Jesus and Politics, One Woman’s Walk With God In a Mudslinging

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. Hello and welcome. This is Bill Martinez. We are live. Great to have you with us sharing a part of your day.

0:44 For more info on the show, you can check it out Bill Martinez Show dot com. Our next guest is all about Jesus and Politics. One woman's walk with God in a mud slinging profession, Bunny Pounds is a founder of nonprofit Christians Engaged. It aims to reach and activate a million Christians for America and the world's sake. Using her sixteen year political career as a backdrop, Bunny gives readers practical tools for discipling a nation one heart at a time and living the Christian life. Extravagantly even in a hostile environment. Bunny Pounds, Welcome, Michelle. Good to have you with us. It's so great to be with you again, Bill, and to see you to face on TV.

1:27 That's even better than radio. Well for both of us, I'm telling you, and a delight to our audience as well. Bunny, and you know again, congratulations on the book, on your passion, your walk. You know, for sixteen years in this ministry of understanding, and I like you, and the timing of your walk and what God had purposed you to do almost runs coincidental with mine because it was about fifteen years ago when I graduated from Bible College and God said, Okay, you're going to stop being this juvenile disc jockey playing records and taking dedications. We're going to put you behind the microphone to you know, talk about a biblical worldview. And as I was addressing this issue deeper and deeper, like you, I found that when it came to positive change in America, it was the Church that led the way exactly. I spent sixteen years as an activist and a political consultant.

2:24 I was working for members of Congress, state representative, state senators, and Frankly, Bill, it was. It was an amazing time. I share that in my upcoming book Jesus and Politics of how you disciple an elected official one heart at a time. But I knew that the only way that we can really change or impact America is if the church wakes up in this hour. We frankly, there's a few of us involved in government that love Jesus, and there needs to be hundreds and thousands of us that are staffers that are working on issues, that are walking beside elected officials campaigning. So many jobs in the government space that are were frankly leading to people that don't share our biblical worldview and that should not be well, Bunny, I mean, in some sense you can understand why people would get burnt out so easily because there's lots of headwinds there in government. Though an elected official may come in with the greatest of expectations, even a biblical worldview, what they have to fight there on the beltwagh And you know, probably as well as anybody else who's been there, it's not an easy battle, is it. It is not an easy battle. And we call Christians to pray, vote and engage regularly, which means that we need to pray for our elected officials.

3:47 You can't just get a Christian brother or sister elected and send them to Washington, DC and literally leave them on the battlefield unprotected by prayer cover. And I think that's what we're doing. Bill. A lot of times we it's out of sight, out of mind. It's just like a foreign missionary going to another land. We think, oh, well, we got that brother elected. You know, one of my best friends is Congressman Michael Cloud from Victoria, Texas. He was a or Roberts University graduate that you know, got involved locally and ran for Congress, and by a miracle of God, he's in DC now. But you know, if you send somebody like that to d C, all, hell's going to break out against them, right, And we have to pray for them, and we have to encourage them, and we have to also hold them accountable in a loving way, to say, remind them constantly who they are in Christ. Right, it's about staying engaged. Bunny, as you write about, You're exactly right. You know, we we send people off to do our job. But this is a representative form of government. It doesn't mean that you subordinate your responsibilities to that one elected official, do you exactly? We thank God for the Founding Fathers that gave us the amazing task and responsibility we the people to elect our representatives. But they're not going there as a king that just makes mandates right.

5:15 They're going there as a representative to represent our values and our interests. And if we don't continually inform them of what those things are, if we're not engaged, if we're not tracking. I tell every Christian, whether it's your Statehouse or Washington, d C. You should be tracking the bills that your elected official is signing onto. What are they co sponsoring. You can easily do that with a click of the internet. On the US House page, on the Senate page, and on your state legislature pages. You should be following what they're signing onto, what they're voting for. And you know, if you are in their life, send them a little email, send them a little text going proud of you whether or hey, maybe you need to rethink this and stay in their life to get feedback. Yeah, exactly.

