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0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or implied shall be extended to W four CY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. Well, welcome. This is Bill Martinez and we are live.

0:41 We're going to be visiting with the best selling author Jerry Jenkins in just a few moments. The Chosen the book series. This is the third installment The Chosen and I Will Give You Rest Twenty one time New York best selling author Jerry Jenkins, author of The Chosen, I Will Give You rests. As I mentioned, the third installment of this novel series. He shares the biblical and historical context featured in the novels and series as an artistic understanding of Jesus and his disciples. Similar to other films or novels based on the life of Jesus and why, the continued success of the Chosen series and teasers for the upcoming season. We've got this and more to talk about, So stay with us right now and welcome Jerry Jenkins. Jerry, welcome, Michelle.

1:30 Good to have you with us. Thanks so much. Bill, great to be with you. Well, Billy, you've been on such a role and of course people have known you from your previous multiple success of the Left Behind series sold over sixty three million copies, and of course your success continues with this, the third installment of the Chosen book series. Yeah, it's been great fun. This project, of course, is is the creation of my son Dallas, and this is really all his and so I feel like I'm sort of pressing my nose up against the glass asking if I can play too. He's allowed me to do this and it's been great fun. Well, and the thing that might be unusual people say, well, wait a minute, why is Jerry giving us the third you know, the thirds based on the third season when the third season has been completed and we're getting ready to go into season four. Yeah, the novels are to really add benefit.

2:30 We don't want to just mirror what's been on the screen. When you see something in the novel that has been on the screen, it's going to be the same thing. But I'm adding even more imagination and more inner monologue and the motivations of the characters. They might even see some new characters and new dialogue. So the novels could stand alone. But they really are a great companion. And I'm getting gratifying response from readers who say that they watched the series, but some they might have slipped past them. They didn't quite understand it. They read it in the novel and they get it. Yeah, exactly well, and this is the beauty of the novel, is that well, even like the series, Jerry, I Taya, I read or watch certain episodes and going, how did I miss that? You know what I mean? Yeah, I feel the same way. And you know, I watch these things sometimes twenty times to write these novels, and I never get tired of one scene. They all moved me emotionally every time. There's something really magical about this whole series, and it's a privilege to get to work with it. Well, no doubt. In Christian circles we often talk about the anointing of a project. It could be a song, in this case a project. Certainly you experienced it immensely with the Left Behind series. No doubt that the whole Chosen series has has been anointed. This is you know, the supernatural impact, spiritual impact that it has had universally is remarkable,

4:03 isn't it. It really is. And I think when something like this happens, it reminds you how little you have to do with it. I don't want to sound falsely modest, but Dallas has the same feeling that this thing is bigger than we are, right even though it's his creation and he brings a lot to the table. You know, we want to be really careful to say we're just holding on for dear life. And as Dallas likes to say, we bring the loaves and fish, it's God who does the miracles and the multiplying, and we're seeing that happen. Yeah, exactly, and no doubt I mean the whole team, I mean the writing of these episodes, and of course you can appreciate it from your perspective as a writer.

4:49 It is just so uniquely powerful and inspirational, isn't it. And on a whole other level it seems Yeah, and that's been what makes it really easy for me. Usually when I'm writing a novel, I'm creating something out of nothing, and that can be a grueling process. And until I get the story down and have something to work with, I'm really strolling with this. I've got the you know, obviously the TV series is based on the Bible, but they're adding creative you know, they have creative license to add plausible imagination to it and add characters and add dialogue and help it come to life and say here's what we know happened, and write do that on the screen, and here's how it may have led up to that. And then I get to do the same. So I'm kind of deconstructing and writing it afterward, and the sequence is already there. We know the story, so that makes my job a lot easier. But it's it's really been challenging and fun.

5:46 Yeah, I Bet and Jared. What happens in those moments is you're going through and you're deconstructing and you're you know, putting it in novel form, and all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to new rebel. What do you do? Yeah, it's it can be overwhelming. I know this is my fiftieth year as a novelist, and so I should. You know, some of the stuff should be old hat to me, and it's not. In this case. As I say, it moves me every time, and when I see something new, I'm just grateful for it, and I want to make sure I stay out of the way and don't intrude and just let the spirit speak through me and hope that readers benefit that way too. So when that happens, do you call Dallas up and say, Dallas, this is what God showed me. What do you think?

