically

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change not only Washington, but our
statehouses, are local governments, our county

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governments and everywhere. Bunny Way,
I love what you're doing is you're you

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know, reconnecting with first principles.
We've been saying this for a long time.

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I've been in business most of my
life, and when I had at

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one point in my life, I
consulted CEOs of companies across the country,

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and I would always tell them about, you know, really banging the drum

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beat of their mission of what it's
all about, because that's their north star.

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If business was off, if something
was not working right, you always

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go back to your north star,
back to first principles to see, Okay,

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what happened? When did we make
a choice? Did we make something

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different, a different choice in the
organization culturally? Did we bring something introduce

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something new into the culture that is
not delivering on its promise, that is

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compromising the output of where we are
at this moment and this country being on

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the wrong track as we said earlier
a majority of Americans believe we are.

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Then I say, we got to
get back to first principles. You get

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back to first principles, then you
realize, okay, uh, this is

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where we miss the point, this
is where we've made a mistake. Let's

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go back, let's correct course,
and and then go forward. And what

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you're doing with your organization is,
you're going back to first principles, and

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I want you to, you know, spend a little bit more time,

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if you would, in explaining to
our viewers what your organization is doing and

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what they can do to become a
part of this light that is so needed

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here in our country. Well,
thank you, Bill. You know,

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we are going back to the basics. I believe God is waking up his

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church right now. Is still small, it's still a remnant. But if

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folks are listening to you right now, they're probably feeling a burden for the

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country right or feeling that they have
a purpose. And so we created a

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real simple roadmap. First of all, we go back to prayer. I

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know that sounds like a spiritual buzzword
that we don't really meditate on a lot,

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but prayer matters. Talking to God
matters, hearing from God matters,

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and specifically as it relates to our
elected officials, our leaders, whether that's

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in business, media, education,
government. So we actually pause. Every

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Monday, we send out an email
with a video and remind people to pray

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for five minutes a week and we
pray all together, thousands of us around

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the country for that specific prayer pointated, how powerful is that bunny to be

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in unity with that many people.
I think the same way, you know,

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being born and raised Catholic, the
consistent prayer and every time we pray

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the Lord's Prayer. I think how
many other Catholic churches, how many other

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churches around the country are praying the
Lord's Prayer either that day or or at

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a different time. I just think
that is just so powerful, And it's

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as incense going up into the heavens
to honor God, Almighty. Amen.

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Bill John hears he hears us,
We forget that, he hears us and

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the power bill of Protestants Catholics across
denominational lines saying we are going to connect

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on this scripture and this elect official. So we say, look up your

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mayor, look up your county judge, look up your state representative. We're

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praying for the military today, We're
praying for our pastors today, whatever it

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is every Monday, and then we
send out voting reminders for every election.

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We are the only nonprofit, nonpartisan
organization in the country for Christians that push

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them out to vote in every election
in every state. So that's a powerful

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thing. If a Christian says you
know what, I'm going to make that

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commitment to vote in my local elections
in primaries, to start voting not just

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in presidential elections, but every election. We send out four texts and four

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emails to help you print off your
ballot, research your ballot, and to

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do that with a biblical worldview.
And then thirdly, we have created not

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just a weekly show. We have
a weekly show as well that we put

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out free of charge and hundreds of
articles on our website, but we've also

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are building long form video curriculum that
we can take to churches as well.

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But these are on civics, federal, city, state, county government,

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and also hot topics like justice,
economics, biblical worldview. We've got now

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six major curriculum packages and three more
in development for next year. So we're

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kind of becoming like the Leadership Institute
for the Church as it relates to video

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curriculum, and every Christian man,
if they go through a six hour course

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on their on ramp to civic engagement, can really impact the country. You

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know, I want to talk about
voting for just a second, and this

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idea of separation of church and state, this is one of the biggest lies

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that's been put out there that has
kind of held churches back. It's interfered,

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I believe, with elections, directly
with pastors of church who are afraid

408
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:23.880
that they may lose their tax exemption. Historically, not one church has ever

409
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:29.680
lost its tax exemption. This was
a threat that was started by Lyndon Mains

410
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:35.000
Johnson because he realized what he was
doing the church was not in agreement with

411
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:39.400
and so he kneecapped them. And
it's amazing the damage that has been done.

