Imagine the God of Heaven

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W FOURCY Radio. Well, welcome. This is Bill Martinez and we are

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live. You know, over the
years, there has been much talk and

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theories and conversations about near death experiences. Maybe you've had somebody in your family

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experience in ND and you know this
has been going on. Science has been

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debating and doctors have been debating whether
it's real or imagined. Well, John

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Burke joins us now. He's a
near death experience expert, New York Times

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bestselling author, and he is unveiling
evidence of God's reality and relentless love.

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Millions of people across six continents have
reported a personal near death experience. So

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if you've experienced, guess what You're
not by yourself. Many people across,

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as John has written, across the
world has experienced NDEs. Well, do

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these accounts prove the existence of a
loving God? You might ask, Well,

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never in history until now have so
many people around the world been able

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to share their experiences of being brought
back from clinical death. Modern medical resuscitation,

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digital communication have revealed a gold mine
of intriguing near death experiences, and

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over the course of last three decades, John Burke has studied the command the

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commonalities of more than one thousand NDEs
from around the globe. Welcome John Burke,

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John, welcome, Good to have
you with us. Well, thanks

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for having me on the show.
Bill appreciate it. Well, I know

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this is something that has been of
interest for you for you know, at

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least three decades. Anyway, what
drew you to this topic of NDEs to

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begin with? Yeah, it's kind
of ironic because I was an agnostic.

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I was a skeptic. I didn't
believe in God. I thought Jesus was

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a legend. But my dad was
dying of cancer. And I was an

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engineer by training. I worked as
an engineer, so I have a very

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analytical mind and I'm like I'm always
asking, well, how do you know?

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And blind faith just didn't work for
me. I need I needed some

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evidence, right, And I want
you, John, I want you to

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know this, like interrupted this people
with your mindset is so important to the

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to the narrative and the conversation because
we need people like you who keep asking

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those questions of why, because you
know, we all end up at the

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end of the day coming to a
similar conclusion. And you do it your

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way and I do it my way. But I love people who are wired

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like you that bring this, bring
this to the light. Well, thank

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you. Sometimes it's it's difficult because
you know, like like even in this

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case, you know, I stumbled
upon these when my dad was dying of

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cancer and someone gave them the very
first research. This is decades ago,

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and I read it in one night
and I said, oh, my gosh,

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well maybe this is actual scientific medical
evidence that there's something to this.

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So it just opened my mind and
I started to explore. And you know,

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over the last thirty five years,
I've studied over a thousand of them,

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as you indicated, And I went
from a career and ineering to becoming

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a pastor, and I started a
church for skeptics because I wanted, you

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know, we say doubters welcome,
come as you are. And because just

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like I was, I believe when
people have the space to question and struggle

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and ask their hard questions, but
work through them, you do work through

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them, you're able to see that
this is not blind faith, like jumping

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off a cliff with no reason.
They are actually great reasons. There's incredible

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evidence. And so in Imagine Heaven, what I was trying to do my

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first book in twenty fifteen is show
that the commonalities of these people, what

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they not always how they interpret what
they report, but what they commonly report,

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and the overlap of that is incredibly
in line with what God's been revealing

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in the scriptures all along. And
that's what I was showing there. But

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now I'm writing about the God of
Heaven. So Imagine Heaven was was,

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yeah, talking about really the afterlife
and the expectation of that, and what

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I discovered the commonalities were. But
you know what what people said to me,

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Bill, and you know all of
the interviews and studies I've done,

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is you know, they talk about
the wonders of this life to come.

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They say things like it's more real
than this life has ever felt. And

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what I've realized is the only way
to describe it is imagine if we're living

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this three dimensional experience of life actually
on a flat black and white painting in

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the wall of your room, and
death means separation. So at death,

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imagine you're you're peeled off that flat, two dimensional world and you're brought out

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into a three dimensional world of color
that was always there. But you don't

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have a third dimension, so you
couldn't even imagine it, but you're seeing

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your two dimensional world is contained within
this bigger world. Now, imagine being

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pressed back into that flat black and
white painting and having to describe experiencing three

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dimensions of color in two dimensional black
and white terms. And that's what I

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believe these people are are having to
do. They're describing a reality that is

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in dimensions beyond ours, which again
shouldn't surprise us. Science has been telling

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us that all Also, Yeah,
well, anecdotally, you go and you

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read the scripture, whether it's Isaiah
or the Apostle, Paul or John,

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having these experiences of being able to, as you say, being peeled off

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the wall and seeing, you know, seeing the glory of God or seeing

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aspects of heaven in its totality the
way God had designed this to originally.

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But in this fallen world we're limited. But even in spite of that,

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gentle, don't you love the fact
that God still pursues us and He is

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bringing this knowledge and revelation and awareness
you know to us, you know?

