Dr Michael Rubin Middle East Expert Reports on the Latest from the Israel Hamas War

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FOURCY Radio. Well, hello and
welcome. I am Bill Martinez and we

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are live. Great to have you
along with us sharing a part of your

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day. Doctor Michael Rubin is back
with us a little least expert talking about

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the latest from the Israel Hamas war. Doctor Michael Rubin is the nineteen forty

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five contributing editor, senior fellow at
the American Enterprise Institute, and former Pentagon

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official, talking about Israel in the
Middle East from the mounting international pressure,

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including from the US, for a
humanitarian pause or a ceasefire altogether. The

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objectives is what we want to look
at of all players you know from Israel

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Hamas, Iran America HESBLA, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Cutter Russia and China,

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plus what's next for Net and Yahoo
and the pas of Boss. What

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is Iran's endgame here as well?
Welcome doctor Michael Rubin. Michael, good

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to have you with us. How
are you, sir? Pretty good?

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Thank you for having me. Well
tell you, the last time you were

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here, you sent out the warning. You said that, you know,

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the United States was on a little
bit of different agenda. What Joe Biden

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was saying out of his mouth was
one thing, but yet there were conflicting

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agendas. And of course now here
we are almost a month later, and

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those conflicting agendas, even within our
own State Department are quite pronounced, aren't

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they. You're absolutely right, though, I Mean, what I'd said before

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was that the two aircraft carriers weren't
meant to deter Iran. They were meant

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to Teru Israel. And I think
subsequent events have shown that. Certainly we

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see the case where the State Department
and the Biden administration is acting in sharp

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dissonance to what they actually did before. So, for example, if you

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want to compare what's happening in Gaza
to what happened is in the fight against

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the Islamic State in Mosoul and Raka. Well, when was the call for

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the humanitarian pause against the Islamic State. And I've been to both Mosol and

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Raka. The urban warfare there was
much more severe than what we're seeing now

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inside Gaza right Well, And you
know, it's amazing how quickly Michael had

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turned and you and I kind of
hinted to this that the mainstream media would

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take the narrative and twist it around. Although there was a little bit of

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balance this week with the March for
Israel in DC, after all those marches

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across the country pro Palestinian marches.
And you know, I believe what's coming

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out, you know, through outlets
like ourselves and your voice as well,

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is that we must not forget the
difference between good and evil. Right.

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I think you're absolutely right. I
mean, in terms of the moral equivalents

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which we see, it's just been
astounding when it comes to anti Semitism,

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which was always higher than violence against
Christians, violence against Muslims, violence against

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Hindus, it's increased four hundred percent
even just since the law. Under the

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past month, it really has become
a problem and the Biden administration seems unwilling

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to condemn anti Semitism without talking about
Islamophobia. Well, and it's interesting.

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You know, we're very protective,
very protective of Muslims, and you know,

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the government's real quick to you know, talk about hate crimes. But

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look at the incidences of hate crimes
against against Jews in America. As you

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said, I think Christopher Ray said
it quite aptly. What you know they

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represent, Jews represent about four percent
of the population in America, but yet

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are subjected to as you say,
at that time was sixty percent, but

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now you know the numbers are like
a four hundred percent increase of hate crimes

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and anti sempitism. Well, and
simply put, when we're just looking at

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moral equivalency, when we're looking at
the politics of this, it's look,

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you can sympathize with the Palestinian national
cause, but it should be a no

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brainer to say, I stand against
taking civilians hostage, I stand against holding

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on pregnant women, I stand against
taking babies hostage and using them as human

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shields. The fact that on our
college campuses people cannot say that with any

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degree of moral clarity is deeply upsetting. You know, Earlier this week,

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I spoke at Boden University campus and
so many people came out of the woodwork

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and said, you know, we're
so thrilled to finally get an alternative voice

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to hear the other side with regard
to what's going on with regard to policy,

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but we're afraid to say that openly
because of the social ramifications. When

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you have a college like Boden,
where you have elite kids, it really

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seems upsetting that the administrator's administration doesn't
understand there's something seriously seriously wrong if people

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don't feel that they can speak openly
on campus in favor of certain mainstream political

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and foreign policy views. Well,
you make an excellent point here, Michael,

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because the fact is it lies at
their feet, as you know,

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the administration, as the presidents of
this university, you know what is their

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mission, but to you know,
protect you know, the integrity of the

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university, show that you can have
a place where freedom of speech takes place,

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because that's where our intellect is expanded
and enlarged. Is it not when

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we can have you know, we
can have a fair conversation and debate about

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these issues. Right, I think
you're absolutely right Bill. You know all

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this nonsense about microaggressions. First of
all, they're micro. You should learn

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how to ignore anything which makes you
uncomfortable, if it's just an opponent's argument

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something like that. But I'm much
more worried about the macroaggressions. I mean,

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the world is filled with those who
would do such an aggression as occurred

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on October seventh, when Hamas launched
the greatest program against Jews since the Holocaust.

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That's what we should be concentrating on. This notion that you know,

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speech is violence or it makes me
uncomfortable. What we're doing is, as

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others have said, coddling the American
mind in a way which isn't healthy for

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our mental development, our intellectual development, or US society at large. I

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agree one hundred percent. We're retarding
their maduration process here, Michael, throughout

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this stuff. I mean, you
know, we saw this starting to happen

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with performance trophies, and you know, then it evolves into you know,

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the point where you can't clap in
an audience that's disturbing words that you're saying.