412
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:45.640
And you talk about voter interference that
has been affected by the Democratic Party,

413
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.200
which started with Lyndon Mainz Johnson by
putting out this threat. God never

414
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:55.359
said that citizens of a nation should
disengage. If anything, he said just

415
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.640
the opposite, did he. Not
so good, Bill, And you know,

416
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:06.279
the Johnson Amendment is a paper tiger, like you said, it's never

417
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.920
been used and it's actually more of
a threat on paper to pastors because then

418
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:15.240
they just like, oh, they
use it as an excuse, right,

419
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.279
but every pastor in America, you
don't have to endorse candidates from the pulpit.

420
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.039
You know, you can do that
in your official your unofficial capacity,

421
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.240
if you want to do that as
a citizen of the United States. But

422
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.960
we're not even recommending that you do
that. We're recommending that you talk from

423
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:36.559
the pulpit about the simplicity of praying
for your government leaders. Fir Timothy too,

424
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:42.119
we're asking you to talk about loving
your neighbors by electing righteous leaders.

425
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:47.599
Every Christian pastor can talk about voting
in relationship to when the righteous rule the

426
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:52.880
people, rejoice when the wicked rule
the people grown Proverbs twenty nine to two.

427
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:59.319
And then every church and every pastor
in America should want their believers,

428
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.160
their members to be outside the walls
of the church. How do we carry

429
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.839
the gospel? How do we bring
truth if we're not in our chamber of

430
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:10.800
commerce, our rotary clubs, our
homeowners' associations, if we're not out there

431
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:16.639
in the community being a part of
our local communities. So, Bill,

432
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:23.079
it's not rocket science, but every
pastor in America should be talking about these

433
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.880
three points. And here at Christians
Engaged we help them. We now have

434
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:32.079
over forty five strategic ministry partners around
the country, and we've been in one

435
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.800
hundred and twenty five churches around the
country helping pastors do that. Well,

436
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.079
that is, you know, that's
awesome because the pastors need to be educated

437
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.519
on this because when you go back, like I said, we go back

438
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:52.039
to first principles when the country first
began. How engaged were churches at that

439
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.320
time, and the things that happened
with this great American idea. I mean

440
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:00.719
even to the point that our first
president, George Washington said, but for

441
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:06.280
the hand of divine providence, this
would have never taken off, we'd never

442
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:08.920
be where we're at. And here
we are two hundred and fifty years later,

443
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:13.679
and somehow people have thought, Okay, hey, God, thanks for

444
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.519
your help, but we'll take it
from here. Really well, exactly,

445
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:22.079
we had a situation with a local
Dallas Fort Worth suburb where the mayor said,

446
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:28.000
we can't have a polling place in
a church, okay, which is

447
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.719
crazy because our county, Dallas County, has polling places in churches all day

448
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.639
long. But he had a big
ruckus about it. And I just said

449
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.320
to the people that were fighting back
against this, you know, think about

450
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.760
little house on the prairie. Think
about the church being the central part some

451
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:52.440
communities, it was the only community
building in the town, right right,

452
00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:59.599
Everything was done in the church.
So where did we decide we can't be

453
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:04.119
involved. If we can't have civic
organizations meeting at the church, we can't

454
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:08.480
have a polling place in the church. It's ridiculous, Bill, and Christians

455
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:14.679
should be active people in community.
If we aren't, what happens. There's

456
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:20.920
a void, there's a void of
leadership, and the people that are anathetically

457
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:27.039
against biblical worldview will come in like
a flood and they will fill those leadership

458
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.559
voids. And that's what we're seeing
on school boards, on city councils all

459
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.320
over this country. It's time for
the Christians to rise up and be active

460
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.880
leaders in those spaces. And we're
seeing what's happened in universities, Bunny,

461
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:42.239
Look what happened. I mean,
these universities were started by Christian organizations.

462
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:45.440
They've been hijacked, taken over.
And look what we see on the streets

463
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:53.159
of America outside of these universities,
these institutions supposedly of higher learning. Absolutely,

464
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.920
and every person listening to you,
Bill needs to analyze, where is

465
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.079
youurine giving going to? Is it
going to a university even though they love

466
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:07.159
that university in the past, but
they are wandered away from their values.