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Ever so faithfully I think so,
And in fact, I believe that this

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is this is God's new global apologetic. I believe that He is showing us

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And that's what I'm trying to show
in this new book. Imagine the God

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of heaven, that this is the
God of all nations, and he's always

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been the God of all nations exactly. And he brought me stories of people

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that I've that I interviewed seventy people
I interviewed in this new book from every

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continent, every background you can imagine, and yet they are consistently experiencing the

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same God who's been revealing himself throughout
history. And I trace that I show

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how this is not necessarily the God
that they had expected. Like example is

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Santosh, who he was a manufacturing
engineer, grew up in India. Hinduism

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was allly new, and he thought, when you die, you probably just

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nothing happens, or maybe you come
back as another life form. Right,

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And then he hears Code blue.
His heart crashed and he's up above his

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body looking down at his body,
but feels alive. And then he said,

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this brilliant light comes to me,
brighter than the sun, a thousand

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times brighter. And he said it
was a divine light. I knew this

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was a superior authority I had to
obey, so that I instantly fell in

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love with this divine light. I
knew it was for me, there to

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protect me. And then as it
goes on, God, this light,

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he knows as God takes him to
this place and he describes the Holy City

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of God just like John does in
Revelation twenty one and including twelve Gates,

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and and of course, and of
course he does. He doesn't have any

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any understanding. He hasn't read the
Bible right, not at all, and

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so he's coming up with this information
that he should not know based on his

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education or experience. Absolutely, and
and when he comes back and it's a

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it's a much bigger experience where he
experiences this this almighty God who says,

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I'm going to send you back,
and he comes back saying, who was

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this God of mercy and compassion?
Because he also got a life review,

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which is a commonality, and in
his life review, he realized, you

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know, how how how much he
needed forgiveness and he thought, I'm going

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to be condemned. And yet this
God of love and mercy and tenderness who

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knew him? And he said to
him, I'm sending you back, Santosh,

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And when you go back, I
want you to love, love your

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family, and especially love your daughter. She needs you right now. Think

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about this. He didn't know God, but God knew him and his daughter,

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and he knows what every one of
us need, and he longs to

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just guide us through this life.
And this is what you start seeing.

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So Santash comes back and he's questioning, who was this God? This was

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not like the gods I learned about
growing up. And he's praying, God,

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reveal yourself to me. He's seeking
with all his heart. And two

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years later, he goes to a
church because his daughter was invited, and

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when he walks in, his daughter
was going to sing in the choir because

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she was a choral major. And
so he goes and when he walks in,

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he feels the same loving presence of
that same God. And then the

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message, he said was so speaking
to him. He went back and he

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started reading the Bible, and he
told me everything I experienced was in there.

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He said, I was blown away
exactly became a follower of Jesus.

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Now that's one I have. I
have Ibi in Tehran, who experiences the

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same almighty God who says to her, I am he who is Well,

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that's exactly what this God of light
said to Moses when he sees this light

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that won't go out, you know, this fire that bringing bush. I

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am that I am right, I
am that I am, and and and

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and the same. The same with
Roman, a guy in Rwanda who was

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a mom, a Muslim, a
mom who when he dies of blood cancer,

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his mom, out of desperation,
goes to the Christian Church and is

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asking for them to pray because none
of their gods, the goddess Baco and

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the the Muslim god, that they
were a divided family who too in Tutsi.

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It's a it's a wild story.
But she's praying to Jesus out of

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desperation and he he says, into
this hellish experience he was having comes a

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man of light. And this light, he said, was brighter than the

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sun. But I could look at
him, and he had a robe and

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a beard and a sash, and
he showed me. He held out his

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hands and he had holes in his
hands, and he said, I died

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for mankind. You were among those
I died for. Never deny it and

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tell everyone now, now here's the
thing. He comes back at his burial

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and he sits up and he sees
the grave next to him, and he's

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like, someone must have died,
and he doesn't know it's him, and

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he's in the burial box and he
knows they have so in Rwanda, they

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first cleanse the body before they put
it in the ground. And that's where

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he sits up, and everybody's running
and screaming and he can't figure out what's

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going on. And then he starts
to say to them, Jesus is here

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and he brought me back. Jesus
brought me back. Wow. And he

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since became an Anglican priest over there
and has had seven attempts on his life

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because he won't shut up about God. He won't shut up about Jesus.

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Well, how could you? How
could you shut up? I mean,

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look at the apostle Paul, right, he meets up with Jesus on the

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road to Damascus, and you couldn't
keep him quiet after that. Yes,

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And I love to point that story
out in Acts chapter nine because sometimes sometimes

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Christians get confused. They're like,
well, why would these people who don't

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don't know Jesus, why would they
see God? Why would they feel feel

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loved by God or know this?
And I remind them that God loves everybody

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so much he would die for them
exactly. He proved that. And that's

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not just Americans, that's every person
of every nation. He wants everyone to

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turn to him and accept his free
gift of being made right with him through

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the forgiveness offering through Jesus. And
I think that's an important thing to remember.

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But also, you know, Paul
was Saul in Acts chapter nine,

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and he was persecuting Christians. He
didn't believe in Jesus at all. When

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this brilliant God of light appears to
him, just like he is around the

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world, to ndaes and he asked
him, who are you, Lord?

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And he says, I'm Jesus,
who you're persecuting. Now, notice Jesus

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does not tell Paul what to do. He doesn't explain the gospel, He

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doesn't tell him what to do.
He later sends a man and Anias to

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explain it all to Paul. And
Paul had a lot to lose. He

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was a well to do Pharisee.
So he still had a free will and

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a choice. Will I choose to
yield my life and follow Jesus or not.