6:34 Yeah, we do that a lot. You know, we just interact on stuff like that. One of the things that I know is not my wheelhouse, and that's script writing. He and his co writers are brilliant at that, and I love to see what they They're so creative. So I don't intrude on their meetings, but I do love to let him know what kind of angle I'm taking and see what he thinks of it. And you know, see he's always thrilled with what I do. The joke in our house is I always thought everything Dallas did was brilliant. At this time, I was right. I'm sure he kind of appreciates that that backhanded sort of compliment, right, Yeah, I you know, he he used to be known as Jerry Jenkins's son, and I'm now known as Dallas Jenkins's father, and so I and I wouldn't have it any other way. I think that's great.

7:28 Well, I think when the mantle is exchanged and passed on like that, you know, this all becomes part of your legacy and you've got you've got so much to be proud of and what Dallas has been accomplishing, and how God is moving in and through his life, and how he's blessing the entire world for that matter. Jerry, Yeah, and Diana and I get asked every day, you know how proud we must be of what Dallas is doing, And we like to say we're as proud of who he is as as what he's done. He's really become a man of God. Yeah. Well, I don't know how you can be touched by this series that God has put in his lap and not be not be changed. I mean probably, and I'm sure you could address this the Dallas that you knew before the Chosen versus the Dallas that you know now. Yeah, I've really seen him grow. And the interesting thing about this is the phenomenon of Left Behind hit me when I was in my mid forties, but believe it or not, that's been twenty eight years ago. Amazing one book came out and Dallas is now in his late forties, and we feel like it's been very enriching that it happened at this stage, these stages of our lives, because had it happened when we were in our twenties, we might have got our heads turned and thought we'd done something, we'd accomplished something. When you're in your forties, you have a different perspective of family and people and life, and you realize if God is in so and you need to just hang on for dear

9:01 life, get out of the way and let him speak through you, and let the phenomenon take care of itself. Stick to the knitting exactly. We're talking with Jerry Jenkins his book It's the third installment, novel number three, The Chosen, and I Will give you rest. The message of this third season is right there in the title, Jerry, right it is, and it's basically the main story is Simon Peter and his wife. Now we know he was married from scripture. We know he was married because his mother in law was healed by Jesus. She was sick and he healed her. And you can't be can't have a mother in law unless you're married. So we know he's married, but nobody knew her name or what their relationship was like.

9:43 And that's the genius I think of the chosen writers and how they have fleshed this out and made these real people. I can remember so often reading the New Testament and reading about the disciples, and Simon has a unique personality, and a couple of the others have you know, the sons of Thunder, James and John, but the rest, you know, they all seem like stained glass window. Characters sometimes are statues, and we picture them as old men with gray beards, marching around and speaking King James English. But with these characters that they've put on the screen, we realize these were young men, they were blue collar guys, they were regular people. They had flaws. We can identify with them, and exactly we can now picture them in our minds when we read this, and I think that's what makes this work. Yeah, it's so relatable. You're exactly right, Jerry, that and you know, in some cases where people want to hold on to the word of God in such a way that, no, that's the way it's supposed to be. It's a little bit of a stretch for them, you know, to and and I think as a result, they failed to appreciate the dynamic, you know. And the idea is that the show and you know, brings to bear because like you said, the characters are relatable.

11:05 I think it causes us to think a little bit deeper and maybe even pause on those moments that you know, the chosen has has focused on, you know, whether it was you know, little James and dealing with his issue of healing. How could he go out and talk to people about healing when he himself clearly has not been healed. Yeah, those things are so important, and I think that people are finding The people who criticize it will say, you know that I didn't see that in the Bible. But I think readers and stute viewers can. They know the difference. And when we get to the sermons or the miracles that are that are on the screen, they're exactly the way they are portrayed in the Bible. But sometimes that's only two or three verses, so we can say, look, what might have been the conversations that led up to that, what might have been the circumstances that led up to that. And as they say, if somebody's stud they know which part is that absolutely biblical and what part is creative imagination. But the key is plausibility. These writers have decided this may be the way it happened.

12:11 We're not saying it's scripture. And when we get to the truth of scripture, we render that just exactly the way you see it in the Bible, exactly well. And and you know, one of the underplayed parts of the life of Jesus is his humanity. And I think what the writers have done here has has really you know, brought that to bear to where we can relate to Jesus, uh, you know, beyond the Son of God, uh, but as as a fellow humanoid here on earth, coming down from Heaven to earth, you know, relating all that we're dealing with. And you know, as you and I talked the last time, with a sense of humor, ruh, Yeah, he has a sense of humor.

12:54 There's the camaraderie he has friends, they disappoint him, and sometimes they questioned him, and it makes him real. I mean, I think this is one of the things that the Dallas struggled with as a young man. He saw all the TV shows and films about Jesus, right, and he's a lover of Jesus. But Jesus was portrayed so ethereal and as God, but the man part was not so prevalent, and so it's hard to relate to how do you relate to somebody who's perfect. Well, we can relate to that sense of humor, and we can relate to people around him who are flawed and are just like us. Yeah. The other thing, I think it was a challenge for most of his Christians and looking at the way Jesus was depicted, even the quality or you might even say the lack of quality of the filming. I mean, this whole project is absolutely first class.