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And you know, as you say, all these microaggressions, and we're

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so focused on those, we forget
the obvious macro ones. Right, Well,

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you're absolutely right. I mean,
just not to harp on bode In

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College in Maine too much. But
the students I went to dinner with afterwards

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said that they're not allowed to talk
about You can't call someone a teacher,

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you can't talk tea you can't talk
about teaching because that denotes a power argument

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that you can learn, but you
can't teach. And that's of nonsense.

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You need to come in and understand
as a freshman, you don't understand everything

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in the subject. There is much
for you to learn. And I still

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remember when I was studying my Islamic
history, the amount of time I would

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spend in the library, the amount
of time I would be memorizing things,

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not because I would be able to
relate them by rote memorization, but how

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can you actually understand an area without
accumulating the basic facts and history. And

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that's something with the whole generation of
school kids, university and kids are eliding.

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Yeah, And the thing is what
they're failing to see here, Michael,

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just like you said, is the
use of language. It trips you

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up. Now you're not you know, all these years you've had a certain

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paradigm in a way of understanding language. Now you go into a different environment

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and you got to use words.
It's kind of like I was sharing with

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somebody else. When I went in
the Marine Corps. You learned right away

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that there was a specific language and
a syntax that you had to use even

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to go to the bathroom. I
mean it, And I know it sounds

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kind of funny right now and looking
back at it, but it was like

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you're sitting there rehearsing constantly in your
mind. Okay, how do I say

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this? So I go to the
bathroom, that they're not going to throw

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me in a in a foot locker
and you know, punish me because I

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didn't ask in the right Marine Corps
way that I needed permission to go to

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the bathroom. Who exactly. The
fact of the matter is, when when

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it comes to what's going on in
the university campus, and what I've always

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done when I taught is I mean
all argue. And I truly believe this

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that people side tried to sidetrack arguments
with discussions over vocabulary and terminology as an

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escapement mechanism to avoid tackling the intellectual
intellectual issues at hand. So I always

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say, we can argue on the
side about the vocabulary, but don't let

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that distract you. Don't let the
trees corect you from the big picture.

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And that's what too many people are
are missing. I don't care if you

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call, for example, Terris Islamist
Jahati Salafi's or whatever term Islamic extremists is

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invotub at the time, but we
need to address the problem set as a

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whole, and that too often is
what we're not doing or allowing ourselves to

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get sidetracked. And that's where political
correctness truly does become corrosive. We see

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this is when it gets to be
a bit of an insult michae, when

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it's about well, it's about me
winning the argument and debate, not advancing

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thought, not exercising you know,
critical thought, so that as a result

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of our conversation, both of us
are all the better for that. Isn't

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that isn't that to me? That's
that's what I would hope would be the

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goal. But unfortunately, right now
we're in a society that is so combative

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that it's it's more about winning an
argument than it is about you know,

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like you said, say, advancing
advancing the cause so that we're all the

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smarter as a result of the interaction. Well, the only thing I'd pushed

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back on you all on that bill
is I agree with you, except that

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this whole notion of cancel culture is
about not having to win the argument.

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And in fact, when I'm talking
to students, would I always say is

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if you're tempted to use a label
to label your opponent. And again,

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when I was at Boden, there's
a sit in, they tried to cancel

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me. They said that what I
had written about defending Israel and criticizing Hamas

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was racist. It wasn't. And
the point I make is if you're trying

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to use a label like that,
you're trying to chill the date. You're

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trying to you're basically acknowledging that you
can't win the argument on its merits.

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And when I'm editing, and God
helped my students when I edit, if

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they're trying to win an argument using
adjectives or adverbs, I mean my mantra

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is the facts should speak for themselves. They shouldn't. You shouldn't need an

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adjective or an act to win your
case. I mean that's yeah, I

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used to refer to it as a
spirit of invalidation. You know, if

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I can invalidate my opponent, I'm
taking you off the field of play,

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right. Yeah, And that's what
they're trying to do. But you know,

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it doesn't work in the real world. And I think that a lot

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of these kids are going to be
in for a world of hurt if they

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keep getting shielded by a university that
wants to maintain an academic bubble. I'll

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go even further, Bill, As
you know, I went to Yale,

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and I went to Yale in the
nineteen nineties at the very beginning of the

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politically correct movement. Well, I
wouldn't say the only thing to blame is

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the political correctness movement. Rather,
the issue is this notion that students aren't

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adults and that they need to be
protected from their actions, that they don't

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have agency. This whole notion of
in loco parentis now at Yale University there

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is a ratio of administrators to students
of one to one. Back in my

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day, if someone wanted to organize
a an African American cultural night or a

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Native American cultural night, it was
up to the student to organize that.

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And more power to them. Right
nowadays, however, you have administrators to

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do that job. Everything is handed
to students on a silver platter. They

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don't learn how to take self initiative
or struggle do the struggle to see whether

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any of whether they can convince their
peers that what they're doing is important,

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and everyone becomes the poorer for that. Wow, Well it's uh, we

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got to grow up, Michael,
I mean, we really do. And

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we need people, you know,
these administrators. And I understand sometimes you

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know, the paradigm gets you caught
up in the bureaucracy and you you miss

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out on the mission. And somehow
there needs to be an awakening on these

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college campuses with these administrators to say, can we do better? Can we

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do better for the sake of the
kids and for the sake of you know,

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the next generation of Americans. Well, you're absolutely right and today,

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and that's something I've been thinking of
writing about. I've been looking at all

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these universities who are being criticized.
They've had teachings, they've had various speeches,

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and they always cite the fact that, you know, on our university

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campus, we believe in free speech. Look, I have no doubt you

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believe in free speech. I'm worried
about two things. One is quality of

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mind, and the second is if
you truly believe in free speech and intellectual

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discourse, then when you're having these
teachings and these panels, why aren't you

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trying to have a more balanced panel
that actually has people disagreeing with each other

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on the panel, or are you
trying to simply spoon feed and approved narrative.