467
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:14.079
Don't keep giving them money. Don't
keep giving money to churches that are becoming

468
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:22.079
progressive Christian churches. Don't give money
to places that are fighting against your biblical

469
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:25.360
values. So it really comes down
to Bill. We have to analyze everything

470
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.440
in our life, and God's trying
to put his finger on us and say,

471
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:37.320
will you follow me in all of
these areas and trust that God knows

472
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.840
what areas that we need to be
focused on. It may seem overwhelming,

473
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.840
Bunny, and I get it,
you know, if you've been in this,

474
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:46.559
if you've been disengaged for a while, and you're going you know,

475
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.000
because I get it. You know, people built you know, I've got

476
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.519
children to raise. I'm dealing with
this. I'm already fighting with the school

477
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:59.239
because of these goofy books that they
want to bring in. You know,

478
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:04.440
attacks young girls, and you know, gender neutral bathrooms and on and on.

479
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.000
There's no doubt it's it's a hot
mess. But you know the fact

480
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.679
of the matter is is yes,
you know, your sentiment is right,

481
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.920
your sensitivity is are right. We
are in a cultural war like we've never

482
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.920
been before. But you can't just
call in your time. You've got to

483
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.280
engage. But you've got to do
it in a way that is strategic.

484
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:30.280
It makes sense. And this is
what you you know you're doing with Christians

485
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.480
Engaged. It's not like you're just
doing a shotgun pell Mell type of approach

486
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.800
to this. I mean there's some
strategy involved here to where you can put

487
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:45.159
you know, you can concentrate your
firepower in places where it's it's most needed

488
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:51.400
and can be most effective. Right
Amen, Every Christian that's waking up should

489
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:55.679
go to our website at Christians Engaged
dot org and take the pledge to pray,

490
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.239
vote, and engage and we'll start
helping you do those three things.

491
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:06.159
Secondly, Bill is get in our
on Ramp to Civic Engagement seminar. That's

492
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.920
our step two for every Christian that
calls us and says what do I do?

493
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:15.159
That class will teach you how to
walk with your elected officials. What

494
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:19.679
is a political party? What is
a platform? How do I advocate?

495
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:24.159
We'll give you strategic ideas. We
aren't We don't have to be involved in

496
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:30.159
federal, state, local government.
We have to do what God's calling us

497
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:35.559
to do. Bill, And if
every Christian would, you know, stand

498
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.559
on the wall and do what God
tells them to do. An obedience,

499
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:45.039
all of the places would be filled. But we have to start somewhere and

500
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.960
just say, God, what are
you calling me to do in this space?

501
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.519
What? What does that look like? What you know that commitment for

502
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.800
phase two? What does that look
like? It's a six hour course.

503
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.719
It's twenty nine dollars for that class. That's it, and you keep forever.

504
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:06.360
We have about twelve videos and then
pdf notes and discussions. You can

505
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.760
use it with your family, your
grandkids, you can, uh, you

506
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:14.440
know, show it on your TV. It's a it's a great product and

507
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.400
it's just one of the many products
that we have. But if you get

508
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:22.840
that and pre order my book Jesus
and Politics, that'll give you a good

509
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:28.360
start to get moving forward. And
again, Bill, you know ne Amyah

510
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.320
is a great study of this,
the Book of me A Maayah. I

511
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:37.079
did a whole Bible study on yes. So he came into a city and

512
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:43.159
within fifty two days he repaired the
walls of the whole city. He did

513
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.239
that one brick at a time,
and he did that through people that said,

514
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:51.559
you know what, I'm going to
repair the walls in my community behind

515
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:55.519
my house. He kind of focused
them in, say you take responsibility for

516
00:40:55.679 --> 00:41:00.360
your area. Don't worry about the
whole wall. Worry about that. And

517
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.320
that's what God's saying to us right
now, Bill, don't worry about all

518
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.719
the problems. Let me handle the
problems. Am I not big enough to

519
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:15.039
handle the problems? You just be
obedient to what you feel that tug in

520
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.960
your heart is. And that's what
we try to do with Christians engaged,

521
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.559
Bill, is help people hear the
voice of the Lord as it relates to

522
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:27.920
these topics and then step out and
start moving forward. Yeah. And like

523
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:34.000
the book of Nehemiah, the wall
builder himself, I mean it was action.