13:58 It honors odd it you know, really inspires people of faith to going, you know, to agree that this is the way. I mean, you know, you know, if the secular world can have all these production values, why can't people of faith, Why can't Christians be able to demonstrate the high quality of Hollywood. Yeah, and that was one of Dallas's real goals, and I think what's been really gratifying to him is that people who are not believers are saying, even if you don't believe this stuff, this is a good story and it's well told. And of course we don't want to stop there. We want them to be convinced. Well, I'm more likely to be convinced with good quality and with relatable, believable characters than they would be if they just saw something and went, well, it's a church basement video, you know. So it's it's been great and I think Dallas and his co writers are really at the forefront of doing that. Right. Yeah, I've always said that in the absence of mess said you better have a lot of money. This has plenty of message and it's powerful, and you know, the exponential benefits of the quality of this program is clearly seen by the response of the people who loyally follow the program. Yeah, it's become an international phenomenon. You know, we rarely mentioned the TV series Baywatch in the same sentence as the Chosen, but Baywatch is the leader in I think

15:31 it's been translated into sixty languages and even left behind. I mean, we're at thirty eight or forty different languages, but they watch is the most widely translated TV series in history, The Chosenness on its way to being translated into six hundred languages. Six hundred. Wow, Jerry, that's unbelievable, you know that many. That is huge. I mean, would you think that a series like this would literally fulfill you know, biblical prophecy that the Gospel message would go out to every ends of the earth. Yeah, I think that's very possible. And you know, when I was doing the Left Behind series with Doctor Lahay, we're looking at the prophecies, and a lot of the prophecies we were wondering, are these just symbolic because when they talk about everybody sees the two witnesses that are preaching, they get assassinated and they get resurrected, and the whole world sees this at the same time, and we're wondering, how is that possible. Well, now here we are in the twenty first century with satellite television and internet, and people do see something around the world all at the same time. And then you see the proliferation of the Chosen Words in every country of the world now and has been seen half a billion times when Scripture talks about the Gospel going to every nation, every

17:02 tongue in tribe. It's starting to happen. And of course this has been happening for decades with other similar projects, but it's just exciting to be at the stage of history and to be potentially a part of this. Jared, you have the sense of the you know, I don't want to stay necessarily immediacly, but certainly what's happened with The Chosen is that it has been rather rapid. You know, we often hear, you know, for a time such as this, there seems to be a lot about you know, God's timing in terms of how this has exploded on this and literally has exploded on the scene. Yeah, I think, you know, ironically, COVID really really contributed to the explosion of The Chosen because people were in their homes, they had nowhere to go, they had nothing to do, and here's this new TV that you can binge watch for free, and so people had time to watch it, and then they got hooked on it. And now that COVID you know, hopefully is over and we're out and about, people are still wanting to know what happens next. In the story, and so that has contributed to it. And of course what's happening in Israel right now.

18:18 Everybody's even interested now in the left behind stuff again, because prophecy seems to be being fulfilled. The scriptures tell us that Israel will be attacked from every side, and then you're to watch out for the great bear of the north and the great army from the east. Well, you know, doctor Lay believed, and I agree that that looks like Russia and China, so keep your eyes on them. Now, that doesn't mean we know the day or the hour that Jesus said he even he didn't know, to be folly for us to try to pick a day or hour, but we're certainly heading for something. And I think in God's economy of time, because to him a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day.

19:02 If he waits one more day in his mercy, that's that could be a thousand of our years. The rapture could be a thousand years away, but all the prophecies have been fulfilled, it could be today. Yeah, we need to be ready for today and preparing for maybe a thousand more years, right exactly. Well, and That's the point of all this is that, you know, preparation is key, Being mindful is key, being aware. You know, I've often told Jerry that when Israel became a nation again, when you consider God's prophetic clock, it's as if the hour hand was set at that moment, and what has been passing since have been minutes and seconds leading us to the final chapter of the Book of Revelations. And you know, the signs are there there. You know, they seem so obvious.

19:51 I mean even to the point that you know, Billy Grant before he passed, he was asked by a reporter, you know, Billy, or these are the last days? He said, oh, no, these are the last to the last days. So you know, to your point, uh, things are moving quite rapidly, and uh, you know, more and more as we see what's happening. You know, all eyes are on Israel. They're in the Middle East, and we're seeing, uh, you know, again the fulfillment of of of prophecy as uh, as Israel continues to be under you know, under siege. They haven't gotten to that point yet where they're living without walls and are feeling safe. But uh, we know that you know, that's that's the coming chapter, isn't it it is?

