Jenna Ellis Turns on Trump. Can She Help the Dems Put Trump Behind Bars?

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four CY Radio. Well, welcome
to Bill Martinez Live. Glad you could

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join us and share a part of
your day with us. We're going to

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be talking about Jenna Ellis. Boy, the mainstream media went nuts. It

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looked like, well, you know, Jenna Ellis Donald Trump's attorney. Now,

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is she turning on Trump? Can
she help the dams put Trump behind

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bars? Those are the questions.
Well. John O'Connor, the author of

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Postgate, How the Washington Post Betrayed
Deep Throat, covered up Watergate and began

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today's partisan advocacy journalism, and host
of the Mysteries of Watergate podcast. He

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served as an assistant US attorney in
northern California, representing the United States in

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both criminal and civil cases. He's
talking objectively about how Jenna Ellis becoming the

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latest Trump lawyer to plead guilty over
efforts to overturn George's election could impact Trump's

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case. And now there are two
former Trump attorneys and Sidney Powell, who

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has struck deals with the prosecutor.
John O'Connor, welcome to the show.

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Good to have you with us,
Great bill, good to be with you.

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Well, I'll tell you the left
was going not say that, Okay,

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this is it. I mean,
they're already chomping at the bit.

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They just cannot wait to see Donald
Trump behind bars. Well, that's certainly

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the case that they can't wait to
see that. I don't think that Jenna

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Ellis has anything to do with that
process because the unique nature of her plea,

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and like the other defendants who have
pled it, sort of circles around

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the main issues in the case.
That is to say, did Donald Trump

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really think that he had lost the
election and was just bsing and telling falsehoods.

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I think anyone with an ounce of
sense on one side or the other

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would say one thing about Trump is
he was certainly rabbit in his beliefs he

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had been defrauded. I don't see
how anybody could think otherwise. Now,

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the left might say, boy,
he was deluding himself, and the right

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might say, well, gee,
he had good reason to be concerned.

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But that doesn't make a difference.
The fact is both sides acknowledged that Trump

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really thought he had the election stolen
out from under him and thinks that way

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today. So that's the main burden
of the prosecution in this case, a

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very sprawl indictment. So let me
talk Bill if I can, about he

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was just a second John for just
a moment here. I just want to

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you know, you've got a majority
of the country who believes, like Donald

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Trump does, that there were shenanigans
in the election. Okay, a majority.

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Now, the question still remains.
Just because talk show hosts or talking

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heads from a newscast tell you that
it's quote unquote the big lie, well

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what happens if it becomes the big
truth? Because how many things did they

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accuse Donald Trump of lying about that
afterwards was the truth and not a lie?

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Are we waiting, you know,
for that shoe to drop or you

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know, like any other you know, any other story like Danisha Susa says,

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the one thing about cons is they
always stick to the con nobody's I

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mean, it's not like all of
a sudden the left is going to get

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a conscience. So we're going to
find out who orchestrated, you know,

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the twenty twenty election. There had
to be a small group that was involved

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to orchestrate what happened where you could
have what five or six counting facilities shut

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down at the same time for about
the same amount of time. I mean,

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somebody orchestrated that, John, but
the left is not interested in finding

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out who did that. Well,
you've got a good point there. If

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you go to any prison in the
United States, you will find that everyone

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there, or maybe eighty percent of
the people there in those prisons will steadfastly

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deny their guilt and they've been set
up in some fashion. And I think

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that's true of the left in this
case. I mean, it's one thing

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for people on the left who like
Biden to say, look, this was

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a COVID election. There were things
wrong with it. We acknowledged that,

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but this is what we're left with. This was a bad election, but

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it's the best we could do.
Let's move on. That's a principal deposition,

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all right. It is not a
principal position to say that this is

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the most secure election in our history. The facts just are too extreme.

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And let me give you one,
because we're talking about Georgia here, Bill,

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Right, in the last election before
the twenty twenty I think it's twenty

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eighteen whatever it was, in Georgia, six point two percent of mail in

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ballots were invalidated for formal deficiencies.
It might be signatures, it might be

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overvoting, undervoting, no external envelope, but six point two percent. Now,

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it's expected that in an urban area
you're going to have more than that,

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especially when there are a flood of
new voters who are not familiar with

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the situation, normally apsity voters or
elderly or people who are on business trips

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and so forth. Now we're going
to get this new influx of voters.

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In Atlantic magazine acknowledged that on October
thirty, twenty twenty, when they talked

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about through their expert at the Brookings
Institution, that there was clearly going to

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be a climb an increase in invalidated
mail in ballots. So what happened to

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our six point two percent in Fulton
County, Georgia. The percentage was not

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six point two percent or higher as
predicted. It was point zero five percent.