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And I like to point that out
because this is true of indies.

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You know this, this experience is
not eternity. They commonly say there was

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a border or a boundary I knew
I couldn't cross and still come back.

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And in fact, in the new
book Imagine the God of Heaven, Jesus

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tells some of them, you haven't
died yet, you have to go back.

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But they had clinically died, right, they had no brain waves.

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And so what we're what we're seeing
in these indies is not the full eternal

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destiny of people. They're just getting
a peak. I like to say,

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you know, I can visit Buckingham
Palace and see the place, but then

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meeen the royal family has adopted me
to move in permanently exactly, And that's

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that's what I think is going on. God is just giving testimony of his

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reality all across the globe. I
think for such a time as this,

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I was going to say why,
And it seems to be increasing in experiences,

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and my my sense is is that
you know, our final redemption really

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draws nigh here. John, I
know you know I'm not an in times

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prophet. I don't. I don't
think anybody knows the days or the times.

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But you know, in the book
Imagine the God of Heaven, I

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do point out that God has put
signs and very clear signs in actual history

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that who these people are seen around
the globe is the God Yahweh, who

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was revealing himself through the prophets and
ultimately foretold what he would do in the

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Messiah. And interestingly, he gave
a sign that I have never heard anyone

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be able to dispute. So in
Isaiah chapter eleven, in Isaiah chapter sixty

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six, God says, in those
last days, I will regather the scattered

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people of Israel from the four quarters
of the globe who had been scattered.

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I will regather them a second time. The first time they were regathered was

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in about four hundred five hundred's BC. When they were scattered to Babylon and

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then regathered. Jesus also said,
you know, when they rejected him,

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he said, you know, he
wept for them and said you're going to

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be scattered across the globe because you
rejected the time of God's coming exactly.

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So think about this. In Isaiah
sixty six, God asked the question rhetorical

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question, can a nation be born
overnight? Can a country be formed in

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a day? Yet? No,
sooner is Zion Jerusalem in birth pains than

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I bring her children to life.
Yes. And in nineteen forty eight,

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as evil was on the rise,
right evil through Nazism was trying to take

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over the world and secretly trying to
wipe out the Jewish people. And yet

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at the same time God's testimony of
and is signed to all the nations because

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he said, this will be a
sign to all the nations. And Israel

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becomes a nation state after nineteen hundred
years of having no land, no government,

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no common language. Yet somehow among
all the countries remaining a people group.

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When has that ever happened in history? And that they come back just

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as God foretold two twenty seven hundred
years ago. And he said this will

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be a signed to all the nations. And they were reborn May fourteenth,

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nineteen forty eight, overnight. Yeah, And to me, John c in

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a sense, that was the beginning
beginning. I mean, there's been lots

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of beginnings, but that is a
time, you know, you say,

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when we look at the signs and
we're students like the brothers Issachar that were

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students have studying the times, the
Berean studying the Word of God, and

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you look out for, you know, these indicators. I mean to the

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point that even when Billy Graham before
he passed, he was asked by a

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reporter, is doctor Graham, are
these the last days? And doctor Graham

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didn't hesitate, he said, these
are the last of the last days.

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And I believe that part of what
drove that for him is that just the

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point that you just made in nineteen
forty eight, Israel becomes a nation in

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one day as predicted you know,
by God. I mean, what other

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God makes these predictions and fulfills right, And as we know from the Word

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of God, about sixty six percent
of prophecy has been fulfilled one thousand percent.

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And so I pose the follow up
question to people, I say,

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what do you think the chances are
that the remaining third that God is also

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going to bet one thousand percent.
I think pretty likely. Yeah, my

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bet, My bet is on God
that he will fulfill all these promises.

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But my point is is that when
Israel became a nation again, in looking

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at it, I look at it
in terms of a prophetic clock, because

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you know, this is time the
way we mark we mark time in this

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plane. It's as if God's our
hand of his prophetic clock was set.

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And what's passing since then our minutes
and seconds as we draw closer to the

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final chapter of the Book of Revelations. Yes, and you know we don't

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know, but but we do see
signs. And you know Jesus said in

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Matthew twenty four, you know,
he lays out all these things that are

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going to happen right in the last
days, and then he says, you

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know, take a sign from the
fig tree. And the fig tree always

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represented Israel, right, and he
said, you know, when when there

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are blossoms on the fig tree,
you know that summer is near. Even

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so, this generation will not away
until all these things have been accomplished.

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Okay, So that used to really
confuse me, like, well, he

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was talking to his disciples and they
did pass away, So what was he

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talking about Unless what he meant was
when you see Israel re blossom, which

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happened in nineteen forty eight, right, that generation will not pass away until

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all these things occur. Now,
it's interesting because he also said there that

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Jerusalem will be trampled on by the
non Jewish people, you know, And

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maybe that was the start clock for
one generation. Maybe it was nineteen forty

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eight, but maybe it was nineteen
sixty seven when the unification of his Jerusalem

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came under Israeli rule for the first
time. I don't know either way.