524
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.119
You know, they had to build
the wall, they had to pray,

525
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.360
and they had to do spiritual warfare, right because they were being attacked

526
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.519
on all levels here. And you
got to know, if you're going to

527
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.000
be a wall builder, they're going
to come after you. But that's okay

528
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:54.559
because God is there to defend the
cause, right exactly. I had somebody

529
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:59.079
say to me the other day,
Bunny, you're like an Ezra and a

530
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:02.880
Nehemiah, And I thought, Wow, what an incredible compliment. But what

531
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.159
he meant by that is you have
to learn, as a Christian how to

532
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:12.599
go back to the word of God. Ezra led people back to reading the

533
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:16.119
Word, to meditating on the Word
of God, spending time with the Lord

534
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:22.239
in his temple, and then Nehemiah
got the defenses built back up. But

535
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:27.239
the ultimate reason why he was trying
to build the wall was to make sure

536
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.159
that the presence of God and the
temple was protected. So ultimately, Bill,

537
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.800
what we're doing with Christians Engage is
to help protect liberty in America so

538
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:42.679
that we can worship God freely in
this country, so we have the economic

539
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.960
prosperity and liberty, so that the
Gospel can go to the ends of the

540
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.960
earth, and so that we have
freedoms to raise up our kids and our

541
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.760
grandkids in the fear and admonition of
the Lord. So people go, why

542
00:42:54.800 --> 00:43:00.920
are you having a civic engagement ministry
That doesn't even make sense. We're Jesus

543
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:05.119
preaching the gospel. That's right.
Well, you know what you need me,

544
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:09.559
and you need Christians Engaged to help
inform Christians and get them on the

545
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.920
wall so that we have the freedom
to read the Word of God and to

546
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.360
do what we're called to be because
instinctively, you know, Bunny, with

547
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:22.119
all the problems you know, I
see people instinctively looking up these days.

548
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:25.559
I go, why are you looking
up? Because they know the answer is

549
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:30.360
not in this plane, it's not
in this world. It is it is

550
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:37.239
above. Just innately people will look
up and so here you know the difference

551
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:43.400
between then and now. Then they
had a temple. Now we are the

552
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:49.599
temple. Right, So you think
about the power that is in each one

553
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.760
of us if we would only be
obedient to God and trust God. And

554
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:58.960
it's not so much that you know, oh, that you know that we

555
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:04.800
have the power. It's that we're
honored and blessed to co labor with God

556
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.199
and how He uses us. It
is amazing. And I'm sure you've seen

557
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:15.760
with the group that you've organized here
the manifestation of God's power through these individuals.

558
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:22.000
This has just got to be so
satisfying for you. We had a

559
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.199
young father, Bill that went on
our DC trip last summer this summer,

560
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:30.199
and he stood up at our community
meal when we introduced each other to you

561
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.599
know, where are you from,
what's your name? That kind of thing,

562
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.599
and he says, well, my
motto has been pray, vote,

563
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:40.239
complain. But I'm hoping that this
trip changes it to pray, vote,

564
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.360
engage. Yes. Well, a
week after he got home from that trip,

565
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:52.000
a week after there was a special
seat opened up on city council in

566
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:57.000
his city, and one of the
pastors in the community recruited him to run

567
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.360
for city council and he is now
in a runof off. The election is

568
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:06.800
just in five days. And I
really believe that whether he wins that race

569
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.559
or not, God has moved him
into obedience and really to the call of

570
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:15.400
God on his life to be a
leader where he never saw possible. And

571
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:19.639
that's just him being obedience to say, you know, let me take my

572
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.480
wife and my daughter with me to
a trip to d C. Just that

573
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:29.400
one moment of obedience led him into
a whole nother journey. Money. We

574
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.280
pray God's will wuld be done in
his life. I mean, he answered

575
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:38.039
the call, he stepped up,
and God is faithful. And I pray

576
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:45.320
that magnificent things would occur that only
would come from God, that God would

577
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:54.360
not be overshadowed in any part whatsoever, that this man's heart would be a

578
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:59.000
light, you know, this light
that we're talking about, into a dark

579
00:45:59.079 --> 00:46:02.719
world, and that to he,
you know, I trust that he's God's

580
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.960
man for the season here. I
really believe that. I believe it too,

581
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:10.280
Bill, And that's the power.
You know. I wrote these crazy

582
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:15.079
stories in my book about hearing a
word from God for elected official on an

583
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:20.880
airplane, or showing up at a
Bato or Rourke rally to pray for him.