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Wow, it was one hundred and
forty eighth of the historical amounts of

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disqualified ballots. One one hundred and
forty eighth. Now, some of that

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comes because Stacy Abrams dragooned Brad Rathsenberger, the Secretary of State, to heighten

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the way you can discard signatures,
which is a terrible thing for Rapsenburger to

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do. But nonetheless, that's an
incredibly low number of discounted ballots at a

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time when there's all sorts of evidence
that there was tremendous vote harvesting and tremendous

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increases in mail in voting and so
forth and on. So that doesn't prove

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it enough for a judge. If
I'm sitting there, I'm going to say,

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as a judge, I'm going to
say, well, I can't overturn

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the election on this. Sure it
looks bad to me, but I can't

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do it. That's why we need
safety at the ballot box, precisely because

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judges are not there to relitigate an
election exactly. But now, and there

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may be one exception for the Wisconsin
challenge, which was very clean, but

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most of them are not clean.
Most of them. You can only grant

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the relief sought if you were to
find as a judge that as to what

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the vote count actually is, and
you can't do that. You'd have to

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call a million witnesses. So let's
get back to what Jenna Ellis is pleading

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guilty to. Jenna Ellis had a
meeting, attended a meeting with other Trump

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representatives like Rudy Giuliani, in which
they were pitching the Georgia State Senate to

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disavow the election, to say that
it's up for grabs and maybe this then

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goes to the Georgia House, but
at least there would not be certified slate

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that goes to Congress and so forth
and so so. Uh, that's that

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was the situation they were pitching the
Georgia Senate. Now, Jenna Ellis sat

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there while other people there said that
there were thousands of felons, underage voters

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or dead people that voted in Georgia. That I think probably they thought whoever

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came up with that probably thought there
was an inference to that effect. But

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in my view, it appears to
be rank speculation that somebody just came up

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with those figures based on some way
of looking at this thing, because I

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don't think there was any direct proof
of those numbers. So somebody put those

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numbers out there. Okay, the
Georgia Senate turned them down. It had

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no impact on the election. But
Jenna Ellen did not come up with those

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numbers. Now, she pled guilty
because she was facing a million bucks in

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legal fees and potential dispartment as well
as jail time. And the poor girl

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was a thirty four year old young
lawyer who had practiced basic insurance defense litigation.

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She was out of water here and
is a nice young lady who was

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trying hard to be part of the
team. So she sat there during this

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thing. She pleaded guilty to eighty
in a bedding those false statements. Well

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technically she did. She came into
the meeting, she was there. She

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didn't disagree. She probably nodded her
head and so, and she said in

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her plea, I should have done
more to check out these numbers. I

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agree with that. I mean,
as a lawyer, I don't like to

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make allegations in a court of law
or in a formal proceeding unless I have

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a basis for it. Okay,
hang on one second, let me real

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quick, John, So what is
this telling attorneys in the future that,

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in any kind of meeting, especially
if it's a political meeting, that you

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need to make some sort of pronounce
and some sort of disclaimer that says,

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I am here listening, I am
taking information, I'm here to advise,

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advise the president or the leader,
and so that you have some sort of

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out on this deal. Because it
seems that she was there in the company

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and like you say, she may
have nodded, may not, maybe by

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her own admission in retrospect, you
know, said well maybe she could have

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done more. So what does more
look like? Well, it's silly.

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In this case, it's an extreme
example of prosecuting this thing. I mean,

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technically you can prosecute this. So
I'm not objecting to that. I'm

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just saying that every day right now, they're probably a thousand right as we're

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sitting here, there are a thousand
lawyers pitching a government agency to their belief

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in the facts of a case,
and in many cases those facts just are

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not supported. People don't get prosecuted
for that. I was an assistant US

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attorney, both in civil and criminal
matters. People would come to my office

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and say, John, we have
to change this government program, or my

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client is innocent because of X.
And sometimes those facts are just made out

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of whole cloth. And we know
that we're lawyers. That's what lawsuits are

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about. Somebody is not correct,
somebody has the facts wrong. So this

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is a one off. Normally,
you don't prosecute somebody. I want people

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to come to my office and make
their pitch when I'm working for the government.

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And then later on I worked for
the various FDIC and the government agencies,

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and the same thing happened. People
would come in and say why their

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loan was really correct and they didn't
they didn't fudge on their disclosures to the

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bank, and so and so on't
prosecute people or try to prosecute I would

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not even think about that because now
what are we doing. The whole process

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is now bound up. You want
to have to give people freedom to make

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their allegation. So you are correct, Bil, this is an extreme application

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of the false statement to a government. Okay, now, having said that,

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having said that, if you look
at it, if you file a

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pleading. In a court, especially
a federal court, you have what they

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call rule eleven obligations, which is, you've got to make sure that what

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you're saying has some basis in fact. But when you violate rule eleven and

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you put in an allegation that turns
out to be phony and you didn't support

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it, you don't go to jail. The judge will sometimes say, okay,

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o Connor, I'm going to let
you go this time. If the

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court is upset with you, you
get a ten thousand dollars fine or something

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like that, a five thousand dollars
fine, So you don't go to jail.

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Okay. So but let's put that
aside because they have the right.

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I'm not challenging their right to say
this is a false statement to a government

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agency. She ate it in a
bedit. But remember what she said was

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she didn't know that those things were
false. She didn't think they were false.

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She thought they were true. What
she pled guilty to and they accepted

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it was I didn't do my due
diligence. I'm not in checking those facts

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out. I'm not so sure she
was obligated to, but it was a

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good thing to plead to. Now
she went to trial, the jury would

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have to find her knowingly violating a
law, knowingly with criminal intemp I think

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she would have been acquitted of that
charge. Well, how many millions of

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dollars would it cost her to get
to that point exactly? Now she skates.

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The poor girl is packed on about
thirty pounds, out of stress.