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And then you got the whole question
of what's a generation. Is it seventy

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years or is it everyone who was
alive then, you know, which could

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be one hundred years. I don't
know, but I'll tell you Bill,

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I do. And even as I've
seen, you know, I couldn't have

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written this book imagine the God of
Heaven and told these testimonies of people literally

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that I've interviewed on every continent who
had these near death experiences testifying of the

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same God of all nations. I
couldn't have done it. Five years ago.

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Even I think it's quite interesting that
here it is. You know,

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we have we have a contemporary song
that comes out and cycles every once in

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a while, you know, from
John Lennon. Imagine there is no heaven.

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You say, imagine you know,
heaven, and now we're imagining the

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god of heaven. Uh, you
know, it's uh, you know,

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it's just interesting, you know that
you have you know that uh, that

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kind of contrast, which I think
I think is a positive thing because you

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know, you pose those questions and
who has the better answer, the one

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that says that there is no heaven
or one that says there is heaven and

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there is a god in heaven.
Well, and you know, I go

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through I go through the ten points
of argument in chapter two to talk about

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science skeptics in ndaes and I go
through ten points of evidence again my engineering

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brain. But it's convinced many skeptical
medical doctors that this is real, this

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is verifiable evidence. And I think, John, excuse me for just one

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second. Originally, as this was
happening the medical profession, they didn't know

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what to do with it, and
they're probably still a little bit confused.

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But there's so much evidence that it's
hard to deny anymore, right, Oh

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yeah, it's turning the tables.
Yeah, I mean, so I'll just

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go through a few of them.
One of the big ones that convince me

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is verifiable observations. When people die, they say they leave their bodies,

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but they still have a body,
a spiritual body. And by the way,

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I think the apostle Paul may have
had a near death experience in Acts

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chapter fourteen. In Lists, he
gets stoned to death. It says stone

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to death, dragged out of the
city and left for dead. Then he

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resuscitates and runs back into the city
to keep going. That's Paul. But

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then in second Corinthians twelve he says, fourteen years ago, whether I was

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in my body or out of my
body, I don't know, but I

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was taken up into heaven and I
heard and saw things inexpressible. Now maybe

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he was referring to that very time
when he was stoned to death, but

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he talks about how we have a
spiritual body. Our bodies are buried in

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natural body, in weakness, but
they're raised a spiritual body in power.

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That's one Corinthians fifteen. And he's
describing a lot of these things. So

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people say when they leave their body, they're up above it and they feel

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more alive than ever, but they're
able to observe their resuscitation. That's the

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other thing too, that's so uncanny
and consistent with reports, you know,

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people talking about things. I know
I interviewed. I was trying to remember,

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you know, the father's name.
He's a pastor. His son was

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four years old, had a near
death experience. Don't happen. I'm sorry,

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Todd Burbo. Yeah, Todd Burple, that's right, Todd Burple,

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and thank you. And that you
know, the son goes to heaven and

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he's talking to the grandfather and he
brings back information with the grandfather and also

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a sibling that he knew nothing about, and he's talking about the sibling.

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I mean, you know, wow, how mind blowing is that? Well?

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And and so that's one of the
ten points of evidence is you know,

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you have verifiable observations that have been
clinically studied and shown that these observations

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that multiple people are making are ninety
two percent completely accurate. Another six percent

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of their observations mostly accurate, only
two percent were inaccurate. It was one

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person and it was just a throwout. Then you've got blind people, blind

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from birth and blind when they come
back, but they can see in their

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near death experience, and they report
all the same things that cited people do.

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How do you explain that? And
then so I report in Imagine the

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God of Heaven the new book of
Debbie, who is blind, and when

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she has this near death experience,
she falls down on the floor. She

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sees her mom run in. It
was early in the morning. She sees

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her mom run in, and she's
later when she comes back able to describe

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what her mom looked like, and
that she was wearing a bathrobe that was

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a dark color, and her mom
said, yeah, I was wearing my

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black bathrobe. Then she travels,
as is common, to this exquisite place

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and is in God's presence who tells
her she still has a purpose on earth

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and she's going to have children.
She needs to go back. She'd been

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told she couldn't have children. She
does come back and does have children.

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In that experience, she also meets
her grandmother, who had died before she

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was old enough to know her.
She had never really known her, and

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she comes back and describes to her
mom what her grandmother looked like and her

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mom said, that's exactly what she
looked like, but when she was thirty,

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that's what she looked like at thirty. Right. But that's a commonality

334
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too, is that the people of
heaven are in their prime. And so

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you know, you've got verifiable observations. You've got blind people experiencing the same

336
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things. You have people you know, like children who meet their siblings who

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they didn't even know they had because
they died in a miscarriage, right,

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right, And you have and then
you have millions of people around the globe.

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And this is the thing that people
don't realize. There was just a

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study reported in by the European Academy
of Neurology, a study done across thirty

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five countries, and they found that
five point five percent of the population,

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when close to clinical death or clinically
dead, had had a near death experience.