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If it is the latter, then
you have a serious problem administration on

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your hand. And all those potential
donors are absolutely right not to give you

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a single red sin. Well,
and of course we saw what happened in

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the last couple of weeks here,
Michael, is that these donors are pulling

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away from these universities, these Wolke
universities, and especially that are demonstrating anti

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sem stism. They're saying they will
have nothing with it. I say good

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for them, Good for them to
do that, because this is a lesson

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that must be learned not only there, but also for these universities to take

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a look at all their revenue,
all their sources of revenue. What kind

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of unfair influence are they having on
the minds of our children? Well,

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you're absolutely right, though, and
one of the unspoken aspects of what you're

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saying when we're talking about sources of
revenue is that most of there's a direct

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correlation between the universities which have had
the most egregious examples of anti Semitism and

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those that have received large donations,
often behind the scenes, from Gulf states

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like Cutter, like Saudi Arabia,
like Turkey. We're having the same problem

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with the Middle East now that we
had with China before, and they're so

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called Confucius institutes. Exactly. The
matter is, while people say about think

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tanks like where I work, American
Enterprise suit doesn't take foreign money, but

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some think tanks do, and foreign
money is corrupting. I condemn all think

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tanks that take foreign money, period. But at the same time, the

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problem isn't the think tanks. The
problem is the universities, which are far

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more corrupted than any institution in Washington. Well, the fact of the matter

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is that once there's an accepted pattern, who can control it? Michael,

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You can't control it. In government, We've got elites captured, We've got

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elected officials who are captured, you
know, by the communist Chinese you know,

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follow the money. You know,
these these Arab nations are you know,

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they've been quite revealing in this recent
situation that has occurred in Israel.

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You know, it's kind of amazing, how kind of below the radar.

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And here we were hopeful that we
were because of the Abraham Accords, we

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were going to possibly achieve Middle East. We had four or five Arab nations

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ready to come to the peace table
and meet with Israel. And then suddenly

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here it is. I mean,
and of course you talked about earw On

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a long time ago and you said, he's not what he seems to be,

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you know, just relax am in
it. And sure enough he exposed

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himself, you know, full on
here in the past weeks, and just

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as these other Arab nations have because
they're not condemning Hamas. I think it's

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it's it's quite revealing to watch their
position. Saudi Arabia seems to be playing

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it a little cool because I think
they still want to have relationships with Israel

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and continue to move in this piece
process that they were moving cutter as we

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know, they're so compromised and two
faced. You know, it's wherever the

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wind seems to be blowing at any
one time. Iran is clear. We

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know what to expect from Iran.
They want the full demise of Israel.

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And of course America is next,
right, and you can just break it

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on down from there. You know
who is for us and who is against

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us? Right, Well, you're
absolutely right, Bill. First of all,

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top line is when you have incitement
over decades, it's impossible to remove

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it with a stroke of a pen. That doesn't mean that the Abraham Accords

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didn't move things in the positive direction. And behind the scenes, when you've

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had this Islamic summit to address the
situation in Gaza, Jordan, Morocco,

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the United Arab Emirates very much diluted
the calls of the more radical regimes like

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Turkey and Iran to break diplomatic relations
with Israel, to walk things back,

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to call a boycott for all of
those issues. And so behind the scenes

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the Abraham Accords, you know,
they're serving their purpose. At the same

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time, a lot of it is
more complicated than perhaps this black and white

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approach in the news media scenes.
What was going on that caused Hamas to

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launch this attack. Now, I'd
identify two things. First of all,

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you're going to have transition in the
Palestinian governance. And the reason is Mahmoudabas.

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What is he eighty four or eighty
five years old, He's the eighteenth

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year of his four year presidential term. He's a chainsmoker, and he hasn't

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he hasn't created a successor. So
you've got a situation there. What this

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was about was a struggle for Palestinian
leadership in which Hamas was trying to rally

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people around them so that they could
make a move on the West Bank.

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At the same time, when it
comes to the supreme leader of Iran,

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Ali Kameeni, he's eighty four years
old, he's had answer twice, he's

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partially paralyzed. Say what you will
about octogenarian Irani and Iyahtola's, but one

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thing we can agree on is they
don't have a long lifespan. Now he's

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hitted his whole life to the elimination
of the state of Israel. Is it

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possible psychologically that he wants to try
to see this come to its fruition before

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he passes? Now, I've had
this debate with Iranian studies people Bill and

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some will say, no, I
don't think that's the case, because he

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would never risk everything the Islamic Republic
has achieved all of its structures and so

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forth back home. But I'm not
so sure that's the case, because I'm

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not sure he realizes how much is
at risk. Because they've put down the

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woman Life freedom movement, he surrounded
himself with a circle of sycophancy where I

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mean it's basically just yes men all
around them, and therefore he may not

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realize how much is at risk,
which is why this is really a perfect

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storm. Michael, let me let
me interject this for just a moment and

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get your read on this. And
that is the the Bodi, you know,

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because there's some Arabs that feel like
the Madi is coming. They have

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this sense and anticipation and that maybe
this is the reason to finally go full

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blown here is that is anticipation by
doing what they're doing, that they would

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promote the return of the Mahdi.
Okay, well, first let me give

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some Islam one on one bill.
The Madi, I mean basically is much