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Her cortisol is obviously out of whack. You look at the pictures of the

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poor young lady, and I feel
sorry for she doesn't have a lot of

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money. She's looking at a million
bucks if she gets convicted, which this

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jury could easily do in the massive
amount of evidence that's going to come over

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the transom. And now she's in
jail for a couple of years, she's

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disbarred, she's broke. Maybe she
doesn't even get her fees discharged in bankruptcy,

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her fine discharged in bankruptcy because it
might be moral turpitude in that sort

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of thing. So she faced an
unsuperable burden on her. She got out.

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But if she comes into court and
tells exactly what she pleaded guilty to,

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it's not going to have an ounce
of problems for Trump. And I

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think Trump's lawyers see that. Now, let me hedge. Now that she's

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pleaded, though she has no Fifth
Amendment rights, therefore the government can And

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she said she'll testify, and she
has to anyway because she has no Fifth

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Amendment reason not to testify, right, So now they can come in and

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question her. So the million dollar
issue at that point is does she have

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anything to say, you know,
beyond what she pleaded guilty to. And

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I don't think she's going to.
I don't think this is a person who

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says, oh, yes, we
plotted to defraud all these states. These

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were true believers. She's a nice, like I say, a nice young

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lady. So what I look at
this is is this plea indicates the weakness

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of the case when you start accepting
please to peripheral charges that are meaningless,

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that don't get to the heart of
this, and give people five thousand dollars

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fines in probation. In two of
the four please they were misdemeanors, which

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is very close to a traffic ticket. Two of them were felonies. Chesburrow

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and Ellis pled to felonies, but
the things they pled to were so vanilla

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it's ridiculous. I mean, Chesboro
pled guilty to putting forth an alternative slate

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of electors, which is what one
does to challenge an election. Exactly Now,

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once again, he didn't think he
was doing something illegal, but he

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pleaded to it to get out of
this thing, to make it go away.

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Yeah, in others, Phil he
knew as and everyone else knew that

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he was not claiming that these electors
were actually the slate of electors if you

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counted the votes that these electors would
be if you counted all the votes as

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they were counted, that this was
an alternative slate in the event that someone

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decided that the results were too weak, here's the alternative slate. So he

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always he never said anything but that
this was an alternative state. But it's

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a good thing to plead to because
when he goes before the bar trying to

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stay in the bar, he's going
to say, look, here's what I

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did, and the bar associations can
say this didn't anything. This is not

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a crime moralterpetude. As a matter
of fact, I don't think it's a

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crime, exactly So. And then
Sidney Powell pleaded guilty to accessing voter information

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in Coffee County and perhaps some other
places. Without authority. In other words,

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you had to have authority from Brad
Rathsenberger to get this information. She

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didn't have it. She was representing
the president, and we have a federal

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system, so you have to go
through the state. They're not authorized to

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get the information. Coffee County wanted
to give it to Trump, they just

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didn't go through the right hurdles to
do it, you know, And so

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they said, oh listen. In
fact, I think they called the Trump

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campaign and said, hey, we've
got some stuff. We'll give you our

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voting information. And it meant nothing. It turned out Coffee County ran their

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elections right anyway. But that's the
kind of stuff that they're pleading guilty to,

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and it's nothing in this. Brad
Hall, the businessman, pleaded guilty

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of the same thing. He ended
up helping him scan information from Coffee County.

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So what we've got is we've got
a really a potempted village of a

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case. It looks shiny on the
outside, but once you get beyond it,

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there's nothing there. Well. And
it's so unfortunate, John, because

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what this has done to public sentiment, and it really has divided the country

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all the more, and it has
made politics so distasteful. I mean,

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this democratic republic, it owns its
existence on the backs of we the people.

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If we the people check out,
then goodbye to this constitutional republic.

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Well, that's right. And the
thing, our constitutional republic thrives on discussion

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and debate. That's the only way
we in the democracy can get information.

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First of all, to have an
unbiased media that gives us the factual information,

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and secondly that we discuss in debate. But what these lawsuits are doing,

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and these charges are doing, they're
criminalizing the whole process of discussion and

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debate. Debates throughout our country's history
have often had wild allegations that are thrown

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out, you know, starting with
you know, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson

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back in eighteen hundred. This is
what happens. People come up with all

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these theories and so forth and so
on, and that's part of the democratic

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process. We want people to air
their grievances. We want people to discuss

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and debate, and that's what our
Constitution's about. The hope is is that

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in the end, truth will emerge
and falsehoods get set aside as they're debated.

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But now what's happening is we're getting
penalized. The January sixth Committee talks

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about to quote the big lie,
and anybody supposedly is telling the big lie

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who breathes a word that this election
is not perfect. Well, it wasn't

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perfect, and it's irresponsible. My
problem with Liz Cheney is not that she

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thought Trump acted poorly. That's certainly
her right. But what is not her

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right is to say that all these
people fifty six percent of the population,

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by the way, think that there
was something wrong with the election. Are

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they all lying? I don't think
so. I think they're looking as jurors

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of public opinion, the jury of
public opinion. They're looking at the facts

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as they see them. They and
they say, based on these facts,

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it looks to us like something smells
here, something's rotten in Denmark exactly.

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And that's what this is all about. Now, well, the problem,

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the problem is, though John about
a lie, it doesn't go away.

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It irritates people. It's like,
you know, I tell people all the

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time, it's like you know,
when your little kid, you know,

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lies to you. You know he's
lying. They know they're lying. It's

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just it's hard to sleep at night
until you finally address it. And finally

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clears up right, Uh, that
that happens in households every day, even

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as you and I are talking right
now, that that's just happens. But

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in a in a political environment like
this, the lie is still there.