6:06 Well, you know the whole idea is, you say, our founding fathers, when they initiated those three powerful words, we the people. It told us, not it told the citizens at the time and us two hundred and forty seven, forty eight years later that we're responsible for the government that we have. So you know, to your point, we have to stay stay engaged with them. And how much time do you think that would take a week, Bunny to you know, take a moment just to follow up on legislation. Are we talking less than twenty minutes? Maybe? Absolutely. You can get Google alerts. You can set up Google alerts for your elected officials' names. You can again get these little emails from the Hill updating you on what your elected official is doing. I track, you know, several news sources Politico Hill, and I like look for, you know, different areas that I'm interested in and make sure that I'm staying engaged. It's not a huge commitment. It just means that we're not putting our heads in the sand and we're looking for valid news sources. That's another issue bill, making sure we're looking at valid news sources and we're verifying things so that we can be a trusted source to our family and friends. Well, and that's been the challenge that we've had see up until recently, we thought we could trust the news services, and we're realizing in great number those that we trusted are no longer trustworthy. They've proved themselves to be untrustworthy and they're scrambling right now

7:41 to regain some credibility. But meanwhile, thank god, we have many options available, Bunny, as you're aware that we can, you know, find out and discover the truth. It's not going to be automatic. We say on the show repeatedly that it is our responsibility, each of us, our responsibility individually to own our own knowledge. Don't just take, you know, Bill and Bunny's word for it. You know, if we've said something and it challenges, it challenges your spirit, check it out and investigate and then oh yeah, by the way, do us a favor, send us a note back and tell us what you found, a good, bad or and different challenge us, because that's what I'm here for, is to be challenged. And hopefully through this exercise, Bunny and I know you feel the same way that as a result of coming in contact with us, people are enlarged and they're all the better for the experience. Right absolutely. You know, one rule of thumb we like to tell our Christians get engaged with Christians engaged is you know? Check out? You know, if you have a story comes across your Facebook feed, look at three different news sources you know, get verification. They could be on the right, the left, central, but make sure that you're checking to see if that's showing up in different places, then it's usually true. And dig into the facts. Look at it a little deeper than just reading the headline or reading the article at face value.

9:05 Check some of the links that the article is referring to. It's amazing, Bill if people just put their head into staying informed. How much an individual citizen can make a difference. Yeah, without a doubt. And of course you talk about it in your new book, Jesus and Politics, One Woman's Walk with God in a mud slinging profession. We're talking with Bunny Pounds right now, Bunny again, going back to what we originally talked about, is the power of people of faith. Our constitution was designed for a moral and righteous people, a former president said, Without such it cannot stand.

9:46 And right now in this post modernistic Christian world that we're experiencing right now, this is why we're getting pummeled, I believe, and why so many a majority of Americans believe we're on the wrong track. I say, okay, good observation. What does the right track look like? Bunny well As our new Speaker of the House said, if you want to know what I believe, look at the Bible on my shelf. Right. Unfortunately, as you know, Bill, many Christians don't read their Bible. Most Christians don't understand what a biblical worldview is. But a biblical worldview goes beyond the surface of I'm a Christian or I'm a good person. It is really looking at how God impacts every issue of our life. Whether that's our money, whether that's taxation, whether that's the sanctity of life, whether that's wars, whether that's Israel, economics. There's so many things that the Bible talks about justice issues, but we have to have an understanding of what those biblical worldview topics are.

10:54 It's not just what the culture says. You know, Biblical justice is not modern social justice. There's different, you know, ways that we see the lens of what's happening in our culture. But we have to do it with the Bible first of all. Exactly well, keep in mind, according to George Barnam. Less than fifty percent of the senior pastors in the pulpit today hold to a biblical worldview that's been declining ever since I met George Barna, what probably fifteen years ago, Bunny, and then here we are even kids now less than five percent maybe four percent of biblical worldview. And the dangerous part of this is that if you don't hold to a biblical worldview, those are the essential building blocks of God's infrastructure. You know it again, I often use this analogy because it meant so much to me and stopped me in my tracks when the Holy Spirit led me to this. And that was the conversation that God had with Cain after he after he killed, after God rejected his sacrifice, as you'll recall, and broke it down very succinctly, and I believe the admonition rings through the millennium. It says that if you do right, will it not go well for you? And very simple sentence.