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more of an important figure, not
just in Shia Islam, but specifically in

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twelve or Shia Islam. There's different
types of Sheism out there, but the

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kind that's in Iran, the kind
that's in Lebanon will call them twelve or

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Shiites. And the reason why they're
twelve or Shiites is the split between the

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Sunnis and Shiites occurred upon the death
of Muhammad because the question was who should

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be the successor. Those who became
the Shihites said, I mean, everyone

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agreed by the way bill that it
should be the most righteous person in the

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community. Those in the Shiites said, look, God chose Muhammad for a

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reason, therefore it makes sense to
come through his family, and so they

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picked the prophets, a cousin and
son in law Ali and then had I

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mean usually from father to son,
sometimes brother to brother, until you got

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to the twelfth Ima, who was
named the Mahdi Mohammad Almadi. Now he

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didn't die, he went into occultation, meaning he disappeared, and what theologians

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believe is at the end of time
he's going to come back with actually Jesus

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Christ at his side in order to
usher in a perfect Islamic government. Therefore,

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by definition, until the Mahdi returns, government is by nature corrupt,

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unjust, and so forth. And
this is where traditional Shites lie outside like

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in Iraq. If you've heard Iatola
Sistani, he doesn't believe in Islamic rule

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because the Madi hasn't returned. Now, what Iotola Hoomioni, who led the

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nineteen seventy nine Iran Revolution, said, is we don't need to wait for

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the return of this Messiah figure,
this Mahdi, because after all, Mohammad

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didn't separate mosque and states, so
nor should we. We can be his

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deputy. And that's why the supreme
leader in Iran isn't just the political leader.

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He considers himself the deputy of the
Messiah on earth. That's where that

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comes from. Now here's where it
gets tricky. Some Shia believe that,

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just like with Christianity and the end
of times and Armageddon and so forth,

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some Sheia believe that before the Mahdi
can return, there's going to be a

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grand war. And where the ideology
gets very dangerous is they believe that they

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can precipitate the war exactly. Now, just in summary bill in a nutshell.

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You may remember, between two thousand
and five and twenty thirteen, there

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was an Iranian president named Mahmoud ahmadin
the job, and he really freaked out

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a lot of people because his rhetoric
was so over the top, his Holocaust

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denial, all of that. Thing
what made him so special was he was

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the first Iranian president who wasn't to
cleric, he wasn't a theologian. He

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actually came from an Islamic Revolutionary Guard
Corps background, and so many people saw

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him as a window into the thinking
of the Revolutionary Guard. And when he

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started talking about hastening the return of
the Mahdi, that's when people started thinking,

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you know, this guy, he
wants nuclear weapons, he could bring

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war upon us, and this is
where things get so dangerous. Now,

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make no mistake, this is a
very much a minority view among theologians,

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but that doesn't matter. It's the
guys with the guns that matter Exactlymic Revolutionary

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guardcore are the ones who have the
guns and believe this nonsense. Wow,

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well it's the problem. It's so
important, you know, because as you

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and I talk, I think,
I think the first time you and I

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talked, we talked about, uh, you know, how much the West

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does not understand about the Middle East. And again, you know it's very

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difficult. I mean, you have
been studying this, you know, for

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how many decades and you know,
we're looking back. As my other Israeli

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friend would say, Bill, you
don't understand ancient hatred. This has going

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on for thousands of years. And
I said, you're exactly right. And

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here we get present who come into
office for four or eight years, and

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they're trying to understand, you know, thousands of years of history and nuance.

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This is like near impossible, Michael
Well, I mean, putting on

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my history cap and being a history
nerd. The one thing I would point

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out, Bill is in this case, it doesn't need necessarily need to be

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thousands of years of hatred. Although
it's a fantasy to believe that either Christians

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or Jews lived well under Islamic rule. They were minorities, they didn't have

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full rights, and so forth.
But what always gets me is in nineteen

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forty six, the Intelligence Office of
the Department of War, which is the

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predecessor of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
was charged with determining what the greatest over

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the horizon threats to American national security
would be, and what they came up

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with was two. The first was
communism, which of course was a give

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me given what was happening in Manchuria
and the Azerbaijan crisis. The second was

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Islamism. Now, mind you,
this was a year before the partition of

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Palestine, two years before the creation
of the state of Israel. So if

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the predecessor to the Defense Intelligence Agency
was determining that Islamism was going to be

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a threat to the United States in
the West, what were they basing this

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on? And what they were basing
this on was something called the Muslim Brotherhood.

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And this becomes important, Bill,
because Hamas comes from the Muslim Brotherhood.

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Regetype Aridwan and Turkey comes from the
Muslim Brotherhood. But basically what the

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Muslim Brotherhood was was it was a
reactionary movement. Muslims believe that they were

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the perfect religion, that the Jews
and the Christians had corrupted their revelation.

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But Muhammad revealed the perfect revelation.
He's the seal of the prophets. Right

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now, then you get confronted by
this fact that began when Napoleon invaded Egypt

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in seventeen ninety eight, but continued
through World War One and so forth,

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where you've got a situation, why
is it, why is it that we

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are so as Muslims if we are
the perfect religion. Those who became the

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00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:08.880
Muslim Brotherhood said, the problem is
we haven't been Muslim enough. We've been

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polluted by the West, and we
need to excize all Western influence in Egypt.

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That effectively meant killing the prime minister, killing the cabinet ministers, or

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trying to very violent movement to extricate
Western influence. Same thing that in it

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without religion, that mal tried to
do during the Cultural Revolution in China,

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or the chemra Rus tried to do
in Cambodia. That's what the Muslim Brotherhood

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is based on, and that's what
the intelligence community recognized as a problem.