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You can hide it, you can
obfuscate it, do whatever you want to

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do. It's still there. And
what what these politicians don't understand, or

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even criminals for that matter, is
that eventually it catches up to you.

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And when it does, it's much
more and much more complicated, it's much

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more expensive, and uh, your
credibility is destroyed in the process. And

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uh, you know, they're playing
a very serious game here. And I

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think that you know, what you
touched on earlier is also important, John,

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and that is that in the past, especially with you know, political

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debate, in that the courts and
the tradition has been to you know,

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let's let's you know, let's treat
this sensitively. Let's not get into a

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situation where we're looking like we're going
after our political opponents. If we go

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down that road, that's not good. Hillary Clinton suggested as much in twenty

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sixteen, and here it was.
All it took was four years later.

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And this is exactly what's happened.
We've gone down that road and it is

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a dark, ugly hole, and
I don't know how we get out of

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this. John Well, this is
my pitch. This is why I wrote

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Postgate, the book Postgate, because
I see that the media is not being

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square with us. And if the
media is square and trying to get to

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the truth, yes you're going to
get some lies that are out there momentarily,

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but eventually things get worked out.
And that's what John Stuart Mill talked

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about in on Liberty. He said
basically, more discussion and debate you have,

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the more the truth wins, right, But also quote Winston Churchill who

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said a lie gets halfway aroay around
the world before truth gets his pants on.

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It's on the exactly. And that's
that's what we've got now. And

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it's important to have this discussion.
I mean, we have to hold on

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to that, as uncomfortable and as
frustrating as it can be, we must

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hold on to that time honored process
to have an open debate. If you

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close off the debate, you do
so at the expense of democracy. That's

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right, and and it really it
really hurts the whole body politic when that

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happens, yes, and so what
we're doing, and it's all sort of

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part of, part and parcel of
cancel culture. In most authoritarian states,

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you try to have a one party
press that pushes a propaganda and and tries

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to punish those who don't go along
with the propaganda. Exact, that's sort

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of what we've got. We've got
a press that is not going to say

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is not really here to engage in
a fulsome debate. For example, right

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now, if I were to come
up with facts, tell a reporter by

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the way, I've been looking at
this climate change, and I've looked at

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the recent research I look at which
I follow, and it looks to me

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like the amplification that's supposedly there from
carbon dioxide is not really there. It's

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very mild. And therefore, I
don't think we need to spend trillions of

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dollars on climate change. I think
it's an issue. Please, let's look

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at these different findings by the various
scientists that I could cite to you.

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Look at these findings, look at
these studies. Now, if I did

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that, tried to do that,
first of all, they wouldn't publish me.

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And secondly, if I did say
something to somebody like to Bill Martinez,

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and it became widely known. I
would be known as a climate denier,

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rather than somebody saying, Oh,
here's what I say about what O'Connor

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says, and here's why I think
he's mistaken. He's mistaken because he's reading

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these studies wrongly. He should look
at this other study and it really kind

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of talks better about what really is
happening up there in the top of the

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atmosphere. That's fine, and Andy, I don't mind being wrong, but

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I would like to know if I'm
wrong. I mean exactly me, if

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I put forward my views of the
climate, white can't somebody just engage with

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me? But you can't do your
climate denier. And I'll tell you how

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bad it is. Bill. When
I write my book Postgate, it's about

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how the Post defrauded readers into and
defraud of the country into getting rid of

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Richard Nixon on false information. Now
you would think that would be something My

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thesis would be something that if I'm
wrong, I should be debated. I'm

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happy to have that debate. What
happens the very nature of it is such

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that people are trying to cancel that
message precisely because they know I'm right,

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Yeah, exactly. Well, well
the deal is going back to what you

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were talking about earlier in terms of
climate denying. Is that? And when

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I was s having this conversation with
an investigative reporter with the Epic Times,

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I said, the problem you've got
is you get you get these government paid

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scientists, all right, Uh,
they know which side, you know,

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their bread is buttered on. And
so the government, fauci says, or

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whoever it is, who's ever you
know, you know, ever's in charge

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of uh you know, for the
climate, and and they they go out

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and they buy these research papers,
and so it is prejudice. But those

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research papers, John was so frustrating
to me. I wish they could come

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with a disclaimer saying this was sponsored
by the US government, by who it

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was, and the other associated parties
that sponsored and paid for this research.

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So then when it's quoted, people
know what's the level of veracity? Are

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they really being objective or just you
know, because they're using our money,

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taxpayers money to pay for this propaganda, and then they present it as a

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matter of fact, so that when
John O'Connor or Bill Martinez comes in and

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what do we know. We're just
a couple of idiots that are in search

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of the truth. And we talked
to some other scientists that are not bought

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and sold, they're not beholden to
the government or some three letter agency,

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and they say, hey, here's
the information straight up. You know,

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follow the science. You know it's
right there. And you go, wow,

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that doesn't reconcile with what al Gore
and his compadres are saying. Well,

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you know, well that shuts us
down because now we're climate deniers because

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we're in pursuit of the truth and
we don't want to insult our constituents.

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Well, right, and I'll give
you one better. It is true that

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these scientists are on the government goal
and they're encouraged to go one way and

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try to go out of their way
to ferret out evidence of the hypothesis.