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We're talking millions of people exactly,
and yet and I trace the commonalities,

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right, and so there are there
are about actually about forty commonalities that

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I've traced, and they occur in
overlapping experience. So, for instance,

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a commonality is a life review,
and about thirty three percent of people have

347
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a life review Another commonality is meeting
deceased relatives. About fifty seven percent of

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people say they've met their deceased relatives. Meeting God, forty eight percent meet

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this same God of light and love, who is not a force but personal

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knows thementimately. So what I point
out is if, as doctor Michael Shermer

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or other skeptics say, this is
just a this is just chemicals the brain

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trying to make the passing easier,
or as their brain is rebooting, these

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are just things that are happening in
the brain. Well, how in the

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world do you make sense of blind
people seeing those kinds of things, the

355
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very laws for observations, meeting people
they didn't know had de ceased, and

356
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then also God, why would they
Why would some people meet God and some

357
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people wouldn't. Why would some people
have life reviews and some people wouldn't.

358
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Why wouldn't they all be the same
If it's just a human brain doing what

359
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the human brain does at death?
Right? Wow? Uh? What?

360
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What? What? Stories? But
again, this, this encourages us so

361
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much. John, you know,
think about that, you know God?

362
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You know, for some people think
that God is some cosmic force that is

363
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not interested in his creation. I
mean, this would counter that whole narrative

364
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that God is very much involved and
very much cares about his creation, doesn't

365
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it. Yeah, And you know, Bill, the reason I called it

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Imagine the God of Heaven is that
the truth is, we all put God

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in a box. We're finite and
me too, you know, we all

368
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put God in a box. And
maybe it was formed by the way we

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perceived our parents or our you know, pastors, or whatever influences we had

370
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growing up. And God is greater, and you know, we got to

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blow the box open and stretch our
imagination because the way we imagine God,

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what we think about God, determines
how we live our lives, how we

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love others, how we're willing to
go through suffering, what matters most to

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us. It affects everything. And
you know, what I'm showing in Imagine

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the God of Heaven is that God
is far more mysterious and powerful and glorious

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and sot sovereignly in control and even
beautiful. That's not a word we typically

377
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use, but that's what people say. You know, blows the box out

378
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on this side. But what we
also have to realize is that God is

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far more relatable and personable and even
a fun, enjoyable person to be with,

380
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even humorous. Now for some like
that, just wait, wait,

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no, that can't be right,
that's blasphemous. But I show that.

382
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.079
No, that's actually what He's been
revealing through the scriptures. But that's actually

383
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what these testimonies of people, again
and again and again say that. You

384
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:47.000
know, in God's presence, you'll
realize that nobody gets me more, nobody

385
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is more for me. No,
you were created unique for God and by

386
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:59.559
God, and there is a unique
love and purpose God has for you that's

387
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different than every other person on the
planet. Well, and I think it

388
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goes back to what we had said
earlier, you know, when God said

389
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I am that I am. Okay, that's that is a very open,

390
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:19.000
unrestricted definition of who God is.
I mean, ever since ever since I

391
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first heard that, John, I
don't know about you, but it's like,

392
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okay, I mean, that's not
in my language. But there's something

393
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:32.279
profound and and and has this undetermined
amount of depth to it. And wait,

394
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uh the other thing is is I
uh, you know, I consider

395
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again in the Ten Commandments, I
think this is why God didn't want us

396
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:45.440
to create images, you know,
to to use our finite being to try

397
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.759
to, uh, you know,
come up with some sort of you know,

398
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.559
not even so much of an idol, but just our perception of who

399
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:59.240
God is. Right, Yeah,
because and I go into all these mysterious

400
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:04.640
and majestic stick qualities of God that
we read about in the scriptures. But

401
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:09.319
when you hear them illustrated through these
people trying to describe them when they're in

402
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:16.880
His presence, when they clinically die, it's like, wow, let me

403
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.960
give you. And another thing I
like to point out, Bill, is

404
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:27.119
that the people I'm interviewing, they
are commercial airline pilots, their spine surgeons,

405
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:32.920
they are CEOs, or there are
people from other religious backgrounds who get

406
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:39.839
persecuted. They have nothing to gain
exactly what they're saying. This one doctor

407
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:46.039
Ron Smotherman, who's a neurologist and
a psychiatrist. He actually had a guy

408
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.599
who was having a psychotic break turn
on him with a knife and stab him

409
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:54.519
thirteen times. He showed me the
scar in this side of his neck and

410
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.759
out that side. You shouldn't have
lived. Oh wow, he said.

411
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:06.519
Time stopped in the middle of that, and this brilliant light appears to him.

412
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.000
He said, God appeared to me
as a light brighter than the sun,

413
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:15.360
he said, And imagine standing five
feet from the source of a nuclear

414
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:21.039
explosion. He said, That's what
it was like. The light was just

415
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.320
roiling with energy, he said.
But what it was roiling with even more

416
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:29.840
was love. And then he choked
up. He's like, I can't talk

417
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:34.320
about it without just being overwhelmed.
And then he said. These nine qualities

418
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:39.119
imprinted themselves on him immediately. The
infinite love of God, which he said,

419
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.320
summarizes all other qualities, he said, but infinite knowledge, he said.