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The problem isn't the grievance of occupation. The problems problem is the ideology Exactamas

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00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.359
excellent, that's great. Well,
the thing that's amazing in recounting history,

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as you say, in nineteen forty
six, if they identified then that Islamism

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00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:03.400
was the issue, how in the
heck did they think that Jews and islam

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were going to be able to cohabitate. Well, I mean, this is

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one of those issues in the past. I mean when we look at the

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aftermath of the creation of the state
of Israel, if you want to talk

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about apartheid. If you want to
talk about ethnic cleansing, just compare the

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numbers of the Jews in various Arab
countries Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt,

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00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:29.119
Lebanon, Syria, or Jews in
Iran and Turkey before the State of

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00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:32.519
Israel, or before even nineteen sixty
seven to now. I mean, in

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Lebanon you're down to five from a
population of more than one hundred thousand.

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00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.920
Algeria you're down to zero from well
over one hundred thousand. I mean,

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the fact of the matter is,
we are looking at this not with moral

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clarity. But when I say we, I mean university campuses, intellectuals with

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00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:55.359
maral inversion. And somehow it's become
vogue in American society and especially in government

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and the Biden administration in the State
Department, to believe that sacrifice of freedom,

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00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.039
sacrifice of liberalism is somehow sophisticated.
Let I mean, wake up,

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it's not. Yeah, And and
look look at what's happened, you know,

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as you say, in the process
of ethnic cleansing. What's happened,

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what's happened to you know, to
Jews around the world as a result of

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this, Well, I mean You're
absolutely right. But then again, there

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have been some shining examples which are
becoming out of this, the support in

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00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:33.160
India for Jewish community, for example, the support in some quarters of Europe.

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But you know, the Israeli should
be worried because there obviously is a

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problem with a young population. We've
already seen among progressive Democrats in the United

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00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:47.240
States a willingness to tilt with the
towards the wind rather than stand on principle.

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If you have politicians who follow the
mob rather than set the agenda,

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00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.960
then we are going to be in
big trouble in this country. And the

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00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:59.680
Israelis certainly should no longer count on
American support. You know, Michael,

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00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.599
it's in interesting because this conversation has
you know, ends up going in a

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00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.359
bit of a circle in as much
as that it all comes back to leadership,

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00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:12.200
whether we're talking about universities, whether
we're talking about governments, our own

386
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:18.119
government, and that is that,
where is the moral authority? Where is

387
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.759
the leadership in all these areas that
are so needed right now? And it

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seems that there's a clear vacancy of
said leadership. And it's not just America.

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I believe the world is crying out
for you know, for leadership right

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00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.000
now. Well, this is what
frustrated me when I saw some of the

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00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:44.119
headlines with regard to America standing alone
and it's eroding our international proceeds. I'm

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00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.960
reminded back when Mary Robinson, the
former President of Ireland, I sponsored something

393
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:55.319
called a conference against racism, Xenophobia
and Islamophobia and so forth in Durban,

394
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.720
South Africa, back in two thousand
and two, and instead of being a

395
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:03.240
conference against racism, it became an
orgy of racism, an orgy of anti

396
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:07.960
Semitism, and the United States at
the time, under George W. Bush,

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00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:11.680
refused to go. And you know
what, it actually mattered. People

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00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:17.119
care where the United States stands,
because we were standing for moral clarity,

399
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.839
and by our absence, we were
denying that conference the legitimacy people like Mary

400
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:30.119
Robinson so clearly cravedes. Fortunately,
we are confusing leadership with a willingness with

401
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.480
respect, and the United States shouldn't
sacrifice the moral respect it has for the

402
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:40.839
sake of being popular among the chattering
class in Europe who have never found a

403
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.400
genocide. They couldn't turn a blind
die Tory. Well, Michael, I

404
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.319
want to go back and focus on
what's happening in the Gaza. The IDF

405
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:57.359
is showing pictures of Hamas violating the
Geneva Accords. I mean, what is

406
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:02.200
there one hundred and sixty one hundred
and sixty one rules of the Geneva Convention,

407
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:09.480
And clearly they have violated more than
a handful, certainly involving civilians.

408
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:16.319
Now we're seeing evidence where in fact
they have been staging their operation in the

409
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:23.519
basement of one of the largest hospitals
around schools, putting civilians at risk.

410
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:30.599
And you know, I guess the
lack of outrage in the international community is

411
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:37.559
such that it's quite it's quite disturbing. But thank god for the IDF showing

412
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.039
these pictures that cannot be denied.
Well, Bill, first of all,

413
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.920
I agree with you and a lot
of people out there again in the chatter

414
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:51.119
and class misunderstand international law. The
basis of the Geneva Conventions governing war and

415
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:58.359
warfare and protections were that combatants had
certain responsibilities. For example, they needed

416
00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:02.079
to wear uniforms, they couldn't hide
among civilians and so forth. And only

417
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:06.279
if you abide it by those rules, were you've given the rights of the

418
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:10.400
Geneva conventions, and this notion that
the rights should apply universally whether or not

419
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:16.559
a group follows the rules is actually
very counterproductive because if you suffer no penalty

420
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.920
for having your headquarters underneath the hospital, or firing from schools, or using

421
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:28.279
ambulances as a mode of attack,
then what you're doing is encouraging that tactic

422
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.559
in the future. What really gets
me and the Middle East analyst Tom Gross

423
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:36.119
has pointed this out is back in
the New York Times, back in the

424
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.400
Washington Posts, back in National Public
Radio, going back to twenty fourteen,

425
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.200
all of them refer to the Hamas
tunnels and command post under the SIFA hospital.