20:33 And uh And to see the lunacy of on some college campuses, of people supporting these people who attack and massacre and things like that, it's it's just craziness, but it's all that's also been prophesied, and so we exactly you can see it. Well, we're told there we would be in those days when good would be called evil, evil called good, you know, and that's exactly you know what's going on. We're living in that time and season. And also reminded in the Book of Hebrews. And I keep sharing this with our viewers and our listeners, Jerry, that it speaks of in the fifth chapter. I believe it's the fourteenth verse. It's as if the apostle is trying to wake up the church and say, look at you've got to grow up, because if you aren't mature, you're not going to discern the difference between good and evil. And here it is. You know this is you've got young kids who are not grown up. They're infantile, and they're responding the way infants would respond. They don't know everything. But you've got to grow up. And I think that there needs to be this sense of immediacy for all of us to grow up and mature, because you know, our time draws nigh, I believe. Yeah, And when they're interviewed and ask why they would support the opposition, they clearly have no idea what's going on? Right yeah, And it's quite the commentary on leaders, whether it's leaders of universities, leaders in homes. You know, before we go and

22:07 attack somebody else and critical of somebody else, we need to maybe pause for a moment and take inventory of as much it would count on any one of us. What are we doing? What kind of responsibility do we have in raising up the next generation? Right? Yeah? Yeah. I'm privileged to be on the board of the Colorado Christian University and we're really taking a hardstand in support of Israel, praying for Israel, and our chancellor, doctor Don Sweeten's writing op ed pieces, you know frequently just just really telling the true story of what's going on over there and how we should rally for support. How are the kids responding, Jerry when leadership comes and says you know, okay, there's boundaries here, or I'm going to tell you about this as opposed to just allowing, you know, kids to run amock and say, well, you know, I've got freedom of speech and I can do as I darn well please. Yeah, it's been really gratifying to see how students respond. You know, Colorado Christian University is decidedly pro life and conservative and pro Israel, and the kids are really rising up and taking actions or becoming activists for God. Well, this is awesome because see, I think, you know, the mainstream media is not going to report on this. And we've been saying for quite a while that what we're witnessing, or what I call bonfires of revival happening around the world. Okay, I think sometimes we can become so American centric that we think it's all about America. But you know, we hear about what's happening in these underground churches, these home churches

23:38 in China of all places, and in Muslim nations. You know, what is the truth of God is going out there. And what I see, and you've written about this before, is that when there is a rise of evil, there's also a rise of righteousness, isn't there There is? And I've been My very first book, fifty years ago, was about a young evangelist who's now not so young and he's still preaching around the world, but he does it from his home in San Antonio, Texas, Sammy Tippett. He has a room in his house where he preaches to live audiences of tens of thousands, and just recently in India, tens of thousands were listening to him here at his three o'clock in the morning or so in San Antonio, and he's preaching his heart out in the bedroom and these people are hearing it live. They've had counselors there, and people are coming to faith. It's just amazing. Well, Jerry, the Chosen and I will give you rest a book the novel here. What do you want the reader to draw from this? Well, the whole point of the Chosen series, and the point of these novels is we want people to know and love Jesus more, and so we're trying to make him as relatable as possible. We definitely don't want it to be a substitute for scripture, of a substitute for church, a substitute for fellowship with one another. We want people back into the Bible, back to their churches, back together, and that's what we're seeing, we're seeing that happened, and we hear from people all over the world who say

25:11 they've got this fresh new look at scripture and they're they're eager to read their Bibles again. You know. You and I talked, oh gosh, maybe about a half a year ago, maybe a little bit longer, because I was trying to get in contact with Dallas, because I thought that the message of the Chosen needed to be or or the opportunity was that the message of the Chosen could be, you know, mass marketed in a sense, even though in marketing terms some have said mass marketing is dead. But I still believe that it's viable only because maybe I'm honoring maybe because I've been in marketing, you know, most of my life. And the message I will give you rest was, you know, one of the messages that I thought was important because of what I saw happening, is that people are restless, they're worn out. Jerry, and the message that Jesus gave us, then that is it seems to be more appropriate today because of the nature of the culture.

26:12 I think the case the culture is looking for rest. In fact, that there was a recent survey they asked people if you had another hour a day, what would you do with that hour? You know what The number one answer was sleep? Wow, I could identify with that. And you know, the first two novels were I have called you by name and come and see, and people responded to that. Those are things that that people have said in scripture. But when they get to that third one, it says, and I will give you rest, people say it, boy, I could use that. Yeah, exactly, That's what they're longing for. Yeah, And that's that's what I was saying. My point was that, you know, as as a marketeer, and I don't know, it's just the way God's wired me. You know, you talk about what's in Dallas's wheelhouse, and the way God has wired me is that He's allowed me to look beyond the horizon to see where where is that? Where's that energy?