12:11 But think about that, if you do right, if you are doing the things that are consistent with God's infrastructure, then the results will be consistent with the pattern that He established in his infrastructure. Being true to that. So you know, It's just like you know, the fig trees not all of a sudden going to spit spit out apples or strawberries. It's always going to spit out figs because that's what it's designed to do. And everything about God's creation is designed with a specific purpose to produce a specific results. If you violate that infrastructure, like you decide, oh, I know better than gravity, well guess what you're going to find out after repeated challenges to said gravity that you know you're fighting an infrastructure. You're fighting a law that God has established right absolutely, And he's a loving father. It's really out of his love. You know. I have a one year old little grand baby and he's learning now that he can try to push the envelope right. He's starting about he's about ready to walk, and he's in that place where he's trying to figure out what can he get away with legally, right, But it's our love as parents and grandparents to put those boundaries around our kids.

13:33 And it's the same thing for the father. He really wants our life to prosper. And so when he says marriage is designed between a man and a woman in covenant marriage, he's doing that not to punish us. He's doing that to say, you know what, this is beautiful and this will keep your heart in a good place. That will keep your soul in a good place. You won't have to worry about rejection, insecurities, jealousy, and so there's so much that we allow in because the culture tells us it's okay, but it's not for our well being exactly. Well, you mentioned the sanctity of life, and here we are. I mean, the reason that we are where we are is because of the choices that we've made early on.

14:18 It's all. This is all the fruit of years of choices and a disrespect of life, a defiance to God's logist as you were saying, and we figured, Okay, we're going to do it our way. And Monny, just I look at all the travesty that America, the world for that matter, that we're dealing with, and you can almost go back to that key building block in how we have abused and decided we're going to turn our backs on the sanctity of life and to murder our children in a mother's womb, whether we do it by way of abortion, by having the child ripped apart in the mother's womb, or if we do it through a chemical abortion, which which is so shocking to me, Bunny, that young girls particularly are are being male ordered a pill that the doctors say is like like tyland Al. It's like taking tylanol. But you know, here they are and they take a pill thinking it's like tyland Al, and next thing you know, they're cramping up and they're expelled. You know, they expel the baby in their toilet. I mean this sounds graphic, and I know it's hard for people to hear, but you see, we have tried to be so genteel about abortion that it's somehow we allow it to have places and we're not even shocked. You know. It's like like the Bible says, we don't blush anymore. And you know, we've gotten so hard hearted that we're allowing,

15:54 you know, murder, just flat out murder of our children to occur to the two of over one hundred million babies, and somehow that's okay. And women want to continue to talk about reproductive rights and forget about all the dangers and what this has done as a as a basic building block to a civil society. Well, and it's so important bill, that people understand that the fight against abortion is not over just because Roe v. Wade was overturned. You know, we have a constant fight, like you said, with mail order chemical abortions, with you know, states that are continuing to legalize this in their state, and it causes physical harm to women, It causes emotional harm to women, It causes emotional harm to men that paid for those abortions or that know that their babies are not alive right, And so this affects so many people in our churches, I hate to say this, and pastors realizing that they need to speak up and they need to bring love and compassion and comfort but also repentance to their congregations on these issues, because if we don't deal with them, if we don't talk about them, we're never going to see real deliverance and healing in people's hearts. And I hope what people are hearing is not condemnation here. I hope they're hearing compassion because I feel the reason that this has swelled up so much in me over the years

17:27 is I was hearing repeatedly from women, Bunny that they say, oh, my child would have been seven years old today, or my child would have been fourteen. Well, you know they were told by the doctors, Oh, this is just like a tumor. We're just taking a tumor out. I don't know about you, but I don't know when the last time I've heard even myself having a tumor or some mole taken off my body, and I remembered how old that tumor or mole would have been. You know, this is absurd, but this is part of the big lie that we've bought into. And as you say, men and women have bought into this, but the science is out there. We have seen it now quite clearly.

18:07 This is why Roe v. Wade was reversed. It was sent back to the States, and my prayer is that the States themselves would step away from the emotion of this for just a moment and consider why this organically spread across the country. Why so many women, after forty nine to fifty years of experience of an abortion, to realize that it wasn't so safe and it wasn't so rare that they're carrying with them till the day they die the death of their child. Think about that, that is just horrific. And then to see the next generation being led to. That's why they're taking a stand and coming up against the government and this force that wants to for the sake of five hundred bucks for an abortion, to have an industry, to do this kind of evil thing on the Sisterhood of America's future. Well, and this is why I wrote my book Bill. I took off last December over really a whole month. I took off and wrote my story of sixteen years because I was a homeschooling mom that got politically active. I went to a state convention for the Republican Party and I testified in front of a platform committee on as school choice issue, and that showed me that I could have a voice and I could make a difference. And then, after years of caring about the life issue, really starting to get activated as a young mom in that space, and that led to working for members of Congress, running campaigns,