426
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.200
So if we could accept this back
in twenty fourteen based on their own

427
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.799
reporters reporting, why are we trying
to put this down the memory hole now

428
00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:00.000
and casting doubt? I mean,
the only answer is many of these report

429
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.440
orders are partisan to Hamas, no
doubt. Well, we saw that immediately

430
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.599
because it took no time, as
we addressed earlier, I mean within a

431
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:15.119
news cycle, they had inverted the
narrative. And and this is where you

432
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:22.599
know Hamas has been very effective in
controlling the disinformation campaign. Yeah, no,

433
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.320
you're you're absolutely right. But part
of this also is that within the

434
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.920
press, I mean, my brother
used to be a journalist down in Miami,

435
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.000
I mean decades ago, and back
at the time, people would have

436
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.000
to start on the beat and do
the whole I mean the police beat or

437
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.360
whatever, who, where, with
and why, and save the analysis for

438
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:49.639
someone else. What's happened is as
a especially after Watergate, there was this

439
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.320
romantic notion about so many journalis that
so many journalists had where they wanted to

440
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:58.639
change the world. That's not their
job, and they would get credentialed from

441
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:05.199
the Columbia Journalism School or wherever,
not ever do the basic ethical work that

442
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.639
taught them the study of journalism and
simply try to set a new agenda.

443
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:15.239
Then there's this notion that in order
to report accurately, you have to be

444
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:22.159
from or of this group. If
you want to report accurately from the Gaza

445
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:27.079
Strip, don't send someone who lives
there. Send someone who's impartial, Send

446
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.360
someone who's not going to be a
member of Hamas. And this idea that

447
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:37.960
journalists, freelancers or otherwise were involved
in the raid is absolutely astounding, especially

448
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:42.559
when there's photos of some of them
carrying grenades. What is the New York

449
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:47.079
Times thinking or CNN right, absolutely, yeah, I mean you know it's

450
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.360
like, no, no big surprise. I mean, CNN member here in

451
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.360
the States they got the tip on
was it Roger Stone's arrest? Right,

452
00:35:54.559 --> 00:36:00.559
somehow, just by chance, they
happen to be there as Rogerstone was being

453
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:05.840
So it's like, as you say, this has become sadly the standard of

454
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:09.559
journalism, which is far from professional. And when it comes to Al Jazeera,

455
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:15.000
Bill, I mean back in Iraq, what American troops learned fairly early

456
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.159
is if they got a tip about
an insurgent in a building, the first

457
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.880
thing they would look out for would
be Al Jazera cameraman anywhere near that building,

458
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:27.880
because if there were Al Jazera cameramen, in all likelihood it was an

459
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.800
ambush. There was no insurgent.
There was just a big bomb, and

460
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.320
Al Jazeera is there to film the
Americans getting killed. The fact of the

461
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.559
matter is there's a complicitcy here.
I was shocked when I lived in Israel

462
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:42.360
doing a post stock at Hebrew University
back in two thousand and one, two

463
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.000
thousand and two to learn and this
was at a time of one of the

464
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.559
big terror campaigns, so a lot
of journalists flooded in. You could not

465
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:54.719
report from the Gaza Strip unless you
hired a Palestinian minder. Well, to

466
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.360
me, that means protection money and
the New York Time, CNN, any

467
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:05.360
of these cameras cruise should very much
acknowledge that they have paid a certain amount

468
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.039
of money for a fixer, because
while they can say it's to get this

469
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:12.880
interview, I mean with a nod
and a wink. I mean, it's

470
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.559
like the horse head in the bed, then you're an offer you can't refuse.

471
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:21.920
Exactly. Yeah, we know that
scenario. So here we are clearly

472
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:27.119
pictures are showing video. IDF has
captured the video of this, of this

473
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:31.079
evidence. And as you say in
twenty fourteen, because we even had reporters

474
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:36.119
here in America, I know from
Fox News even that you know, we're

475
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:40.639
able to take a bit of a
tour of these tunnels, and you know

476
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.039
it's like, what did they think
was going to happen with these tunnels?

477
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.920
You're absolutely right? And how were
they built? I mean, where did

478
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:51.840
the concrete come from, Where did
the gasoline come from, the power the

479
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.639
generators to run the ventilation system.
I mean, then again, people also

480
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:00.719
need to simply look at the statistics
from Gaza before they spat off this propaganda.

481
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.719
The life expectancy in Gaza is higher
than it is in India and Brazil,

482
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:10.320
infommortality is lower. The fact of
the matter is Gaza wasn't this open

483
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.159
air prison camp. And when people
talk about Gaza being one of the most

484
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.119
population dense places on Earth, well, I'm sorry. Tel Aviv has twice

485
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.679
the population density of the Gaza strip. And yet you're not saying boo when

486
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:30.039
Hamas starts launching rockets at Tel Aviv. And the fact of the matter is

487
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.239
there's something very very wrong. We
should never trust data from dictators and that

488
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.559
or from authoritarian mission movements, and
that's exactly what we're doing. Well,

489
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:42.760
and let's go back to your book, right, your book that you wrote

490
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.760
about, you know, interacting and
dancing with rogue regimes. I mean,

491
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.320
come on, you're absolutely right,
Bill, I mean, the fact of

492
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.000
the matter is, I mean,
what the purpose of that book was way

493
00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:59.719
back when is when I worked in
the Pentagon and when I circulated around I

494
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.000
rock in Afghanistan. What I saw
was the American military was doing after action

495
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.159
reports all the time. You go
out of patrol. The first thing you

496
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:09.239
do before you take a shower,
you get some chow is. You all

497
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:14.079
meet and determine what mistakes people made. And the idea isn't to embarrass people.