27:08 Where is that that wave? I grew up on the West Coast and did a little surfing, so I would watch and participate in surfing, and I knew that if you were you always wanted to be in front of the wave, right where all the energy was behind you, and you expended less energy and you enjoyed the ride. If you were just alongside the wave, try as hard as you can. You never got in front of it, and you'd wear yourself out. And if you were behind the wave, then you were just an observer, you know, because it was all happening in front of you. And so my point is is that in watching the way the culture and the way things are running, you know, around the world, whether we're talking about Israel, whether we're talking about what's going on in China, you know, Russia, just anywhere pick up place to Ukraine. There's this this movement that and this momentum that's taking place, and the opportunity for people of faith is where can we be in front of that? God says that he'll place you in that position. As I believe that he's done with the Chosen, He's placed the Chosen in that right place so that it's not the Dallas and the team have to chase after it. The momentum is there, it's more the people getting in front of this momentum and being blessed by it. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah? It does. And you know people often say, if you want to want to be productive, find out where God is working and get there exactly. And I feel like the chosen's on the front lines. Yeah, without a doubt, Jerry,

28:41 In all your writing experience, have you ever gotten to that point where you just just can't formulate an idea? You know, some would identify this writer's block. You know, I teach writers online. I've got about two thousand online writing students, and they ask me that all the time. I tell them I think writer's block is a myth, and of course they cry out because they're suffering from it. Right now. I know the feelings some days of getting up and thinking the last thing I want to do is put words on the page. But there's always something to do. If you don't feel like writing. You can research, and you can think, and you can outline in that type of thing. But no other profession can claim this malady.

29:22 It seems seems unique to writers. You can't call your boss and say I can't come in today because I have workers block. You'd be laughed out the phone or you'd be told never to come in again. So I think if people just remind themselves this is a conceit only for writers, and you know it's a job, So get your seat in that chair and do your job. Yeah, how do you go about writing a book? Wow, there's I know, that's a big that's a big question. You mentioned you do this online, and you're trying to be like, you know, because a lot of people say, you know, I know, I have a book within me. I'm working on three right now, and I just you know, it's like I go from one to another. And I've had people say, Bill, you just need to focus on one. Yeah, but my thoughts don't focus on one, you know, And so it's interesting.

30:11 So I'm curious from your approach, how do you go about writing a book? Yeah, that's that's an interesting approach that you're talking about. If you're a creative. While you're writing, you're thinking of other ideas too, and they all, you know, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. What I've trained myself to do is while i'm writing, I get another idea. I want to chase that rabbit, and something new always seems more exciting, and I say, all right, I'm going to jot that down, put it in a file. I'm going to finish what I'm doing now. And when I have a list of ideas, like most creatives do, at some point you need to just get away and prioritize those and say, get it down to which one of these do I feel the most passionate about right now? Which one will draw me back to the keyboard every day? And I'm going to finish that before I get into any of the other ones. And you know, I don't want to sound falsely modest, but I really feel I'm mono gift that I've only been given this one gift of writing. I don't sing or dance or preach. I just write.

31:14 And so I feel obligated to exercise that gift. And and that's why I do it, and and I when I'm doing it, and I'm focusing on one until I finish. Otherwise I'd never get anything done. I'd be starting ten projects at the same time. Exactly. I'm like you, it seems like you discipline is still a key, isn't it. It really is? And you know there are no shortcuts to that. You have to cut out distractions. You have to set yourself a deadline. I tell writers to learn their capacity. How many finished pages can you do it in a day without feeling pressure or over overwhelmed. Once you've decided on that, how long is your book going to be? When do you want to have it done?

31:57 And then put those number of pages on your calendar. And also this sounds counterintuitive, but schedule in procrastination days because we all procrastinate every time when you should be writing, and you don't schedule them in there and accommodate them, but keep that deadline sacred. That's the difference because I learned as a publisher. I used to run Moody Press back in the day, okay, and I learned that about only one in one hundred writers literally meet their deadline. You know, some may miss it by a few days, some by a few months, some by a few years, but only one and one hundred will literally make their deadline. So if you just do that, you separate yourself from the competition and you can succeed. Kind of amazing. I'd never heard that number before, but thank you for sharing that. Do you realize how much relief you just gave to people who are thinking about writing books going Well, you know, I'm a couple of weeks behind or what's been because you know, between the radio show and the TV show here, Jerry, you know, I deal with a lot of authors and sometimes they'll tell me, Bill, I'm on deadline. I can't. I want to do the show, but I can't. I look at Yeah, fine, you know I'm not offended. I you know, I have a problem with rescheduling because I know the project that's hand is more you know, it is more important. And uh, and we'll have that time, you know, by the grace of God, you know, to get you back on the radio show or the TV shows and where we can catch up on it. So uh, you know, so I appreciate what you're sharing with us because and even to that point that you allow for some time, you know, just