19:40 and even running for Congress myself and almost winning a primary runoff in twenty eighteen. But I wrote this book because I think there's burdens in people's hearts that they are not identifying, and it comes through prayer, comes through seeing injustices. And this is just one issue. But to move a Christian that's being awakened and saying what do I do? I want to help activate you through my crazy stories to just move out by faith and start working to see some changes in our culture and who better to do that than the church. And then also to encourage those that are on the front lines of the battle that we can't give up. It's not over, and that God wants to strengthen us and he wants us to be christ followers even as we engage in government and politics money. You talk about your crazy stories, share a bit with us, tell us some crazy stories. I'm in the mood, you're in the mood. I'm in the mood. Well, you know. I ran for Congress in twenty eighteen. It was a real, huge contested race.

20:45 I tell people all the time, you haven't lived till you've had over a million dollars spent against you and your family. Wow. My boss had announced his retirement from Congress Chairman Jeb Penserling. He was Financial Services chairman in the House, and I decided to step out against a state representative that served two of the seven counties in our district. And it was highly contested. We had super packs against each of US one point two million dollars spent on each side of a primary runoff, if you can imagine. Wow. Yeah, but you know, you go through those things, and you know, I wish I could tell you I was in DC. But now I'm happy that I'm where I'm at. But at the moment, losing by a couple thousand votes out of forty three thousand, it was devastating for me. How could I have lost this race? And a couple months later after the race, I discovered because I looked at my opponent's Federal Elections Commission report. That's what you do when you hold bitterness, unforgiveness and offenses, is you keep tracking your enemies, right, And I looked at his FBC report, and I discovered that he hadn't spent, he hadn't actually paid for the runoffs. So for two hundred thousand dollars of invoices had been floated by his consultants during the runoff. So to put this, and this is legal practice, consultants cannot bill them till after they win. But it's the injustice of it. I

22:15 outraised him by three hundred thousand dollars, but yet I paid for everything, and he didn't and he won. You know, that just hit my heart in such a deep way, and over a year of praying for him and his family, asking God to take this bitterness out of my heart. A year later, I finally told one of my friends, I said, you know what, I couldn't do something to get over this. And I don't know what I'm going to do, but I think I'm going to just throw him a party and help pay off the rest of his debt. And he owed fifty thousand left of that runoff debt, and he graciously allowed me to do that, and I took a couple of weeks off of work unpaid, and right before we started Christians and Gag, we held a whole big party and we honored him, and we laid down our unforgiveness and finished paying off that debt. Wow. And I have to tell you that Congressman Lance Goodin was the first elected official in my book to sign off on his story being used in this book. And it's because, you know, God just restored our relationship through that process and taught me that those crazy things that we think about doing as Christians, that you think you can't do in politics and government, you can do them well. And you think about what God is about, Bunny. God is about liberty. Okay, this is why Jesus came to set us free, you know. And we get caught up in this stuff and it's easy to think it's justified, right, because it's just not fair. And I get we've all been that and it's been there, and

23:48 it's a great lesson again to be reminded of that God is ever so faithful and merciful because he wants us to be free. I mean, could you imagine, you know, being engaged, you know, starting this new ministry and this new entity that God was catapulting you in. And if you were going to carry that ball and chain with you into this new endeavor, you wouldn't have been as successful as you are today, aymen. One of my spiritual fathers, Rafael Cruz, who's US Senator Ted Kruz's father, told me when I brought up this crazy idea. He said, Bunny, you so into your next season and you will readbound fleet well. And that has absolutely proven true. Another story I'll tell you, Bill is, you know I was the only person in the country in twenty eighteen endorsed by Vice President Mike Pince, and that was because of years of praying for him. I had a divine encounter with him and Karen when they were a little unknown member of Congress from Indiana ten years before. But you know, God knew where I was supposed to be. And I tell the story all the time that Mike Pence had grabbed my hand during the campaign and said, Bunny, Karen and I are going to be praying for you every day. We need your light in DC. Well, frankly, I took that as I'm going to be in DC right, my Light's going to be there ongoing, not just through