420
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.199
I had the impression of a universe
full of books, and God had

421
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.559
written them all. And he said
the power was indisputable, it was like

422
00:34:54.039 --> 00:35:00.480
and his authority was another quality.
He said. I instantly felt like anything

423
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.840
he asked me to do, I
would gladly do because he would be right.

424
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.159
He said. Kindness, he said, Think of the kindest person you've

425
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:15.360
ever imagined, and then multiply it
by a thousand times. And then he

426
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:22.000
said humor. You wouldn't expect God
to show up with the characteristic of humor,

427
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.480
and and and yet he said that
was part of his being. And

428
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.480
we something you know, we sometimes
think, well, no God doesn't laugh.

429
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:36.599
God's not but we we forget every
good thing, everything we've ever enjoyed.

430
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:40.719
Where do we think it came from? Exactly that ability. I could

431
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.559
see God showing up with you know, Gracchio, Marx you know knows and

432
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.679
you know just well and he and
he says joy, He said, the

433
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.079
joy of God. And again he
said, it'll make you happy for a

434
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:59.159
lifetime. He said, it put
me into ecstasy. And many of them

435
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:01.760
said these kinds of things that,
you know, quite honestly made me go

436
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.400
like, oh my gosh, like
we're so afraid that if I follow God

437
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:09.559
or I really seek God in this
life, I'm going to be missing out

438
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:15.320
somehow. You got it backwards,
you got it upside down right exactly.

439
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.400
And so these qualities, Yeah,
we go into all these mysterious qualities that

440
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.599
in you know, the scriptures talk
about them, but then when you see

441
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:30.800
them illustrated, it just makes you
go, oh my gosh, like this

442
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:37.000
being is incredible. Yeah, exactly. Well, John, it seems that

443
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.199
that you know, in these stories
and interviews of these people where you know,

444
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:44.800
as you point out, you know, these people aren't talking to one

445
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:47.840
another, these aren't family members,
These are people over six different continents,

446
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:52.760
in different lifestyles and that sort of
thing. And it wasn't like they all

447
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.880
got together in a room and compared
notes and said, Okay, here's the

448
00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:00.400
story we're going to come up with. But you find that these consistent words

449
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:06.519
and descriptions as much as they could
describe in their own humanness, you know,

450
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:09.440
this side of this side of heaven, right, yeah, And I

451
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:12.760
like to point that out. You
know, in a court of law,

452
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:20.480
we look for eyewitness testimony. But
if you have ten eyewitnesses to something that

453
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:25.039
happened and they all say exactly the
same thing, you have collusion. They

454
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:30.039
talked bad testimony. But if you
have people who each are saying from a

455
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:37.039
unique perspective things that overlap but don't
overlap perfectly, that's the strongest testimony.

456
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:44.440
And that's what we have with within
these John. What kind of impact have

457
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:49.639
these two books and this discovery that
you've gone through. I've got to imagine.

458
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:51.679
I mean, here you are,
you know, you talk about being

459
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.079
agnostic, and you know you come
to Jesus and here you know through your

460
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:01.840
study and the way God has wired
you with your engineering skill set, and

461
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:08.159
you know, and God's just lovingly
taking you through this journey to expand your

462
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:15.320
your knowledge and and you know,
conviction of who he is. You know,

463
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:19.159
I gotta I gotta imagine the impact
I should say, I can only

464
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.679
imagine the impact that this, this
must have had on you personally. Well,

465
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:28.719
I mean, Bill, It's why
I've devoted my life to sharing what

466
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:35.079
I found. I mean, I
left my engineering career and and I've been

467
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:39.519
and and even recently, you know, I founded a church twenty five years

468
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:46.119
ago for skeptics, and we've seen
thousands and thousands of people who have found

469
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:52.320
faith as a result. But I
recently passed the baton to to Carlos Ortiz,

470
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:58.360
who's now leading it, because I
believe that God wants me to focus

471
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:05.800
on sharing this through the global communication
that's now available, because I think He

472
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:07.639
wants people everywhere to know this.
You know, I was, I was

473
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:13.840
in India earlier this year and we
were out visiting these villages. It was

474
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:19.679
near a place we built a hospital
there and this is this is a rural

475
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.400
place, a rice farmers. They
you know, they work from seven days

476
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:29.079
a week in the rice fields.
Eighty percent illiterate, but built eighty percent

477
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:37.000
had a smartphone now think about that
God's testimony can go all over the world

478
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:42.519
right now, and that's what I
feel like, you know, So how

479
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.840
has it changed me? Well,
in every way imaginable, you know,

480
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:53.000
Like I just I can't see any
greater cause than to live for the one

481
00:39:53.079 --> 00:40:00.519
who loves me so much and has
such amazing things in store and and you

482
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.679
know, and at the same time, I know he wants every single person

483
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:09.440
to know how much he loves them
and how he would do anything for them

484
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:14.000
to turn to him. And and
honestly, that's all it takes. You

485
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:17.840
know, He's done everything that's needed. And I talk about that and imagine

486
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.400
the God of heaven, that God
is a God of justice. You know,

487
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.800
it's interesting. Santosh said that setting
God's presence, he said, God

488
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:31.480
is holy, he is, we
are not He is, and he's just

489
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.199
you know, he said, he
showed me things that I had done wrong