33:30 fun time. You call it procrastination time, just some time, because I think that we need islands of refreshment in the midst of a project, don't we. Yeah, And I've learned. I used to agonize over a procrastination because I was the king of it. I mean, I sharpened pencils that I haven't used since fourth grade before I'm doing something here, I'm sharpening benel to get off my back iding up the office, and you know, things like that. And uh, I used to agonize over saying, you know, I'm never going to get this done. And then I realized, when I do get back to the keyboard and keep that deadline sacred, my subconscious has been working on the book during those procrastination days, and so I think they're part of the process, and just let it happen. Let your subpincho just work on it. You'd be surprised what comes out when you get back to the keyboard. How often in the middle of the night do you wake up with an idea and you've got your your memo pad next to your bed and you're jotting down ideas. That that does happen occasionally, And I've learned to keep the keep the pad there because so often I'll, you know, I come up with an idea and in the morning I can't remember it.

34:36 And there's there's a funny story that we tell writers, and I don't know if it's apocryphal or not, but the story is that the guy kept having dreams of great ideas and then he'd wake up and couldn't remember him and so somebody told him, you know, write it down, write it down. So he put the pad there. He had this great dream, he woke up, he wrote it down. He wakes up in the morning he was I had a great idea. I can't remember what it was, but I wrote it down. He goes to his pad and he looks down and it says, write it down. Well, yeah, it's It's all the process, isn't it, Jerry. We learned. We learned by experience and what a great story. What was that like you working on the Left Behind series with doctor Lahay, Well, it was really a great privilege. And you know, I'm not a theologian or a scholar. That that was his role and he was. He would keep me on track theologically. I had the fun part. I got to write every word and make up the stories and that type of thing. But I would say, if I have a character do this or that, will that violate the prophecy or the scripture? And he would coach me and tell me. And he was a great cheerleader too.

35:47 I would send him, you know, twenty pages at a time or sixty pages at a time, and he would always read him immediately and get back to me and say, send me more. I want to find out what happens to myself. So to have somebody like that in your core and also praying for you every day when you because when you're on the front lines, you face that that persecution. You know, you get that oppression from from the enemy. They don't like when you're when you're doing something productive. And the Doctor Leah was a great prayer warrior too, so it was it was great. It's hard to believe he's been gone seven years already. I know it's our Yeah exactly, wow, special guy, but what what what a gift? What what a gift to our faith and his legacy that he's left behind and in fact that that you got to know him so well and you get to share with our audience. Uh, you know what what a what a special man of God that uh Doctor LaHaye was Uh, this is incredible. You know you mentioned something that's important here and for people to realize.

36:44 And I know that, Uh this comes up from time to time when there are meetings and and people, you know, talking about the Chosen, is that the topic comes up that we need to pray for Dallas and the team, uh, for all the artists that are involved in this series, because you know, the Chosen is something that is quite an offense to the demonic, isn't it. It's true and you know, obviously an anytime something successful, it gets critics and that can weigh on a person. Dallas has a pretty good good attitude about that. I was a little more thin skinned when we would get criticism for Left Behind. I could take it. But I didn't like people criticizing doctor Lay because I knew, you know, what a generous guy he was and what a man of God he was. I mean, so often we'd be at signings and all of a sudden he'd disappear from next to me, and I'd look up and he'd be in the corner praying with somebody. And then you get letters from critics saying that you know, he's only doing it for the money or some crazy thing like that.

37:43 But with Dallas, when he gets criticism for the Chosen, he just says, Dad, you know, I don't mind the criticism and it doesn't bother me. I just let it roll off my back. I put it on Facebook and then all the people that support us will will take on the critic for me. And he said, I can't please everybody. I just need to stick to what we're doing and stay at the task. So so that's great, But do pray for Dallas. He's his family has been attached a little bit he's got one daughter who's had some severe physical issues, and she's our precious granddaughter and so and we know that's just that's all part of the enemies attack to distract Dallas and to get away of the project too. Well, and when these attacks come on, I mean, even the critics, it's, uh, it's like good on them. At least they're paying attention, you know, right, yeah, exactly. You know, any any kind of attention is good attention for a project like this, Yeah, because the worst thing you want to do is to be you know, I think the worst thing it happened to you is that you become irrelevant and people ignore you, right, yeah, In fact, I get that when you know, I don't get recognized as much as I used to, you know, like Dallas does. He can hardly go anywhere anymore. But people recognize me.