25:19 consulting, And that didn't happen, and it just kind of disappointed my heart. Right Well, this last year, five years later after that race, we're now at one hundred and seventy five thousand Christians getting our reminders to pray, vote and engage. Through Christians Engaged, we've sag over two hundred two I'm sorry, two thousand people go through our courses, our long form courses to teach them about civics and Biblical worldview. And we had taken fifty people to DC and we had actually got to pray and minister to ten members of Congress and two US senators during that trip. Wow. Wow. And I'm standing there telling that story about Vice President Pence's words, and it hit me Bill in front of these fifty people that we had brought to d C, all of them whose lives had radically been changed through that trip. Right, guys, our light is in DC. My light is in d C exactly, just in a different way than I had thought. Right, But that's how God works in our life, in a bigger manner. And now you get the power of fifty Yeah, woman's of light coming through the darkness of DC like that. How awesome is that? Well? And how much more impact can I have? I mean, I value all my brothers and sisters that are in Washington taking those hard votes. But if we can engage you know, hundreds of thousands of Christians in all fifty states, which we're doing now, to pray, vote and engage vote in every election, pray for

26:53 their elected officials, and start engaging in civic education or involvement that can radically change not only Washington, but our statehouses, are local governments, our county governments and everywhere. Bunny Way, I love what you're doing is you're you know, reconnecting with first principles. We've been saying this for a long time. I've been in business most of my life, and when I had at one point in my life, I consulted CEOs of companies across the country, and I would always tell them about, you know, really banging the drum beat of their mission of what it's all about, because that's their north star.

27:34 If business was off, if something was not working right, you always go back to your north star, back to first principles to see, Okay, what happened? When did we make a choice? Did we make something different, a different choice in the organization culturally? Did we bring something introduce something new into the culture that is not delivering on its promise, that is compromising the output of where we are at this moment and this country being on the wrong track as we said earlier a majority of Americans believe we are. Then I say, we got to get back to first principles. You get back to first principles, then you realize, okay, uh, this is where we miss the point, this is where we've made a mistake. Let's go back, let's correct course, and and then go forward. And what you're doing with your organization is, you're going back to first principles, and I want you to, you know, spend a little bit more time, if you would, in explaining to our viewers what your organization is doing and what they can do to become a part of this light that is so needed here in our country. Well, thank you, Bill. You know, we are going back to the basics. I believe God is waking up his church right now. Is still small, it's still a remnant. But if folks are listening to you right now, they're probably feeling a burden for the country right or feeling that they have a purpose. And so we created a real simple roadmap. First of all, we go back to prayer. I

29:06 know that sounds like a spiritual buzzword that we don't really meditate on a lot, but prayer matters. Talking to God matters, hearing from God matters, and specifically as it relates to our elected officials, our leaders, whether that's in business, media, education, government. So we actually pause. Every Monday, we send out an email with a video and remind people to pray for five minutes a week and we pray all together, thousands of us around the country for that specific prayer pointated, how powerful is that bunny to be in unity with that many people. I think the same way, you know, being born and raised Catholic, the consistent prayer and every time we pray the Lord's Prayer. I think how many other Catholic churches, how many other churches around the country are praying the Lord's Prayer either that day or or at a different time. I just think that is just so powerful, And it's as incense going up into the heavens to honor God, Almighty. Amen.

30:08 Bill John hears he hears us, We forget that, he hears us and the power bill of Protestants Catholics across denominational lines saying we are going to connect on this scripture and this elect official. So we say, look up your mayor, look up your county judge, look up your state representative. We're praying for the military today, We're praying for our pastors today, whatever it is every Monday, and then we send out voting reminders for every election. We are the only nonprofit, nonpartisan organization in the country for Christians that push them out to vote in every election in every state. So that's a powerful thing. If a Christian says you know what, I'm going to make that commitment to vote in my local elections in primaries, to start voting not just in presidential elections, but every election. We send out four texts and four emails to help you print off your ballot, research your ballot, and to do that with a biblical worldview. And then thirdly, we have created not just a weekly show. We have a weekly show as well that we put out free of charge and hundreds of articles on our website, but we've also are building long form video curriculum that we can take to churches as well.