498
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:17.039
The ideas to keep everyone alive and
operate at their greatest efficiency. And

499
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:21.599
we do this at a macro level. Why do military units go to Gettysburg

500
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.480
to learn about the command decisions there
and discuss them through It's all about after

501
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:29.760
action. The State Department has never
done a single instance of an after action

502
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:36.320
report for a process of rogue regime
diplomacy. What lessons can we apply from

503
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:42.280
North Korea and our outreach there?
What lessons can we apply from from our

504
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:46.119
past Middle East peace processing? This
is why we're like Lucy holding the football

505
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:50.280
for Charlie Brown who lines up on
his back, or its Groundhog Day.

506
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.320
We keep making the mistake time and
time again. But since diplomats only serve

507
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:59.000
two years in a post, we
forget or because I honestly think this is

508
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.679
a key issue, everyone in the
State Department is very very smart, maybe

509
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:07.000
not wise, but very very smart. And if you're going to make it

510
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.519
to the top, you've got to
get lucky. You've got to be in

511
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:15.639
that area where there's a crisis.
Well, or you've got to break some

512
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.239
barrier. So you had Dennis Ross
decide, let's meet with the PLO,

513
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:24.480
something Andrew Young got fired for as
the UN ambassador during the Carter administration.

514
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:28.559
Or you had Bill Burns, who's
now the head of the CIA, say

515
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.559
let's meet with Mohamar Kadaffi. Or
you had Jake Sullivan, as a young

516
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.639
aide to Hillary Clinton, say let's
meet with the Islamic Republic of Iran.

517
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.239
Except the same offer that every area
studies experts said, they're not sincere,

518
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:45.119
they're not the right. People don't
do this, But Jake Sullivan doesn't care

519
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.679
because he became National Security advisor.
It's sacrificing national security for the sake of

520
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:55.519
personal ego, right, Well,
it is. It's tough, Michael.

521
00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:04.920
I mean again, what seems to
be is this clear moral leadership that has

522
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.000
been a tradition for America. But
it seems that for a number of decades

523
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:14.000
we find ourselves vacant of that moral
leadership, and we're all paying a price

524
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.639
for it. And then I say
all, I mean not just America,

525
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:21.920
but the world. As you pointed
out, because the world looks to America

526
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.199
for some moral clarity, does it
not? Even still, I believe,

527
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.199
even still, look, there's a
reason. Let me put it this way.

528
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.519
I believe something like the European Union
has seven percent of the world's population,

529
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:43.599
twenty five percent of the world's economy, and fifty percent of the world's

530
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:49.119
social service spending, which is why
so many refugees flee towards the European Union.

531
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.840
Then, for example, Saudi Arabia
exactly. I mean, you think

532
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.119
if you're a Syrian refugee, same
religion, same language, so forth easier

533
00:41:55.159 --> 00:42:00.280
going to Saudi Arabia. What they
come to the United States for is our

534
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.079
freedom, for our liberty. And
make no mistake, while the Europeans are

535
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:08.199
very bad at integrating the Muslim population
on a per capita basis, the Muslim

536
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:14.039
population in the United States is far
more successful than the average American. So

537
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:19.360
forget all this nonsense about Islamophobia.
The point of this is people are coming

538
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.400
for our freedom. And this notion
that the younger generation is ashamed of America,

539
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:28.159
that somehow the word America has become
a triggering word, or the American

540
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:32.719
flag is somehow symbolic of something other
than freedom and liberty. It really shows

541
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.400
the rot and the cancer in our
intellectual community, you know, without a

542
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:42.679
doubt. We've got a couple of
minutes left here, Michael, and you

543
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:47.320
know, going back to Israel Hamas, we haven't even talked about, you

544
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:52.280
know, Hezbolah. I want to
touch on that as well. But you

545
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:58.960
know, it looks like we still
have months ahead before the IDF unless something

546
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.440
really breaks through for them to clear
you know, through the tunnels and to

547
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:07.119
clear Hamas out once and for all. And you know, and the next

548
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:14.360
time we get together we'll address what
potentially is next for the Gaza. You're

549
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.360
you're absolutely right. I mean one
of the problems is, well, it

550
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:21.920
might be natural, and the Biden
administration is leaning to this of bringing in

551
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.360
the Palestinian Authority, which after all, was thrown out in a coup in

552
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:29.159
two thousand and seven by Amas.
Right. The problem is Mapo Debas is

553
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:35.880
eighty four years old, so that's
a major issue. And he's not all

554
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.599
that popular in I mean, he's
less popular. I mean, he's more

555
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.119
popular than Amas. But that's also
partly the grasses greener. On the other

556
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:46.679
side, the analogy which I would
look at Bill would be the Taithe Accords,

557
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:52.400
which in nineteen ninety two ended the
Lebanon Civil War, and what you

558
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:57.079
basically have with Saudi Arabia under the
guise of the businessmen, the Lebanese businessman

559
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:01.480
Rafi Kadiri, try to guarantee the
reconstruction the AID. One of the things

560
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:05.480
the United States is going to have
to look out and that worked, by

561
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:10.320
the way, into has been assassinated
back in two thousand and five. What

562
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:16.400
we can't allow to happen is Hamas
to survive, because that will simply be

563
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:21.639
a victory for them. At the
same time, you can't allow the people

564
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.559
with blood on their hands to have
a role in the reconstruction AID and to

565
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:36.320
profit over the October seventh Cobra exactly. Well, so how do you see

566
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:37.760
this playing out? I mean,
you know, for me, as an

567
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:46.000
outsider, I don't know that you
can even live with the Palestinian authority.