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But I'll give you one better.
They're not encouraged, they're compelled to do

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so. If they don't, they're
not going to get another research paper.

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Well that's right, but here's what
I'm telling you. They're trying their best,

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but most of them are fairly honest
about what they report, even if

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they fudge things and try to put
in fudge factors into their equations. Oh,

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we must not have taken into account
aerosols. That's why our model doesn't

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quite fit. But here's another thing
that people don't publish is that when you

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get an IPCC, that's the United
Nations Climate Panel, when they published their

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summary for policy makers, that's something
that is a bunch of politicians putting together

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that isn't the scientists. So the
scientists sometimes come up with findings that are

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direct opposite of what the political people
in the United Nations say. So this

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happened in nineteen ninety five, for
example, when the scientists came up with

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the conclusion that there was yet no
evidence that man made causes were causing any

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kind of substantial temperature increase. What
happens is when the IPCC, ninety days

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later put out and those summaries were
not available to the public. Then the

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IPCC digests them, they come out
with their statement before the science tific papers

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are out there, and they say
just the opposite in their summary. So

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everybody says, oh my gosh,
this guy is falling. Well, in

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fact, they're saying something that the
scientific papers don't say. And so there's

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that added aspect to it, and
it's not just the fact that there are

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and there are. You correctly point
out that these younger people are paid to

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try to get the right results and
doing everything they can to try to explain

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why there really is climate change.
But having said that, it is really

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more the political side of this that
is driving the agenda. And what's worse

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is all these major media have climate
reporters that never report on this basic issue

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exactly what is the client, what
are the issues that are alive out there?

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And there are some very very live
and very well regarded research that now

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puts the potential rise in temperatures way
down below what they were at the beginning

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when al Gore first started shooting his
mouth. That's the state to the science

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00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.279
right now that it looks like it's
not for sure, but it looks like

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the effect is very mild of carbon
dioxide, and it's getting milder as we

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increase the carbon because it's getting saturated. Its effect is saturated. I say,

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it's like having so many myths outside
the left field wall at Wrigley Field

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00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.079
in Chicago when people are out hitting
their club their gloves for batting practice,

385
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.319
and at a certain point adding another
mit does not get you any more balls

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00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:37.680
caught. And at a certain point
you can add carbon dioxide. And because

387
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:44.599
it only responds to fourteen micron waves, at some point all the fourteen micron

388
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.119
waves are going to be caught,
so to speak, by the molecules,

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and that's going to be it.
So carbon dioxide is of limited utility in

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00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:00.559
causing warming and limited cause, and
therefore we may be changing our our entire

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society, weakening ourselves on national security. We enriched Russia and Iran by raising

392
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:14.759
the price of oil for Biden's climate
agenda, and now we are we not

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00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:17.519
only are punishing our people at home
with high prices, we're punishing industry with

394
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:22.720
high gas prices. We are also
helping our most tated enemies ninety billion a

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00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:30.960
year to Vladimir Putin extra and ninety
billion a year extra to the Iranians.

396
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.440
I was going to say, yeah, the Molas are loving, They're loving

397
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.960
Joe Biden. Are you kidding me? Oh? Yeah? And then you

398
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:43.160
couple that with the weakness that we've
shown in trying to get an Iran nuclear

399
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.720
deal, which we are so weak
in our negotiations. We asked Russia to

400
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:53.559
help us so Russia is actually our
mediator in helping Iran get a nuclear weapon.

401
00:32:53.960 --> 00:33:00.799
How crazy are we right now?
We bring Russia into negotiation with Iran,

402
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:04.519
one of the key sponsors of terrorism. Oh yeah, By the way,

403
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.200
we got a little war going going
on in Israel and the Gaza,

404
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:16.079
and then here we are supporting Ukraine
in a fight against Russia. I mean,

405
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:22.720
we're really as a as a human
condition, John O'Connor, We're a

406
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.359
mess. Well, right. One
of the things that's happening right now that

407
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:31.400
nobody reports on is Iran is providing
drones to Russia to kill people. And

408
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:37.400
it's again that the American people are
trying to support the Ukrainians, and Russia,

409
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.440
of course is helping Iran and so
forth and so on. And they're

410
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.920
in Syria helping out the Syrians,
which are really a proxies for Iran.

411
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:51.799
So it's very silly. And of
course China is in on the deal too,

412
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.880
and all this we are helping our
enemies. We are helping our enemies

413
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.519
and hurting our friends. And I
don't care how many tough statements Biden makes

414
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:10.159
in the daylight about standing with Israel, because in the nighttime, under the

415
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.599
cover of darkness. He's really helping
Israel's enemies and our enemies exactly. Well,

416
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.239
it concerns me when you have Joe
Biden as the commander in chief,

417
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:25.440
you know, and he's trying to
orchestrate and get his fingers involved with what's

418
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:31.400
going on with Israel's business. If
I was in israeli i'd been as an

419
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:39.480
American the idea that we are on
a foothold of two wars right now with

420
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:45.599
Israel and Hamas and Hezballah, and
I mean could go regional and we could

421
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:50.519
end up igniting World War three here
as you mentioned, with Russia getting involved,

422
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.840
China's involvement as well, what they're
doing there in the South China Sea,

423
00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:00.360
and with Tsaiwan licking their chops.
And you got to know already said

424
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.840
look at we're going after Taiwan.
He's told his military get ready by twenty

425
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.440
twenty seven, we're going to own
Taiwan. So you know, all this

426
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:15.800
is on the brink, and we've
got Joe Biden as the commander in chief.