490
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:40.559
that I'd forgotten about, but he
hadn't forgotten. And what he realized is

491
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:46.840
that his justice that can't just wink
at our sins and our wrongdoings and all

492
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:51.639
our you know, all the things
that that we do in rebellion against God,

493
00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:54.199
My will be done kind of stuff
right right, exactly, he can't

494
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:59.639
ignore. But at the same time
he's he has the heart of a of

495
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:04.519
a parent toward every one of his
kids. There's nothing he wouldn't do to

496
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.639
throw himself in front of the bus
to save us. And that's what he

497
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:12.280
did through Jesus. And he was
going to say, including putting his son

498
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.039
on the cross, right, he
did, and he did it so that

499
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:19.320
every willing heart. I like to
say, the only thing that can keep

500
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.079
us away from God is our own
stubborn pride. That's the only thing,

501
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:27.320
without a doubt. We're talking with
John Burke, a New York Times bestselling

502
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:31.639
author. His new book Imagine the
God of Heaven Near Death experiences God's revelation

503
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:37.519
and the love You've always wanted think
about that well, and John, that's

504
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:43.480
what you said time and again with
all these interviews. That is a consistent

505
00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:52.400
theme is the love of God and
how that is brought out without question absolutely.

506
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.440
I mean, that's what people come
back with from around the globe.

507
00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:01.320
God is love and he shows them
that the we treat one another is what

508
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:05.079
matters to him most. And you
know, Bill, I'll say that because

509
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.360
you know, I don't know about
you but you know, I've always been

510
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.280
like this, go get our hard
turned type a, you know, take

511
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:15.360
the world, you know, and
and all of that is good. But

512
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:21.000
one of the things that I've realized
hearing the testimonies of so many of these

513
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.960
people is is nothing new. Jesus
Moses said it. Love God, and

514
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.000
love your neighbors, yourself. Jesus
reiterated it. But they say over and

515
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:37.079
over again. When God shows them
their life review, he points out that

516
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.920
what matters most is how we treat
one another and how we use all we've

517
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:46.079
been given to love and serve God
by loving and serving our fellow human,

518
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:52.360
you know. And when you think
about that, John, it's when we're

519
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:58.239
probably closest to God when we are
loving others, because we're allowing the Father's

520
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.239
love to be manifest through and that's
what his spirit does. Right, That's

521
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:07.800
exactly right. And you know,
one of the motivations as well of writing

522
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:12.639
imagining the God of Heaven is that
God is not far off. And you

523
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.639
hear that over and over again.
He is with you, closer than your

524
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:20.360
own breath, and he's been with
you through it all, and all he

525
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:22.960
wants is for you to turn to
him and then do life with him,

526
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.480
let him lead and guide you,
because you have a purpose on this planet,

527
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.199
and as long as we're breathing,
we have a purpose. You know.

528
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:37.800
It's fascinating this this one CEO that
I interviewed, who in his clinical

529
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:43.199
death, he found himself walking with
Jesus and Jesus said to him, I'm

530
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.920
going to send you back, beloved, and he said, no, I

531
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.199
don't want to go back. Don't
make me go back, you know,

532
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:53.239
And because once they're there, they're
like, you know, as one as

533
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.440
one person put it to me,
going back into my body was like being

534
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.599
put back into the sewer compared to
what it was. Yeah, I imagine.

535
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:07.159
Huh. But the CEO says,
you know, finally, he says,

536
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.199
okay, look, if I have
to go back, then just tell

537
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:13.360
me what is my purpose? What
do you want me to do? And

538
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:17.079
Jesus said to him, no,
I'm not going to tell you your purpose,

539
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:22.119
because you'll be tempted to get out
ahead of me. Moment by moment,

540
00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:25.400
your purpose will be revealed to you
as you stay connected to me.

541
00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:30.199
Yeah, that's what Jesus said.
That's what Jesus said. Is last Night

542
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.800
on Earth. In John chapter fifteen. He said, as a as a

543
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.000
branch abides in the vine. As
it stays connected to the vine, it

544
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:43.599
bears fruit naturally. So stay connected
to me and you will bear much fruit.

545
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.400
John, what do you say to
people of faith? I mean,

546
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.480
you're you're all over the world,
You're in churches, you're sharing these experiences.

547
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:59.920
What do you say to the Christian
community that is still doubtful? Well,

548
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.400
I would say, first of all, I do not advise people to

549
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:09.159
get their view of God or even
of Heaven, of the afterlife hell to

550
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:15.039
they talk about that from near death
experiences alone, and I definitely don't encourage

551
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.239
you to just listen to one person
and believe everything they say. I don't,

552
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:30.360
So I believe though that these are
testimonies, So listen to the overlap

553
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:32.639
of what they're saying, but always
go back to what God has revealed.

554
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.960
Because what I'm trying to show as
well and imagine the God of Heaven is

555
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.800
God has been revealing things that we
can know who he is and how He's

556
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.800
revealed his will throughout history, and
we can trust that. So if it

557
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:51.280
goes against that, question it and
doubt it. But at the same time,

558
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:55.199
I think for Christians. To ignore
this is to ignore something that God

559
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:01.280
is doing in our latter days,
to say, hey, I am the

560
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:07.519
God of all nations. Genesis chapter
twelve. He raised up Abraham and Sarah

561
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:10.199
and said, I'm going to bless
you to be a blessing to alternations.