568
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:53.800
It just seems to be so all
so compromised. And can they bring back

569
00:44:53.840 --> 00:45:00.599
some semblance of order, you know, to to the Gosam Michael Well bill.

570
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.480
This is where I would throw the
racism back, the racism charge back

571
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:08.679
at so many who want to defend
Hamas and the Palestinians now, because this

572
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:15.039
notion that the Palestinians don't have agency, that they shouldn't be held accountable for

573
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:19.599
their own actions, that things just
passively happen to them, is in my

574
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.920
view racist. If you want to
respect Palestinians, you hold them accountable for

575
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.280
their actions. You don't bail them
out of their actions. And only then

576
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:36.199
will they actually turn the corner and
turn their turn their shoulder to the leadership

577
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:38.400
which has failed them so tremendously.
You know, Bill, I'm reminded of

578
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:44.159
Amwar Sadat. People think of Amwar
Sadat as a great peacemaker now won the

579
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.119
Nobel Prize. Camp David accord to
all of that, but they forget that

580
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:52.559
am War Saddad, before he decided
to go to the Kanesse to seek peace

581
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:58.079
with Israel, he tried to achieve
his victory through war and he lost badly.

582
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.599
Right, the only way the power
Stadians are going to move forward is

583
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:06.079
to lose badly, not to be
dealt out. This notion that somehow we

584
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:09.840
should give ceasefires, that the UN
Secretary generals saying, and even Joe Biden,

585
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:13.679
well, where is the ceasefire?
For the Islamic state. Would that

586
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.639
have helped the people suffering under the
Islamic state. We actually need to have

587
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:22.079
some broader perspective here and understand that
we shouldn't be repeating the mistakes of the

588
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:25.679
past. Well, Goldameyer said it
quite clearly, Michael, as you'll recall,

589
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.920
you know, if Hamash put down
their arms, there would be peace.

590
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.800
If Israel put down their arms,
Israel in essence would be annihilated.

591
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:42.119
You're you're absolutely right on that.
And but when you ask where things are

592
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.679
going, Bill has what happened with
Goldenmayer who was cut off guard in the

593
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:50.639
nineteen seventy three Young Kippur War.
She remained in command until the war was

594
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.039
over, and then she was thrown
out for her mistakes. I expect the

595
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:58.519
same thing is going to happen to
Benjamin Natanyahu. That what's important here is

596
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:02.519
if he has nothing to lose,
If his entire legacy isn't, Israel's startup

597
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.400
nation status isn't, its economy isn't. Everything he's achieved so far, But

598
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:12.000
it just comes down to October seventh. He's going to do his darnness to

599
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.800
make sure that his legacy is eliminating
Hamas once and for all. He's not

600
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:20.800
going to listen to some senile old
man in the White House. Exactly in

601
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:24.760
the northern in the northern border,
Hezbola, it's like they're chomping at the

602
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:30.400
bit. I mean, they're still
sending in missiles, the threats of one

603
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:36.199
hundred and fifty thousand missiles yet to
come. You know what's happening there.

604
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.559
Well, first of all, the
fact that Hesbela isn't sending in one hundred

605
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:43.519
and fifty thousand missiles, which they
have and by the way, which they

606
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:49.840
got under US guarantees and under UN
supervision. They weren't supposed to have this.

607
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:55.519
In two thousand and six, Condoleeza
Rice agreed to an augmented agreement.

608
00:47:55.679 --> 00:48:00.880
Regardless, it shows the failure of
State Department and promises, shows the failure

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of the United Nations. Put that
aside, right, The fact that they

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00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:08.639
haven't launched their attack is because of
Iran. If Israel were ever to strike

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00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:14.840
at Iran's nuclear program, bill the
retaliation would be through Hesbelah launching those one

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00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:20.679
hundred and fifty thousand missiles. So
if Hesbela goes ahead right now and launches

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00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:24.719
those one hundred and fifty thousand missiles. What's the drawback to Israel striking directly

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00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:29.400
at Iran? Exactly now? And
this is where Iran is very, very

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00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:34.199
frightened. And that's why for the
time being at least Hesbelah isn't going to

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00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:39.719
attack unless they see a chance of
the United States and the United Nations imposing

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00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.480
a ceasefire in Israel, then they
may figure, you know, we can

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00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:49.119
just get away with this exactly well, Michael, as always, we appreciate

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00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.920
the time. Thank you so much
for being with us that the information again

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00:48:53.639 --> 00:49:00.000
is just absolutely invaluable, and you've
become an invaluable a set to this radio

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00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:02.760
show and to our audience. Thank
you so much for being with us.

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00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:08.840
Doctor Michael Rubin, the Middle East
Expert, the nineteen forty five contributing editor,

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00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:15.360
senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and former Pentagon official. Are

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00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:19.039
thanks to doctor Michael Rubin, and
thank you for being with us sharing a

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00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.960
part of your day. For more
information and how to how to get behind

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00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:29.519
this movement to turn this nation toward
God. Check it out Bill Martinez Show

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00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:31.519
dot com. May God bless you
and keep you May make his face shine

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00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:36.320
upon you. May He be gracious
unto you and give you peace. Thank

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00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:37.239
you so much for being with us, God blessed. Take care,