38:55 They'll they'll apologize and they'll say, I hope you don't mind if I ask for a picture or an autograph or something. I say, I'm not offended and I'm not annoyed at all. It'll bother me when people stop asking for that. Well, part of Dallas's challenges he's so darn tall. I mean, he can't it can't enter a room without you know, people noticing him. Right. Yeah, he's kind of a force of nature. He's six or four in about two twenty eight, in great shape, and he's articulate, and so you know, people know who he is now and that's just part of the part of the process. Well, in a novel three that chosen and I will give you rest you go through the entire third series.

39:43 What is your favorite part of this, Jerry? I think, like most people, the climax of this is when when Simon Peter is trying to walk on water, he takes his eyes off Jesus. And during that whole scene, he's questioning, Jesus, you know, why are you healing other people? And that and you let our unborn baby die, and he's he's been at enmity really with Jesus, and Jesus is telling him that it's it's for his good and he'll grow through this. And and when he starts to sink and cries out and Jesus saves him, he pleads with him, don't let me go. I can identify with that, and I think any reader can identify with that. We know in our flesh we're weak, we're finite, and we don't want Jesus to let us go. That's that's the theme of this book. Well, and that's also you know where faith comes in is that we have it's a bit of a paradox because we're seeing with eyes of faith, you know, by the Holy Spirit and by God's grace, but yet we're living in this world. Yeah, I mean, I got to imagine, Jerry, that Jesus's appreciation for God's creation grew so exponentially that he must have just you know, if this is even imaginable, you know

41:15 what kind of conversation he must have with the Father, you know, because he's he's kind of like, you know, he's gone into God's creation, seeing a fallen world experienced it was sacrificed and crucified on the cross, you know, for for our freedom, you know, from death and from sin. And what stories he must relate back to the Father. And he did this, I mean, when whenever anybody wonders about the love of God through Christ, he did this while we were yet dead in our sins. Exactly, we were worthless, and he loved us anyway in spite of ourselves. And and I guess maybe in some sense, Jerry, we get a little.

42:00 So that is that even as unworthy and as bad as it may seem that we are, you know, God's spirit and his love still draws us home where we know that we can finally, finally have rest right. And that's you know, that's the beauty of grace I think. I mean, it's unfathomable, it's really truly undeserved. And when we know that, you know, and sometimes critics on the outside they say, you know, what kind of faith is that? You all think you're a bunch of dirty, rotten sinners worth nothing and only God can save you. And I say, that's exactly right. That's where that's how I feel. We've got about about seven eight minutes left here, Jerry, and if we can for just a moment, it was noted here that you've been a Christian most of your life.

42:51 I mean, kind of amazing that you would make a profession of faith at an early age. And you've got your mother to blame for that, right I do. Yeah, I love telling that story. There's interesting, some interesting aspects to it. I'm the third of four boys, and the first three of us were born within a year of each other. So we were almost like triplets. But my father and my two older brothers were at a father and something at church, and I was too young to go for kids that were six years old. So I'm home with my mother and I'm riding the back of the couch like a horse, you know. And she says, that really speaks more to the state of the furniture than her parent had. But they put me an eye level with that famous Warner Salomon painting of Jesus knocking at the door, and it was just a print. We were not a wealthy family. And I was asking my mother about that story, and I said, I, what story is that from the Bible, because I'd been to church, you know, all my life, all six years, right, And she said, well, that's not a story from the Bible, but that's symbolic. That door is the door of your heart.

44:00 And Jesus's knocking. He's not going to open the door. You have to open it to him. And she led me a revelation three twenty behold I stayed at the door and knock him, and here's my voice and answers the door. I'll come in to him and eat with him, and he with me and so she led me to faith that night, and fifteen years later, I meet the woman who's now been my wife for fifty two years and tell her my story. We share our Salvation stories, and she said, well, that's interesting that it's a Warner Solomon painting, because my grandfather was also an artist, and he knew Warner Solomon building with him, went to the same church with him, and even consulted with him on his famous Head of Christ. That's the one that's in every church and every home's fans and funeral parlors and things like that. It's the most reproduced painting in history.

44:55 It's a half I think it's been reproduced a billion times. And so one day, you know, we're telling this story in this connection with my wife. One of our shirt sleeve relatives sees a story on PBS television about a guy in Chicago who's down on his luck and he's so he's shopping at a Salvation Army thrift store and he comes across these two pictures of Christ and Christ by Warre Solomon, and they're on sale for like one hundred and twenty dollars apiece, and he talks them down to one hundred each hits him, and then somebody says, those look like originals. You should check those out.