427
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:17.840
It scares the Holywood, Have you
out of me? Well, that's

428
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.599
right, And of course, about
eighty percent of our most sophisticated chips are

429
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:28.440
made in Taiwan, right, and
they fuel our ai industry and cloud storage

430
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:32.199
and all our most sensitive military applications. China gets their hands on those chips

431
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:37.400
and deprives us of those chips,
We're in a world of hurt and yet,

432
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:45.840
and are we able, especially without
energy independence, are we able to

433
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:51.679
fight a two war, two front
war, that is to say, one

434
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.719
in the Far East and one in
the Middle East. I don't think so.

435
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:00.960
And I think Joe Biden has already
told the enemy we're running out of

436
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:06.360
AMMO. And look what's happening with
China's navy. I think China's navy has

437
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.000
expanded what ten times what in the
last decade or so. I mean,

438
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.280
they're are aggressively expanding there. Clearly
their ships are not quite as sophisticated as

439
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:22.480
America, but nonetheless just in sheer
numbers. Look what they're doing. Well,

440
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.599
we're over spending bill. We're probably
wastefully spending about a trillion a year

441
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:32.960
for sure, based on Biden's inflation, mainly caused by fuel. And we're

442
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.760
sending the money to our enemies,
but we're spending more of it. So

443
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:43.519
rather than having that money to protect
ourselves, we're spending it on buying gasoline

444
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:46.960
and so forth and so on,
So it would be really nice if we

445
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:54.320
could spend money on fortifying our national
security, also keeping our country out of

446
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:02.719
ridiculous, existentially threatening debt. Happens, we're now paying three hundred percent of

447
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.519
the T bill rate then we were
paying when Trump left office, So now

448
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:14.000
we're paying three times as much for
our national debt in interest payments, besides

449
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:19.679
all the payments we're making on a
daily basis for fuel and those things that

450
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:25.159
are made with fuel, which is
everything. And so we're in trouble mainly

451
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:29.760
because of these heedless things. But
what I get down to, Bill,

452
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.719
and you and I are really talking
about this and we're sort of dancing around

453
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:39.239
it, is there the people who
are supposed to be giving us information are

454
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:45.599
not giving us this. A high
school junior who took basic economics would say,

455
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:51.360
well, if there's inelastic demand for
oil and you artificially constrict the supply,

456
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.679
won't prices shoot up dramatically like a
hockey stick. And the answer that

457
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:59.639
a junior in high school would tell
you is yes, of course. That

458
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.119
that's you can answer that question is
still get a see on your paper,

459
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.639
because that one is so easy,
right, and what no one in the

460
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:12.480
press has said that to the public. By the way, if Biden does

461
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:20.599
this, this is what's going to
happen now. So that's what really bothers

462
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.440
me, is the lack of information
that's getting to our citizens and voters.

463
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:30.239
But the thing is that what happens
so John, the people get it because

464
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.800
they go to the gas station,
they're paying the price. They go and

465
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:37.320
buy groceries, they get the price. You get all these and you know,

466
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:42.840
you say, these supposedly high minded
officials of the government, and they

467
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.320
want to tell you why biden nomics
is working when they know, you know,

468
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:52.239
everyday people three hundred and forty five
million Americans that make up this country

469
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.559
of ours, they know firsthand it's
not working. It is. It is

470
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:01.320
a mess. So it just really
makes the main stream media and other purveyors

471
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.719
of information who are supposed to be
looking out for our benefit, it makes

472
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:10.400
them look all the worse because they're
not delivering the facts of the people.

473
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.440
But the people themselves have to find
a way to decouple from this government,

474
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:20.119
and you know, to wait another
two years for god only knows what else

475
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:24.320
and what other damage Joe Biden can
do is too much. And so I

476
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:28.119
have been saying, I think you
and I've talked about it before, that

477
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.480
at a local level, things can
change quite rapidly, and we've got to

478
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:35.280
do something. You've got to get
off the couch. You cannot just sit

479
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.400
there and just let this happen to
you, because we're on the other end.

480
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:43.599
You and I've been warning people John
forever that we're the America's been at

481
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.000
a tipping point. But I've been
saying recently, we're beyond that tipping point,

482
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:50.599
because what happens when you're beyond that
tipping point, things move faster.

483
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:55.719
Look at the rapidity of things that
are happening political and all things within our

484
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.119
country and around the world. They
have sped up exponential And the reason they

485
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:05.840
have is because we're on the down
side of the mountain, heading fast and

486
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:09.280
getting ready to crash and burn.
And so you know, if we just

487
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:13.239
sit there and just let it happen
to us, well, then shame on

488
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.679
us. What kind of America are
we turning over to our kids and grandkids.

489
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.840
Well, you can see it right
now that the young people are getting

490
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:27.840
tremendously distressed and anxious. Some of
that is because they've been fed fear and

491
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:31.679
distressed more than practical thinking. They've
been lied to, John, and they're

492
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.719
finding out they've been lied to.
I mean, what would you how would

493
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.679
you feel spending you know, Okay, I'm a quarter million dollars in debt

494
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.199
for this, you know, piece
of paper and this education. I was

495
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:44.760
promised I was going to have such
a great job, six figure job,

496
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:46.800
you know, coming out you know, all that in a bag of chips.