31:29 But these are on civics, federal, city, state, county government, and also hot topics like justice, economics, biblical worldview. We've got now six major curriculum packages and three more in development for next year. So we're kind of becoming like the Leadership Institute for the Church as it relates to video curriculum, and every Christian man, if they go through a six hour course on their on ramp to civic engagement, can really impact the country. You know, I want to talk about voting for just a second, and this idea of separation of church and state, this is one of the biggest lies that's been put out there that has kind of held churches back. It's interfered, I believe, with elections, directly with pastors of church who are afraid that they may lose their tax exemption. Historically, not one church has ever lost its tax exemption. This was a threat that was started by Lyndon Mains Johnson because he realized what he was doing the church was not in agreement with and so he kneecapped them. And it's amazing the damage that has been done.

32:39 And you talk about voter interference that has been affected by the Democratic Party, which started with Lyndon Mainz Johnson by putting out this threat. God never said that citizens of a nation should disengage. If anything, he said just the opposite, did he. Not so good, Bill, And you know, the Johnson Amendment is a paper tiger, like you said, it's never been used and it's actually more of a threat on paper to pastors because then they just like, oh, they use it as an excuse, right, but every pastor in America, you don't have to endorse candidates from the pulpit.

33:20 You know, you can do that in your official your unofficial capacity, if you want to do that as a citizen of the United States. But we're not even recommending that you do that. We're recommending that you talk from the pulpit about the simplicity of praying for your government leaders. Fir Timothy too, we're asking you to talk about loving your neighbors by electing righteous leaders. Every Christian pastor can talk about voting in relationship to when the righteous rule the people, rejoice when the wicked rule the people grown Proverbs twenty nine to two. And then every church and every pastor in America should want their believers, their members to be outside the walls of the church. How do we carry the gospel? How do we bring truth if we're not in our chamber of commerce, our rotary clubs, our homeowners' associations, if we're not out there in the community being a part of our local communities. So, Bill, it's not rocket science, but every pastor in America should be talking about these three points. And here at Christians Engaged we help them. We now have over forty five strategic ministry partners around the country, and we've been in one hundred and twenty five churches around the country helping pastors do that. Well, that is, you know, that's awesome because the pastors need to be educated on this because when you go back, like I said, we go back to first principles when the country first began. How engaged were churches at that

34:52 time, and the things that happened with this great American idea. I mean even to the point that our first president, George Washington said, but for the hand of divine providence, this would have never taken off, we'd never be where we're at. And here we are two hundred and fifty years later, and somehow people have thought, Okay, hey, God, thanks for your help, but we'll take it from here. Really well, exactly, we had a situation with a local Dallas Fort Worth suburb where the mayor said, we can't have a polling place in a church, okay, which is crazy because our county, Dallas County, has polling places in churches all day long. But he had a big ruckus about it. And I just said to the people that were fighting back against this, you know, think about little house on the prairie. Think about the church being the central part some communities, it was the only community building in the town, right right, Everything was done in the church. So where did we decide we can't be involved. If we can't have civic organizations meeting at the church, we can't have a polling place in the church. It's ridiculous, Bill, and Christians should be active people in community. If we aren't, what happens. There's a void, there's a void of leadership, and the people that are anathetically against biblical worldview will come in like a flood and they will fill those leadership

36:27 voids. And that's what we're seeing on school boards, on city councils all over this country. It's time for the Christians to rise up and be active leaders in those spaces. And we're seeing what's happened in universities, Bunny, Look what happened. I mean, these universities were started by Christian organizations. They've been hijacked, taken over. And look what we see on the streets of America outside of these universities, these institutions supposedly of higher learning. Absolutely, and every person listening to you, Bill needs to analyze, where is youurine giving going to? Is it going to a university even though they love that university in the past, but they are wandered away from their values.

37:07 Don't keep giving them money. Don't keep giving money to churches that are becoming progressive Christian churches. Don't give money to places that are fighting against your biblical values. So it really comes down to Bill. We have to analyze everything in our life, and God's trying to put his finger on us and say, will you follow me in all of these areas and trust that God knows what areas that we need to be focused on. It may seem overwhelming, Bunny, and I get it, you know, if you've been in this, if you've been disengaged for a while, and you're going you know, because I get it. You know, people built you know, I've got children to raise. I'm dealing with this. I'm already fighting with the school because of these goofy books that they want to bring in. You know, attacks young girls, and you know, gender neutral bathrooms and on and on.