45:36 So he takes them to a curator at a college in Chicago, and the curator tells him, yeah, those are originals, and the oil is worth one hundred thousand dollars and the chalk is worth thirty thousand dollars. And so he's trying to sell these, but he's getting offers from museums and foundations, but he wants them to go with somebody who you know, would really really be special job. So I hear about this. So I called the guy. I said, if you sold those paintings, He said no, And so he tells me his story. Turns out he's a photographer who worked at a newspaper that I worked at when I was a teenager. He's younger than I and he came along later and his mother gave him a Warner Solomon Head of Christ when he was six years old. He was a raised Catholic.

46:21 Oh my gosh, we've got all these connections and uh. And I made him an offer on these paintings and you know, about half maybe what they're worth, and he said, no, I need, I'd need totally what they're worth you know, I've got offers that you know that much. I just want to make sure they go someplace special. And so I talked to my wife, I talked to my CPA, and they said, this is destiny, you know, yes, and so so I I have those paintings now in my home. How cool is that? It's it's you know, we we hang them in our TV room. It really affects what you watch on TV when you've got Jesus on the wall, I bet. But they're special, and they're they're they're huge. They are three by three foot by four foot paintings, you know, and you know, you know I'm going to beg you to take a picture and send me a copy of those I'll do that. Yeah, would you do that for me? Sure?

47:08 I mean that that would bless me richly. I mean, what a great story, Jerry, that you would have this. I mean, you know, even here you are negotiating with him, and he says you wanted to, you know, make sure that they ended up with somebody special. I'm surprised you didn't put the special clothes on him, like, you know, hey, I am special. Well, I knew what he meant that he wanted to I know somebody that would really treasure them, and we do. They're they're going to be special in our family forever. What What an awesome story. And of course you mentioned that you know you've been writing, you know, in your youth. I guess you started writing when you were fourteen? Right? Yeah? Yeah, I talked my way into a sports writing job before I was old enough to drive and my mother had a drive.

47:53 Say, you knew how to be special, you knew how to put the clothes you did at fourteen? Yeah, exactly, So I can say that. I mean I was making ten or twelve dollars per article back in that day, which is pretty nice for a kid fourteen years old. But oh yeah, but that means I've been a professional writer for sixty years. Wow. Well, congratulations. You're a total blessing, Jerry Jenkins, and you continue to bless us and of course through your legacy just with you know, with Dallas alone and your family. We cannot thank you enough. As we wrap things up, I'm going to let you summarize again the novel three The Chosen, and I will give you rest and how people can get their hands on it and look forward to season four, which is coming up in first quarter of twenty twenty four. Yeah, this is available anywhere books are sold.

48:50 And basically this story is the story of the challenge that Simon Peter and his wife have with losing the child, but all kinds of other ancillary stories from the people that were chosen to walk around Jesus and uh. And then season four is coming out in theaters in February, and that will be out next year as well. But always great to be with you, Roger, Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah you called me Roger, It's Bill. I know you meant, but I'm sorry. Not not a problem in a way. Did they do that before too? I was just youmb with a guy named Roger. But and your name is even on the screen, Bill, So sorry, it's not really not a problem. I'm not I'm not offended. I just so enjoyed our time together. But I wanted to make sure because I didn't want our audience to think that maybe Bill Martinez had changed his name in the middle of the conversation with Jerry Jerry, and and again with the rollout of this in theaters. Uh. Initially, this is a little bit different than than previous right, it is. They're going to roll out those uh, I think all eight episodes from from season four in theaters and then and then it'll go on the app and be live, be free for everyone at that point. So it's gonna be just a one big, humongous binge watch event then, huh, I think so. I'm not sure how they're gonna gonna space those out. It might be two a week for four weeks or something like that. Right, well, Jerry Jenkins again, Cannoth, thank you enough, be blessed. Thank you for being

50:22 with us, appreciate the time. Thank you Bill. He is the author of The Chosen and I will give you rest This is the third installment of the series, and of course we can look forward to next year being in touch with Jerry again and we'll be talking about the fourth installment. But right now, this is number number three, Jerry Jenkins, The Chosen and I will give you rest our. Thanks to Jerry Jenkins for being on the show, and thank you for sharing a part of your time with us to be a part of this movement to return to God. I'll encourage you to check out Bill Martinez show dot com for all the information. Thank you again. For being with us. May God bless you and keep you, maybe make his face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you and give you peace.

51:08 Thank you for being with us. Take care, God bless