497
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.079
And they're going out in the world
and finding out, well, that's

498
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.440
not exactly the case. Well that
that has a tendency to depress people.

499
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:57.199
Well, but I don't think a
lot of these young people even realize they've

500
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.480
been lied to. They believe,
for instance, the climate change they see,

501
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.880
but they do, to your point, do see a dark future that

502
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:08.440
they correctly see. And so these
people are not having kids. They have

503
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:15.320
tremendous anxieties and depression. There's a
raft of suicides, all sorts of depression

504
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:22.440
and anxiety. Kids are on meds, They're doing all sorts of self destructive

505
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:29.639
things. It's a very unhappy younger
generation here, and with good reason.

506
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:36.039
And some of it is the things
that are fed these people in college,

507
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.119
and they're not taught to critically think
and to address issues. And if you're

508
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:44.920
thought, if you if you're trained
to critically think, you can get rid

509
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:47.159
of some of your worries because you
can confront things and say, no,

510
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:52.039
this is true. I don't think
the I don't think the world is ending

511
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:59.159
with climate change and so forth and
so on. But we have done terrible

512
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:04.320
things to the younger generation. But
more importantly, we've done terrible things to

513
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:08.360
our country. Yes, we really
are on the precipice. I just wish

514
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:14.679
it weren't so I'm too old to
have this happen, you know, And

515
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:16.599
sometimes I think, well, maybe
it's good that I'm old because I'm out

516
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:20.679
of here soon. But no,
but I think, but I think you

517
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.280
and I are in a similar situation, John, is that we're in a

518
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:27.039
position to encourage people. And you
know, because you know what drives me

519
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.800
no sometimes and I'll tell you it
drives me. That's in as much as

520
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:32.639
that you know, I'll read in
the Bible about how judgment will come,

521
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:36.480
you know, to a king.
You know, a prophet will come to

522
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:39.159
the king and say God's going to
judge you. But by the way,

523
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:43.039
it's not going to happen in your
lifetime. It'll be in your kid's lifetime.

524
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.119
And you read right after that where
the King says, well, okay,

525
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:47.519
I guess that's okay, because its
not going to happen while I'm alive.

526
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.480
You know. I mean to me, what a cop out? You

527
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.920
know. I think that you and
I are here at this point in time

528
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:01.800
to encourage this next generation to whatever
we have left in us, to fight

529
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:06.280
for this great American experiment that you
and I grew up under, that we

530
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.679
were blessed by. And I believe
that America's better days lie ahead, but

531
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:16.599
it lies ahead in a in a
revival of sorts that will return this country

532
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:22.480
back to the first principles that it
embraced when it first became this great American

533
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:27.559
idea. Well, I think it's
not too late, but it's getting close

534
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.119
to too late. And I agree
with you on that. If we have

535
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:34.400
to go through four more years of
this, I don't I think it will

536
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.599
be too late too. That's why
I think we do now. We have

537
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.639
to do. We can't wait two
years from now. We need to decouple,

538
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.280
you know, from all It's like
one church. I heard about this

539
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:49.880
church that they got John, during
COVID, the government sent them you know,

540
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:53.239
uh, several millions of dollars.
Well, who is going to not

541
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:58.719
take a check from the government and
say, okay, But this church was

542
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.519
smart enough to realize is the ties
that bind? And they sent the check

543
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:06.840
back. And so my question was
to all the other churches, how many

544
00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:13.039
of you cash the check or did
you send it back? Yeah, that's

545
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:21.760
it, that's the problem it.
You know, government makes us take these

546
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.679
things. And this is of course
what happened with the Obamacare deal. We

547
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:31.800
bribe states to take the near term
benefit and then put ourselves in a hole.

548
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:35.840
So we're in a hole in so
many places. And then of course

549
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:39.239
don't we should not even get started
about the border. And I'm just going

550
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:45.719
to say that that involves so we've
got that problem. And you know,

551
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:51.960
now where it's not just a dependent
poor Hispanic people that are coming over who

552
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.920
are actually good workers and so forth, and there's some argument to be made

553
00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:00.679
for them. But when you start
getting terrorists coming cross from other countries,

554
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:07.519
which are clearly it's clearly happening there
and would be terrorists too, John,

555
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.880
because these people maybe nice people,
you know, but when you're beholden to

556
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:15.320
the cartel, and the cartel slaps
a bracelet on your wrist and says,

557
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:20.960
this is your occupation, this is
your identity and your job when you're in

558
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.920
America, because if you don't do
that, we know where you live and

559
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:30.119
we know where your parents are and
we will kill them. Well, that's

560
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:35.719
right, that's right. So we
have we have serious problems here and we

561
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.960
don't we are discounting now the fact
that there could be some major terrorists actions

562
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.719
in the United States. Yes,
nine to eleven. Most of the time,

563
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:52.159
our country has avoided the nine to
elevens with good counter intelligence, and

564
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:57.599
the public doesn't realize how many times
we've avoided these things. But I think

565
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:02.039
with the RAMS money and with Russia's
money, and with China's money, and

566
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:08.920
China has clearly infiltrated our government,
no doubt. Iran. Now, people

567
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:14.559
forget that Joe Biden had this guy, Rob Mayley or Malley Mali, Yeah,