38:04 There's no doubt it's it's a hot mess. But you know the fact of the matter is is yes, you know, your sentiment is right, your sensitivity is are right. We are in a cultural war like we've never been before. But you can't just call in your time. You've got to engage. But you've got to do it in a way that is strategic. It makes sense. And this is what you you know you're doing with Christians Engaged. It's not like you're just doing a shotgun pell Mell type of approach to this. I mean there's some strategy involved here to where you can put you know, you can concentrate your firepower in places where it's it's most needed and can be most effective. Right Amen, Every Christian that's waking up should go to our website at Christians Engaged dot org and take the pledge to pray, vote, and engage and we'll start helping you do those three things.

39:00 Secondly, Bill is get in our on Ramp to Civic Engagement seminar. That's our step two for every Christian that calls us and says what do I do? That class will teach you how to walk with your elected officials. What is a political party? What is a platform? How do I advocate? We'll give you strategic ideas. We aren't We don't have to be involved in federal, state, local government. We have to do what God's calling us to do. Bill, And if every Christian would, you know, stand on the wall and do what God tells them to do. An obedience, all of the places would be filled. But we have to start somewhere and just say, God, what are you calling me to do in this space?

39:49 What? What does that look like? What you know that commitment for phase two? What does that look like? It's a six hour course. It's twenty nine dollars for that class. That's it, and you keep forever. We have about twelve videos and then pdf notes and discussions. You can use it with your family, your grandkids, you can, uh, you know, show it on your TV. It's a it's a great product and it's just one of the many products that we have. But if you get that and pre order my book Jesus and Politics, that'll give you a good start to get moving forward. And again, Bill, you know ne Amyah is a great study of this, the Book of me A Maayah. I did a whole Bible study on yes. So he came into a city and within fifty two days he repaired the walls of the whole city. He did that one brick at a time, and he did that through people that said, you know what, I'm going to repair the walls in my community behind my house. He kind of focused them in, say you take responsibility for your area. Don't worry about the whole wall. Worry about that. And that's what God's saying to us right now, Bill, don't worry about all the problems. Let me handle the problems. Am I not big enough to handle the problems? You just be obedient to what you feel that tug in your heart is. And that's what we try to do with Christians engaged, Bill, is help people hear the voice of the Lord as it relates to

41:22 these topics and then step out and start moving forward. Yeah. And like the book of Nehemiah, the wall builder himself, I mean it was action. You know, they had to build the wall, they had to pray, and they had to do spiritual warfare, right because they were being attacked on all levels here. And you got to know, if you're going to be a wall builder, they're going to come after you. But that's okay because God is there to defend the cause, right exactly. I had somebody say to me the other day, Bunny, you're like an Ezra and a Nehemiah, And I thought, Wow, what an incredible compliment. But what he meant by that is you have to learn, as a Christian how to go back to the word of God. Ezra led people back to reading the Word, to meditating on the Word of God, spending time with the Lord in his temple, and then Nehemiah got the defenses built back up. But the ultimate reason why he was trying to build the wall was to make sure that the presence of God and the temple was protected. So ultimately, Bill, what we're doing with Christians Engage is to help protect liberty in America so that we can worship God freely in this country, so we have the economic prosperity and liberty, so that the Gospel can go to the ends of the earth, and so that we have freedoms to raise up our kids and our grandkids in the fear and admonition of the Lord. So people go, why

42:54 are you having a civic engagement ministry That doesn't even make sense. We're Jesus preaching the gospel. That's right. Well, you know what you need me, and you need Christians Engaged to help inform Christians and get them on the wall so that we have the freedom to read the Word of God and to do what we're called to be because instinctively, you know, Bunny, with all the problems you know, I see people instinctively looking up these days. I go, why are you looking up? Because they know the answer is not in this plane, it's not in this world. It is it is above. Just innately people will look up and so here you know the difference between then and now. Then they had a temple. Now we are the temple. Right, So you think about the power that is in each one of us if we would only be obedient to God and trust God. And it's not so much that you know, oh, that you know that we have the power. It's that we're honored and blessed to co labor with God and how He uses us. It is amazing. And I'm sure you've seen with the group that you've organized here the manifestation of God's power through these individuals.