562
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.760
Revelation chapter seven. John has given
a vision of heaven, and he says,

563
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:21.239
I saw there before the throne of
God, people from every nation and

564
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:27.480
tribe and tongue and language worshiping God. That's the story of what he's doing.

565
00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:30.639
So we need to we need to
help make sense of it rather than

566
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:34.880
run away from it in fear.
Well, and the other thing, John,

567
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.079
is that you know this, This
isn't just by happenstance. You know,

568
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:45.840
you with your engineering background, can
understand that God has established everything.

569
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:52.440
What He has been bringing to my
understanding. You know, as much as

570
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:57.639
I can appreciate, is the infrastructure. How he designed everything, how it

571
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:02.800
all comes together to produce righteousness.
That is his design. That's his just

572
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:09.440
way of you know, of creation, and and here he is. He

573
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:15.000
is giving us an opportunity each time. It's always about a blessing. Right

574
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:21.480
whenever you have contact with God at
least at least my understanding. Maybe there

575
00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:23.800
might be times when you know,
people say, well I felt like God

576
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:28.480
was judging. Well yeah, but
even in judgment that can be a blessing

577
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:30.880
because it's like, Okay, you're
on the wrong track. Let's get you.

578
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:35.360
Let's get you back on the right
track here, and the Holy Spirit

579
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:39.679
is convicting you so that you will
be you'll be in alignment with God.

580
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.719
As he said to Caine, you
know, if you do right, will

581
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:49.639
it not go well for you?
Right? And right? Yeah? Absolutely?

582
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.679
And that And that's what I talk
about as well in the latter part

583
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.280
of the book is there are many
confusing things in life. I'm not going

584
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.920
to pretend you know, there are
times in my life I'm like, really,

585
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:04.440
Lord, like how do I make
sense of this? What's going on?

586
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:08.239
What are you doing? But when
you hear these people and I have

587
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:15.159
one guy I interviewed doctor macdonogh who
is a plastic surgeon. But he at

588
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:20.159
sixteen was burned in a fire where
his mother and his youngest brother died,

589
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:22.760
and he died on the way to
the hospital. Eighty percent of his body

590
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.760
was burned. Oh, but he's
there with Jesus, with his mother and

591
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:36.280
brother, and he said he saw
God's plan and he said all I could

592
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:39.440
say was, of course, it's
perfect. It's beautiful, of course,

593
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:44.480
And Jesus said to him, I'm
going to send you back. You still

594
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.880
have a purpose to fulfill and it's
not going to be easy, but we're

595
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:52.920
going to do it together. And
he talks about you know, I mean,

596
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.519
he did not have an easy life, but through even the hardships,

597
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:02.000
he ends up becoming a plastic surgeon
who through empathy can heal other burn victims.

598
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:07.159
And he says, we don't understand
all that we go through, and

599
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:12.880
he said, I too, get
the hawaiimes, you know, he said,

600
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:19.360
but we can take hope in the
reality that God's plan is working out

601
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.239
when we're following him, we're trusting
him, and it is for our good,

602
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.159
and it gives us confidence even in
the midst of the pains and the

603
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.840
difficulties and the questions and sufferings of
life. Well. He's the best selling

604
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:36.679
author New York Times type John Burke. His new book, Imagine the God

605
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.039
of Heaven, Near Death Experiences,
God's Revelation and the love You've always wanted.

606
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:45.239
Testimonies of people you know, thousands
of people, but he interviewed seventy

607
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:53.480
five they noted in this book here
that have their testimonies of near death experiences.

608
00:49:54.079 --> 00:50:00.360
And we'll tell you you cannot read
this book and hear the story worries

609
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.280
and you know, come away the
same. John. It is life changing,

610
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:09.079
isn't it. Well, I hope
so you know that that really is

611
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:16.079
the goal is to help people see
that God is greater than you've ever imagined,

612
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:21.559
and he is crazier in love with
you than you've ever imagined. And

613
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.280
the way to become our best selves
is to trust him more than we've ever

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imagined. Well, without a doubt. Well, John Burke, thank you

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so much for being with us.
God bless you. Book is available at

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all the usual places, and get
ready, get ready to imagine the God

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of Heaven in ways that maybe you
ever you never even thought possible, right

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John, Yeah, absolutely, Well, Lord bless you. John, Thank

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you so much for being with us. I appreciate it. Oh, I

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appreciate it. Thank you, Bill, You take care. Hey, Our

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thanks to John Burke being with us
the New York Times best selling author in

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00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.519
past, and our thanks to you
for sharing a part of your day and

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00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.760
hearing us out. You know,
as we say, own your own knowledge.

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You know, don't just take our
word form it or even the experiences

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00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:15.320
that John is shared. You know, do your own you know your own

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discovery, and own your own knowledge. Again, I thank you for being

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with us. May God bless you
and keep you, and may make His

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face shine upon you, May be
gracious unto you and give you peace.

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Thanks again for being with us.
God bless