568
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:20.320
right, exactly what he was a
clear pro Iranian guy, and he

569
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:24.280
had his fellow pro Iranians and they
burrowed their way into government and are doing

570
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:28.360
all these things. By the way, they're still working. By the way,

571
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:31.320
they're still in the government. Is
three amigos. That's right, that's

572
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:34.400
right, that's right. Now.
Now, those are the kind of people

573
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:40.719
we've hired. If you hark back
to the Russian collusion investigation, there were

574
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:49.760
clear government agents on name one Olga
Galkina that she bragged to her people that

575
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:55.440
once Hillary won, she had this
good job with the State Department. Now

576
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:01.880
it a high school senior could look
at her resume and see that she's clearly

577
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:08.760
Russian intelligence. I mean, she
had been in the Russian communications, various

578
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:15.639
state communications for years, and then
she transforms herself for a few months into

579
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.400
a business person that's supposedly over here
on business. Well, it's just nonsense.

580
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:25.000
But if Hillary won, she would
have been in our government. Igor

581
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:30.880
Danchenko was advising our government. Fiona
Hill was very close to him, and

582
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:37.559
she's in our government. So you
start to wonder what a job we do

583
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:44.000
in terms of vetting intelligence. Look
at Eric swalwell, how many and then

584
00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:49.840
Dianne Feinstein's chauffeur for years, well, and how about Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

585
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:53.000
I'm here in Florida, and what
she got away with, you know,

586
00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:00.079
when she was head of the DNC, and she had several operatives, I

587
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.840
mean even one of them, I
mean did kind of like Hunter Biden.

588
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.719
He left his laptop at the airport
or somewhere where it was open, and

589
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:12.320
and here's it had all this information
on the Democratic Party. And of course,

590
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.599
uh, you know, Michealtz was
throwing a royal fit because because of

591
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:22.159
the information that was on that laptop. Well was he uh And I hadn't

592
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:24.760
heard that was he of any kind
of a foreign agent? Oh yeah,

593
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:28.079
Oh see, I didn't know that. And we were paying we were paying

594
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:30.920
him, we were paying him many
six figure amounts of money. And of

595
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:35.719
course he had he brought in his
relatives, you know, so they were

596
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:38.239
all part and parcel of this whole. The isms, really, it's too

597
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.800
bad, and they're just they're so
silly. Uh. And you don't find

598
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:47.000
that as much on the conservative side
of things. Uh and uh. And

599
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:52.599
yet the problem gets back to the
messaging. The people who vote don't understand

600
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.840
a lot of these things you and
I are talking about. And that's what's

601
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:02.360
that's what's very frustrating. Because I'm
a believer that the system roughly works,

602
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:07.639
but you have to have information out
there. It goes back. It goes

603
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.239
back to what you're saying. Our
first amendments are our constitution, a free

604
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.840
and fair press that is supposed to
hold the government accountable. John, we

605
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:17.960
got about forty five seconds left.
I'm going to let you wrap up and

606
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.519
summarize everything and bring us home here
if you would please. Sure well.

607
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:30.760
I think the summary bill is that
this latest prosecution by Fanny Willis is really

608
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.599
a big bunch of nothing. Right
now. I'm not saying people won't eventually

609
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.880
get convicted in the full in Folk
County, but the plea deals mean nothing.

610
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:45.000
And this is really this is really
the little Putians going all over Trump.

611
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:50.079
And it's just a shame because you
talk about enemies of democracy, they're

612
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:54.159
trying to interfere with the democratic processing
somebody they don't like. I don't have

613
00:49:54.239 --> 00:50:00.039
any problem with the fact that people
don't like Trump. I understand from a

614
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:04.840
personal point of view and from a
taste point of view, they don't may

615
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:09.119
not like to Trump. I understand
that all the fancy ladies that are friends

616
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:13.159
of my wife don't like Trump,
or most of them don't like him because

617
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:20.199
he's kind of a vulgar guy.
But does he deserve prosecutions in four locations

618
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:22.960
and civil suit to drive him out
of business. Come on, it's just

619
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:28.199
too much. And really, you
talk about something being anti democratic. The

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00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.719
Washington Post says it best. But
of course full of irony. Democracy dies

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00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:37.480
in darkness, they proclaim on their
masthead every day. And that's what's happening

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00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:39.840
now, Bill, Yeah, without
a doubt. John O'Connor the author of

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00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:45.039
Postgate, How the Washington Post betrayed
Deep Throat, covered up Watergate, and

624
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:52.760
began today's partisan advocacy journalism. He's
the host of the Mysteries of Watergate podcast.

625
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:57.559
He served as an assistant US attorney
in Northern California, representing the United

626
00:50:57.559 --> 00:51:00.840
States in both criminal and civil cases. John O'Connor, thank you so much

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00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:04.199
for being with us. Be blessed. Thank you, sir. Good to

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00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:07.719
be with you, Bill, always
always a pleasure. Our thanks to Jonathan

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00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:14.239
O'Connor. John O'Connor for being on
the show today, and thank you for

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00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:17.239
joining us and being a part of
this mighty movement to return to God and

631
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:21.360
to save of our country. That's
a wrap for us. May God bless

632
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:22.960
you and keep you, and make
his face shine upon you, and he

633
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.199
be great May He be gracious unto
you and give you his peace. Thank

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00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.599
you so much for being with us, Take care, God bless