584
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:24.679
You know, someone that's not in
my party that I associated with,

585
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:31.480
you know, having moments where I
walked beside a terminally ill member of Congress

586
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:37.440
before he was elected and got helped
get him elected to Washington. So you

587
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:42.199
know, there's moments we all have
to choose to be obedient, and what

588
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:46.440
God does in that obedience its exponential
in the lives of the people around us.

589
00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:52.199
And that's why I wrote this book
and why we're helping get Christians engaged.

590
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.519
Bill. Well, like you say
it, you know, these stories

591
00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:01.199
may seem crazy, but that's because
you're trusting God, and because people know

592
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:06.360
on the surface, I mean,
who would go and throw a party for

593
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:13.719
an opponent that you were struggling with
to help him clear up his election liabilities?

594
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:19.679
Only someone who could manifest the love
of God. And I got to

595
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:22.800
imagine this man's life was greatly affected
by that. I don't know how you

596
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:29.000
have that happen to you and not
think you know, if that doesn't alter

597
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.480
your worldview in any way, I
don't know what will. Well, we

598
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.159
text and we call, and I
had breakfast with him in DC when I

599
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:42.280
was there in July, and again
he has been overly gracious to push this

600
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:46.159
encourage, this book to people because
he believes these are the kind of stories

601
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:52.159
that people need to hear that we
can operate different than the political spirit.

602
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:58.199
We can do politics without the political
spirit, meaning we don't have to do

603
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.119
it the way the world does it. We can do it in the nature

604
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:05.320
of Christ. And that's what we
want to encourage people and hold them accountable

605
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:10.320
with to be real Christ followers as
they're engaging in politics and government well money.

606
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:16.119
Like you, I've always been interested
in politics, but I'm very disappointed

607
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:23.159
on where politics stands today. It
is. It is hard, it's hurtful,

608
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:30.480
it is certainly is not what God
intended for us to have because you

609
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:35.880
know, as they say, you
know, good politics makes for good policy,

610
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:42.159
and we're not getting good policy these
days. So politics is sick right

611
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.079
now, and it's going to take
people of faith to heal it. I

612
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believe it cannot be done out of
the Beltway because you're asking you're you're asking

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brain surgeons to do brain surgery on
themselves. Essentially. Right, we got

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about a minute left. I'm gonna
let you, Bunny, summarize, summarize

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that statement, summarize where we are
and what you want people to get from

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your book, and also where they
can go for more information. How's that

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00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.719
for about five questions all in one
time. Yeah. Go to christians Engage

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dot org. Take the pledge to
pray, vote and engage and start on

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a journey for Engaging for America,
and pre order Jesus and Politics wherever you

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00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.920
get your books. I heard that
Barnes and Noble and Books a Million got

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an order early, so if you
want that before it actually releases February sixth,

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00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:31.920
order pre order or get it now
on Barnes and Noble and Books a

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Million. But wherever you get your
books, you can order that book.

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Well, Bunny Pounds, it's been
our guest. She's the founder and president

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of Christians Engaged, which seeks to
awake and educate and empower Christians to pray,

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vote, and engage regularly in efforts
to improve the nation's well being.

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And again in getting involved and engaging
with with the organization Christians Engaged. You

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will walk them through how they can
through the program and how they can be

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engaged and be effective at a local, at a regional, even a national

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level, if that's to be God's
will, because as Jesus told us,

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where to take the gospel message from
Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria and the othermost

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parts of the world. Right Amen, Thank you Bill for all you do,

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and let's get the church awakened and
educated and empowered in this moment.

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00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:34.480
I'm with you, Bunny. You
take care, God blessed. Thank you

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00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:38.599
so much. Bunny Pouns has been
our guests. We're so grateful for Bunny

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for being with us, and thank
you for sharing a part of your day.

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Hopefully this is blessed you has encouraged
you, enlarged you, and motivated

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you to check this out for yourself. May God bless you and keep you,

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May make His face shine upon you. May He be gracious unto you

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and give you peace. Thank you
so much for being with a scud. Bless h