44:15 This has just got to be so satisfying for you. We had a young father, Bill that went on our DC trip last summer this summer, and he stood up at our community meal when we introduced each other to you know, where are you from, what's your name? That kind of thing, and he says, well, my motto has been pray, vote, complain. But I'm hoping that this trip changes it to pray, vote, engage. Yes. Well, a week after he got home from that trip, a week after there was a special seat opened up on city council in his city, and one of the pastors in the community recruited him to run for city council and he is now in a runof off. The election is just in five days. And I really believe that whether he wins that race or not, God has moved him into obedience and really to the call of God on his life to be a leader where he never saw possible. And that's just him being obedience to say, you know, let me take my wife and my daughter with me to a trip to d C. Just that one moment of obedience led him into a whole nother journey. Money. We pray God's will wuld be done in his life. I mean, he answered the call, he stepped up, and God is faithful. And I pray that magnificent things would occur that only would come from God, that God would not be overshadowed in any part whatsoever, that this man's heart would be a

45:54 light, you know, this light that we're talking about, into a dark world, and that to he, you know, I trust that he's God's man for the season here. I really believe that. I believe it too, Bill, And that's the power. You know. I wrote these crazy stories in my book about hearing a word from God for elected official on an airplane, or showing up at a Bato or Rourke rally to pray for him. You know, someone that's not in my party that I associated with, you know, having moments where I walked beside a terminally ill member of Congress before he was elected and got helped get him elected to Washington. So you know, there's moments we all have to choose to be obedient, and what God does in that obedience its exponential in the lives of the people around us.

46:46 And that's why I wrote this book and why we're helping get Christians engaged. Bill. Well, like you say it, you know, these stories may seem crazy, but that's because you're trusting God, and because people know on the surface, I mean, who would go and throw a party for an opponent that you were struggling with to help him clear up his election liabilities? Only someone who could manifest the love of God. And I got to imagine this man's life was greatly affected by that. I don't know how you have that happen to you and not think you know, if that doesn't alter your worldview in any way, I don't know what will. Well, we text and we call, and I had breakfast with him in DC when I was there in July, and again he has been overly gracious to push this encourage, this book to people because he believes these are the kind of stories that people need to hear that we can operate different than the political spirit.

47:52 We can do politics without the political spirit, meaning we don't have to do it the way the world does it. We can do it in the nature of Christ. And that's what we want to encourage people and hold them accountable with to be real Christ followers as they're engaging in politics and government well money. Like you, I've always been interested in politics, but I'm very disappointed on where politics stands today. It is. It is hard, it's hurtful, it is certainly is not what God intended for us to have because you know, as they say, you know, good politics makes for good policy, and we're not getting good policy these days. So politics is sick right now, and it's going to take people of faith to heal it. I believe it cannot be done out of the Beltway because you're asking you're you're asking brain surgeons to do brain surgery on themselves. Essentially. Right, we got about a minute left. I'm gonna let you, Bunny, summarize, summarize that statement, summarize where we are and what you want people to get from your book, and also where they can go for more information. How's that for about five questions all in one time. Yeah. Go to christians Engage dot org. Take the pledge to pray, vote and engage and start on a journey for Engaging for America, and pre order Jesus and Politics wherever you get your books. I heard that Barnes and Noble and Books a Million got

49:22 an order early, so if you want that before it actually releases February sixth, order pre order or get it now on Barnes and Noble and Books a Million. But wherever you get your books, you can order that book. Well, Bunny Pounds, it's been our guest. She's the founder and president of Christians Engaged, which seeks to awake and educate and empower Christians to pray, vote, and engage regularly in efforts to improve the nation's well being. And again in getting involved and engaging with with the organization Christians Engaged. You will walk them through how they can through the program and how they can be engaged and be effective at a local, at a regional, even a national level, if that's to be God's will, because as Jesus told us, where to take the gospel message from Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria and the othermost parts of the world. Right Amen, Thank you Bill for all you do, and let's get the church awakened and educated and empowered in this moment.

50:31 I'm with you, Bunny. You take care, God blessed. Thank you so much. Bunny Pouns has been our guests. We're so grateful for Bunny for being with us, and thank you for sharing a part of your day. Hopefully this is blessed you has encouraged you, enlarged you, and motivated you to check this out for yourself. May God bless you and keep you, May make His face shine upon you. May He be gracious unto you and give you peace. Thank you so much for being with a scud. Bless h